[DeTomaso] Rod end/cap thru pan...
Steve Lisa
stevelisa at patentit.com
Thu Oct 28 15:45:10 EDT 2021
It was a Ford Motorsports Windsor crate 427 race motor that we originally
bought as a spare for our Panoz. It was dyno'd but only raced once.
Essentially newly broken in.
When we went to all aluminum motors for the Panoz, we built two: one
sprint motor and one endurance motor. We didn't need the iron block race
motor any more as a spare. So, we removed the Windsor heads and put on
new Aluminum Cleveland heads, to build our race Clevor for the Pantera.
The only way we would be missing the original bottom end in our iron block
Ford factory motorsport Windsor is if the motor builder that built the
Clevor for some reason decided it was best for his customer (me) to
"donate" brand a new Ford Motorsports bottom end for crap substitute parts
and not tell us.
That news just really makes me shake my head. Who would do that????? It
never occurred to me ...
On Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 14:55 Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com> wrote:
> You said "Cleavor". Is this an aftermarket W based block?
>
> On 10/28/21, 2:08 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Steve Lisa" <
> detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
> stevelisa at patentit.com> wrote:
>
> We drained the oil and there was no bearing material.A Classic rod
> cap
> failure.A It appears our old crap motor builder replaced our SCAT
> crank and rods with crap stuff, and kept the good stuff.A From we
> can
> tell, the rod end bolt was loose and fell out. So, the momentary oil
> surge was likely just turning on the accusump (but we have never
> seen
> 120 PSI from the accusum ).A It also explains no warning...I had
> good
> oil pressure and temps.A So, quite simply, as far as we can tell,
> one
> rod bolt fell out.A A
> We cannot run dry sump.A
> A This car has been a dream to race for the last 3-4 weekends.A We
> we
> are now seeing the last of our weak points from poor earlier
> choices.
> So we are leaving our plumbing the same, it is all worked great. The
> only issue is to get a properly built motor in there. We still do
> have
> to work out where the low pressure is for our oil cooler. We will do
> that with cameras and arrow testing at INDE Motorsports when we get
> a
> chance.
> We are actually a bit relieved that it was an instantaneous rod end
> failure and not something that either Tony or I missed with gauges
> etc.
>
> On Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 13:57 Rich Hoppe <[1]richbhoppe at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> I have a Cleveland with a titan oil pump. It has two external oil
> return lines.A One that balances the air pressure from the top of
> the motor to the bottom in the oil pan.A The other picks up
> excess
> oil in the valve cover to the oil pan.
> I ran the silver state at 6200 rpms almost constant.
> Might be an oiling option to look at.
> Rich
> Sent from my iPhone
> > On Oct 28, 2021, at 10:21 AM, Larry Stock
> <[2]larrys at panteraparts.com> wrote:
> >
> > i>>?NO, but it is now
> > LOL
> >
> >
> > i>>?On 10/28/21, 10:10 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Daniel C
> Jones"
> <[3]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
> [4]daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >A A A A Are you permitted to run a dry sump?
> >A A A A Dan Jones
> >
> >A A A A On Thu, Oct 28, 2021 at 11:44 AM Steve Lisa
> <[1][5]stevelisa at patentit.com>
> >A A A A wrote:
> >
> >A A A A A AA A Trying to share from my phone.AAA Not sure
> it
> will work.A
> >A A A A A AA A
> [1][2][6]https://photos.app.goo.gl/ohsXQrkr2TcyqSv49A
> >A A A A A References
> >A A A A A AA A 1.
> [3][7]https://photos.app.goo.gl/ohsXQrkr2TcyqSv49
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> 4. mailto:daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com
> 5. mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com
> 6. https://photos.app.goo.gl/ohsXQrkr2TcyqSv49A
> 7. https://photos.app.goo.gl/ohsXQrkr2TcyqSv49
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-------------- next part --------------
It was a Ford Motorsports Windsor crate 427 race motor that we
originally bought as a spare for our Panoz.A It was dyno'd but only
raced once. Essentially newly broken in.
When we went to all aluminum motors for the Panoz,A we built two: one
sprint motor and one endurance motor.A We didn't need the iron block
race motor any more as a spare.A So, weA removed the Windsor heads
and put on new Aluminum Cleveland heads, to build our race Clevor for
the Pantera.A A
The only way we would be missing the original bottom end in our iron
block Ford factory motorsport Windsor is if the motor builder that
built the Clevor for some reason decided it was best for his customer
(me) to "donate" brand a new Ford Motorsports bottom end for crap
substitute parts and not tell us.A A
That news just really makes me shake my head.A Who would do
that?????A It never occurred to me ...
On Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 14:55 Will Kooiman <[1]will.kooiman at gmail.com>
wrote:
You said "Cleavor".A Is this an aftermarket W based block?
i>>?On 10/28/21, 2:08 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Steve Lisa"
<[2]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
[3]stevelisa at patentit.com> wrote:
A A A A We drained the oil and there was no bearing material.AA
Classic rod cap
A A A A failure.AA It appears our old crap motor builder
replaced our SCAT
A A A A crank and rods with crap stuff, and kept the good
stuff.AA From we can
A A A A tell, the rod end bolt was loose and fell out. So, the
momentary oil
A A A A surge was likely just turning on the accusump (but we
have never seen
A A A A 120 PSI from the accusum ).AA It also explains no
warning...I had good
A A A A oil pressure and temps.AA So, quite simply, as far as we
can tell, one
A A A A rod bolt fell out.A A
A A A A We cannot run dry sump.A
A A A A A This car has been a dream to race for the last 3-4
weekends.AA We we
A A A A are now seeing the last of our weak points from poor
earlier choices.
A A A A So we are leaving our plumbing the same, it is all worked
great. The
A A A A only issue is to get a properly built motor in there. We
still do have
A A A A to work out where the low pressure is for our oil cooler.
We will do
A A A A that with cameras and arrow testing at INDE Motorsports
when we get a
A A A A chance.
A A A A We are actually a bit relieved that it was an
instantaneous rod end
A A A A failure and not something that either Tony or I missed
with gauges etc.
A A A A On Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 13:57 Rich Hoppe
<[1][4]richbhoppe at gmail.com> wrote:
A A A A A I have a Cleveland with a titan oil pump. It has two
external oil
A A A A A return lines.AA One that balances the air pressure
from the top of
A A A A A the motor to the bottom in the oil pan.AA The other
picks up excess
A A A A A oil in the valve cover to the oil pan.
A A A A A I ran the silver state at 6200 rpms almost constant.
A A A A A Might be an oiling option to look at.
A A A A A Rich
A A A A A Sent from my iPhone
A A A A A > On Oct 28, 2021, at 10:21 AM, Larry Stock
A A A A A <[2][5]larrys at panteraparts.com> wrote:
A A A A A >
A A A A A > i>>?NO, but it is now
A A A A A > LOL
A A A A A >
A A A A A >
A A A A A > i>>?On 10/28/21, 10:10 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of
Daniel C Jones"
A A A A A <[3][6]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on
behalf of
A A A A A [4][7]daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com> wrote:
A A A A A >
A A A A A >AA AA AA A Are you permitted to run a dry sump?
A A A A A >AA AA AA A Dan Jones
A A A A A >
A A A A A >AA AA AA A On Thu, Oct 28, 2021 at 11:44 AM Steve
Lisa
A A A A A <[1][5][8]stevelisa at patentit.com>
A A A A A >AA AA AA A wrote:
A A A A A >
A A A A A >AA AA AA AA A AAA A Trying to share from my
phone.AAAA Not sure it
A A A A A will work.A
A A A A A >AA AA AA AA A AAA A
A A A A
A [1][2][6][9]https://photos.app.goo.gl/ohsXQrkr2TcyqSv49A
A A A A A >AA AA AA AA A References
A A A A A >AA AA AA AA A AAA A 1.
A A A A A [3][7][10]https://photos.app.goo.gl/ohsXQrkr2TcyqSv49
A A A A A >AA AA AA AA A
_______________________________________________
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A A A A 6. [29]https://photos.app.goo.gl/ohsXQrkr2TcyqSv49A
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4. mailto:richbhoppe at gmail.com
5. mailto:larrys at panteraparts.com
6. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
7. mailto:daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com
8. mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com
9. https://photos.app.goo.gl/ohsXQrkr2TcyqSv49A
10. https://photos.app.goo.gl/ohsXQrkr2TcyqSv49
11. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
12. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
13. mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com
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28. mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com
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