[DeTomaso] Tire question

Jeff Detrich jjdetrich at gmail.com
Mon Feb 28 23:02:03 EST 2022


Chris, these emails are bringing to mind some things that need to be said,
I use 8" front tires either 245s and they require some inner fender
shaping.  Mea culpa. And I agree that 225s are probably more appropriate.
At the time, there weren't any 225 speed rated tires available.

Jeff

On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 8:40 PM Mike Drew via DeTomaso <
detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:

> Chris,
>
> You ‘need’ ZR rated tires? That’s a ridiculous assertion.
>
> First of all, you are driving your car on the STREET so you want street
> tires. Not race tires.  Race tires come with loads of compromises, chief
> among them being severe unsuitability for driving in wet weather
> conditions. You live in Seattle!
>
> Secondly, ZR-rated tires are certified for 2 hours of continuous running
> at speeds above 149 mph. Do you truly believe you will be driving like that?
>
> ZR tires can come with either W (168 mph) or Y (168 mph) speed ratings. So
> strictly speaking, there is no Z speed rating. ZR just means ‘fast radial’
> and the speed rating is either W or Y.
>
> BFG radial T/A tires are only S-rated (112 mph). Does that mean they will
> explode at 113 mph? Of course not. You can easily exceed the speed rating
> with perfect safety, in short durations of a few minutes at a time.
>
> If you think you will be running for 30-40 minutes straight above 112 mph
> you may want to consider different options. However for the type of use I
> think your car will see, if you stick to the 15-inch wheels, you would
> probably be best served with the BFGs in appropriate sizes.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Feb 28, 2022, at 17:00, Christopher Kimball <chrisvkimball at msn.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >    Thanks for the info--I don't use my car on the track, but I have been
> >   known to drive it thousands of miles across the country to Fun Rallys,
> >   so I need tires that are Z rated since I might hypothetically drive
> >   rapidly.
> >
> >   Aren't Hoosiers lower-speed tires?
> >
> >   Sincerely,
> >
> >   Chris
> >     __________________________________________________________________
> >
> >   From: Steve Lisa <stevelisa at patentit.com>
> >   Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 4:41 PM
> >   To: Christopher Kimball <ChrisVKimball at msn.com>
> >   Cc: Jeff Detrich <jjdetrich at gmail.com>; Julian Kift
> >   <julian_kift at hotmail.com>; Pantera Owners Club of America
> >   <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> >   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tire question
> >
> >   I use Hoosier R7's.  225/50 in front and 275/50 in rear.  They work
> >   great for racing and so far have no complaints at all and are turning
> >   very competitive lap times.
> >   Presently, you won't be able to buy Avon's due to supply issues ...at
> >   least we can't.  Roger Krause says they hard to get and he is only
> >   supplying his best customers.
> >   The R7's are much cheaper, last forever with little lap time def, and
> >   are easy to get.
> >   Anyway, that's what we use.
> >   On Mon, Feb 28, 2022, 5:03 PM Christopher Kimball
> >   <[1]ChrisVKimball at msn.com> wrote:
> >
> >        Hi Jeff,
> >        Roger Kraus recommended the same setup you describe with the 215
> >     60 on
> >        the front.  You said you went with a 245 50 on the front, but
> >     isn't
> >        that taller than a 215 60?
> >        Thanks,
> >        Chris
> >
> >     __________________________________________________________________
> >        From: Jeff Detrich <[2]jjdetrich at gmail.com>
> >        Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2022 11:26 AM
> >        To: Julian Kift <[3]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
> >        Cc: Christopher Kimball <[4]chrisvkimball at msn.com>; Pantera
> >     Owners Club of
> >        America <[5]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> >        Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tire question
> >        When I upgraded, there were no matching speed rated tires except
> >        Avons.
> >        BACK:  Avon 15" CR6ZZ are 295/50 are high speed rated - R IIRC.
> >      Look
> >        and handle great.
> >        FRONT:   Avon 15" CR6ZZ 215/60 same as above. I mounted them but
> >     they
> >        look somewhat out of proportion to my eye. /60 is too thin and
> >     too
> >        tall. I switched to a Michelin speed rated tire 245/50R15 -
> >     sorry,
> >        don't remember the model, car is in the shop. Car looks balanced
> >     and is
> >        balanced on the track.
> >        Pirelli Cinturato Classics are new to me. Would like hear more
> >        details.
> >        Good to hear car coming along.
> >        Jeff
> >        6559
> >        On Sat, Feb 26, 2022 at 12:34 PM Julian Kift
> >        <[1][6]julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >             I think the 15" tires of choice are the Avon CR6ZZ or a
> >     Pirelli
> >             Cinturato P7 classic, but even the Pirelli 345/35/15
> >     replacement
> >          now
> >             has a VR designation with conflicting information on speed
> >     rating
> >             quoted as Z or Y.
> >             Julian
> >
> >     __________________________________________________________________
> >             From: DeTomaso
> >     <[2][7]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on
> >          behalf of
> >             Christopher Kimball <[3][8]chrisvkimball at msn.com>
> >             Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2022 10:04 AM
> >             To: Pantera Owners Club of America
> >          <[4][9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> >             Subject: [DeTomaso] Tire question
> >             Hi everyone,
> >             I haven't been contributing much to the Pantera community
> >     for a
> >          long
> >             while because my car has been undergoing an extensive
> >          restoration.
> >             Thanks for understanding; once I get my car back I'll return
> >     once
> >          again
> >             to the realm of the Pantera faithful.
> >             At this point the light at the end of the tunnel is shining
> >          brightly,
> >             and it appears my car should be done very soon.
> >             However, the tech who has been working on it told me when he
> >     took
> >          it
> >             for a test drive recently the tires were so hard it was
> >     almost
> >             dangerous to corner!
> >             I know there have been a lot of tire discussions over the
> >     years,
> >          and
> >             now I'm hoping someone will remember the solution to my tire
> >          question,
> >             which I'm sure has been dealt with already:  Is it possible
> >     for
> >          me to
> >             find new tires which are Z, W, or Y rated in the sizes 225
> >     50 15
> >             (front), and either 295 50 15 or 285 50 15 (rear)?
> >             I'm not overly concerned with the price if I can get the
> >     sizes I
> >          need,
> >             but obviously if I can find something reasonably priced,
> >     that
> >          would be
> >             good.
> >             Thanks, I appreciate your help!
> >             Sincerely,
> >             Chris
> >          _______________________________________________
> >          Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
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> >     References
> >        1. mailto:[12]julian_kift at hotmail.com
> >        2. mailto:[13]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> >        3. mailto:[14]chrisvkimball at msn.com
> >        4. mailto:[15]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >        5. mailto:[16]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >        6.
> >     [17]https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2
> >     Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C0
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> >     _______________________________________________
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> > References
> >
> >   1. mailto:ChrisVKimball at msn.com
> >   2. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
> >   3. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
> >   4. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
> >   5. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >   6. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
> >   7. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> >   8. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
> >   9. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >  10. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >  11.
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%7C%7C804dc73671924dd3843208d9fb1c373b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637816920871358636%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=qkTaxo2vFVNR3mfriWWkmZhRpckFVf5g2rStXMexCq8%3D&reserved=0
> >  12. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
> >  13. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> >  14. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
> >  15. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >  16. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >  17.
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%7C%7C804dc73671924dd3843208d9fb1c373b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637816920871358636%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=qkTaxo2vFVNR3mfriWWkmZhRpckFVf5g2rStXMexCq8%3D&reserved=0
> >  18. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >  19.
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%7C%7C804dc73671924dd3843208d9fb1c373b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637816920871358636%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=qkTaxo2vFVNR3mfriWWkmZhRpckFVf5g2rStXMexCq8%3D&reserved=0
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
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> the archiving of list messages.
-------------- next part --------------
   Chris, these emails are bringing to mind some things that need to be
   said, I use 8" front tires either 245s and they require some inner
   fender shaping.A  Mea culpa. And I agree that 225s are probably more
   appropriate. At the time, there weren't any 225 speed rated tires
   available.A

   Jeff

   On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 8:40 PM Mike Drew via DeTomaso
   <[1]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:

     Chris,
     You aneeda ZR rated tires? Thatas a ridiculous assertion.
     First of all, you are driving your car on the STREET so you want
     street tires. Not race tires.A  Race tires come with loads of
     compromises, chief among them being severe unsuitability for driving
     in wet weather conditions. You live in Seattle!
     Secondly, ZR-rated tires are certified for 2 hours of continuous
     running at speeds above 149 mph. Do you truly believe you will be
     driving like that?
     ZR tires can come with either W (168 mph) or Y (168 mph) speed
     ratings. So strictly speaking, there is no Z speed rating. ZR just
     means afast radiala and the speed rating is either W or Y.
     BFG radial T/A tires are only S-rated (112 mph). Does that mean they
     will explode at 113 mph? Of course not. You can easily exceed the
     speed rating with perfect safety, in short durations of a few
     minutes at a time.
     If you think you will be running for 30-40 minutes straight above
     112 mph you may want to consider different options. However for the
     type of use I think your car will see, if you stick to the 15-inch
     wheels, you would probably be best served with the BFGs in
     appropriate sizes.
     Good luck!
     Mike
     Sent from my iPad
     > On Feb 28, 2022, at 17:00, Christopher Kimball
     <[2]chrisvkimball at msn.com> wrote:
     >
     > i>>?A  A Thanks for the info--I don't use my car on the track, but
     I have been
     >A  A known to drive it thousands of miles across the country to Fun
     Rallys,
     >A  A so I need tires that are Z rated since I might hypothetically
     drive
     >A  A rapidly.
     >
     >A  A Aren't Hoosiers lower-speed tires?
     >
     >A  A Sincerely,
     >
     >A  A Chris
     >A  A
     A __________________________________________________________________
     >
     >A  A From: Steve Lisa <[3]stevelisa at patentit.com>
     >A  A Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 4:41 PM
     >A  A To: Christopher Kimball <[4]ChrisVKimball at msn.com>
     >A  A Cc: Jeff Detrich <[5]jjdetrich at gmail.com>; Julian Kift
     >A  A <[6]julian_kift at hotmail.com>; Pantera Owners Club of America
     >A  A <[7]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
     >A  A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tire question
     >
     >A  A I use Hoosier R7's.A  225/50 in front and 275/50 in rear.A
     They work
     >A  A great for racing and so far have no complaints at all and are
     turning
     >A  A very competitive lap times.
     >A  A Presently, you won't be able to buy Avon's due to supply
     issues ...at
     >A  A least we can't.A  Roger Krause says they hard to get and he is
     only
     >A  A supplying his best customers.
     >A  A The R7's are much cheaper, last forever with little lap time
     def, and
     >A  A are easy to get.
     >A  A Anyway, that's what we use.
     >A  A On Mon, Feb 28, 2022, 5:03 PM Christopher Kimball
     >A  A <[1][8]ChrisVKimball at msn.com> wrote:
     >
     >A  A  A  A  Hi Jeff,
     >A  A  A  A  Roger Kraus recommended the same setup you describe
     with the 215
     >A  A  A 60 on
     >A  A  A  A  the front.A  You said you went with a 245 50 on the
     front, but
     >A  A  A isn't
     >A  A  A  A  that taller than a 215 60?
     >A  A  A  A  Thanks,
     >A  A  A  A  Chris
     >
     >A  A
     A __________________________________________________________________
     >A  A  A  A  From: Jeff Detrich <[2][9]jjdetrich at gmail.com>
     >A  A  A  A  Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2022 11:26 AM
     >A  A  A  A  To: Julian Kift <[3][10]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
     >A  A  A  A  Cc: Christopher Kimball <[4][11]chrisvkimball at msn.com>;
     Pantera
     >A  A  A Owners Club of
     >A  A  A  A  America <[5][12]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
     >A  A  A  A  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tire question
     >A  A  A  A  When I upgraded, there were no matching speed rated
     tires except
     >A  A  A  A  Avons.
     >A  A  A  A  BACK:A  Avon 15" CR6ZZ are 295/50 are high speed rated
     - R IIRC.
     >A  A  A  Look
     >A  A  A  A  and handle great.
     >A  A  A  A  FRONT:A  A Avon 15" CR6ZZ 215/60 same as above. I
     mounted them but
     >A  A  A they
     >A  A  A  A  look somewhat out of proportion to my eye. /60 is too
     thin and
     >A  A  A too
     >A  A  A  A  tall. I switched to a Michelin speed rated tire
     245/50R15 -
     >A  A  A sorry,
     >A  A  A  A  don't remember the model, car is in the shop. Car looks
     balanced
     >A  A  A and is
     >A  A  A  A  balanced on the track.
     >A  A  A  A  Pirelli Cinturato Classics are new to me. Would like
     hear more
     >A  A  A  A  details.
     >A  A  A  A  Good to hear car coming along.
     >A  A  A  A  Jeff
     >A  A  A  A  6559
     >A  A  A  A  On Sat, Feb 26, 2022 at 12:34 PM Julian Kift
     >A  A  A  A  <[1][6][13]julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A I think the 15" tires of choice are the Avon
     CR6ZZ or a
     >A  A  A Pirelli
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A Cinturato P7 classic, but even the Pirelli
     345/35/15
     >A  A  A replacement
     >A  A  A  A  A  now
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A has a VR designation with conflicting
     information on speed
     >A  A  A rating
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A quoted as Z or Y.
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A Julian
     >
     >A  A
     A __________________________________________________________________
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A From: DeTomaso
     >A  A  A <[2][7][14]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on
     >A  A  A  A  A  behalf of
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A Christopher Kimball
     <[3][8][15]chrisvkimball at msn.com>
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2022 10:04 AM
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A To: Pantera Owners Club of America
     >A  A  A  A  A  <[4][9][16]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A Subject: [DeTomaso] Tire question
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A Hi everyone,
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A I haven't been contributing much to the Pantera
     community
     >A  A  A for a
     >A  A  A  A  A  long
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A while because my car has been undergoing an
     extensive
     >A  A  A  A  A  restoration.
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A Thanks for understanding; once I get my car
     back I'll return
     >A  A  A once
     >A  A  A  A  A  again
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A to the realm of the Pantera faithful.
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A At this point the light at the end of the
     tunnel is shining
     >A  A  A  A  A  brightly,
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A and it appears my car should be done very soon.
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A However, the tech who has been working on it
     told me when he
     >A  A  A took
     >A  A  A  A  A  it
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A for a test drive recently the tires were so
     hard it was
     >A  A  A almost
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A dangerous to corner!
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A I know there have been a lot of tire
     discussions over the
     >A  A  A years,
     >A  A  A  A  A  and
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A now I'm hoping someone will remember the
     solution to my tire
     >A  A  A  A  A  question,
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A which I'm sure has been dealt with already:A
     Is it possible
     >A  A  A for
     >A  A  A  A  A  me to
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A find new tires which are Z, W, or Y rated in
     the sizes 225
     >A  A  A 50 15
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A (front), and either 295 50 15 or 285 50 15
     (rear)?
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A I'm not overly concerned with the price if I
     can get the
     >A  A  A sizes I
     >A  A  A  A  A  need,
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A but obviously if I can find something
     reasonably priced,
     >A  A  A that
     >A  A  A  A  A  would be
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A good.
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A Thanks, I appreciate your help!
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A Sincerely,
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A Chris
     >A  A  A  A  A  _______________________________________________
     >A  A  A  A  A  Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
     >A  A  A  A  A  Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
     >A  A  A  A  A  DeTomaso mailing list
     >A  A  A  A  A  [5][10][17]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     >A  A  A  A  A
     [6][11][18]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     >A  A  A  A  A  To manage your subscription (change email address,
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     >A  A  A  A  A  etc.) use the links above.
     >A  A  A  A  A  Members who post to this list grant license to the
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     >A  A  A forward
     >A  A  A  A  A  any message posted here to all past, current, or
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     >A  A  A of
     >A  A  A  A  A  the list. They also grant the list owner permission
     to maintain
     >A  A  A an
     >A  A  A  A  A  archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
     >A  A  A References
     >A  A  A  A  1. mailto:[12][19]julian_kift at hotmail.com
     >A  A  A  A  2.
     mailto:[13][20]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
     >A  A  A  A  3. mailto:[14][21]chrisvkimball at msn.com
     >A  A  A  A  4. mailto:[15][22]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     >A  A  A  A  5. mailto:[16][23]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     >A  A  A  A  6.
     >A  A
     A [17][24]https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3
     A%2F%2
     >A  A
     A [25]Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=
     04%7C0
     >A  A
     A 1%7C%7Cdb2c5468e29f4000744108d9f95df230%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaa
     aa
     >A  A
     A aaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637815004165691327%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIj
     oi
     >A  A
     A MC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&
     sd
     >A  A
     A ata=rMHqIds6seLwcbwGTJDHbQ2MrzYLDNRKC5SY3WgiGGw%3D&reserved=0
     >A  A  A _______________________________________________
     >A  A  A Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
     >A  A  A Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
     >A  A  A DeTomaso mailing list
     >A  A  A [18][26]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     >A  A
     A [19][27]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     >A  A  A To manage your subscription (change email address,
     unsubscribe,
     >A  A  A etc.) use the links above.
     >A  A  A Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
     forward
     >A  A  A any message posted here to all past, current, or future
     members of
     >A  A  A the list. They also grant the list owner permission to
     maintain an
     >A  A  A archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
     >
     > References
     >
     >A  A 1. mailto:[28]ChrisVKimball at msn.com
     >A  A 2. mailto:[29]jjdetrich at gmail.com
     >A  A 3. mailto:[30]julian_kift at hotmail.com
     >A  A 4. mailto:[31]chrisvkimball at msn.com
     >A  A 5. mailto:[32]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     >A  A 6. mailto:[33]julian_kift at hotmail.com
     >A  A 7. mailto:[34]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
     >A  A 8. mailto:[35]chrisvkimball at msn.com
     >A  A 9. mailto:[36]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     >A  10. mailto:[37]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     >A  11.
     [38]https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2
     Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C0
     1%7C%7C804dc73671924dd3843208d9fb1c373b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaa
     aaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637816920871358636%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoi
     MC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sd
     ata=qkTaxo2vFVNR3mfriWWkmZhRpckFVf5g2rStXMexCq8%3D&reserved=0
     >A  12. mailto:[39]julian_kift at hotmail.com
     >A  13. mailto:[40]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
     >A  14. mailto:[41]chrisvkimball at msn.com
     >A  15. mailto:[42]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     >A  16. mailto:[43]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     >A  17.
     [44]https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2
     Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C0
     1%7C%7C804dc73671924dd3843208d9fb1c373b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaa
     aaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637816920871358636%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoi
     MC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sd
     ata=qkTaxo2vFVNR3mfriWWkmZhRpckFVf5g2rStXMexCq8%3D&reserved=0
     >A  18. mailto:[45]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     >A  19.
     [46]https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2
     Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C0
     1%7C%7C804dc73671924dd3843208d9fb1c373b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaa
     aaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637816920871358636%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoi
     MC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sd
     ata=qkTaxo2vFVNR3mfriWWkmZhRpckFVf5g2rStXMexCq8%3D&reserved=0
     > _______________________________________________
     >
     >
     > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
     > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
     > DeTomaso mailing list
     > [47]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     > [48]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     >
     > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
     etc.) use the links above.
     >
     > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
     any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
     the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
     archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
     _______________________________________________
     Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
     Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
     DeTomaso mailing list
     [49]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     [50]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
     etc.) use the links above.
     Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
     any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
     the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
     archive or approve the archiving of list messages.

References

   1. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   2. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
   3. mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com
   4. mailto:ChrisVKimball at msn.com
   5. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
   6. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
   7. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   8. mailto:ChrisVKimball at msn.com
   9. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
  10. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
  11. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
  12. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  13. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
  14. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  15. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
  16. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  17. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  18. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  19. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
  20. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  21. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
  22. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  23. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  24. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2
  25. http://Fserver.detomasolist.com/
  26. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  27. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  28. mailto:ChrisVKimball at msn.com
  29. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
  30. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
  31. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
  32. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  33. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
  34. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  35. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
  36. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  37. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  38. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%7C%7C804dc73671924dd3843208d9fb1c373b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637816920871358636%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=qkTaxo2vFVNR3mfriWWkmZhRpckFVf5g2rStXMexCq8%3D&reserved=0
  39. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
  40. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  41. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
  42. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  43. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  44. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%7C%7C804dc73671924dd3843208d9fb1c373b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637816920871358636%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=qkTaxo2vFVNR3mfriWWkmZhRpckFVf5g2rStXMexCq8%3D&reserved=0
  45. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  46. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%7C%7C804dc73671924dd3843208d9fb1c373b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637816920871358636%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=qkTaxo2vFVNR3mfriWWkmZhRpckFVf5g2rStXMexCq8%3D&reserved=0
  47. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  48. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  49. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  50. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso


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