[DeTomaso] Gruppo 4

jderyke at aol.com jderyke at aol.com
Wed Aug 4 16:16:30 EDT 2021


FWIW, there are two factory built Gr-3s in the U.S. (one in British Columbia, the other in So-Cal). As well as Guy Trigaux's factory GR-4 in N Carolina and Les Gray's factory GT-4 in So-Cal. Considering that there were only 34 Gr-3s and 14 GR-4/GT-4s ever factory-built, we have a high proportion of these rare racers 'locally'.  Note also they are all owned by POCA members....   The other 12 GR-4s are scattered all over the world- one is still in Australia with its original owner from the '70s, I believe. 
Steve, do you have the original homologation papers for the Pantera? Makes quite interesting reading and maybe could settle arguments with some Vintage inspectors. They're all in the POCA Archives along with the official 14 pg Gr-3/GR-4 Parts Lists. Note to OEM fanatics: the homologated factory roll cage may be desirable for collectors of static displays but if you want to drive your racer as it should be driven, it's no longer an acceptable safety part in the U.S. The cage's welded tube wall thickness is 0.060" while the SCCA requires 0.090" nowadays. Not sure about European rules.


-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Lisa <stevelisa at patentit.com>
To: Guy Trigaux <gdt2860 at gmail.com>
Cc: Patrick HALS <patrickhals at gmail.com>; Claude Dubois <claudeduboisbelgium at gmail.com>; List DeTomaso Forum <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>; Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>; rimovp at gmail.com <rimovp at gmail.com>
Sent: Wed, Aug 4, 2021 8:53 am
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Gruppo 4

  Guy,
  If you are racing in the US in the coming months, please keep me posted
  on your plans. Perhaps we can get a common weekend on our
  calendars.
  Have you considered the HSR Classic 24 at Daytona -- coming up in late
  October. We are planning to bring two cars: the Pantera for the HSR
  Sprint races and a Panoz Esperanta GT2 for the 24-hour.  Any chance
  you can make it?
  Regards,A
  Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
  The Law Offices of Lisa & Lesko, LLC
  Email: SteveLisa at PatentIt.comA
  Direct: 480-442-0297
  [1]www.PatentIt.com
  Scottsdale Office | P: 480.535.6656,  F: 480.535.6628
   7689 East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ 85260

  Chicago OfficeA |A P: 312.752.4357A  |A  F: 312.896.5633A  |A  A: 55 E.
  Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
  This email is intended only for the recipient above and may contain
  confidential and privileged information. If you received this email in
  error please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me. Thank
  you.

  Virus-free. [2]www.avg.com

  On Tue, Aug 3, 2021 at 6:17 PM Guy Trigaux <[3]gdt2860 at gmail.com>
  wrote:

  On Tue, Aug 3, 2021 at 2:49 PM Patrick HALS <[4]patrickhals at gmail.com>
  wrote:

  Honestly, Steve, if you'd race over here with a Pantera in the EU
  classic series, you would quickly realize that self derision is not
  very common, by far.A
  Especially with some ( not all, luckily ) French and German
  drivers...A
  I know I will suffer after these top secret revelations, but that's how
  I feelA  !
  Yet, I'll be so glad to race again with those gentlemen, and show them
  my red lights :>))
  Best !A
  Pat
  Candy 2862
  ADA 9628

  LeA mar. 3 aoA>>t 2021 A A 20:19, Steve Lisa
  <[5]stevelisa at patentit.com> a A(c)critA :

  Gotta love peopleA with a great talent for self-derision -- if you race
  cars, it's pretty much a requirement.
  Regards,A
  Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
  The Law Offices of Lisa & Lesko, LLC
  Email: SteveLisa at PatentIt.comA
  Direct: 480-442-0297
  [6]www.PatentIt.com
  Scottsdale OfficeA |A P:A 480.535.6656A  |A A F:A 480.535.6628A
  |A A A:A 7689 East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ 85260

  Chicago OfficeA |A P: 312.752.4357A  |A  F: 312.896.5633A  |A  A: 55 E.
  Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
  This email is intended only for the recipient above and may contain
  confidential and privileged information. If you received this email in
  error please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me. Thank
  you.

  Virus-free. [7]www.avg.com

  On Tue, Aug 3, 2021 at 11:16 AM alessandro1977621
  <[8]patrickhals at gmail.com> wrote:

  Yes, that's the one, 2860..
  Finished Le Mans twice, in 72 and 75
  Claude Dubois and Guy Trigaux can rell you stories about their car for
  hours.
  Just ask, they love it, and both are great story tellers, with a
  fantastic sense of humor, skills and self derision
  Pat
  Candy 2862
  Ada 9628
  EnvoyA(c) depuis mon tA(c)lA(c)phone

  -------- Message original --------
  DeA : Steve Lisa <[9]stevelisa at patentit.com>
  DateA : mar. 3 aoA>>t 2021 A  19:58
  AA : Patrick HALS <[10]patrickhals at gmail.com>
  CcA : List DeTomaso Forum <[11]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>, Mike
  Drew <[12]MikeLDrew at aol.com>, [13]rimovp at gmail.com, Guy & Denise
  Trigaux <[14]gdt2860 at gmail.com>
  ObjetA : Re: [DeTomaso] Gruppo 4

  I found this today
  --A [15]https://www.facebook.com/groups/893004427530930/posts/189880632
  6950730/
  Regards,A
  Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
  The Law Offices of Lisa & Lesko, LLC
  Email: SteveLisa at PatentIt.comA
  Direct: 480-442-0297
  [16]www.PatentIt.com
  Scottsdale OfficeA |A P:A 480.535.6656A  |A A F:A 480.535.6628A
  |A A A:A 7689 East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ 85260

  Chicago OfficeA |A P: 312.752.4357A  |A  F: 312.896.5633A  |A  A: 55 E.
  Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
  This email is intended only for the recipient above and may contain
  confidential and privileged information. If you received this email in
  error please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me. Thank
  you.

  Virus-free. [17]www.avg.com

  On Tue, Aug 3, 2021 at 10:32 AM Patrick HALS
  <[18]patrickhals at gmail.com> wrote:

    A  A Hi all,A
    A  A I think it must be VIN 2860, one of 14 factoryA cars, which
    was, in
    A  A period, belonging to the Belgian team " Team Willeme".A
    A  A ThisA car is now the property of Guy Trigaux, and in immaculate
    A  A condition.A  >>>A  I bought the car from Team WillemeA
    December 15 - 1977 . Arrived late in the BeNeLux GR.2 to Gr .5 --
    1978 Championship due to complete rebuild of the car . Same
    Championship in 1979 : 1st in Gr .4 at the end of the season and 2nd
    in the General Classification ( won by a 935 ) . IA  have enjoyed
    the car at VIR , Road Atlanta andA  Roebling RoadA  hopA(R)ng to
    "test " the new pavement of CMP one of the next months ...A A
    A  A Patrick
    A  A Candy 2862
    A  A ADA 9628
    _______________________________________________
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  12. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
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-------------- next part --------------
   FWIW, there are two factory built Gr-3s in the U.S. (one in British
   Columbia, the other in So-Cal). As well as Guy Trigaux's factory GR-4
   in N Carolina and Les Gray's factory GT-4 in So-Cal. Considering that
   there were only 34 Gr-3s and 14 GR-4/GT-4s ever factory-built, we have
   a high proportion of these rare racers 'locally'.  Note also they are
   all owned by POCA members....   The other 12 GR-4s are scattered all
   over the world- one is still in Australia with its original owner from
   the '70s, I believe.
   Steve, do you have the original homologation papers for the Pantera?
   Makes quite interesting reading and maybe could settle arguments with
   some Vintage inspectors. They're all in the POCA Archives along with
   the official 14 pg Gr-3/GR-4 Parts Lists. Note to OEM fanatics: the
   homologated factory roll cage may be desirable for collectors of static
   displays but if you want to drive your racer as it should be driven,
   it's no longer an acceptable safety part in the U.S. The cage's welded
   tube wall thickness is 0.060" while the SCCA requires 0.090" nowadays.
   Not sure about European rules.
   -----Original Message-----
   From: Steve Lisa <stevelisa at patentit.com>
   To: Guy Trigaux <gdt2860 at gmail.com>
   Cc: Patrick HALS <patrickhals at gmail.com>; Claude Dubois
   <claudeduboisbelgium at gmail.com>; List DeTomaso Forum
   <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>; Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>;
   rimovp at gmail.com <rimovp at gmail.com>
   Sent: Wed, Aug 4, 2021 8:53 am
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Gruppo 4
     Guy,
     If you are racing in the US in the coming months, please keep me
   posted
     on your plans. Perhaps we can get a common weekend on our
     calendars.
     Have you considered the HSR Classic 24 at Daytona -- coming up in
   late
     October. We are planning to bring two cars: the Pantera for the HSR
     Sprint races and a Panoz Esperanta GT2 for the 24-hour.  Any chance
     you can make it?
     Regards,A
     Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
     The Law Offices of Lisa & Lesko, LLC
     Email: [1]SteveLisa at PatentIt.comA
     Direct: 480-442-0297
     [1]www.PatentIt.com
     Scottsdale Office | P: 480.535.6656,  F: 480.535.6628
      7689 East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
     Chicago OfficeA |A P: 312.752.4357A  |A  F: 312.896.5633A  |A  A: 55
   E.
     Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
     This email is intended only for the recipient above and may contain
     confidential and privileged information. If you received this email
   in
     error please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me.
   Thank
     you.
     Virus-free. [2]www.avg.com
     On Tue, Aug 3, 2021 at 6:17 PM Guy Trigaux <[3][2]gdt2860 at gmail.com>
     wrote:
     On Tue, Aug 3, 2021 at 2:49 PM Patrick HALS
   <[4][3]patrickhals at gmail.com>
     wrote:
     Honestly, Steve, if you'd race over here with a Pantera in the EU
     classic series, you would quickly realize that self derision is not
     very common, by far.A
     Especially with some ( not all, luckily ) French and German
     drivers...A
     I know I will suffer after these top secret revelations, but that's
   how
     I feelA  !
     Yet, I'll be so glad to race again with those gentlemen, and show
   them
     my red lights :>))
     Best !A
     Pat
     Candy 2862
     ADA 9628
     LeA mar. 3 aoA>>t 2021 A A 20:19, Steve Lisa
     <[5][4]stevelisa at patentit.com> a A(c)critA :
     Gotta love peopleA with a great talent for self-derision -- if you
   race
     cars, it's pretty much a requirement.
     Regards,A
     Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
     The Law Offices of Lisa & Lesko, LLC
     Email: [5]SteveLisa at PatentIt.comA
     Direct: 480-442-0297
     [6]www.PatentIt.com
     Scottsdale OfficeA |A P:A 480.535.6656A  |A A F:A 480.535.6628A
     |A A A:A 7689 East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
     Chicago OfficeA |A P: 312.752.4357A  |A  F: 312.896.5633A  |A  A: 55
   E.
     Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
     This email is intended only for the recipient above and may contain
     confidential and privileged information. If you received this email
   in
     error please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me.
   Thank
     you.
     Virus-free. [7]www.avg.com
     On Tue, Aug 3, 2021 at 11:16 AM alessandro1977621
     <[8][6]patrickhals at gmail.com> wrote:
     Yes, that's the one, 2860..
     Finished Le Mans twice, in 72 and 75
     Claude Dubois and Guy Trigaux can rell you stories about their car
   for
     hours.
     Just ask, they love it, and both are great story tellers, with a
     fantastic sense of humor, skills and self derision
     Pat
     Candy 2862
     Ada 9628
     EnvoyA(c) depuis mon tA(c)lA(c)phone
     -------- Message original --------
     DeA : Steve Lisa <[9][7]stevelisa at patentit.com>
     DateA : mar. 3 aoA>>t 2021 A  19:58
     AA : Patrick HALS <[10][8]patrickhals at gmail.com>
     CcA : List DeTomaso Forum <[11][9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>,
   Mike
     Drew <[12][10]MikeLDrew at aol.com>, [13][11]rimovp at gmail.com, Guy &
   Denise
     Trigaux <[14][12]gdt2860 at gmail.com>
     ObjetA : Re: [DeTomaso] Gruppo 4
     I found this today
     --A
   [15][13]https://www.facebook.com/groups/893004427530930/posts/189880632
     6950730/
     Regards,A
     Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
     The Law Offices of Lisa & Lesko, LLC
     Email: [14]SteveLisa at PatentIt.comA
     Direct: 480-442-0297
     [16]www.PatentIt.com
     Scottsdale OfficeA |A P:A 480.535.6656A  |A A F:A 480.535.6628A
     |A A A:A 7689 East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
     Chicago OfficeA |A P: 312.752.4357A  |A  F: 312.896.5633A  |A  A: 55
   E.
     Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
     This email is intended only for the recipient above and may contain
     confidential and privileged information. If you received this email
   in
     error please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me.
   Thank
     you.
     Virus-free. [17]www.avg.com
     On Tue, Aug 3, 2021 at 10:32 AM Patrick HALS
     <[18][15]patrickhals at gmail.com> wrote:
       A  A Hi all,A
       A  A I think it must be VIN 2860, one of 14 factoryA cars, which
       was, in
       A  A period, belonging to the Belgian team " Team Willeme".A
       A  A ThisA car is now the property of Guy Trigaux, and in
   immaculate
       A  A condition.A  >>>A  I bought the car from Team WillemeA
       December 15 - 1977 . Arrived late in the BeNeLux GR.2 to Gr .5 --
       1978 Championship due to complete rebuild of the car . Same
       Championship in 1979 : 1st in Gr .4 at the end of the season and
   2nd
       in the General Classification ( won by a 935 ) . IA  have enjoyed
       the car at VIR , Road Atlanta andA  Roebling RoadA  hopA(R)ng to
       "test " the new pavement of CMP one of the next months ...A A
       A  A Patrick
       A  A Candy 2862
       A  A ADA 9628
       _______________________________________________
       Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
       Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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References

   1. mailto:SteveLisa at PatentIt.comA
   2. mailto:gdt2860 at gmail.com
   3. mailto:patrickhals at gmail.com
   4. mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com
   5. mailto:SteveLisa at PatentIt.comA
   6. mailto:patrickhals at gmail.com
   7. mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com
   8. mailto:patrickhals at gmail.com
   9. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  10. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  11. mailto:rimovp at gmail.com
  12. mailto:gdt2860 at gmail.com
  13. https://www.facebook.com/groups/893004427530930/posts/189880632
  14. mailto:SteveLisa at PatentIt.comA
  15. mailto:patrickhals at gmail.com
  16. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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  22. mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com
  23. http://www.patentit.com/
  24. http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail
  25. mailto:patrickhals at gmail.com
  26. mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com
  27. mailto:patrickhals at gmail.com
  28. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  29. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  30. mailto:rimovp at gmail.com
  31. mailto:gdt2860 at gmail.com
  32. https://www.facebook.com/groups/893004427530930/posts/1898806326950730/
  33. http://www.patentit.com/
  34. http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail
  35. mailto:patrickhals at gmail.com
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