[DeTomaso] Pictures of blown clutch from Portland
Julian Kift
julian_kift at hotmail.com
Mon Oct 11 19:46:16 EDT 2021
While out, remove the 3 studs each side that hold the transaxle mounts to the transaxle and replace them with metric socket head bolts, then you can simply unbolt the mounts from the transaxle and no tabs to overcome, that is the way my race car is setup. A little jack pressure under the rear of the engine is still beneficial to help clear the rear valance as you pull the transaxle back from the block.
The later (9000 series) cars had no tabs and used a removable mount, my '81 GT5 is that way and I think a couple folks have retrofitted that idea. I have also seen where the rear most tab is removed and a removeable bolt in one added by extending down to the cross member.
Julian
________________________________
From: Steve Lisa <stevelisa at patentit.com>
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 4:29 PM
To: Larry Stock <larrys at panteraparts.com>
Cc: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>; Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>; List DeTomaso Forum <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pictures of blown clutch from Portland
So, that is what Tony/KC determined -- we have to lift the rear of the engine, which then requires removing the mufflers/exhaust and some other things because we have no clearance to the heat shield we installed for the fuel cell. It may still be doable - but we will need some beer drinking and thought as we stare at the snowballing effect of lifting the engine to clear the transaxle mounting tabs.
We were believing rumors that the transaxle could be removed without removing anything else, and we are like "No, I don't think so, unless we are seriously missing something."
We will come up with something that makes it easier -- maybe redoing the tranny mounts.
Regards,
Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
The Law Offices of Lisa & Lesko, LLC
Email: SteveLisa at PatentIt.com
Direct: 480-442-0297
www.PatentIt.com<http://www.patentit.com/>
Scottsdale Office | P: 480.535.6656 | F: 480.535.6628 | A: 7689 East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
Chicago Office | P: 312.752.4357 | F: 312.896.5633 | A: 55 E. Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
This email is intended only for the recipient above and may contain confidential and privileged information. If you received this email in error please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me. Thank you.
On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 4:13 PM Larry Stock <larrys at panteraparts.com<mailto:larrys at panteraparts.com>> wrote:
You can bend the tabs back, but I prefer to lift the tail of the engine, or loosen the engine mounts if too tight and carefully jack up the rear of the oil pan to increase the pull angle clearance over the transaxle mounting tabs.
Larry
From: Steve Lisa <stevelisa at patentit.com<mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com>>
Date: Monday, October 11, 2021 at 4:06 PM
To: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com<mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com>>
Cc: Larry Stock <larrys at panteraparts.com<mailto:larrys at panteraparts.com>>, Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com<mailto:asajay at asajay.com>>, List DeTomaso Forum <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pictures of blown clutch from Portland
So, another issue we thought of was that, with the tranny mounts as they are, we would not be able to lift the transaxle enough (given the input shaft) to clear the tranny mounts without also unbolting and lifting the motor. But, I am guessing you all have not had an issue with that?
Regards,
Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
The Law Offices of Lisa & Lesko, LLC
Email: SteveLisa at PatentIt.com
Direct: 480-442-0297
www.PatentIt.com<http://www.patentit.com/>
Scottsdale Office | P: 480.535.6656 | F: 480.535.6628 | A: 7689 East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
Chicago Office | P: 312.752.4357 | F: 312.896.5633 | A: 55 E. Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
This email is intended only for the recipient above and may contain confidential and privileged information. If you received this email in error please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me. Thank you.
On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 4:02 PM Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com<mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com>> wrote:
If not already installed, you might want to put the short hose to the filter on a swivel fitting to avoid stressing the hose. Alternatively, you could install a no leak quick disconnect fitting to separate that line.
Julian
________________________________
From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com>> on behalf of Larry Stock <larrys at panteraparts.com<mailto:larrys at panteraparts.com>>
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 3:55 PM
To: Steve Lisa <stevelisa at patentit.com<mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com>>; Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com<mailto:asajay at asajay.com>>
Cc: List DeTomaso Forum <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pictures of blown clutch from Portland
It looks like your almost there Steve, just dismount it and lay it over the top of the Quarter panel. As an also, put a fan on it, as there is not much air circulation in that location without a inside thru the cooler to outside air flow from a electric fan.
12027P Fan assy air cond. Condenser, Maridyne 10" 950 CFM $180.00
Larry
On 10/11/21, 3:46 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Steve Lisa" <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of stevelisa at patentit.com<mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com>> wrote:
Hmmm.... do you think that will work here?A See our cooler setup:
* [1]https://photos.app.goo.gl/RjToSEDuk79fpoVA8
Regardless, we should make the cooler more easily removed if that saves
us 3-4 hours of additional work.
Regards,A
Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
The Law Offices of Lisa & Lesko, LLC
Email: SteveLisa at PatentIt.comA
Direct: 480-442-0297
[2]www.PatentIt.com<http://www.PatentIt.com>
Scottsdale OfficeA |A P:A 480.535.6656A |A A F:A 480.535.6628A
|A A A:A 7689 East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
Chicago OfficeA |A P: 312.752.4357A |A F: 312.896.5633A |A A: 55 E.
Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
This email is intended only for the recipient above and may contain
confidential and privileged information. If you received this email in
error please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me. Thank
you.
On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 3:12 PM Asa Jay Laughton <[3]asajay at asajay.com<mailto:asajay at asajay.com>>
wrote:
To remove transaxle, unbolt the cooler from body and flip it over a
fender ( use a fender cover ).A Remove the rear grill between the
exhausts and that will give you the clearance without having to
disconnect any lines.
:)
Asa A Jay
Sent using Jedi Mind Tricks
On Oct 11, 2021, at 08:42, Steve Lisa <[4]stevelisa at patentit.com<mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com>>
wrote:
i>>?
The friction material actually disintegrated and was all over the place
- mostly blown out the inspection window at the top.A It was a lot of
friction material -- so it looked and ran fine until all of sudden it
didn't.A Since it is Asa Jay's original clutch, it served its life
well.A A
With as much HP/Torque we are running, we surely needed it to be a more
regular maintenance item.A We had already replaced it with the
Centerforce for the Cleveland, and then we pulled the Cleveland and
installed the Clevor, we went with the motor-builder had assembled on
the CLEVOR -- which was the old McCleod.A I don't think we intended it
to be in there very long.A But, the CLEVOR is running well and suiting
these early races, so we left it in -- too long,A obviously!A A
BTW - we still haven't figured out how to remove the transaxle assembly
to clear theA coolers without completelyA unbolting and lifting the
motor.A I know it is supposedly done, but we can't figure it out.A A
Regards,A
Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
The Law Offices of Lisa & Lesko, LLC
Email: SteveLisa at PatentIt.comA
Direct: 480-442-0297
[5]www.PatentIt.com<http://www.PatentIt.com>
Scottsdale OfficeA |A P:A 480.535.6656A |A A F:A 480.535.6628A
|A A A:A 7689 East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
Chicago OfficeA |A P: 312.752.4357A |A F: 312.896.5633A |A A: 55 E.
Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
This email is intended only for the recipient above and may contain
confidential and privileged information. If you received this email in
error please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me. Thank
you.
On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 8:06 AM Asa Jay Laughton <[6]asajay at asajay.com<mailto:asajay at asajay.com>>
wrote:
Looks like the McLeod I put in back in 2012.A Looks like friction
material completely wore off one side.A All the springs are still
in place.A
You do know that the friction material on a pantera clutch disk is
slightly thinner than average?A Racing as hard as you and Tony do,
it may be a good idea to check it often.A Convenient to have an
inspection hole at the top of the bell housing.
:)
What did you replace it with?
Asa Jay
Sent using Jedi Mind Tricks
> On Oct 11, 2021, at 07:04, Steve Lisa <[7]stevelisa at patentit.com<mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com>>
wrote:
>
> i>>?A A For those interested, here is a link of the pictures of
our blown up
>A A clutch assembly from the Portland race.AA A
>A A A * [1][8]https://photos.app.goo.gl/cUh1qNerQ5JUfWWh7
>
>A A Regards,A
>A A Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
>A A The Law Offices of Lisa & Lesko, LLC
>A A Email: SteveLisa at PatentIt.comA
>A A Direct: 480-442-0297
>A A [2][9]www.PatentIt.com<http://www.PatentIt.com>
>A A Scottsdale OfficeA |A P:A 480.535.6656AA |A A F:A
480.535.6628A
>A A |A A A:A 7689 East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ
85260
>
>A A Chicago OfficeA |A P: 312.752.4357AA |AA F: 312.896.5633AA
|AA A: 55 E.
>A A Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
>A A This email is intended only for the recipient above and may
contain
>A A confidential and privileged information. If you received this
email in
>A A error please destroy it and indicate such by return email to
me. Thank
>A A you.
>
> References
>
>A A 1. [10]https://photos.app.goo.gl/cUh1qNerQ5JUfWWh7
>A A 2. [11]http://www.patentit.com/
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
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2. http://www.patentit.com/
3. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
4. mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com
5. http://www.patentit.com/
6. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
7. mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com
8. https://photos.app.goo.gl/cUh1qNerQ5JUfWWh7
9. http://www.PatentIt.com/
10. https://photos.app.goo.gl/cUh1qNerQ5JUfWWh7
11. http://www.patentit.com/
12. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
13. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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-------------- next part --------------
While out, remove the 3 studs each side that hold the transaxle mounts
to the transaxle and replace them with metric socket head bolts, then
you can simply unbolt the mounts from the transaxle and no tabs to
overcome, that is the way my race car is setup. A little jack pressure
under the rear of the engine is still beneficial to help clear the rear
valance as you pull the transaxle back from the block.
The later (9000 series) cars had no tabs and used a removable mount, my
'81 GT5 is that way and I think a couple folks have retrofitted that
idea. I have also seen where the rear most tab is removed and a
removeable bolt in one added by extending down to the cross member.
Julian
__________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Lisa <stevelisa at patentit.com>
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 4:29 PM
To: Larry Stock <larrys at panteraparts.com>
Cc: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>; Asa Jay Laughton
<asajay at asajay.com>; List DeTomaso Forum
<detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pictures of blown clutch from Portland
So, that is what Tony/KC determined -- we have to lift the rear of the
engine, which then requires removing the mufflers/exhaust and some
other things because we have no clearance to the heat shield we
installed for the fuel cell. It may still be doable - but we will need
some beer drinking and thought as we stare at the snowballing effect of
lifting the engine to clear the transaxle mounting tabs.
We were believing rumors that the transaxle could be removed without
removing anything else, and we are like "No, I don't think so, unless
we are seriously missing something."
We will come up with something that makes it easier -- maybe redoing
the tranny mounts.
Regards,
Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
The Law Offices of Lisa & Lesko, LLC
Email: SteveLisa at PatentIt.com
Direct: 480-442-0297
[1]www.PatentIt.com
Scottsdale Office | P: 480.535.6656 | F: 480.535.6628 | A: 7689
East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
Chicago Office | P: 312.752.4357 | F: 312.896.5633 | A: 55 E.
Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
This email is intended only for the recipient above and may contain
confidential and privileged information. If you received this email in
error please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me. Thank
you.
On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 4:13 PM Larry Stock
<[2]larrys at panteraparts.com> wrote:
You can bend the tabs back, but I prefer to lift the tail of the
engine, or loosen the engine mounts if too tight and carefully jack up
the rear of the oil pan to increase the pull angle clearance over the
transaxle mounting tabs.
Larry
From: Steve Lisa <[3]stevelisa at patentit.com>
Date: Monday, October 11, 2021 at 4:06 PM
To: Julian Kift <[4]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
Cc: Larry Stock <[5]larrys at panteraparts.com>, Asa Jay Laughton
<[6]asajay at asajay.com>, List DeTomaso Forum
<[7]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pictures of blown clutch from Portland
So, another issue we thought of was that, with the tranny mounts as
they are, we would not be able to lift the transaxle enough (given the
input shaft) to clear the tranny mounts without also unbolting and
lifting the motor. But, I am guessing you all have not had an issue
with that?
Regards,
Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
The Law Offices of Lisa & Lesko, LLC
Email: SteveLisa at PatentIt.com
Direct: 480-442-0297
[8]www.PatentIt.com
Scottsdale Office | P: 480.535.6656 | F: 480.535.6628 | A: 7689
East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
Chicago Office | P: 312.752.4357 | F: 312.896.5633 | A: 55 E.
Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
This email is intended only for the recipient above and may contain
confidential and privileged information. If you received this email in
error please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me. Thank
you.
On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 4:02 PM Julian Kift
<[9]julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:
If not already installed, you might want to put the short hose to the
filter on a swivel fitting to avoid stressing the hose. Alternatively,
you could install a no leak quick disconnect fitting to separate that
line.
Julian
_______________________________________________________________________
From: DeTomaso <[10]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf
of Larry Stock <[11]larrys at panteraparts.com>
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 3:55 PM
To: Steve Lisa <[12]stevelisa at patentit.com>; Asa Jay Laughton
<[13]asajay at asajay.com>
Cc: List DeTomaso Forum <[14]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pictures of blown clutch from Portland
It looks like your almost there Steve, just dismount it and lay it over
the top of the Quarter panel. As an also, put a fan on it, as there is
not much air circulation in that location without a inside thru the
cooler to outside air flow from a electric fan.
12027P Fan assy air cond. Condenser, Maridyne 10" 950 CFM
$180.00
Larry
On 10/11/21, 3:46 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Steve Lisa"
<[15]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
[16]stevelisa at patentit.com> wrote:
Hmmm.... do you think that will work here?A See our cooler
setup:
* [1][17]https://photos.app.goo.gl/RjToSEDuk79fpoVA8
Regardless, we should make the cooler more easily removed if
that saves
us 3-4 hours of additional work.
Regards,A
Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
The Law Offices of Lisa & Lesko, LLC
Email: SteveLisa at PatentIt.comA
Direct: 480-442-0297
[2][18]www.PatentIt.com
Scottsdale OfficeA |A P:A 480.535.6656A |A A F:A 480.535.6628A
|A A A:A 7689 East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
Chicago OfficeA |A P: 312.752.4357A |A F: 312.896.5633A |A
A: 55 E.
Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
This email is intended only for the recipient above and may
contain
confidential and privileged information. If you received this
email in
error please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me.
Thank
you.
On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 3:12 PM Asa Jay Laughton
<[3][19]asajay at asajay.com>
wrote:
To remove transaxle, unbolt the cooler from body and flip it
over a
fender ( use a fender cover ).A Remove the rear grill between
the
exhausts and that will give you the clearance without having to
disconnect any lines.
:)
Asa A Jay
Sent using Jedi Mind Tricks
On Oct 11, 2021, at 08:42, Steve Lisa
<[4][20]stevelisa at patentit.com>
wrote:
i>>?
The friction material actually disintegrated and was all over
the place
- mostly blown out the inspection window at the top.A It was a
lot of
friction material -- so it looked and ran fine until all of
sudden it
didn't.A Since it is Asa Jay's original clutch, it served its
life
well.A A
With as much HP/Torque we are running, we surely needed it to be
a more
regular maintenance item.A We had already replaced it with the
Centerforce for the Cleveland, and then we pulled the Cleveland
and
installed the Clevor, we went with the motor-builder had
assembled on
the CLEVOR -- which was the old McCleod.A I don't think we
intended it
to be in there very long.A But, the CLEVOR is running well and
suiting
these early races, so we left it in -- too long,A obviously!A A
BTW - we still haven't figured out how to remove the transaxle
assembly
to clear theA coolers without completelyA unbolting and lifting
the
motor.A I know it is supposedly done, but we can't figure it
out.A A
Regards,A
Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
The Law Offices of Lisa & Lesko, LLC
Email: SteveLisa at PatentIt.comA
Direct: 480-442-0297
[5][21]www.PatentIt.com
Scottsdale OfficeA |A P:A 480.535.6656A |A A F:A 480.535.6628A
|A A A:A 7689 East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
Chicago OfficeA |A P: 312.752.4357A |A F: 312.896.5633A |A
A: 55 E.
Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
This email is intended only for the recipient above and may
contain
confidential and privileged information. If you received this
email in
error please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me.
Thank
you.
On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 8:06 AM Asa Jay Laughton
<[6][22]asajay at asajay.com>
wrote:
Looks like the McLeod I put in back in 2012.A Looks like
friction
material completely wore off one side.A All the springs are
still
in place.A
You do know that the friction material on a pantera clutch
disk is
slightly thinner than average?A Racing as hard as you and
Tony do,
it may be a good idea to check it often.A Convenient to have
an
inspection hole at the top of the bell housing.
:)
What did you replace it with?
Asa Jay
Sent using Jedi Mind Tricks
> On Oct 11, 2021, at 07:04, Steve Lisa
<[7][23]stevelisa at patentit.com>
wrote:
>
> i>>?A A For those interested, here is a link of the
pictures of
our blown up
>A A clutch assembly from the Portland race.AA A
>A A A *
[1][8][24]https://photos.app.goo.gl/cUh1qNerQ5JUfWWh7
>
>A A Regards,A
>A A Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
>A A The Law Offices of Lisa & Lesko, LLC
>A A Email: SteveLisa at PatentIt.comA
>A A Direct: 480-442-0297
>A A [2][9][25]www.PatentIt.com
>A A Scottsdale OfficeA |A P:A 480.535.6656AA |A A F:A
480.535.6628A
>A A |A A A:A 7689 East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale,
AZ
85260
>
>A A Chicago OfficeA |A P: 312.752.4357AA |AA F:
312.896.5633AA
|AA A: 55 E.
>A A Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
>A A This email is intended only for the recipient above and
may
contain
>A A confidential and privileged information. If you received
this
email in
>A A error please destroy it and indicate such by return
email to
me. Thank
>A A you.
>
> References
>
>A A 1. [10][26]https://photos.app.goo.gl/cUh1qNerQ5JUfWWh7
>A A 2. [11][27]http://www.patentit.com/
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [12][28]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>
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> To manage your subscription (change email address,
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maintain an
archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
References
1. [30]https://photos.app.goo.gl/RjToSEDuk79fpoVA8
2. [31]http://www.patentit.com/
3. [32]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
4. [33]mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com
5. [34]http://www.patentit.com/
6. [35]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
7. [36]mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com
8. [37]https://photos.app.goo.gl/cUh1qNerQ5JUfWWh7
9. [38]http://www.PatentIt.com/
10. [39]https://photos.app.goo.gl/cUh1qNerQ5JUfWWh7
11. [40]http://www.patentit.com/
12. [41]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
13. [42]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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References
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2. mailto:larrys at panteraparts.com
3. mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com
4. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
5. mailto:larrys at panteraparts.com
6. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
7. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
8. http://www.patentit.com/
9. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
10. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
11. mailto:larrys at panteraparts.com
12. mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com
13. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
14. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
15. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
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