[DeTomaso] Tire question

Steve Lisa stevelisa at patentit.com
Mon Feb 28 23:05:03 EST 2022


I thought you were looking for race tires (Avon's).  The Hoosier R7's are
race tires and inappropriate for road driving.  But perhaps you can learn
something from the sizing.

On Mon, Feb 28, 2022, 9:02 PM Jeff Detrich <jjdetrich at gmail.com> wrote:

>    Chris, these emails are bringing to mind some things that need to be
>    said, I use 8" front tires either 245s and they require some inner
>    fender shaping.A  Mea culpa. And I agree that 225s are probably more
>    appropriate. At the time, there weren't any 225 speed rated tires
>    available.A
>
>    Jeff
>
>    On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 8:40 PM Mike Drew via DeTomaso
>    <[1]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>
>      Chris,
>      You aneeda ZR rated tires? Thatas a ridiculous assertion.
>      First of all, you are driving your car on the STREET so you want
>      street tires. Not race tires.A  Race tires come with loads of
>      compromises, chief among them being severe unsuitability for driving
>      in wet weather conditions. You live in Seattle!
>      Secondly, ZR-rated tires are certified for 2 hours of continuous
>      running at speeds above 149 mph. Do you truly believe you will be
>      driving like that?
>      ZR tires can come with either W (168 mph) or Y (168 mph) speed
>      ratings. So strictly speaking, there is no Z speed rating. ZR just
>      means afast radiala and the speed rating is either W or Y.
>      BFG radial T/A tires are only S-rated (112 mph). Does that mean they
>      will explode at 113 mph? Of course not. You can easily exceed the
>      speed rating with perfect safety, in short durations of a few
>      minutes at a time.
>      If you think you will be running for 30-40 minutes straight above
>      112 mph you may want to consider different options. However for the
>      type of use I think your car will see, if you stick to the 15-inch
>      wheels, you would probably be best served with the BFGs in
>      appropriate sizes.
>      Good luck!
>      Mike
>      Sent from my iPad
>      > On Feb 28, 2022, at 17:00, Christopher Kimball
>      <[2]chrisvkimball at msn.com> wrote:
>      >
>      > i>>?A  A Thanks for the info--I don't use my car on the track, but
>      I have been
>      >A  A known to drive it thousands of miles across the country to Fun
>      Rallys,
>      >A  A so I need tires that are Z rated since I might hypothetically
>      drive
>      >A  A rapidly.
>      >
>      >A  A Aren't Hoosiers lower-speed tires?
>      >
>      >A  A Sincerely,
>      >
>      >A  A Chris
>      >A  A
>      A __________________________________________________________________
>      >
>      >A  A From: Steve Lisa <[3]stevelisa at patentit.com>
>      >A  A Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 4:41 PM
>      >A  A To: Christopher Kimball <[4]ChrisVKimball at msn.com>
>      >A  A Cc: Jeff Detrich <[5]jjdetrich at gmail.com>; Julian Kift
>      >A  A <[6]julian_kift at hotmail.com>; Pantera Owners Club of America
>      >A  A <[7]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>      >A  A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tire question
>      >
>      >A  A I use Hoosier R7's.A  225/50 in front and 275/50 in rear.A
>      They work
>      >A  A great for racing and so far have no complaints at all and are
>      turning
>      >A  A very competitive lap times.
>      >A  A Presently, you won't be able to buy Avon's due to supply
>      issues ...at
>      >A  A least we can't.A  Roger Krause says they hard to get and he is
>      only
>      >A  A supplying his best customers.
>      >A  A The R7's are much cheaper, last forever with little lap time
>      def, and
>      >A  A are easy to get.
>      >A  A Anyway, that's what we use.
>      >A  A On Mon, Feb 28, 2022, 5:03 PM Christopher Kimball
>      >A  A <[1][8]ChrisVKimball at msn.com> wrote:
>      >
>      >A  A  A  A  Hi Jeff,
>      >A  A  A  A  Roger Kraus recommended the same setup you describe
>      with the 215
>      >A  A  A 60 on
>      >A  A  A  A  the front.A  You said you went with a 245 50 on the
>      front, but
>      >A  A  A isn't
>      >A  A  A  A  that taller than a 215 60?
>      >A  A  A  A  Thanks,
>      >A  A  A  A  Chris
>      >
>      >A  A
>      A __________________________________________________________________
>      >A  A  A  A  From: Jeff Detrich <[2][9]jjdetrich at gmail.com>
>      >A  A  A  A  Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2022 11:26 AM
>      >A  A  A  A  To: Julian Kift <[3][10]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
>      >A  A  A  A  Cc: Christopher Kimball <[4][11]chrisvkimball at msn.com>;
>      Pantera
>      >A  A  A Owners Club of
>      >A  A  A  A  America <[5][12]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>      >A  A  A  A  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tire question
>      >A  A  A  A  When I upgraded, there were no matching speed rated
>      tires except
>      >A  A  A  A  Avons.
>      >A  A  A  A  BACK:A  Avon 15" CR6ZZ are 295/50 are high speed rated
>      - R IIRC.
>      >A  A  A  Look
>      >A  A  A  A  and handle great.
>      >A  A  A  A  FRONT:A  A Avon 15" CR6ZZ 215/60 same as above. I
>      mounted them but
>      >A  A  A they
>      >A  A  A  A  look somewhat out of proportion to my eye. /60 is too
>      thin and
>      >A  A  A too
>      >A  A  A  A  tall. I switched to a Michelin speed rated tire
>      245/50R15 -
>      >A  A  A sorry,
>      >A  A  A  A  don't remember the model, car is in the shop. Car looks
>      balanced
>      >A  A  A and is
>      >A  A  A  A  balanced on the track.
>      >A  A  A  A  Pirelli Cinturato Classics are new to me. Would like
>      hear more
>      >A  A  A  A  details.
>      >A  A  A  A  Good to hear car coming along.
>      >A  A  A  A  Jeff
>      >A  A  A  A  6559
>      >A  A  A  A  On Sat, Feb 26, 2022 at 12:34 PM Julian Kift
>      >A  A  A  A  <[1][6][13]julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:
>      >A  A  A  A  A  A  A I think the 15" tires of choice are the Avon
>      CR6ZZ or a
>      >A  A  A Pirelli
>      >A  A  A  A  A  A  A Cinturato P7 classic, but even the Pirelli
>      345/35/15
>      >A  A  A replacement
>      >A  A  A  A  A  now
>      >A  A  A  A  A  A  A has a VR designation with conflicting
>      information on speed
>      >A  A  A rating
>      >A  A  A  A  A  A  A quoted as Z or Y.
>      >A  A  A  A  A  A  A Julian
>      >
>      >A  A
>      A __________________________________________________________________
>      >A  A  A  A  A  A  A From: DeTomaso
>      >A  A  A <[2][7][14]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on
>      >A  A  A  A  A  behalf of
>      >A  A  A  A  A  A  A Christopher Kimball
>      <[3][8][15]chrisvkimball at msn.com>
>      >A  A  A  A  A  A  A Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2022 10:04 AM
>      >A  A  A  A  A  A  A To: Pantera Owners Club of America
>      >A  A  A  A  A  <[4][9][16]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>      >A  A  A  A  A  A  A Subject: [DeTomaso] Tire question
>      >A  A  A  A  A  A  A Hi everyone,
>      >A  A  A  A  A  A  A I haven't been contributing much to the Pantera
>      community
>      >A  A  A for a
>      >A  A  A  A  A  long
>      >A  A  A  A  A  A  A while because my car has been undergoing an
>      extensive
>      >A  A  A  A  A  restoration.
>      >A  A  A  A  A  A  A Thanks for understanding; once I get my car
>      back I'll return
>      >A  A  A once
>      >A  A  A  A  A  again
>      >A  A  A  A  A  A  A to the realm of the Pantera faithful.
>      >A  A  A  A  A  A  A At this point the light at the end of the
>      tunnel is shining
>      >A  A  A  A  A  brightly,
>      >A  A  A  A  A  A  A and it appears my car should be done very soon.
>      >A  A  A  A  A  A  A However, the tech who has been working on it
>      told me when he
>      >A  A  A took
>      >A  A  A  A  A  it
>      >A  A  A  A  A  A  A for a test drive recently the tires were so
>      hard it was
>      >A  A  A almost
>      >A  A  A  A  A  A  A dangerous to corner!
>      >A  A  A  A  A  A  A I know there have been a lot of tire
>      discussions over the
>      >A  A  A years,
>      >A  A  A  A  A  and
>      >A  A  A  A  A  A  A now I'm hoping someone will remember the
>      solution to my tire
>      >A  A  A  A  A  question,
>      >A  A  A  A  A  A  A which I'm sure has been dealt with already:A
>      Is it possible
>      >A  A  A for
>      >A  A  A  A  A  me to
>      >A  A  A  A  A  A  A find new tires which are Z, W, or Y rated in
>      the sizes 225
>      >A  A  A 50 15
>      >A  A  A  A  A  A  A (front), and either 295 50 15 or 285 50 15
>      (rear)?
>      >A  A  A  A  A  A  A I'm not overly concerned with the price if I
>      can get the
>      >A  A  A sizes I
>      >A  A  A  A  A  need,
>      >A  A  A  A  A  A  A but obviously if I can find something
>      reasonably priced,
>      >A  A  A that
>      >A  A  A  A  A  would be
>      >A  A  A  A  A  A  A good.
>      >A  A  A  A  A  A  A Thanks, I appreciate your help!
>      >A  A  A  A  A  A  A Sincerely,
>      >A  A  A  A  A  A  A Chris
>      >A  A  A  A  A  _______________________________________________
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>      >A  A 1. mailto:[28]ChrisVKimball at msn.com
>      >A  A 2. mailto:[29]jjdetrich at gmail.com
>      >A  A 3. mailto:[30]julian_kift at hotmail.com
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>    2. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
>    3. mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com
>    4. mailto:ChrisVKimball at msn.com
>    5. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
>    6. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
>    7. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>    8. mailto:ChrisVKimball at msn.com
>    9. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
>   10. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
>   11. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
>   12. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   13. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
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>   15. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
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>   23. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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>   28. mailto:ChrisVKimball at msn.com
>   29. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
>   30. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
>   31. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
>   32. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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   I thought you were looking for race tires (Avon's).A  The Hoosier R7's
   are race tires and inappropriate for road driving.A  But perhaps you
   can learn something from the sizing.

   On Mon, Feb 28, 2022, 9:02 PM Jeff Detrich <[1]jjdetrich at gmail.com>
   wrote:

     A  A Chris, these emails are bringing to mind some things that need
     to be
     A  A said, I use 8" front tires either 245s and they require some
     inner
     A  A fender shaping.AA  Mea culpa. And I agree that 225s are
     probably more
     A  A appropriate. At the time, there weren't any 225 speed rated
     tires
     A  A available.A
     A  A Jeff
     A  A On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 8:40 PM Mike Drew via DeTomaso
     A  A <[1][2]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
     A  A  A Chris,
     A  A  A You aneeda ZR rated tires? Thatas a ridiculous assertion.
     A  A  A First of all, you are driving your car on the STREET so you
     want
     A  A  A street tires. Not race tires.AA  Race tires come with loads
     of
     A  A  A compromises, chief among them being severe unsuitability for
     driving
     A  A  A in wet weather conditions. You live in Seattle!
     A  A  A Secondly, ZR-rated tires are certified for 2 hours of
     continuous
     A  A  A running at speeds above 149 mph. Do you truly believe you
     will be
     A  A  A driving like that?
     A  A  A ZR tires can come with either W (168 mph) or Y (168 mph)
     speed
     A  A  A ratings. So strictly speaking, there is no Z speed rating.
     ZR just
     A  A  A means afast radiala and the speed rating is either W or Y.
     A  A  A BFG radial T/A tires are only S-rated (112 mph). Does that
     mean they
     A  A  A will explode at 113 mph? Of course not. You can easily
     exceed the
     A  A  A speed rating with perfect safety, in short durations of a
     few
     A  A  A minutes at a time.
     A  A  A If you think you will be running for 30-40 minutes straight
     above
     A  A  A 112 mph you may want to consider different options. However
     for the
     A  A  A type of use I think your car will see, if you stick to the
     15-inch
     A  A  A wheels, you would probably be best served with the BFGs in
     A  A  A appropriate sizes.
     A  A  A Good luck!
     A  A  A Mike
     A  A  A Sent from my iPad
     A  A  A > On Feb 28, 2022, at 17:00, Christopher Kimball
     A  A  A <[2][3]chrisvkimball at msn.com> wrote:
     A  A  A >
     A  A  A > i>>?AA  A Thanks for the info--I don't use my car on the
     track, but
     A  A  A I have been
     A  A  A >AA  A known to drive it thousands of miles across the
     country to Fun
     A  A  A Rallys,
     A  A  A >AA  A so I need tires that are Z rated since I might
     hypothetically
     A  A  A drive
     A  A  A >AA  A rapidly.
     A  A  A >
     A  A  A >AA  A Aren't Hoosiers lower-speed tires?
     A  A  A >
     A  A  A >AA  A Sincerely,
     A  A  A >
     A  A  A >AA  A Chris
     A  A  A >AA  A
     A  A  A A
     __________________________________________________________________
     A  A  A >
     A  A  A >AA  A From: Steve Lisa <[3][4]stevelisa at patentit.com>
     A  A  A >AA  A Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 4:41 PM
     A  A  A >AA  A To: Christopher Kimball <[4][5]ChrisVKimball at msn.com>
     A  A  A >AA  A Cc: Jeff Detrich <[5][6]jjdetrich at gmail.com>; Julian
     Kift
     A  A  A >AA  A <[6][7]julian_kift at hotmail.com>; Pantera Owners Club
     of America
     A  A  A >AA  A <[7][8]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
     A  A  A >AA  A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tire question
     A  A  A >
     A  A  A >AA  A I use Hoosier R7's.AA  225/50 in front and 275/50 in
     rear.A
     A  A  A They work
     A  A  A >AA  A great for racing and so far have no complaints at all
     and are
     A  A  A turning
     A  A  A >AA  A very competitive lap times.
     A  A  A >AA  A Presently, you won't be able to buy Avon's due to
     supply
     A  A  A issues ...at
     A  A  A >AA  A least we can't.AA  Roger Krause says they hard to get
     and he is
     A  A  A only
     A  A  A >AA  A supplying his best customers.
     A  A  A >AA  A The R7's are much cheaper, last forever with little
     lap time
     A  A  A def, and
     A  A  A >AA  A are easy to get.
     A  A  A >AA  A Anyway, that's what we use.
     A  A  A >AA  A On Mon, Feb 28, 2022, 5:03 PM Christopher Kimball
     A  A  A >AA  A <[1][8][9]ChrisVKimball at msn.com> wrote:
     A  A  A >
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  Hi Jeff,
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  Roger Kraus recommended the same setup you
     describe
     A  A  A with the 215
     A  A  A >AA  AA  A 60 on
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  the front.AA  You said you went with a 245
     50 on the
     A  A  A front, but
     A  A  A >AA  AA  A isn't
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  that taller than a 215 60?
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  Thanks,
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  Chris
     A  A  A >
     A  A  A >AA  A
     A  A  A A
     __________________________________________________________________
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  From: Jeff Detrich
     <[2][9][10]jjdetrich at gmail.com>
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2022 11:26 AM
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  To: Julian Kift
     <[3][10][11]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  Cc: Christopher Kimball
     <[4][11][12]chrisvkimball at msn.com>;
     A  A  A Pantera
     A  A  A >AA  AA  A Owners Club of
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  America
     <[5][12][13]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tire question
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  When I upgraded, there were no matching
     speed rated
     A  A  A tires except
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  Avons.
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  BACK:AA  Avon 15" CR6ZZ are 295/50 are high
     speed rated
     A  A  A - R IIRC.
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  Look
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  and handle great.
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  FRONT:AA  A Avon 15" CR6ZZ 215/60 same as
     above. I
     A  A  A mounted them but
     A  A  A >AA  AA  A they
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  look somewhat out of proportion to my eye.
     /60 is too
     A  A  A thin and
     A  A  A >AA  AA  A too
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  tall. I switched to a Michelin speed rated
     tire
     A  A  A 245/50R15 -
     A  A  A >AA  AA  A sorry,
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  don't remember the model, car is in the
     shop. Car looks
     A  A  A balanced
     A  A  A >AA  AA  A and is
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  balanced on the track.
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  Pirelli Cinturato Classics are new to me.
     Would like
     A  A  A hear more
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  details.
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  Good to hear car coming along.
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  Jeff
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  6559
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  On Sat, Feb 26, 2022 at 12:34 PM Julian
     Kift
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  <[1][6][13][14]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
     wrote:
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  A I think the 15" tires of choice
     are the Avon
     A  A  A CR6ZZ or a
     A  A  A >AA  AA  A Pirelli
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  A Cinturato P7 classic, but even
     the Pirelli
     A  A  A 345/35/15
     A  A  A >AA  AA  A replacement
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  now
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  A has a VR designation with
     conflicting
     A  A  A information on speed
     A  A  A >AA  AA  A rating
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  A quoted as Z or Y.
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  A Julian
     A  A  A >
     A  A  A >AA  A
     A  A  A A
     __________________________________________________________________
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  A From: DeTomaso
     A  A  A >AA  AA  A
     <[2][7][14][15]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  behalf of
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  A Christopher Kimball
     A  A  A <[3][8][15][16]chrisvkimball at msn.com>
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  A Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2022
     10:04 AM
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  A To: Pantera Owners Club of
     America
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA
     <[4][9][16][17]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  A Subject: [DeTomaso] Tire question
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  A Hi everyone,
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  A I haven't been contributing much
     to the Pantera
     A  A  A community
     A  A  A >AA  AA  A for a
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  long
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  A while because my car has been
     undergoing an
     A  A  A extensive
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  restoration.
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  A Thanks for understanding; once I
     get my car
     A  A  A back I'll return
     A  A  A >AA  AA  A once
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  again
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  A to the realm of the Pantera
     faithful.
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  A At this point the light at the
     end of the
     A  A  A tunnel is shining
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  brightly,
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  A and it appears my car should be
     done very soon.
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  A However, the tech who has been
     working on it
     A  A  A told me when he
     A  A  A >AA  AA  A took
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  it
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  A for a test drive recently the
     tires were so
     A  A  A hard it was
     A  A  A >AA  AA  A almost
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  A dangerous to corner!
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  A I know there have been a lot of
     tire
     A  A  A discussions over the
     A  A  A >AA  AA  A years,
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  and
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  A now I'm hoping someone will
     remember the
     A  A  A solution to my tire
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  question,
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  A which I'm sure has been dealt
     with already:A
     A  A  A Is it possible
     A  A  A >AA  AA  A for
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  me to
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  A find new tires which are Z, W, or
     Y rated in
     A  A  A the sizes 225
     A  A  A >AA  AA  A 50 15
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  A (front), and either 295 50 15 or
     285 50 15
     A  A  A (rear)?
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  A I'm not overly concerned with the
     price if I
     A  A  A can get the
     A  A  A >AA  AA  A sizes I
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  need,
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  A but obviously if I can find
     something
     A  A  A reasonably priced,
     A  A  A >AA  AA  A that
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  would be
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  A good.
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  A Thanks, I appreciate your help!
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  A Sincerely,
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  A Chris
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  AA
     _______________________________________________
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     A  A  A >AA  AA  A References
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  1.
     mailto:[12][19][20]julian_kift at hotmail.com
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  2.
     A  A  A mailto:[13][20][21]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  3. mailto:[14][21][22]chrisvkimball at msn.com
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  4.
     mailto:[15][22][23]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  5.
     mailto:[16][23][24]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     A  A  A >AA  AA  AA  AA  6.
     A  A  A >AA  A
     A  A  A A
     [17][24][25]https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http
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     A  A  A >AA  AA  A To manage your subscription (change email
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     A  A  A >
     A  A  A > References
     A  A  A >
     A  A  A >AA  A 1. mailto:[28][29]ChrisVKimball at msn.com
     A  A  A >AA  A 2. mailto:[29][30]jjdetrich at gmail.com
     A  A  A >AA  A 3. mailto:[30][31]julian_kift at hotmail.com
     A  A  A >AA  A 4. mailto:[31][32]chrisvkimball at msn.com
     A  A  A >AA  A 5. mailto:[32][33]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     A  A  A >AA  A 6. mailto:[33][34]julian_kift at hotmail.com
     A  A  A >AA  A 7.
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     A  A  A >AA  A 9. mailto:[36][37]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     A  A  A >AA  10. mailto:[37][38]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     A  A  A >AA  11.
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     A  A  A [49][53]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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     A [50][54]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     A  A  A To manage your subscription (change email address,
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     A  A  A etc.) use the links above.
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     References
     A  A 1. mailto:[55]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     A  A 2. mailto:[56]chrisvkimball at msn.com
     A  A 3. mailto:[57]stevelisa at patentit.com
     A  A 4. mailto:[58]ChrisVKimball at msn.com
     A  A 5. mailto:[59]jjdetrich at gmail.com
     A  A 6. mailto:[60]julian_kift at hotmail.com
     A  A 7. mailto:[61]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     A  A 8. mailto:[62]ChrisVKimball at msn.com
     A  A 9. mailto:[63]jjdetrich at gmail.com
     A  10. mailto:[64]julian_kift at hotmail.com
     A  11. mailto:[65]chrisvkimball at msn.com
     A  12. mailto:[66]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     A  13. mailto:[67]julian_kift at hotmail.com
     A  14. mailto:[68]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
     A  15. mailto:[69]chrisvkimball at msn.com
     A  16. mailto:[70]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     A  17. mailto:[71]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     A  18. [72]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     A  19. mailto:[73]julian_kift at hotmail.com
     A  20. mailto:[74]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
     A  21. mailto:[75]chrisvkimball at msn.com
     A  22. mailto:[76]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     A  23. mailto:[77]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     A  24.
     [78]https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2
     A  25. [79]http://Fserver.detomasolist.com/
     A  26. mailto:[80]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     A  27. [81]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     A  28. mailto:[82]ChrisVKimball at msn.com
     A  29. mailto:[83]jjdetrich at gmail.com
     A  30. mailto:[84]julian_kift at hotmail.com
     A  31. mailto:[85]chrisvkimball at msn.com
     A  32. mailto:[86]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     A  33. mailto:[87]julian_kift at hotmail.com
     A  34. mailto:[88]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
     A  35. mailto:[89]chrisvkimball at msn.com
     A  36. mailto:[90]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     A  37. mailto:[91]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     A  38.
     [92]https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2
     Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C0
     1%7C%7C804dc73671924dd3843208d9fb1c373b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaa
     aaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637816920871358636%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoi
     MC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sd
     ata=qkTaxo2vFVNR3mfriWWkmZhRpckFVf5g2rStXMexCq8%3D&reserved=0
     A  39. mailto:[93]julian_kift at hotmail.com
     A  40. mailto:[94]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
     A  41. mailto:[95]chrisvkimball at msn.com
     A  42. mailto:[96]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     A  43. mailto:[97]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     A  44.
     [98]https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2
     Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C0
     1%7C%7C804dc73671924dd3843208d9fb1c373b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaa
     aaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637816920871358636%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoi
     MC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sd
     ata=qkTaxo2vFVNR3mfriWWkmZhRpckFVf5g2rStXMexCq8%3D&reserved=0
     A  45. mailto:[99]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     A  46.
     [100]https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%
     2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C
     01%7C%7C804dc73671924dd3843208d9fb1c373b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaa
     aaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637816920871358636%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjo
     iMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&s
     data=qkTaxo2vFVNR3mfriWWkmZhRpckFVf5g2rStXMexCq8%3D&reserved=0
     A  47. mailto:[101]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     A  48. [102]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     A  49. mailto:[103]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     A  50. [104]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     _______________________________________________
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References

   1. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
   2. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   3. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
   4. mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com
   5. mailto:ChrisVKimball at msn.com
   6. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
   7. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
   8. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   9. mailto:ChrisVKimball at msn.com
  10. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
  11. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
  12. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
  13. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  14. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
  15. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  16. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
  17. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  18. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  19. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  20. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
  21. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  22. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
  23. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  24. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  25. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3
  26. http://Fserver.detomasolist.com/
  27. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  28. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  29. mailto:ChrisVKimball at msn.com
  30. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
  31. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
  32. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
  33. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  34. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
  35. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  36. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
  37. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  38. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  39. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2
  40. http://Fserver.detomasolist.com/
  41. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
  42. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  43. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
  44. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  45. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  46. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2
  47. http://Fserver.detomasolist.com/
  48. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  49. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2
  50. http://Fserver.detomasolist.com/
  51. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  52. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  53. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  54. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  55. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  56. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
  57. mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com
  58. mailto:ChrisVKimball at msn.com
  59. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
  60. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
  61. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  62. mailto:ChrisVKimball at msn.com
  63. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
  64. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
  65. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
  66. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  67. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
  68. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  69. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
  70. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  71. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  72. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  73. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
  74. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  75. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
  76. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  77. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  78. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2
  79. http://Fserver.detomasolist.com/
  80. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  81. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  82. mailto:ChrisVKimball at msn.com
  83. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
  84. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
  85. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
  86. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  87. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
  88. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  89. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
  90. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  91. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  92. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%7C%7C804dc73671924dd3843208d9fb1c373b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637816920871358636%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=qkTaxo2vFVNR3mfriWWkmZhRpckFVf5g2rStXMexCq8%3D&reserved=0
  93. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
  94. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  95. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
  96. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  97. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  98. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%7C%7C804dc73671924dd3843208d9fb1c373b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637816920871358636%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=qkTaxo2vFVNR3mfriWWkmZhRpckFVf5g2rStXMexCq8%3D&reserved=0
  99. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
 100. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%7C%7C804dc73671924dd3843208d9fb1c373b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637816920871358636%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=qkTaxo2vFVNR3mfriWWkmZhRpckFVf5g2rStXMexCq8%3D&reserved=0
 101. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
 102. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
 103. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
 104. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
 105. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
 106. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso


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