[DeTomaso] Tire question

jderyke at aol.com jderyke at aol.com
Mon Feb 28 21:26:11 EST 2022


The 245 fits an 8" Campy wheel better than a 7" and also corrects most of the scrub-radius mismatch. A 215 or a 225-50 is stretched slightly on an 8" but fits a 7". From my experience, a 245-50 on an 8" may touch here and there at full lock, with all possible shock spacers gone and the car set slightly lower in front than stock. The amount of caster you run also influences since extra caster pulls the whole suspension- with the wheel & tire- backwards. 
On my '72 L,  a pair of 245s touched the left front cowl drain pipe on the firewall, the extreme edge of the wiper motor shield and the fwd lower edge of the right wheel opening. Nothing serious- 5 minutes with a ball peen hammer fixed all the contact spots. IMHO a 245 in 15, 16, 17 or 18" size is the widest possible tire that fits in front without far more hammer work or flares. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Kimball <ChrisVKimball at msn.com>
To: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>; Jeff Detrich <jjdetrich at gmail.com>
Cc: Pantera Owners Club of America <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Mon, Feb 28, 2022 5:01 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tire question

  So it sounds as if the 245 would be slightly lower profile, which I
  like, but would it be too wide to turn sharply without scraping?
    __________________________________________________________________

  From: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
  Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 4:53 PM
  To: Jeff Detrich <jjdetrich at gmail.com>; Christopher Kimball
  <ChrisVKimball at msn.com>
  Cc: Pantera Owners Club of America <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tire question

  More specifically a 245/50 tire is 245*50% = 122.5mm tire wall height
  or 4.8" therefore 15 + 2x4.8 = 24.65" total dia.
  Whereas 215/60 = 129mm tire wall height or 5.08" therefore 15 = 2x5.08
  = 25.2" total dia.
  Julian
    __________________________________________________________________

  From: Jeff Detrich <jjdetrich at gmail.com>
  Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 4:40 PM
  To: Christopher Kimball <ChrisVKimball at msn.com>
  Cc: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>; Pantera Owners Club of
  America <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tire question

  Chris, these are not very intuitive. Of the numbers, the 60 and 50 are
  more significant. They are the aspect ratio, height vs width. The 215
  and 245 are the section width. So the 60 number is the important
  number.
  Jeff
  [1]https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?gclid=CjwKCAiAg
  vKQBhBbEiwAaPQw3HBthKm5yIVo6aQU7Uiy8HWl2NUheMUMI40Zwn8YEmXqJ-70qin6KRoC
  MzMQAvD_BwE&techid=7&ef_id=CjwKCAiAgvKQBhBbEiwAaPQw3HBthKm5yIVo6aQU7Uiy
  8HWl2NUheMUMI40Zwn8YEmXqJ-70qin6KRoCMzMQAvD_BwE:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!3756!3!3
  51458717475!e!!g!!aspect%20ratio%20tire&gclsrc=aw.ds
  On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 6:03 PM Christopher Kimball
  <[2]ChrisVKimball at msn.com> wrote:

  Hi Jeff,
  Roger Kraus recommended the same setup you describe with the 215 60 on
  the front.  You said you went with a 245 50 on the front, but isn't
  that taller than a 215 60?
  Thanks,
  Chris
    __________________________________________________________________

  From: Jeff Detrich <[3]jjdetrich at gmail.com>
  Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2022 11:26 AM
  To: Julian Kift <[4]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
  Cc: Christopher Kimball <[5]chrisvkimball at msn.com>; Pantera Owners Club
  of America <[6]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tire question

  When I upgraded, there were no matching speed rated tires except
  Avons.
  BACK:  Avon 15" CR6ZZ are 295/50 are high speed rated - R IIRC.  Look
  and handle great.
  FRONT:  Avon 15" CR6ZZ 215/60 same as above. I mounted them but they
  look somewhat out of proportion to my eye. /60 is too thin and too
  tall. I switched to a Michelin speed rated tire 245/50R15 - sorry,
  don't remember the model, car is in the shop. Car looks balanced and is
  balanced on the track.
  Pirelli Cinturato Classics are new to me. Would like hear more
  details.
  Good to hear car coming along.
  Jeff
  6559
  On Sat, Feb 26, 2022 at 12:34 PM Julian Kift
  <[7]julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:

        I think the 15" tires of choice are the Avon CR6ZZ or a Pirelli
        Cinturato P7 classic, but even the Pirelli 345/35/15 replacement
    now
        has a VR designation with conflicting information on speed rating
        quoted as Z or Y.
        Julian

    __________________________________________________________________
        From: DeTomaso <[8]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on
    behalf of
        Christopher Kimball <[9]chrisvkimball at msn.com>
        Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2022 10:04 AM
        To: Pantera Owners Club of America
    <[10]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
        Subject: [DeTomaso] Tire question
        Hi everyone,
        I haven't been contributing much to the Pantera community for a
    long
        while because my car has been undergoing an extensive
    restoration.
        Thanks for understanding; once I get my car back I'll return once
    again
        to the realm of the Pantera faithful.
        At this point the light at the end of the tunnel is shining
    brightly,
        and it appears my car should be done very soon.
        However, the tech who has been working on it told me when he took
    it
        for a test drive recently the tires were so hard it was almost
        dangerous to corner!
        I know there have been a lot of tire discussions over the years,
    and
        now I'm hoping someone will remember the solution to my tire
    question,
        which I'm sure has been dealt with already:  Is it possible for
    me to
        find new tires which are Z, W, or Y rated in the sizes 225 50 15
        (front), and either 295 50 15 or 285 50 15 (rear)?
        I'm not overly concerned with the price if I can get the sizes I
    need,
        but obviously if I can find something reasonably priced, that
    would be
        good.
        Thanks, I appreciate your help!
        Sincerely,
        Chris
    _______________________________________________
    Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
    Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
    DeTomaso mailing list
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    etc.) use the links above.
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    any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
    the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
    archive or approve the archiving of list messages.

References

  1. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tirerack.com%2Ftires%2Ftiretech%2Ftechpage.jsp%3Fgclid%3DCjwKCAiAgvKQBhBbEiwAaPQw3HBthKm5yIVo6aQU7Uiy8HWl2NUheMUMI40Zwn8YEmXqJ-70qin6KRoCMzMQAvD_BwE%26techid%3D7%26ef_id%3DCjwKCAiAgvKQBhBbEiwAaPQw3HBthKm5yIVo6aQU7Uiy8HWl2NUheMUMI40Zwn8YEmXqJ-70qin6KRoCMzMQAvD_BwE%3AG%3As%26s_kwcid%3DAL!3756!3!351458717475!e!!g!!aspect%2520ratio%2520tire%26gclsrc%3Daw.ds&data=04%7C01%7C%7C341ba64ed2a043798a3508d9fb1de653%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637816928101218363%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=9nRuFw3yKJcvdMac1GMQpBc4IovV6J8X9EcnDK6XqBk%3D&reserved=0
  2. mailto:ChrisVKimball at msn.com
  3. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
  4. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
  5. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
  6. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  7. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
  8. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  9. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
  10. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  11. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  12. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%7C%7C341ba64ed2a043798a3508d9fb1de653%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637816928101218363%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Q44rVzZUOFsNjOCqPYhFa%2Bn5tsocq1H89YC6ZgqcxPc%3D&reserved=0
_______________________________________________


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-------------- next part --------------
   The 245 fits an 8" Campy wheel better than a 7" and also corrects most
   of the scrub-radius mismatch. A 215 or a 225-50 is stretched slightly
   on an 8" but fits a 7". From my experience, a 245-50 on an 8" may touch
   here and there at full lock, with all possible shock spacers gone and
   the car set slightly lower in front than stock. The amount of caster
   you run also influences since extra caster pulls the whole suspension-
   with the wheel & tire- backwards.
   On my '72 L,  a pair of 245s touched the left front cowl drain pipe on
   the firewall, the extreme edge of the wiper motor shield and the fwd
   lower edge of the right wheel opening. Nothing serious- 5 minutes with
   a ball peen hammer fixed all the contact spots. IMHO a 245 in 15, 16,
   17 or 18" size is the widest possible tire that fits in front without
   far more hammer work or flares.
   -----Original Message-----
   From: Christopher Kimball <ChrisVKimball at msn.com>
   To: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>; Jeff Detrich
   <jjdetrich at gmail.com>
   Cc: Pantera Owners Club of America <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   Sent: Mon, Feb 28, 2022 5:01 pm
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tire question
     So it sounds as if the 245 would be slightly lower profile, which I
     like, but would it be too wide to turn sharply without scraping?
       __________________________________________________________________
     From: Julian Kift <[1]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
     Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 4:53 PM
     To: Jeff Detrich <[2]jjdetrich at gmail.com>; Christopher Kimball
     <[3]ChrisVKimball at msn.com>
     Cc: Pantera Owners Club of America
   <[4]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tire question
     More specifically a 245/50 tire is 245*50% = 122.5mm tire wall height
     or 4.8" therefore 15 + 2x4.8 = 24.65" total dia.
     Whereas 215/60 = 129mm tire wall height or 5.08" therefore 15 =
   2x5.08
     = 25.2" total dia.
     Julian
       __________________________________________________________________
     From: Jeff Detrich <[5]jjdetrich at gmail.com>
     Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 4:40 PM
     To: Christopher Kimball <[6]ChrisVKimball at msn.com>
     Cc: Julian Kift <[7]julian_kift at hotmail.com>; Pantera Owners Club of
     America <[8]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tire question
     Chris, these are not very intuitive. Of the numbers, the 60 and 50
   are
     more significant. They are the aspect ratio, height vs width. The 215
     and 245 are the section width. So the 60 number is the important
     number.
     Jeff

   [1][9]https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?gclid=CjwKCA
   iAg

   vKQBhBbEiwAaPQw3HBthKm5yIVo6aQU7Uiy8HWl2NUheMUMI40Zwn8YEmXqJ-70qin6KRoC

   MzMQAvD_BwE&techid=7&ef_id=CjwKCAiAgvKQBhBbEiwAaPQw3HBthKm5yIVo6aQU7Uiy

   8HWl2NUheMUMI40Zwn8YEmXqJ-70qin6KRoCMzMQAvD_BwE:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!3756!3!3
     51458717475!e!!g!!aspect%20ratio%20tire&gclsrc=aw.ds
     On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 6:03 PM Christopher Kimball
     <[2][10]ChrisVKimball at msn.com> wrote:
     Hi Jeff,
     Roger Kraus recommended the same setup you describe with the 215 60
   on
     the front.  You said you went with a 245 50 on the front, but isn't
     that taller than a 215 60?
     Thanks,
     Chris
       __________________________________________________________________
     From: Jeff Detrich <[3][11]jjdetrich at gmail.com>
     Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2022 11:26 AM
     To: Julian Kift <[4][12]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
     Cc: Christopher Kimball <[5][13]chrisvkimball at msn.com>; Pantera
   Owners Club
     of America <[6][14]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tire question
     When I upgraded, there were no matching speed rated tires except
     Avons.
     BACK:  Avon 15" CR6ZZ are 295/50 are high speed rated - R IIRC.  Look
     and handle great.
     FRONT:  Avon 15" CR6ZZ 215/60 same as above. I mounted them but they
     look somewhat out of proportion to my eye. /60 is too thin and too
     tall. I switched to a Michelin speed rated tire 245/50R15 - sorry,
     don't remember the model, car is in the shop. Car looks balanced and
   is
     balanced on the track.
     Pirelli Cinturato Classics are new to me. Would like hear more
     details.
     Good to hear car coming along.
     Jeff
     6559
     On Sat, Feb 26, 2022 at 12:34 PM Julian Kift
     <[7][15]julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:
           I think the 15" tires of choice are the Avon CR6ZZ or a Pirelli
           Cinturato P7 classic, but even the Pirelli 345/35/15
   replacement
       now
           has a VR designation with conflicting information on speed
   rating
           quoted as Z or Y.
           Julian
       __________________________________________________________________
           From: DeTomaso
   <[8][16]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on
       behalf of
           Christopher Kimball <[9][17]chrisvkimball at msn.com>
           Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2022 10:04 AM
           To: Pantera Owners Club of America
       <[10][18]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
           Subject: [DeTomaso] Tire question
           Hi everyone,
           I haven't been contributing much to the Pantera community for a
       long
           while because my car has been undergoing an extensive
       restoration.
           Thanks for understanding; once I get my car back I'll return
   once
       again
           to the realm of the Pantera faithful.
           At this point the light at the end of the tunnel is shining
       brightly,
           and it appears my car should be done very soon.
           However, the tech who has been working on it told me when he
   took
       it
           for a test drive recently the tires were so hard it was almost
           dangerous to corner!
           I know there have been a lot of tire discussions over the
   years,
       and
           now I'm hoping someone will remember the solution to my tire
       question,
           which I'm sure has been dealt with already:  Is it possible for
       me to
           find new tires which are Z, W, or Y rated in the sizes 225 50
   15
           (front), and either 295 50 15 or 285 50 15 (rear)?
           I'm not overly concerned with the price if I can get the sizes
   I
       need,
           but obviously if I can find something reasonably priced, that
       would be
           good.
           Thanks, I appreciate your help!
           Sincerely,
           Chris
       _______________________________________________
       Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
       Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
       DeTomaso mailing list
       [11][19]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
       [12][20]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
       To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
       etc.) use the links above.
       Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
       any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
       the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
       archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
   References
     1.
   [21]https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fw
   ww.tirerack.com%2Ftires%2Ftiretech%2Ftechpage.jsp%3Fgclid%3DCjwKCAiAgvK
   QBhBbEiwAaPQw3HBthKm5yIVo6aQU7Uiy8HWl2NUheMUMI40Zwn8YEmXqJ-70qin6KRoCMz
   MQAvD_BwE%26techid%3D7%26ef_id%3DCjwKCAiAgvKQBhBbEiwAaPQw3HBthKm5yIVo6a
   QU7Uiy8HWl2NUheMUMI40Zwn8YEmXqJ-70qin6KRoCMzMQAvD_BwE%3AG%3As%26s_kwcid
   %3DAL!3756!3!351458717475!e!!g!!aspect%2520ratio%2520tire%26gclsrc%3Daw
   .ds&data=04%7C01%7C%7C341ba64ed2a043798a3508d9fb1de653%7C84df9e7fe9f640
   afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637816928101218363%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d
   8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3
   000&sdata=9nRuFw3yKJcvdMac1GMQpBc4IovV6J8X9EcnDK6XqBk%3D&reserved=0
     2. mailto:[22]ChrisVKimball at msn.com
     3. mailto:[23]jjdetrich at gmail.com
     4. mailto:[24]julian_kift at hotmail.com
     5. mailto:[25]chrisvkimball at msn.com
     6. mailto:[26]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     7. mailto:[27]julian_kift at hotmail.com
     8. mailto:[28]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
     9. mailto:[29]chrisvkimball at msn.com
     10. mailto:[30]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     11. mailto:[31]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     12.
   [32]https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fse
   rver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%7C%7
   C341ba64ed2a043798a3508d9fb1de653%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C
   1%7C0%7C637816928101218363%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAi
   LCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Q44rVzZUOFs
   NjOCqPYhFa%2Bn5tsocq1H89YC6ZgqcxPc%3D&reserved=0
   _______________________________________________
   Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
   Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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   Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
   message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
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References

   1. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
   2. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
   3. mailto:ChrisVKimball at msn.com
   4. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   5. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
   6. mailto:ChrisVKimball at msn.com
   7. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
   8. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   9. https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?gclid=CjwKCAiAg
  10. mailto:ChrisVKimball at msn.com
  11. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
  12. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
  13. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
  14. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  15. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
  16. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  17. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
  18. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  19. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  20. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  21. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tirerack.com%2Ftires%2Ftiretech%2Ftechpage.jsp%3Fgclid%3DCjwKCAiAgvKQBhBbEiwAaPQw3HBthKm5yIVo6aQU7Uiy8HWl2NUheMUMI40Zwn8YEmXqJ-70qin6KRoCMzMQAvD_BwE%26techid%3D7%26ef_id%3DCjwKCAiAgvKQBhBbEiwAaPQw3HBthKm5yIVo6aQU7Uiy8HWl2NUheMUMI40Zwn8YEmXqJ-70qin6KRoCMzMQAvD_BwE%3AG%3As%26s_kwcid%3DAL!3756!3!351458717475!e!!g!!aspect%2520ratio%2520tire%26gclsrc%3Daw.ds&data=04%7C01%7C%7C341ba64ed2a043798a3508d9fb1de653%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637816928101218363%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=9nRuFw3yKJcvdMac1GMQpBc4IovV6J8X9EcnDK6XqBk%3D&reserved=0
  22. mailto:ChrisVKimball at msn.com
  23. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
  24. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
  25. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
  26. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  27. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
  28. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  29. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
  30. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  31. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  32. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%7C%7C341ba64ed2a043798a3508d9fb1de653%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637816928101218363%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Q44rVzZUOFsNjOCqPYhFa%2Bn5tsocq1H89YC6ZgqcxPc%3D&reserved=0
  33. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  34. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso


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