[DeTomaso] To sleeve or not to sleeve
Don Thomas
dtpantera at gmail.com
Sun Nov 6 01:12:54 EST 2022
Dan,
If you are even considering sleeving all 8... why don't you just buy a new
modern 351C block...
To sleeve
Cost = $300 - $500/ cylinder depending on which machine shop you go to
But you can get a new block via :
https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/engines-bare-blocks/main-bolt-style/4-bolt/main-journal-type/ford-351-cleveland
$2.6K - $3.6K
8 * 500 = 4,000
8 * 300 = 2,400
So if you are considering re-sleeving all 8 … consider just buying a new
block.
Wasn't there another 351C block out there that someone just re-engineered
??
Now that would be cool.
Enjoy,
-dt
On Sat, Nov 5, 2022 at 10:38 PM Ken Green via DeTomaso <
detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
> These folks have sleeves from 1/16 to 1/8 thickness. The 1/16 would
> require a minimum amount of material removal. Does that make a
> difference?
> [1]https://www.lasleeve.com/tech/faqs
>
> Ken
>
> On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 06:17:17 PM PDT, Charles Engles
> <cengles at cox.net> wrote:
> Dear Dan,
> Hmmm. Yes, the experts can be wrong.
> However, regarding the shop in business for forty years
> that says they can sleeve all eight and it will be fine, stop for a
> minute and ask yourself: "If that is true, then why do people fret
> trying to find a good solid Cleveland block? Why do people go to the
> effort to get them sonic checked for wall thickness? WHY do they do
> that, IF the simple answer is to take any old 351C and simply sleeve
> all eight cylinders???? Possibly, just possibly, because while it
> can be done, the durability and longevity are dubious and poor??
> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dan [mailto:[2]dan at excaliburre.com]
> Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2022 4:40 PM
> To: 'Charles Engles'
> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] To sleeve or not to sleeve
> Yeah, I was hoping someone had been down this path before.
> After so many screw-ups at supposedly top notch engine shops I don't
> know who to trust in that industry either.
> The shop which has the engine now has been in business 40 years and
> says they can sleeve all eight and it will be fine. But I'm not "sold".
> Probably on SBC or GM big block but Cleveland's have such thin walls.
> Dan
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charles Engles <[3]cengles at cox.net>
> Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2022 12:15 PM
> To: 'Dan Courtney' <[4]dan at excaliburre.com>; 'MICHAEL DREW'
> <[5]mikeldrew at aol.com>
> Cc: [6]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] To sleeve or not to sleeve
> Dear Dan,
> The answers to the question are: 1) seek out a
> reputable and reliable machinist and engine builder with actual
> Cleveland experience and follow his recommendations; or 2) seek out
> amateur, non-machinist, hear-say opinions and sort out the truth from
> the (dis?) information.
> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:[7]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
> Behalf Of Dan Courtney
> Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2022 10:57 AM
> To: MICHAEL DREW
> Cc: [8]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] To sleeve or not to sleeve
> Then the question becomes:Is it better to have a .030 block with one or
> two non adjacent sleeves or a fully sleeved block at original bore?I've
> been told you get heat transfer between cylinders on a Cleveland at or
> over .030.And we all know there's already too much heat in a Pantera
> engine. DanSent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
> -------- Original message --------From: MICHAEL DREW
> <[9]mikeldrew at aol.com> Date: 11/4/22 8:14 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Dan
> <[10]dan at excaliburre.com> Cc: [11]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] To sleeve or not to sleeve Dan,Sleeving all
> eight cylinders is like putting eight plugs in a flat tire with one
> hole in it!If you have a block that needs one or two sleeves, you
> install one or two sleeves. MikeSent from my iPhone> On Nov 4, 2022, at
> 18:13, Dan <[12]dan at excaliburre.com> wrote:> > i>>? I'm having handful
> of 351C blocks sonic tested.> > One is the Boss 351 that Dennis Quella
> built for "The Winged Warrior"> in the early `80's.> > I'm wondering
> if it would be advisable to sleeve all 8 cylinders to> bring it back
> to original bore.> > Another option is to sleeve just one or two holes
> and go with .030.> > > A 3^rd option is to sleeve two cylinders on an
> original bore 2 bolt> block.> > > Over the years I've received advice
> regarding sleeves from sleeving all> 8 holes makes for a stronger
> block to sleeving a Cleveland can> interfere with the water jackets.>
> > > Does anyone have an opinion on sleeving a 351C?> > > Dan> > > >
> > Dan Courtney> > La Jolla, CA> > > [1][13]Dan at excaliburre.com> >
> References> > 1. mailto:[14]Dan at excaliburre.com>
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> References
>
> 1. https://www.lasleeve.com/tech/faqs
> 2. mailto:dan at excaliburre.com
> 3. mailto:cengles at cox.net
> 4. mailto:dan at excaliburre.com
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-------------- next part --------------
Dan,
If you are even considering sleeving all 8... why don't you just buy a
new modern 351C block...
To sleeve
A
Cost = $300 - $500/ cylinder depending on which machine shop you go to
A
But you can get a new block via :
A
[1]https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/engines-bare-blocks/ma
in-bolt-style/4-bolt/main-journal-type/ford-351-cleveland
A
A
$2.6K - $3.6K
A
8 * 500 = 4,000
8 * 300 = 2,400
A
So if you are considering re-sleeving all 8 a| consider just buying a
new block.
Wasn't there another 351C block out there that someone just
re-engineeredA ??
Now that would be cool.
Enjoy,
-dt
On Sat, Nov 5, 2022 at 10:38 PM Ken Green via DeTomaso
<[2]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
A A These folks have sleeves from 1/16 to 1/8 thickness.A The 1/16
would
A A require a minimum amount of material removal.A Does that make
a
A A difference?
A A [1][3]https://www.lasleeve.com/tech/faqs
A A Ken
A A On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 06:17:17 PM PDT, Charles
Engles
A A <[4]cengles at cox.net> wrote:
A A Dear Dan,
A A A A A A A A Hmmm.A Yes, the experts can be wrong.
A A A A A A A A However, regarding the shop in business for
forty years
A A that says they can sleeve all eight and it will be fine, stop
for a
A A minute and ask yourself: "If that is true, then why do people
fret
A A trying to find a good solid Cleveland block?A Why do people go
to the
A A effort to get them sonic checked for wall thickness?A WHY do
they do
A A that, IF the simple answer is to take any old 351C and simply
sleeve
A A all eight cylinders????A A A Possibly, just possibly,
because while it
A A can be done,A the durability and longevity are dubious and
poor??
A A A A A A A A A A A Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
A A -----Original Message-----
A A From: Dan [mailto:[2][5]dan at excaliburre.com]
A A Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2022 4:40 PM
A A To: 'Charles Engles'
A A Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] To sleeve or not to sleeve
A A Yeah, I was hoping someone had been down this path before.
A A After so many screw-ups at supposedly top notch engine shops I
don't
A A know who to trust in that industry either.
A A The shop which has the engine now has been in business 40 years
and
A A says they can sleeve all eight and it will be fine. But I'm not
"sold".
A A Probably on SBC or GM big block but Cleveland's have such thin
walls.
A A Dan
A A -----Original Message-----
A A From: Charles Engles <[3][6]cengles at cox.net>
A A Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2022 12:15 PM
A A To: 'Dan Courtney' <[4][7]dan at excaliburre.com>; 'MICHAEL DREW'
A A <[5][8]mikeldrew at aol.com>
A A Cc: [6][9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
A A Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] To sleeve or not to sleeve
A A Dear Dan,
A A A A A A A A A A A The answers to the question are: 1)
seek out a
A A reputable and reliable machinist and engine builder with actual
A A Cleveland experience and follow his recommendations; or 2) seek
out
A A amateur, non-machinist, hear-say opinions and sort out the
truth from
A A the (dis?) information.
A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A Warmest
regards, Chuck Engles
A A -----Original Message-----
A A From: DeTomaso
[mailto:[7][10]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
A A Behalf Of Dan Courtney
A A Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2022 10:57 AM
A A To: MICHAEL DREW
A A Cc: [8][11]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] To sleeve or not to sleeve
A A Then the question becomes:Is it better to have a .030 block
with one or
A A two non adjacent sleeves or a fully sleeved block at original
bore?I've
A A been told you get heat transfer between cylinders on a
Cleveland at or
A A over .030.And we all know there's already too much heat in a
Pantera
A A engine. DanSent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
A A -------- Original message --------From: MICHAEL DREW
A A <[9][12]mikeldrew at aol.com> Date: 11/4/22A 8:14 PMA
(GMT-08:00) To: Dan
A A <[10][13]dan at excaliburre.com> Cc:
[11][14]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] To sleeve or not to sleeve Dan,Sleeving
all
A A eight cylinders is like putting eight plugs in a flat tire with
one
A A hole in it!If you have a block that needs one or two sleeves,
you
A A install one or two sleeves. MikeSent from my iPhone> On Nov 4,
2022, at
A A 18:13, Dan <[12][15]dan at excaliburre.com> wrote:> > i>>?A I'm
having handful
A A of 351C blocks sonic tested.> >A One is the Boss 351 that
Dennis Quella
A A built for "The Winged Warrior">A in the early `80's.> >A I'm
wondering
A A if it would be advisable to sleeve all 8 cylinders to>A bring
it back
A A to original bore.> >A Another option is to sleeve just one or
two holes
A A and go with .030.> > >A A 3^rd option is to sleeve two
cylinders on an
A A original bore 2 bolt>A block.> > >A Over the years I've
received advice
A A regarding sleeves from sleeving all>A 8 holes makes for a
stronger
A A block to sleeving a Cleveland can>A interfere with the water
jackets.>
A A > >A Does anyone have an opinion on sleeving a 351C?> > >A
Dan> > > >
A A >A Dan Courtney> >A La Jolla, CA> > >A
[1][13][16]Dan at excaliburre.com> >
A A References> >A 1. mailto:[14][17]Dan at excaliburre.com>
A A _______________________________________________> > > Detomaso
Email
A A List is not managed by POCA> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
A A Megabytes> DeTomaso mailing list>
[15][18]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
A
A [16][19]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso>
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etc.) use
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to the
A A list to forward any message posted here to all past, current,
or future
A A members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission
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