[DeTomaso] The Dead Battery Dilemma
Jeff Detrich
jjdetrich at gmail.com
Wed Sep 29 13:21:14 EDT 2021
"They are subsidized by the government."
There are a lot of climate supporters and policy makers who believe that
subsidizing EVs is a waste of money. It may have gotten the EV market
rolling but it is clearly not needed now, nor has it been for some time.
People who buy these cars are early adopters. They were going to buy EVs
anyway and they most likely can afford to pay for them without a subsidy.
Just another perk to the well off and Elon Musk.
There are sensible things that can be done. Subsidies for EVs isn't one of
them.
Jeff
6559
On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 7:35 AM Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com> wrote:
> That's only partially true. Overall, I agree, but it's not quite accurate.
>
> There are lots of EVs in South Florida.
>
> 1. Teslas come with a slow charger that plugs into a normal outlet - so
> maybe 15 amps. Most owners use this. It charges the car completely
> overnight. This is for normal commute driving.
> 2. Many businesses have free quick chargers. Many owners drive to
> Target, for example, and quick charge their Teslas while they hang out in
> the store (they have a Starbucks in the Target).
> 3. The toll roads have free quick chargers at the rest areas. At least I
> think they're free. I might be wrong about it being free. I've never used
> them.
> 4. You can buy a quick charger from Tesla. It can charge up to 75 amps,
> but you can set it wherever you want - assuming you have the proper gauge
> wires and circuit breaker. I installed one for my neighbor. She never
> used it. She didn't drive her Tesla much, so she kept it parked in the
> stall with the slow charger.
> 5. I bet many people that have a "quick charger" don't realize that their
> installer configured it for 30 amp. They're already clueless about "saving
> the planet". They're probably not smart enough to check the amperage.
>
> My point is that at least in my circle of friends, most EV owners never
> really use the 75amp charger. And those that do, are only charging at 75
> amps for maybe an hour.
>
> Don't get me wrong. I agree with the bash on EVs. They are expensive.
> They are subsidized by the government. They do nothing to reduce
> pollution. The battery technology isn't there yet. Most hybrids get bad
> fuel economy. I laugh at a Mercedes hybrid, for example, that gets under
> 30mpg. Why?
>
> I've posted before that I had a Honda Insight - the original one. I loved
> that car. The cost to replace the batteries at the dealer was $4K. I did
> it myself with a 3rd party battery pack. It was $1K. Then Panasonic
> stopped making the D-cell batteries that went into the pack, so you can't
> get those batteries anymore.
>
> We put 250,000 miles on it. When it was new, it would do 75mpg. When it
> had 200,000 miles with a fresh battery, it would still do 60mpg. It had
> the usual dings from surviving that long. The rings were worn on the
> 3-cylinder. If we could still get batteries, we'd probably still have that
> car.
>
>
>
> On 9/28/21, 8:30 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Dick Koch" <
> detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
> redcatman74 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From a friend:
> REALITY CHECK: At a neighborhood BBQ I was talking to a neighbor, a
> BC
> Hydro Executive named Eric. I asked him how that renewable thing was
> doing. He laughed, then got serious about it.
> "If you really intend to adopt electric vehicles, you have to face
> certain realities. For example, a home charging system for a Tesla
> requires 75 amp service. The average house is equipped with 100 amp
> service. On our small street (approximately 25 homes), the
> electrical
> infrastructure would be unable to carry more than three houses with
> a
> single Tesla each. For even half the homes to have electric
> vehicles,
> the system would be wildly over-loaded.
> "This is the elephant in the room with electric vehicles. Our
> residential infrastructure cannot bear the load.
> So, as our genius elected officials promote this nonsense, not only
> are
> we being urged to buy these things and replace our reliable, cheap
> generating systems with expensive new windmills and solar cells,
> but we
> will also have to renovate our entire delivery system! This later
> "investment" will not be revealed until we're so far down this dead
> end
> road that it will be presented with an 'OOPS...!' and a shrug."
> Eric test drove the Chevy Volt at the invitation of General Motors
> and
> he writes, "For four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted
> only 25 miles before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline
> engine."
> Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran on
> the
> battery. So, the range including the 9-gallon gas tank and the 16
> kwh
> battery is approximately 270 miles.
> It will take you 4.5 hours to drive 270 miles at 60 mph. Then add 10
> hours to charge the battery and you have a total trip time of 14.5
> hours. In a typical road trip your average speed (including charging
> time) would be 20 mph.
> According to General Motors, the Volt battery holds 16 kwh of
> electricity. It takes a full 10 hours to charge a drained battery.
> The
> cost for the electricity to charge the Volt is never mentioned, so I
> looked up what I pay for electricity.
> I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the seasons)
> $1.16
> per kwh. 16 kwh x $1.16 per kwh = $18.56 to charge the battery.
> $18.56
> per charge divided by 25 miles = $0.74 per mile to operate the Volt
> using the battery. Compare this to a similar size car with a
> gasoline
> engine that gets only 32 mpg. $3.19 per gallon divided by 32 Mpg =
> $0.10 per mile.A A
> The gasoline powered car costs about $25,000 while the Volt costs
> $46,000 plus. So the Government wants us to pay twice as much for a
> car, that costs more than seven times as much to run, and takes
> three
> times longer to drive across the country.
> WAKE UP NORTH AMERICA!!!!!!!
>
> On Tue, Sep 28, 2021, 6:39 PM Mike Drew via DeTomaso
> <[1]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>
> Yup. So-called agreena cars are nothing but rolling toxic waste
> dumps, and in many parts of the country they are essentially
> coal-powered because thatas where the electricity comes from.
> The smug, self-righteous Kool-aid drinkers who are touting this
> technology as being beneficial to the planet willfully ignore the
> facts.
> Mike
> Sent from my iPad
> > On Sep 28, 2021, at 15:05, Scott Mead Photography
> <[2]scott at scottmeadphotography.com> wrote:
> >
> > i>>?Very interesting story, which touches on the main issue I
> addressed back in 1999 when I was working for Edmunds.com (the
> Company actually leased one of the first Insights that hit SoCal
> for
> a year). The manufacturers and customers are so laser-focused on
> fuel economy, reduced emissions and health of the Planet, that
> they
> completely ignore the costs (monetarily and environmental) acradle
> to grave.a Thatas from the time the first shovel of dirt is mined
> for the Lithium, through the complete recycling/disposal of the
> vehicle.
> >
> > On the overall scheme, EVs aren't as agreena as politicians make
> them out to be.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Sep 28, 2021, at 1:30 PM, B Hower via DeTomaso
> <[3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> i>>?A A The Dead Battery Dilemma
> >>A
> [1][4]
> https://www.science.org/news/2021/05/millions-electric-cars-ar
> e-comi
> >>A ng-what-happens-all-dead-batteries
> >>A Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there
> may
> not be
> >>A ! )
> >>
> >> References
> >>
> >>A 1.
> [5]
> https://www.science.org/news/2021/05/millions-electric-cars-are-c
> oming-what-happens-all-dead-batteries
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
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> References
>
> 1. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 2. mailto:scott at scottmeadphotography.com
> 3. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 4.
> https://www.science.org/news/2021/05/millions-electric-cars-are-comi
> 5.
> https://www.science.org/news/2021/05/millions-electric-cars-are-coming-what-happens-all-dead-batteries
> 6. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 7. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 8. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 9. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 10. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 11. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
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>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
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>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
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> the archiving of list messages.
-------------- next part --------------
"They are subsidized by the government."A
There are a lot of climate supporters and policyA makers who believe
that subsidizing EVs is a waste of money. It may have gotten the EV
market rolling but it is clearly not needed now, nor has it been for
some time. People who buy these cars are early adopters. They were
going to buy EVs anyway and they most likely can afford to pay for them
without a subsidy. Just another perk to the well off and Elon Musk.A
There are sensible things that can be done. Subsidies for EVs isn't one
of them.
Jeff
6559
On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 7:35 AM Will Kooiman
<[1]will.kooiman at gmail.com> wrote:
That's only partially true.A Overall, I agree, but it's not quite
accurate.
There are lots of EVs in South Florida.
1.A Teslas come with a slow charger that plugs into a normal outlet
- so maybe 15 amps.A Most owners use this.A It charges the car
completely overnight.A This is for normal commute driving.
2.A Many businesses have free quick chargers.A Many owners drive
to Target, for example, and quick charge their Teslas while they
hang out in the store (they have a Starbucks in the Target).
3.A The toll roads have free quick chargers at the rest areas.A At
least I think they're free.A I might be wrong about it being
free.A I've never used them.
4.A You can buy a quick charger from Tesla.A It can charge up to
75 amps, but you can set it wherever you want - assuming you have
the proper gauge wires and circuit breaker.A I installed one for my
neighbor.A She never used it.A She didn't drive her Tesla much, so
she kept it parked in the stall with the slow charger.
5.A I bet many people that have a "quick charger" don't realize
that their installer configured it for 30 amp.A They're already
clueless about "saving the planet".A They're probably not smart
enough to check the amperage.
My point is that at least in my circle of friends, most EV owners
never really use the 75amp charger.A And those that do, are only
charging at 75 amps for maybe an hour.
Don't get me wrong.A I agree with the bash on EVs.A They are
expensive.A They are subsidized by the government.A They do
nothing to reduce pollution.A The battery technology isn't there
yet.A Most hybrids get bad fuel economy.A I laugh at a Mercedes
hybrid, for example, that gets under 30mpg.A Why?
I've posted before that I had a Honda Insight - the original one.A
I loved that car.A The cost to replace the batteries at the dealer
was $4K.A I did it myself with a 3rd party battery pack.A It was
$1K.A Then Panasonic stopped making the D-cell batteries that went
into the pack, so you can't get those batteries anymore.
We put 250,000 miles on it.A When it was new, it would do 75mpg.A
When it had 200,000 miles with a fresh battery, it would still do
60mpg.A It had the usual dings from surviving that long.A The
rings were worn on the 3-cylinder.A If we could still get
batteries, we'd probably still have that car.
i>>?On 9/28/21, 8:30 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Dick Koch"
<[2]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
[3]redcatman74 at gmail.com> wrote:
A A A A From a friend:
A A A A REALITY CHECK: At a neighborhood BBQ I was talking to a
neighbor, a BC
A A A A Hydro Executive named Eric. I asked him how that
renewable thing was
A A A A doing. He laughed, then got serious about it.
A A A A "If you really intend to adopt electric vehicles, you
have to face
A A A A certain realities. For example, a home charging system
for a Tesla
A A A A requires 75 amp service. The average house is equipped
with 100 amp
A A A A service. On our small street (approximately 25 homes),
the electrical
A A A A infrastructure would be unable to carry more than three
houses with a
A A A A single Tesla each. For even half the homes to have
electric vehicles,
A A A A the system would be wildly over-loaded.
A A A A "This is the elephant in the room with electric vehicles.
Our
A A A A residential infrastructure cannot bear the load.
A A A A So, as our genius elected officials promote this
nonsense, not only are
A A A A we being urged to buy these things and replace our
reliable, cheap
A A A A generating systems with expensive new windmills and solar
cells, but we
A A A A will also have to renovate our entire delivery system!
This later
A A A A "investment" will not be revealed until we're so far down
this dead end
A A A A road that it will be presented with an 'OOPS...!' and a
shrug."
A A A A Eric test drove the Chevy Volt at the invitation of
General Motors and
A A A A he writes, "For four days in a row, the fully charged
battery lasted
A A A A only 25 miles before the Volt switched to the reserve
gasoline engine."
A A A A Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles
it ran on the
A A A A battery. So, the range including the 9-gallon gas tank
and the 16 kwh
A A A A battery is approximately 270 miles.
A A A A It will take you 4.5 hours to drive 270 miles at 60 mph.
Then add 10
A A A A hours to charge the battery and you have a total trip
time of 14.5
A A A A hours. In a typical road trip your average speed
(including charging
A A A A time) would be 20 mph.
A A A A According to General Motors, the Volt battery holds 16
kwh of
A A A A electricity. It takes a full 10 hours to charge a drained
battery. The
A A A A cost for the electricity to charge the Volt is never
mentioned, so I
A A A A looked up what I pay for electricity.
A A A A I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the
seasons) $1.16
A A A A per kwh. 16 kwh x $1.16 per kwh = $18.56 to charge the
battery. $18.56
A A A A per charge divided by 25 miles = $0.74 per mile to
operate the Volt
A A A A using the battery. Compare this to a similar size car
with a gasoline
A A A A engine that gets only 32 mpg. $3.19 per gallon divided by
32 Mpg =
A A A A $0.10 per mile.A A
A A A A The gasoline powered car costs about $25,000 while the
Volt costs
A A A A $46,000 plus. So the Government wants us to pay twice as
much for a
A A A A car, that costs more than seven times as much to run, and
takes three
A A A A times longer to drive across the country.
A A A A WAKE UP NORTH AMERICA!!!!!!!
A A A A On Tue, Sep 28, 2021, 6:39 PM Mike Drew via DeTomaso
A A A A <[1][4]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
A A A A A Yup. So-called agreena cars are nothing but rolling
toxic waste
A A A A A dumps, and in many parts of the country they are
essentially
A A A A A coal-powered because thatas where the electricity
comes from.
A A A A A The smug, self-righteous Kool-aid drinkers who are
touting this
A A A A A technology as being beneficial to the planet willfully
ignore the
A A A A A facts.
A A A A A Mike
A A A A A Sent from my iPad
A A A A A > On Sep 28, 2021, at 15:05, Scott Mead Photography
A A A A A <[2][5]scott at scottmeadphotography.com> wrote:
A A A A A >
A A A A A > i>>?Very interesting story, which touches on the
main issue I
A A A A A addressed back in 1999 when I was working for
Edmunds.com (the
A A A A A Company actually leased one of the first Insights that
hit SoCal for
A A A A A a year). The manufacturers and customers are so
laser-focused on
A A A A A fuel economy, reduced emissions and health of the
Planet, that they
A A A A A completely ignore the costs (monetarily and
environmental) acradle
A A A A A to grave.a Thatas from the time the first shovel of
dirt is mined
A A A A A for the Lithium, through the complete
recycling/disposal of the
A A A A A vehicle.
A A A A A >
A A A A A > On the overall scheme, EVs aren't as agreena as
politicians make
A A A A A them out to be.
A A A A A >
A A A A A > Sent from my iPhone
A A A A A >
A A A A A >> On Sep 28, 2021, at 1:30 PM, B Hower via DeTomaso
A A A A A <[3][6]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
A A A A A >>
A A A A A >> i>>?AA AA The Dead Battery Dilemma
A A A A A >>A
A A A A
A [1][4][7]https://www.science.org/news/2021/05/millions-electric-ca
rs-ar
A A A A A e-comi
A A A A A >>AA ng-what-happens-all-dead-batteries
A A A A A >>AA Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow
-- for there may
A A A A A not be
A A A A A >>AA ! )
A A A A A >>
A A A A A >> References
A A A A A >>
A A A A A >>AA 1.
A A A A
A [5][8]https://www.science.org/news/2021/05/millions-electric-cars-
are-c
A A A A A oming-what-happens-all-dead-batteries
A A A A A >> _______________________________________________
A A A A A >>
A A A A A >>
A A A A A >> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
A A A A A >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
A A A A A >> DeTomaso mailing list
A A A A A >> [6][9]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
A A A A A >>
[7][10]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
A A A A A >>
A A A A A >> To manage your subscription (change email address,
unsubscribe,
A A A A A etc.) use the links above.
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A A A A A >> Members who post to this list grant license to the
list to
A A A A A forward any message posted here to all past, current,
or future
A A A A A members of the list. They also grant the list owner
permission to
A A A A A maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list
messages.
A A A A A >
A A A A A > _______________________________________________
A A A A A >
A A A A A >
A A A A A > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
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A A A A A > DeTomaso mailing list
A A A A A > [8][11]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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A A A A A DeTomaso mailing list
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A A References
A A A A 1. mailto:[15]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
A A A A 2. mailto:[16]scott at scottmeadphotography.com
A A A A 3. mailto:[17]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
A A A A 4.
[18]https://www.science.org/news/2021/05/millions-electric-cars-are-
comi
A A A A 5.
[19]https://www.science.org/news/2021/05/millions-electric-cars-are-
coming-what-happens-all-dead-batteries
A A A A 6. mailto:[20]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
A A A A 7.
[21]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
A A A A 8. mailto:[22]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
A A A A 9.
[23]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
A A A 10. mailto:[24]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
A A A 11.
[25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
A A _______________________________________________
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References
1. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
2. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
3. mailto:redcatman74 at gmail.com
4. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
5. mailto:scott at scottmeadphotography.com
6. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
7. https://www.science.org/news/2021/05/millions-electric-cars-ar
8. https://www.science.org/news/2021/05/millions-electric-cars-are-c
9. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
10. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
11. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
12. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
13. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
14. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
15. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
16. mailto:scott at scottmeadphotography.com
17. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
18. https://www.science.org/news/2021/05/millions-electric-cars-are-comi
19. https://www.science.org/news/2021/05/millions-electric-cars-are-coming-what-happens-all-dead-batteries
20. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
21. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
22. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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26. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
27. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
28. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
29. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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