[DeTomaso] Rod end/cap thru pan...
Steve Lisa
stevelisa at patentit.com
Fri Oct 29 13:13:26 EDT 2021
He is no longer in business....it is a long story.
Briefly, I bought a few NASCAR engines from him when he pretty much retired
from NASCAR motor building. I talked him into a few more motor builds, and
I really liked him. All against my son's advice.
We later switched as we had other failures and disagreements and he wanted
to fully retire. So we went out separate ways and we had this Clevor and
one other motor (which we won't ever use without full rebuild) to use up.
But, he is fully retired and I am not worried about other customers.
Also, we did dyno, test and race the original motor once and much is left
open to interpretation in this business. So while it is sad, he can point
to the fact the motor he built made it through 8-10 hard race hours, we
have publicly said we loved the motor when we used it, and he would say the
original parts needed to be replaced after the first race, and that we must
have over-revved it, etc. I have been at this too long to debate it. I
know what I believe, but there is way too much water under the bridge to
get into a debate with a retired motor builder.
Who knows....perhaps in his mind he did the right thing. I vented and then
had a few beers. I am done worrying about it. The motor was indeed great
while it lived. 👍
On Fri, Oct 29, 2021, 12:28 Mike Reilly <reillyms at live.com> wrote:
> In these two situations where the engine builders swapped parts how were
> they held accountable? I’d hate to see them still in business and doing
> the same “swap” for other customers, especially fellow Pantera owners : (
>
>
>
> It’s awesome to hear about Panteras on the track! Mike R.
>
>
>
> *From: *Scott Mead Photography <scott at scottmeadphotography.com>
> *Sent: *Thursday, October 28, 2021 12:54 PM
> *To: *Steve Lisa <stevelisa at patentit.com>
> *Cc: *List DeTomaso Forum <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>; Rich Hoppe
> <richbhoppe at gmail.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [DeTomaso] Rod end/cap thru pan...
>
>
>
> Steve - that’s incredibly furiating. I had a similar situation with my ‘66
> K-Code Mustang GT. I paid for top shelf engine parts and the builder
> installed the cheapest internals he could source. Less than 10K miles
> later, the motor sounded like an old Volvo diesel. you can imagine my
> surprise when we pulled the oil pan and found a piston skirt lying on the
> bottom. I’m glad you’ve got a mew engine builder!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Oct 28, 2021, at 3:45 PM, Steve Lisa <stevelisa at patentit.com> wrote:
> >
> > It was a Ford Motorsports Windsor crate 427 race motor that we
> > originally bought as a spare for our Panoz.A It was dyno'd but only
> > raced once. Essentially newly broken in.
> > When we went to all aluminum motors for the Panoz,A we built two: one
> > sprint motor and one endurance motor.A We didn't need the iron block
> > race motor any more as a spare.A So, weA removed the Windsor heads
> > and put on new Aluminum Cleveland heads, to build our race Clevor for
> > the Pantera.A A
> > The only way we would be missing the original bottom end in our iron
> > block Ford factory motorsport Windsor is if the motor builder that
> > built the Clevor for some reason decided it was best for his customer
> > (me) to "donate" brand a new Ford Motorsports bottom end for crap
> > substitute parts and not tell us.A A
> > That news just really makes me shake my head.A Who would do
> > that?????A It never occurred to me ...
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 14:55 Will Kooiman <[1]will.kooiman at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > You said "Cleavor".A Is this an aftermarket W based block?
> > i>>?On 10/28/21, 2:08 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Steve Lisa"
> > <[2]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
> > [3]stevelisa at patentit.com> wrote:
> > A A A A We drained the oil and there was no bearing material.AA
> > Classic rod cap
> > A A A A failure.AA It appears our old crap motor builder
> > replaced our SCAT
> > A A A A crank and rods with crap stuff, and kept the good
> > stuff.AA From we can
> > A A A A tell, the rod end bolt was loose and fell out. So, the
> > momentary oil
> > A A A A surge was likely just turning on the accusump (but we
> > have never seen
> > A A A A 120 PSI from the accusum ).AA It also explains no
> > warning...I had good
> > A A A A oil pressure and temps.AA So, quite simply, as far as we
> > can tell, one
> > A A A A rod bolt fell out.A A
> > A A A A We cannot run dry sump.A
> > A A A A A This car has been a dream to race for the last 3-4
> > weekends.AA We we
> > A A A A are now seeing the last of our weak points from poor
> > earlier choices.
> > A A A A So we are leaving our plumbing the same, it is all worked
> > great. The
> > A A A A only issue is to get a properly built motor in there. We
> > still do have
> > A A A A to work out where the low pressure is for our oil cooler.
> > We will do
> > A A A A that with cameras and arrow testing at INDE Motorsports
> > when we get a
> > A A A A chance.
> > A A A A We are actually a bit relieved that it was an
> > instantaneous rod end
> > A A A A failure and not something that either Tony or I missed
> > with gauges etc.
> > A A A A On Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 13:57 Rich Hoppe
> > <[1][4]richbhoppe at gmail.com> wrote:
> > A A A A A I have a Cleveland with a titan oil pump. It has two
> > external oil
> > A A A A A return lines.AA One that balances the air pressure
> > from the top of
> > A A A A A the motor to the bottom in the oil pan.AA The other
> > picks up excess
> > A A A A A oil in the valve cover to the oil pan.
> > A A A A A I ran the silver state at 6200 rpms almost constant.
> > A A A A A Might be an oiling option to look at.
> > A A A A A Rich
> > A A A A A Sent from my iPhone
> > A A A A A > On Oct 28, 2021, at 10:21 AM, Larry Stock
> > A A A A A <[2][5]larrys at panteraparts.com> wrote:
> > A A A A A >
> > A A A A A > i>>?NO, but it is now
> > A A A A A > LOL
> > A A A A A >
> > A A A A A >
> > A A A A A > i>>?On 10/28/21, 10:10 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of
> > Daniel C Jones"
> > A A A A A <[3][6]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on
> > behalf of
> > A A A A A [4][7]daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > A A A A A >
> > A A A A A >AA AA AA A Are you permitted to run a dry sump?
> > A A A A A >AA AA AA A Dan Jones
> > A A A A A >
> > A A A A A >AA AA AA A On Thu, Oct 28, 2021 at 11:44 AM Steve
> > Lisa
> > A A A A A <[1][5][8]stevelisa at patentit.com>
> > A A A A A >AA AA AA A wrote:
> > A A A A A >
> > A A A A A >AA AA AA AA A AAA A Trying to share from my
> > phone.AAAA Not sure it
> > A A A A A will work.A
> > A A A A A >AA AA AA AA A AAA A
> > A A A A
> > A [1][2][6][9]
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> > A A A A 2. mailto:[25]larrys at panteraparts.com
> > A A A A 3. mailto:[26]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> > A A A A 4. mailto:[27]daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com
> > A A A A 5. mailto:[28]stevelisa at patentit.com
> > A A A A 6. [29]
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> > A A A A 8. mailto:[31]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > A A A A 9.
> > [32]
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> > A A A 10. mailto:[33]stevelisa at patentit.com
> > A A A 11. [34]
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> > A A A 13. mailto:[36]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > A A A 14.
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> > A A A 16.
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> > A A A 17. mailto:[40]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > A A A 18.
> > [41]
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%7C%7C767df5ca480a4c6609ed08d99a4cc623%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637710476820064499%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=pW%2FMq9Yx%2FpOg1rp%2Bkidol0r3hlkSCrjbuu2AFaqeeh0%3D&reserved=0
> > A A A 19. mailto:[42]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > A A A 20.
> > [43]
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%7C%7C767df5ca480a4c6609ed08d99a4cc623%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637710476820064499%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=pW%2FMq9Yx%2FpOg1rp%2Bkidol0r3hlkSCrjbuu2AFaqeeh0%3D&reserved=0
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> > 1. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com <will.kooiman at gmail.com>
> > 2. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com>
> > 3. mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com <stevelisa at patentit.com>
> > 4. mailto:richbhoppe at gmail.com <richbhoppe at gmail.com>
> > 5. mailto:larrys at panteraparts.com <larrys at panteraparts.com>
> > 6. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com>
> > 7. mailto:daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com <daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com>
> > 8. mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com <stevelisa at patentit.com>
> > 9.
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphotos.app.goo.gl%2FohsXQrkr2TcyqSv49A&data=04%7C01%7C%7C767df5ca480a4c6609ed08d99a4cc623%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637710476820074456%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=nevVFkbFizfvfoAABRRX%2FXH35sF29XN9k8zsI0SXFqQ%3D&reserved=0
> > 10.
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphotos.app.goo.gl%2FohsXQrkr2TcyqSv49&data=04%7C01%7C%7C767df5ca480a4c6609ed08d99a4cc623%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637710476820074456%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=P6TUjLHIU7RjhpNxFD7olAOrJfGrpi06HqFWodlHyqs%3D&reserved=0
> > 11. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> <DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> > 12.
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%7C%7C767df5ca480a4c6609ed08d99a4cc623%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637710476820074456%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=nE54dslgPytV8Oa1Z%2FdQ2p%2Bv7Cr8mGDtDnxqs6SrAd4%3D&reserved=0
> > 13. mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com <stevelisa at patentit.com>
> > 14.
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphotos.app.goo.gl%2FohsXQrkr2TcyqSv49A&data=04%7C01%7C%7C767df5ca480a4c6609ed08d99a4cc623%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637710476820074456%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=nevVFkbFizfvfoAABRRX%2FXH35sF29XN9k8zsI0SXFqQ%3D&reserved=0
> > 15.
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphotos.app.goo.gl%2FohsXQrkr2TcyqSv49&data=04%7C01%7C%7C767df5ca480a4c6609ed08d99a4cc623%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637710476820074456%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=P6TUjLHIU7RjhpNxFD7olAOrJfGrpi06HqFWodlHyqs%3D&reserved=0
> > 16. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> <DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> > 17.
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%7C%7C767df5ca480a4c6609ed08d99a4cc623%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637710476820074456%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=nE54dslgPytV8Oa1Z%2FdQ2p%2Bv7Cr8mGDtDnxqs6SrAd4%3D&reserved=0
> > 18. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> <DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> > 19.
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%7C%7C767df5ca480a4c6609ed08d99a4cc623%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637710476820074456%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=nE54dslgPytV8Oa1Z%2FdQ2p%2Bv7Cr8mGDtDnxqs6SrAd4%3D&reserved=0
> > 20. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> <DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> > 21.
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%7C%7C767df5ca480a4c6609ed08d99a4cc623%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637710476820074456%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=nE54dslgPytV8Oa1Z%2FdQ2p%2Bv7Cr8mGDtDnxqs6SrAd4%3D&reserved=0
> > 22. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> <DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> > 23.
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%7C%7C767df5ca480a4c6609ed08d99a4cc623%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637710476820074456%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=nE54dslgPytV8Oa1Z%2FdQ2p%2Bv7Cr8mGDtDnxqs6SrAd4%3D&reserved=0
> > 24. mailto:richbhoppe at gmail.com <richbhoppe at gmail.com>
> > 25. mailto:larrys at panteraparts.com <larrys at panteraparts.com>
> > 26. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com>
> > 27. mailto:daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com <daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com>
> > 28. mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com <stevelisa at patentit.com>
> > 29.
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphotos.app.goo.gl%2FohsXQrkr2TcyqSv49A&data=04%7C01%7C%7C767df5ca480a4c6609ed08d99a4cc623%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637710476820074456%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=nevVFkbFizfvfoAABRRX%2FXH35sF29XN9k8zsI0SXFqQ%3D&reserved=0
> > 30.
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphotos.app.goo.gl%2FohsXQrkr2TcyqSv49&data=04%7C01%7C%7C767df5ca480a4c6609ed08d99a4cc623%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637710476820074456%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=P6TUjLHIU7RjhpNxFD7olAOrJfGrpi06HqFWodlHyqs%3D&reserved=0
> > 31. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> <DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> > 32.
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%7C%7C767df5ca480a4c6609ed08d99a4cc623%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637710476820074456%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=nE54dslgPytV8Oa1Z%2FdQ2p%2Bv7Cr8mGDtDnxqs6SrAd4%3D&reserved=0
> > 33. mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com <stevelisa at patentit.com>
> > 34.
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphotos.app.goo.gl%2FohsXQrkr2TcyqSv49A&data=04%7C01%7C%7C767df5ca480a4c6609ed08d99a4cc623%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637710476820074456%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=nevVFkbFizfvfoAABRRX%2FXH35sF29XN9k8zsI0SXFqQ%3D&reserved=0
> > 35.
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphotos.app.goo.gl%2FohsXQrkr2TcyqSv49&data=04%7C01%7C%7C767df5ca480a4c6609ed08d99a4cc623%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637710476820074456%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=P6TUjLHIU7RjhpNxFD7olAOrJfGrpi06HqFWodlHyqs%3D&reserved=0
> > 36. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> <DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> > 37.
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%7C%7C767df5ca480a4c6609ed08d99a4cc623%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637710476820074456%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=nE54dslgPytV8Oa1Z%2FdQ2p%2Bv7Cr8mGDtDnxqs6SrAd4%3D&reserved=0
> > 38. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> <DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> > 39.
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%7C%7C767df5ca480a4c6609ed08d99a4cc623%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637710476820074456%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=nE54dslgPytV8Oa1Z%2FdQ2p%2Bv7Cr8mGDtDnxqs6SrAd4%3D&reserved=0
> > 40. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> <DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> > 41.
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%7C%7C767df5ca480a4c6609ed08d99a4cc623%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637710476820074456%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=nE54dslgPytV8Oa1Z%2FdQ2p%2Bv7Cr8mGDtDnxqs6SrAd4%3D&reserved=0
> > 42. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> <DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> > 43.
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%7C%7C767df5ca480a4c6609ed08d99a4cc623%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637710476820074456%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=nE54dslgPytV8Oa1Z%2FdQ2p%2Bv7Cr8mGDtDnxqs6SrAd4%3D&reserved=0
> > 44. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> <DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> > 45.
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%7C%7C767df5ca480a4c6609ed08d99a4cc623%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637710476820084410%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=2beVZd4TkOQIPqVv1tmw%2BakwKhFHsXflpwmvxF8lATc%3D&reserved=0
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>
-------------- next part --------------
He is no longer in business....it is a long story.A A
Briefly, I bought a few NASCAR engines from him when he pretty much
retired from NASCAR motor building.A I talked him into a few more
motor builds, and I really liked him.A All against my son's advice.A
We later switched as we had other failures and disagreements and he
wanted to fully retire.A So we went out separate ways and we had this
Clevor and one other motor (which we won't ever use without full
rebuild) to use up.A But, he is fully retired and I am not worried
about other customers.
Also, we did dyno, test and race the original motor once and much is
left open to interpretation in this business. So while it is sad, he
can point to the fact the motor he built made it through 8-10 hard race
hours, we have publicly said we loved the motor when we used it, and he
would say the original parts needed to be replaced after the first
race, and that we must have over-revved it, etc.A A I have been at
this too long to debate it.A I know what I believe, but there is way
too much water under the bridge to get into a debate with a retired
motor builder.A A
Who knows....perhaps in his mind he did the right thing.A I vented and
then had a few beers. I am done worrying about it. The motor was indeed
great while it lived.A A d-
On Fri, Oct 29, 2021, 12:28 Mike Reilly <[1]reillyms at live.com> wrote:
In these two situations where the engine builders swapped parts how
were they held accountable?A Iad hate to see them still in business
and doing the same aswapa for other customers, especially fellow
Pantera owners : (A A
A
Itas awesome to hear about Panteras on the track!A A Mike R.
A
From: [2]Scott Mead Photography
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2021 12:54 PM
To: [3]Steve Lisa
Cc: [4]List DeTomaso Forum; [5]Rich Hoppe
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Rod end/cap thru pan...
A
Steve - thatas incredibly furiating. I had a similar situation with my
a66 K-Code Mustang GT. I paid for top shelf engine parts and the
builder installed the cheapest internals he could source. Less than 10K
miles later, the motor sounded like an old Volvo diesel. you can
imagine my surprise when we pulled the oil pan and found a piston skirt
lying on the bottom. Iam glad youave got a mew engine builder!
Sent from my iPhone
> On Oct 28, 2021, at 3:45 PM, Steve Lisa <[6]stevelisa at patentit.com>
wrote:
>
> i>>?A A It was a Ford Motorsports Windsor crate 427 race motor that
we
>A A originally bought as a spare for our Panoz.AA It was dyno'd but
only
>A A raced once. Essentially newly broken in.
>A A When we went to all aluminum motors for the Panoz,AA we built
two: one
>A A sprint motor and one endurance motor.AA We didn't need the iron
block
>A A race motor any more as a spare.AA So, weAA removed the Windsor
heads
>A A and put on new Aluminum Cleveland heads, to build our race Clevor
for
>A A the Pantera.A A
>A A The only way we would be missing the original bottom end in our
iron
>A A block Ford factory motorsport Windsor is if the motor builder
that
>A A built the Clevor for some reason decided it was best for his
customer
>A A (me) to "donate" brand a new Ford Motorsports bottom end for crap
>A A substitute parts and not tell us.A A
>A A That news just really makes me shake my head.AA Who would do
>A A that?????AA It never occurred to me ...
>
>A A On Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 14:55 Will Kooiman
<[1][7]will.kooiman at gmail.com>
>A A wrote:
>
>A A A A You said "Cleavor".AA Is this an aftermarket W based block?
>A A A A i>>?On 10/28/21, 2:08 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Steve Lisa"
>A A A A <[2][8]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
>A A A A [3][9]stevelisa at patentit.com> wrote:
>A A A A AA AA AA A We drained the oil and there was no bearing
material.AA
>A A A A Classic rod cap
>A A A A AA AA AA A failure.AAA It appears our old crap motor
builder
>A A A A replaced our SCAT
>A A A A AA AA AA A crank and rods with crap stuff, and kept the
good
>A A A A stuff.AAA From we can
>A A A A AA AA AA A tell, the rod end bolt was loose and fell out.
So, the
>A A A A momentary oil
>A A A A AA AA AA A surge was likely just turning on the accusump
(but we
>A A A A have never seen
>A A A A AA AA AA A 120 PSI from the accusum ).AAA It also
explains no
>A A A A warning...I had good
>A A A A AA AA AA A oil pressure and temps.AAA So, quite simply,
as far as we
>A A A A can tell, one
>A A A A AA AA AA A rod bolt fell out.A A
>A A A A AA AA AA A We cannot run dry sump.A
>A A A A AA AA AA A A This car has been a dream to race for the
last 3-4
>A A A A weekends.AAA We we
>A A A A AA AA AA A are now seeing the last of our weak points from
poor
>A A A A earlier choices.
>A A A A AA AA AA A So we are leaving our plumbing the same, it is
all worked
>A A A A great. The
>A A A A AA AA AA A only issue is to get a properly built motor in
there. We
>A A A A still do have
>A A A A AA AA AA A to work out where the low pressure is for our
oil cooler.
>A A A A We will do
>A A A A AA AA AA A that with cameras and arrow testing at INDE
Motorsports
>A A A A when we get a
>A A A A AA AA AA A chance.
>A A A A AA AA AA A We are actually a bit relieved that it was an
>A A A A instantaneous rod end
>A A A A AA AA AA A failure and not something that either Tony or I
missed
>A A A A with gauges etc.
>A A A A AA AA AA A On Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 13:57 Rich Hoppe
>A A A A <[1][4][10]richbhoppe at gmail.com> wrote:
>A A A A AA AA AA AA A I have a Cleveland with a titan oil pump.
It has two
>A A A A external oil
>A A A A AA AA AA AA A return lines.AAA One that balances the air
pressure
>A A A A from the top of
>A A A A AA AA AA AA A the motor to the bottom in the oil pan.AAA
The other
>A A A A picks up excess
>A A A A AA AA AA AA A oil in the valve cover to the oil pan.
>A A A A AA AA AA AA A I ran the silver state at 6200 rpms almost
constant.
>A A A A AA AA AA AA A Might be an oiling option to look at.
>A A A A AA AA AA AA A Rich
>A A A A AA AA AA AA A Sent from my iPhone
>A A A A AA AA AA AA A > On Oct 28, 2021, at 10:21 AM, Larry Stock
>A A A A AA AA AA AA A <[2][5][11]larrys at panteraparts.com> wrote:
>A A A A AA AA AA AA A >
>A A A A AA AA AA AA A > i>>?NO, but it is now
>A A A A AA AA AA AA A > LOL
>A A A A AA AA AA AA A >
>A A A A AA AA AA AA A >
>A A A A AA AA AA AA A > i>>?On 10/28/21, 10:10 AM, "DeTomaso on
behalf of
>A A A A Daniel C Jones"
>A A A A AA AA AA AA A
<[3][6][12]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on
>A A A A behalf of
>A A A A AA AA AA AA A [4][7][13]daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>A A A A AA AA AA AA A >
>A A A A AA AA AA AA A >AAA AAA AAA A Are you permitted to run
a dry sump?
>A A A A AA AA AA AA A >AAA AAA AAA A Dan Jones
>A A A A AA AA AA AA A >
>A A A A AA AA AA AA A >AAA AAA AAA A On Thu, Oct 28, 2021 at
11:44 AM Steve
>A A A A Lisa
>A A A A AA AA AA AA A <[1][5][8][14]stevelisa at patentit.com>
>A A A A AA AA AA AA A >AAA AAA AAA A wrote:
>A A A A AA AA AA AA A >
>A A A A AA AA AA AA A >AAA AAA AAA AAA A AAAA A Trying to
share from my
>A A A A phone.AAAAA Not sure it
>A A A A AA AA AA AA A will work.A
>A A A A AA AA AA AA A >AAA AAA AAA AAA A AAAA A
>A A A A AA AA AA A
>A A A A A
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>A A A A AA AA AA A 2. mailto:[25][31]larrys at panteraparts.com
>A A A A AA AA AA A 3.
mailto:[26][32]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
>A A A A AA AA AA A 4. mailto:[27][33]daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com
>A A A A AA AA AA A 5. mailto:[28][34]stevelisa at patentit.com
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>A A 6. [57]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
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References
1. mailto:reillyms at live.com
2. mailto:scott at scottmeadphotography.com
3. mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com
4. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
5. mailto:richbhoppe at gmail.com
6. mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com
7. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
8. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
9. mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com
10. mailto:richbhoppe at gmail.com
11. mailto:larrys at panteraparts.com
12. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
13. mailto:daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com
14. mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com
15. https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphotos.app.goo.gl%2FohsXQrkr2TcyqSv49A&data=04%7C01%7C%7C767df5ca480a4c6609ed08d99a4cc623%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637710476820054543%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=TGMObZFWvPjZC9%2BSYXtKLJZJnvU0NBYNKyGah9I7L%2Bo%3D&reserved=0
16. https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphotos.app.goo.gl%2FohsXQrkr2TcyqSv49&data=04%7C01%7C%7C767df5ca480a4c6609ed08d99a4cc623%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637710476820054543%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=CrTNw%2FSTOGFjmtNsGZ6ooYw6yTsIiwdk74yppqW%2Bih0%3D&reserved=0
17. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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