[DeTomaso] Playboy Pantera for Auction on BaT
Mike Drew
mikeldrew at aol.com
Wed Jun 22 11:41:19 EDT 2022
Larry,
When the walls are less than .030” thickness, the blocks often slice themselves open…:)
Mike
Sent from my iPad
> On Jun 22, 2022, at 04:17, Larry Weston <lplugw at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> What is a minimum acceptable cylinder wall thickness? It’s certainly more important in one axis than the other.
> It’s hard to picture how removing another .005” (about as thick as two sheets of paper) from the cylinder wall to get from .030 to .040 would render an engine block useless.
> Has anyone ever sliced open a block to see what that area really looks like?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jun 21, 2022, at 4:57 PM, Jack DeRyke via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi, Dan. Nice to see you at the recent Fun Rally in AZ, after so many
>> years. I can verify the value of sonic-testing EVERY 351-C block before
>> an overhaul. The rest of you guys, listen up-
>> One of the Nor-Cal guys had his OEM Cleveland bored 0.040"-over some
>> years ago. The fully rebuilt engine had extremely high oil use from
>> day-1 and after waiting for the engine to break-in, called me about it
>> at 1200 miles with no improvement. After a bit of back-and-forth
>> followed by engine removal and tear-down, he found the non-sonic-tested
>> block had such thin, flexible cylinder walls, the new rings were
>> skipping over bulges in the walls- hence the poor ring seal and high
>> oil use. So his OEM block was scrapped. Too bad since he had bought
>> the early Pantera new in '71....
>> Cheers- J DeRyke
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Daniel C Jones <daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com>
>> Cc: detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>> Sent: Tue, Jun 21, 2022 9:51 am
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Playboy Pantera for Auction on BaT
>>> The pictures I reviewed showed a tired red Pantera with a clearly
>> amateurish installation in the engine bay
>> I spotted several potential issues with the engine build.A Below is
>> what I posted on BaT:
>> Note the engine is no longer a Cleveland.A Rather, it's more of a
>> reverse Clevor. Clevor is slang for a Windsor block with Cleveland
>> style canted valve heads.A This engine is the reverse with Windsor
>> inline valve heads on a Cleveland block.A Requires some custom parts
>> like headers and pistons with valve notches that match the inline
>> valves, along with gaskets and fasteners that work with the odd
>> intake/head/block combination.A Notice the hack job on the Windsor
>> intake end seal to clear the oil pressure sender fitting.A Also,
>> @BaT
>> the engine did not make 498 HP and 495 ft-lbs and turn over 10000 RPM
>> on a dynamometer.A Instead, someone plugged some numbers into a
>> simulation program (Dyno2000) which output an estimate of 498 HP and
>> 495 ft-lbs.A Remember the first rule of simulation software is
>> GIGO.A
>> The fact that it wasn't spun to 10K+ RPM on the dyno is a good thing
>> as
>> the unnecessary high volume oil pump would have sucked that stock 5
>> quart pan dry, spun a rod bearing and chucked one or more of those
>> questionable CAT (not to be confused with the reputable SCAT company)
>> rods out the side of the block.A There's also a potential issue with
>> the top ring placement.A Cleveland blocks have notches for valve
>> clearance/unshrouding which limits where the top ring ring can be
>> placed.A Too high will put rings into the notches which is no
>> bueno.A
>> This also limits where the piston pin can be placed to get a
>> reasonable
>> ring pack.A The typical 4" stroke Cleveland will have a pin height
>> of
>> around 1.2" and use 6" rods.A The paperwork suggests the crank is a
>> 3.875" stroke SCAT unit.A That would be a custom crank stroke so I
>> suspect it's actually the off-the-shelf 3.85" 9000 series cast crank
>> which would match the stated 395 cubic inch displacement (3.875"
>> stroke
>> would be over 397 cubic inches).A Stroker math is simple and
>> suggests
>> that a 6.2" long rod and 3.85" stroke will have a pin height of 1.075
>> inches which is not recommended if you want the engine to last.A
>> Also,
>> I see no mention of sonic testing in the engine rebuild paperwork.A
>> Having had more than one Cleveland block fail sonic test at 0.030"
>> over
>> and another that needed a sleeve at standard bore, sonic testing is
>> highly recommended before boring 0.040" over.
>> Dan Jones
>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2022 at 10:04 AM Charles Engles
>> <[1][1]cengles at cox.net>
>> wrote:
>> Dear Mike,
>> A A A A A A A I think the recipient has aged a bit better
>> than the Pantera.
>> IIRC, I saw pictures of it and a story that while it was no longer
>> pink, it
>> was the Playboy Pink Pantera.A More astounding is that it was in
>> Oklahoma
>> and for sale several years ago.A I cannot recall the price.
>> A A A A A A A The pictures I reviewed showed a tired red
>> Pantera with a
>> clearly amateurish installation in the engine bay: nitrous lines,
>> wires,
>> hoses, remote filters, etc.A It looked like one should back away
>> slowly and
>> carefully, while shielding their eyes.A
>> A A A A A A A A In the BaT pictures, I can still see residua
>> of its previous
>> condition around the edges of some of the photos.A I am interested
>> in the
>> BaT bidding and comments on this Pantera with a salacious back
>> story.
>> A A A A A A A A A A A A A A Warmest regards, Chuck
>> Engles
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: DeTomaso
>> [mailto:[2][2]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com]
>> On Behalf
>> Of Mike & Elizabeth
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2022 9:52 AM
>> To: [3][3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Playboy Pantera for Auction on BaT
>> The pink Pantera awarded to the 1972 Playmate of the Year is for
>> sale in
>> BaT.A Now repainted in red over black and Grp IV flared.A I'm
>> sure
>> it's aged
>> better then it's recipient.
>> [4][4]https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1972-detomaso-pantera-82/
>> Mike Thomas
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>> 1. mailto:[7]cengles at cox.net
>> 2. mailto:[8]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
>> 3. mailto:[9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> 4. [10]https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1972-detomaso-pantera-82/
>> 5. mailto:[11]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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>> References
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>> 1. mailto:cengles at cox.net
>> 2. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
>> 3. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> 4. https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1972-detomaso-pantera-82/
>> 5. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> 6. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> 7. mailto:cengles at cox.net
>> 8. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
>> 9. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> 10. https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1972-detomaso-pantera-82/
>> 11. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> 12. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> 13. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> 14. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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