[DeTomaso] $13 a gasoline?

Will Kooiman will.kooiman at gmail.com
Tue Oct 27 08:53:25 EDT 2020


I have read a *lot* on climate change – from both sides.

 

I don’t understand all of the science, but I understand enough to follow what others have written.

 

It’s refreshing to see one “claim” after another that is spot-on.

 

I listed the claims once – to try to make sense of it all, and then I fact checked them.  The list is really long.  It included things like what has been posted already.

 

Most of the doom-and-goom about CO2 was difficult or impossible to fact check.  Like the claim that global warming is “hidden” in the depths of the ocean.  How do you know?  Do we have thermometers on the ocean floor?

 

Some of it was correct.  Man does have an impact on the environment.  But the CO2 impact is like peeing on a fire.  Our contribution to global warming is a fraction of a fraction.  We do much more damage with dirty power plants, trash in the oceans, and by driving Chevys.

 

From: George B <gkb1968 at hotmail.com>
Date: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 at 1:48 AM
To: Larry Stock <larrys at panteraparts.com>, Matt Wells <nwpantera at gmail.com>, Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>, "will.kooiman at gmail.com" <will.kooiman at gmail.com>
Cc: Detomaso List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] $13 a gasoline?

 

Volcanic eruptions play a huge part in this.  One large eruption (Mt Pinatubo) released more greenhouse depleting gasses than all cars ever made combined. There are constant eruptions around the world of various magnitudes.

Even if you believe that earths temp is only changing because of man made influence, the argument doesn't make any sense at all.  

China was building brand new dirty coal powerplants every few weeks for decades. Its estimated they do more environmental damage in a day than the US does in a year. The  air quality is so bad they had to shutdown 50% of their factories during the Olympics. Yet they took much of US manufacturing business.

Mexico uses inefficient dirty coal plants that power a large part of Southern California's grid (at night when most of the electric cars are charged). 

The US uses well regulated scrubbed and catalyzed power plants and has efficient factories. 

If climate change was such a serious issue why would we be allowed to purchase goods and services from China (or any other gross polluting country)? Why hasn't anyone been allowed to build an electric power plant in California in the last 20yrs, but Mexico can power the grid? Why is it that only strong westernized countries need to limit recreation, freedoms and prosperity to help this cause? 

This climate change agenda doesn't seems to have much to do with climate change...


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

Get Outlook for Android

 

From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2020 7:00:56 PM
To: Larry Stock <larrys at panteraparts.com>; Matt Wells <nwpantera at gmail.com>; Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
Cc: Detomaso List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] $13 a gasoline? 

 

Wikipedia says there were 241 coal fired power plants in the US in 2019.

Granted, Wikipedia isn't necessarily correct.

I agree with your point, but 15 seems too low.


On 10/26/20, 5:38 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Larry Stock" <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of larrys at panteraparts.com> wrote:

    Same goes for our dwindling 15 or so left Coal fired power plants with no more being built, compared to 
    The EU  has 468, and now building 27 more
    India has 589, now building 446 more
    China has 2363 and now building 1171 more
    The reality is;
    There are a total of 5615 Coal fired power plants in 8 countries, so shutting down our 15 power plants is going to save our planet, probably not going to be 0.00% to the -7 power of insifnificant.
    Larry

    On 10/26/20, 2:17 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Matt Wells" <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of nwpantera at gmail.com> wrote:

           A What ties the global warming discussion with politics is pure
           economics and politicalA affiliation withA big industry.
           I agree and like I alluded to, the inaccurate perception of our old
           cars being a major contributor is lack of education.
           Matt

           On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 12:58 PM Julian Kift
           <[1]julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:

           California has emitted over 90 million metric tons of CO2 related to
           wildfires in 2020 alone....
           Even when there's no wildfires I have been through the California farm
           belt when the farmers are burning rice paddy stubble and you can't see
           your hand in front of your face the smoke is so thick and yet
           perception is that classic cars are gross polluters, unfortunately you
           can't have a climate impact discussion that doesn't involve politics!
           Julian
             __________________________________________________________________

           From: DeTomaso <[2]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf
           of Matt Wells <[3]nwpantera at gmail.com>
           Sent: Monday, October 26, 2020 12:16 PM
           To: Ken Green <[4]kenn_green at yahoo.com>
           Cc: Detomaso List <[5]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
           Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] $13 a gasoline?
           A
           It all works together Ken, including the fish with "no real value".
           Since this has morphed into a climate issue and not a political one I
           would
           like to add something to the discussion.
           As Terry noted facts and data will lead us to a better understanding of
           the
           powers at play here on our little blue rock.
           I recently watched an enlightening doc on Netflix called* "Kiss the
           Ground"*
           featuring Woody Harrelson.
           It explains how the farming methods of the past have caught up with us
           and
           contributes to excess Carbon being expelled to our atmosphere.
           Through education and better understanding of how we've arrived at this
           crisis point of human evolution we can hopefully help to reverse it.
           There is another program on Netflix I would recommend by David
           Attenborough
           called *"A Life on Our Planet"*.
           Somehow it helps me to personally deal with global warming anxiety by
           knowing exactly why we're screwed.
           I have to force myself to watch these types of shows as it angers me to
           no
           end.
           They also offer some hope of the action necessary that could possibly
           save
           us and the planet.
           I now realize that even though ICE emissions are a contributing factor
           to
           the destruction of our amazing biosphere they are not the only reason.
           Learn from unbiased sources and stay away from politically motivated
           opines!
           Terry,
           I did a search and found that the NASA program you mentioned is
           available
           to the public. Thanks for the heads up.
           It's on my watch list!
           Matt
           On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 10:25 AM Ken Green via DeTomaso <
           [6]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
           >A A A  Certainly suspicious.
           >A A A  But I wonder why it makes sense to dump fresh water into the
           Sacramento
           >A A A  delta and then into the ocean to maintain the environment of a
           fish
           >A A A  (the delta smelt) that appears headed to extinction, when the
           water
           >A A A  could be used for agriculture that would reduce atmospheric
           CO2?A  If
           >A A A  global warming is such a big deal it seems like we should grow
           more
           >A A A  vegetation not save fish with no real value?A  A lot of what
           the
           >A A A  government is doing just doesn't make much sense to me, so I
           can
           >A A A  believe that pushing gas to ridiculous prices to satisfy
           >A A A  environmentalists is not out of the question.
           >A A A  Ken
           >
           >A A A  On Monday, October 26, 2020, 10:03:52 AM PDT, Jeff Detrich
           >A A A  <[7]jjdetrich at gmail.com> wrote:
           >A A A A A  I assume this may be from an oil industry supported source,
           but seems
           >A A A A A  AA  A to have some basis.A A
           >A A A A A  ____
           >A A A A A  FYI, re:AA  A CO2 CoalitionA A
           >A A A A A  Climate change deniers.
           >
           >A A A
           [1][1][8]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.newsweek.com/facebook-co2-coalition-fact-checking-&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw3TZrXqp5MngGfJGsJAifWx
           ads
           >A A A  -fa
           >A A A A A  ke-content-science-climate-change-1513311
           >
           >A A A
           [2][2][9]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CO2_Coalition%23:~:text%3DThe%2520orga&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw3BthlAFBULBwvOrUXym4-U
           niz
           >A A A  ati
           >A A A A A  on%20been%20funded%20by,Marshall%20Institute.
           >
           >A A A
           [3][3][10]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/02/physicist-leading-tru&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw0N5rvTAsp1S7ku3FjG6Jp1
           mp-s
           >A A A  -ad
           >A A A A A  versarial-climate-review-also-led-group-touting-carbon
           >A A A A A  Jeff
           >A A A A A  6559
           >A A A A A  On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 10:52 AM Ken Green via DeTomaso
           >A A A A A  <[4][4][11]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
           >A A A A A A A  AA  A I assume this may be from an oil industry
           supported source,
           >A A A  but
           >A A A A A A A  seems
           >A A A A A A A  AA  A to have some basis.
           >A A A A A A A  AA  A [1]Gasoline Prices Under the Green New Deal Would
           Reach $13
           >A A A  per
           >A A A A A A A  Gallon
           >A A A A A A A  AA  AA  A Gasoline Prices Under the Green New Deal
           Would Reach $13
           >A A A  per
           >A A A A A A A  Gallon
           >A A A A A A A  AA  AA  Many of the Democrats running for President in
           2020 support
           >A A A A A A A  the Green
           >A A A A A A A  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  New Deal that was
           introduced by
           >A A A A A A A  Representa...
           >A A A A A A A  References
           >A A A A A A A  AA  A Visible links
           >A A A A A A A  AA  A 1.
           >
           >A A A
           [5][5][12]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/fossil-fuels/gas-a&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw3K8_Do73CvypFBbdCnZve5
           nd-o
           >
           >A A A
           il/gasoline-prices-under-the-green-new-deal-would-reach-13-per-gallo
           >A A A A A A A  n/
           >A A A A A A A  AA  A Hidden links:
           >A A A A A A A  AA  A 3.
           >
           >A A A
           [6][6][13]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/fossil-fuels/gas-a&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw3K8_Do73CvypFBbdCnZve5
           nd-o
           >
           >A A A
           il/gasoline-prices-under-the-green-new-deal-would-reach-13-per-gallo
           >A A A A A A A  n/
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           s-fa
           >A A A  ke-content-science-climate-change-1513311
           >A A A A A  2.
           >A A A
           [10][17]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CO2_Coalition%23:~:text%3DThe%2520organ&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw07Use0xnIZ_TKsZA_NH0kz
           izat
           >A A A  ion%20been%20funded%20by,Marshall%20Institute
           >A A A A A  3.
           >A A A
           [11][18]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/02/physicist-leading-trump&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw3EDl4TfPGU_N1MtzRm1zaG
           -s-a
           >A A A  dversarial-climate-review-also-led-group-touting-carbon
           >A A A A A  4. mailto:[12][19]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
           >A A A A A  5.
           >A A A
           [13][20]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/fossil-fuels/gas-and&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw0JgBWfBcOekf9bcrK7OPDi
           -oil
           >A A A
           /gasoline-prices-under-the-green-new-deal-would-reach-13-per-gallon/
           >A A A A A  6.
           >A A A
           [14][21]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/fossil-fuels/gas-and&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw0JgBWfBcOekf9bcrK7OPDi
           -oil
           >A A A
           /gasoline-prices-under-the-green-new-deal-would-reach-13-per-gallon/
           >A A A A A  7. mailto:[15][22]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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           >A A A  1.
           [26]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.newsweek.com/facebook-co2-coalition-fact-checking-ads-f&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw3hakDdYo-DxJ9V37GXuPmZ
           a
           >A A A  2.
           [27]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CO2_Coalition%23:~:text%3DThe%2520organizat&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw3ON4_bqCT9CqtJAb3bpvEm
           i
           >A A A  3.
           [28]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/02/physicist-leading-trump-s-a&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw39JORZG3siQGCNSaAhqlc1
           d
           >A A A  4. [29]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
           >A A A  5.
           [30]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/fossil-fuels/gas-and-o&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw3ibABpUD-NQj5PyEY7cfOD
           >A A A  6.
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           >A A A  7. [32]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
           >A A A  8. [33]https://www.google.com/url?q=http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw2dO85LQdx8cy9hETePafHb
           >A A A  9.
           >
           [34]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.newsweek.com/facebook-co2-coalition-fact-checking-ads-f&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw3hakDdYo-DxJ9V37GXuPmZ
           ake-content-science-climate-change-1513311
           >A A  10.
           >
           [35]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CO2_Coalition%23:~:text%3DThe%2520organizat&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw3ON4_bqCT9CqtJAb3bpvEm
           ion%20been%20funded%20by,Marshall%20Institute
           >A A  11.
           >
           [36]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/02/physicist-leading-trump-s-a&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw39JORZG3siQGCNSaAhqlc1
           dversarial-climate-review-also-led-group-touting-carbon
           >A A  12. [37]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
           >A A  13.
           >
           [38]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/fossil-fuels/gas-and-oil&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw1Si9jPhdhHAwg-AomsvqWv
           /gasoline-prices-under-the-green-new-deal-would-reach-13-per-gallon/
           >A A  14.
           >
           [39]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/fossil-fuels/gas-and-oil&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw1Si9jPhdhHAwg-AomsvqWv
           /gasoline-prices-under-the-green-new-deal-would-reach-13-per-gallon/
           >A A  15. [40]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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        References

           1. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
           2. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
           3. mailto:nwpantera at gmail.com
           4. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
           5. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
           6. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
           7. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
           8. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.newsweek.com/facebook-co2-coalition-fact-checking-ads&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw301os-X-LmnKybv_IIcCkN
           9. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CO2_Coalition%23:~:text%3DThe%2520organiz&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw2g5MI_uyNbtWgvQ4AVvf8W
          10. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/02/physicist-leading-trump-s&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw15ao6EWpH31hSanRt_2DsH
          11. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
          12. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/fossil-fuels/gas-and-o&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw3ibABpUD-NQj5PyEY7cfOD
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          14. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
          15. https://www.google.com/url?q=http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw2dO85LQdx8cy9hETePafHb
          16. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.newsweek.com/facebook-co2-coalition-fact-checking-ads-fa&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw3xmnhSoG2BGrQTNJUFNeYi
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          19. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
          20. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/fossil-fuels/gas-and-oil&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw1Si9jPhdhHAwg-AomsvqWv
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          22. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
          23. https://www.google.com/url?q=http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw2dO85LQdx8cy9hETePafHb
          24. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
          25. https://www.google.com/url?q=http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw2dO85LQdx8cy9hETePafHb
          26. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.newsweek.com/facebook-co2-coalition-fact-checking-ads-fa&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw3xmnhSoG2BGrQTNJUFNeYi
          27. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CO2_Coalition%23:~:text%3DThe%2520organizati&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw0-iiKwZSlzm98IArVj438C
          28. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/02/physicist-leading-trump-s-ad&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw1OS5Mih_fu_XH09_qiL17i
          29. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
          30. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/fossil-fuels/gas-and-o&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw3ibABpUD-NQj5PyEY7cfOD
          31. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/fossil-fuels/gas-and-o&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw3ibABpUD-NQj5PyEY7cfOD
          32. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
          33. https://www.google.com/url?q=http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw2dO85LQdx8cy9hETePafHb
          34. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.newsweek.com/facebook-co2-coalition-fact-checking-ads-fake-content-science-climate-change-1513311&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw1srO3pZ427j654YioSOAm3
          35. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CO2_Coalition%23:~:text%3DThe%2520organization%2520been%2520funded%2520by,Marshall%2520Institute&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw0s5hrG7ofLws3s64xgZFk5
          36. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/02/physicist-leading-trump-s-adversarial-climate-review-also-led-group-touting-carbon&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw168_0ktwyBYIS5MREBODv5
          37. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
          38. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/fossil-fuels/gas-and-oil/gasoline-prices-under-the-green-new-deal-would-reach-13-per-gallon/&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw1tav03sPvqdTXz8w22P76P
          39. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/fossil-fuels/gas-and-oil/gasoline-prices-under-the-green-new-deal-would-reach-13-per-gallon/&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw1tav03sPvqdTXz8w22P76P
          40. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
          41. https://www.google.com/url?q=http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw2dO85LQdx8cy9hETePafHb
          42. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
          43. https://www.google.com/url?q=http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw2dO85LQdx8cy9hETePafHb
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-------------- next part --------------
   I have read a *lot* on climate change - from both sides.


   I don't understand all of the science, but I understand enough to
   follow what others have written.


   It's refreshing to see one "claim" after another that is spot-on.


   I listed the claims once - to try to make sense of it all, and then I
   fact checked them.  The list is really long.  It included things like
   what has been posted already.


   Most of the doom-and-goom about CO2 was difficult or impossible to fact
   check.  Like the claim that global warming is "hidden" in the depths of
   the ocean.  How do you know?  Do we have thermometers on the ocean
   floor?


   Some of it was correct.  Man does have an impact on the environment.
   But the CO2 impact is like peeing on a fire.  Our contribution to
   global warming is a fraction of a fraction.  We do much more damage
   with dirty power plants, trash in the oceans, and by driving Chevys.


   From: George B <gkb1968 at hotmail.com>
   Date: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 at 1:48 AM
   To: Larry Stock <larrys at panteraparts.com>, Matt Wells
   <nwpantera at gmail.com>, Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>,
   "will.kooiman at gmail.com" <will.kooiman at gmail.com>
   Cc: Detomaso List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] $13 a gasoline?


   Volcanic eruptions play a huge part in this.  One large eruption (Mt
   Pinatubo) released more greenhouse depleting gasses than all cars ever
   made combined. There are constant eruptions around the world of various
   magnitudes.

   Even if you believe that earths temp is only changing because of man
   made influence, the argument doesn't make any sense at all.

   China was building brand new dirty coal powerplants every few weeks for
   decades. Its estimated they do more environmental damage in a day than
   the US does in a year. The  air quality is so bad they had to shutdown
   50% of their factories during the Olympics. Yet they took much of US
   manufacturing business.

   Mexico uses inefficient dirty coal plants that power a large part of
   Southern California's grid (at night when most of the electric cars are
   charged).

   The US uses well regulated scrubbed and catalyzed power plants and has
   efficient factories.

   If climate change was such a serious issue why would we be allowed to
   purchase goods and services from China (or any other gross polluting
   country)? Why hasn't anyone been allowed to build an electric power
   plant in California in the last 20yrs, but Mexico can power the grid?
   Why is it that only strong westernized countries need to limit
   recreation, freedoms and prosperity to help this cause?

   This climate change agenda doesn't seems to have much to do with
   climate change...

   Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

   Get [1]Outlook for Android

   _______________________________________________________________________

   From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of
   Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com>
   Sent: Monday, October 26, 2020 7:00:56 PM
   To: Larry Stock <larrys at panteraparts.com>; Matt Wells
   <nwpantera at gmail.com>; Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
   Cc: Detomaso List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] $13 a gasoline?


   Wikipedia says there were 241 coal fired power plants in the US in
   2019.
   Granted, Wikipedia isn't necessarily correct.
   I agree with your point, but 15 seems too low.
   On 10/26/20, 5:38 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Larry Stock"
   <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
   larrys at panteraparts.com> wrote:
       Same goes for our dwindling 15 or so left Coal fired power plants
   with no more being built, compared to
       The EU  has 468, and now building 27 more
       India has 589, now building 446 more
       China has 2363 and now building 1171 more
       The reality is;
       There are a total of 5615 Coal fired power plants in 8 countries,
   so shutting down our 15 power plants is going to save our planet,
   probably not going to be 0.00% to the -7 power of insifnificant.
       Larry
       On 10/26/20, 2:17 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Matt Wells"
   <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
   nwpantera at gmail.com> wrote:
              A What ties the global warming discussion with politics is
   pure
              economics and politicalA affiliation withA big industry.
              I agree and like I alluded to, the inaccurate perception of
   our old
              cars being a major contributor is lack of education.
              Matt
              On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 12:58 PM Julian Kift
              <[1]julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:
              California has emitted over 90 million metric tons of CO2
   related to
              wildfires in 2020 alone....
              Even when there's no wildfires I have been through the
   California farm
              belt when the farmers are burning rice paddy stubble and you
   can't see
              your hand in front of your face the smoke is so thick and
   yet
              perception is that classic cars are gross polluters,
   unfortunately you
              can't have a climate impact discussion that doesn't involve
   politics!
              Julian

   __________________________________________________________________
              From: DeTomaso <[2]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com>
   on behalf
              of Matt Wells <[3]nwpantera at gmail.com>
              Sent: Monday, October 26, 2020 12:16 PM
              To: Ken Green <[4]kenn_green at yahoo.com>
              Cc: Detomaso List <[5]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
              Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] $13 a gasoline?
              A
              It all works together Ken, including the fish with "no real
   value".
              Since this has morphed into a climate issue and not a
   political one I
              would
              like to add something to the discussion.
              As Terry noted facts and data will lead us to a better
   understanding of
              the
              powers at play here on our little blue rock.
              I recently watched an enlightening doc on Netflix called*
   "Kiss the
              Ground"*
              featuring Woody Harrelson.
              It explains how the farming methods of the past have caught
   up with us
              and
              contributes to excess Carbon being expelled to our
   atmosphere.
              Through education and better understanding of how we've
   arrived at this
              crisis point of human evolution we can hopefully help to
   reverse it.
              There is another program on Netflix I would recommend by
   David
              Attenborough
              called *"A Life on Our Planet"*.
              Somehow it helps me to personally deal with global warming
   anxiety by
              knowing exactly why we're screwed.
              I have to force myself to watch these types of shows as it
   angers me to
              no
              end.
              They also offer some hope of the action necessary that could
   possibly
              save
              us and the planet.
              I now realize that even though ICE emissions are a
   contributing factor
              to
              the destruction of our amazing biosphere they are not the
   only reason.
              Learn from unbiased sources and stay away from politically
   motivated
              opines!
              Terry,
              I did a search and found that the NASA program you mentioned
   is
              available
              to the public. Thanks for the heads up.
              It's on my watch list!
              Matt
              On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 10:25 AM Ken Green via DeTomaso <
              [6]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
              >A A A  Certainly suspicious.
              >A A A  But I wonder why it makes sense to dump fresh water
   into the
              Sacramento
              >A A A  delta and then into the ocean to maintain the
   environment of a
              fish
              >A A A  (the delta smelt) that appears headed to extinction,
   when the
              water
              >A A A  could be used for agriculture that would reduce
   atmospheric
              CO2?A  If
              >A A A  global warming is such a big deal it seems like we
   should grow
              more
              >A A A  vegetation not save fish with no real value?A  A lot
   of what
              the
              >A A A  government is doing just doesn't make much sense to
   me, so I
              can
              >A A A  believe that pushing gas to ridiculous prices to
   satisfy
              >A A A  environmentalists is not out of the question.
              >A A A  Ken
              >
              >A A A  On Monday, October 26, 2020, 10:03:52 AM PDT, Jeff
   Detrich
              >A A A  <[7]jjdetrich at gmail.com> wrote:
              >A A A A A  I assume this may be from an oil industry
   supported source,
              but seems
              >A A A A A  AA  A to have some basis.A A
              >A A A A A  ____
              >A A A A A  FYI, re:AA  A CO2 CoalitionA A
              >A A A A A  Climate change deniers.
              >
              >A A A

   [1][1][8]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.newsweek.com/facebook
   -co2-coalition-fact-checking-&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&us
   g=AOvVaw3TZrXqp5MngGfJGsJAifWx
              ads
              >A A A  -fa
              >A A A A A  ke-content-science-climate-change-1513311
              >
              >A A A

   [2][2][9]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CO2
   _Coalition%23:~:text%3DThe%2520orga&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000
   000&usg=AOvVaw3BthlAFBULBwvOrUXym4-U
              niz
              >A A A  ati
              >A A A A A  on%20been%20funded%20by,Marshall%20Institute.
              >
              >A A A

   [3][3][10]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.sciencemag.org/news/
   2019/02/physicist-leading-tru&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&us
   g=AOvVaw0N5rvTAsp1S7ku3FjG6Jp1
              mp-s
              >A A A  -ad
              >A A A A A
   versarial-climate-review-also-led-group-touting-carbon
              >A A A A A  Jeff
              >A A A A A  6559
              >A A A A A  On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 10:52 AM Ken Green via
   DeTomaso
              >A A A A A  <[4][4][11]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   wrote:
              >A A A A A A A  AA  A I assume this may be from an oil
   industry
              supported source,
              >A A A  but
              >A A A A A A A  seems
              >A A A A A A A  AA  A to have some basis.
              >A A A A A A A  AA  A [1]Gasoline Prices Under the Green New
   Deal Would
              Reach $13
              >A A A  per
              >A A A A A A A  Gallon
              >A A A A A A A  AA  AA  A Gasoline Prices Under the Green
   New Deal
              Would Reach $13
              >A A A  per
              >A A A A A A A  Gallon
              >A A A A A A A  AA  AA  Many of the Democrats running for
   President in
              2020 support
              >A A A A A A A  the Green
              >A A A A A A A  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  AA  New Deal
   that was
              introduced by
              >A A A A A A A  Representa...
              >A A A A A A A  References
              >A A A A A A A  AA  A Visible links
              >A A A A A A A  AA  A 1.
              >
              >A A A

   [5][5][12]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.instituteforenergyre
   search.org/fossil-fuels/gas-a&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&us
   g=AOvVaw3K8_Do73CvypFBbdCnZve5
              nd-o
              >
              >A A A

   il/gasoline-prices-under-the-green-new-deal-would-reach-13-per-gallo
              >A A A A A A A  n/
              >A A A A A A A  AA  A Hidden links:
              >A A A A A A A  AA  A 3.
              >
              >A A A

   [6][6][13]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.instituteforenergyre
   search.org/fossil-fuels/gas-a&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&us
   g=AOvVaw3K8_Do73CvypFBbdCnZve5
              nd-o
              >
              >A A A

   il/gasoline-prices-under-the-green-new-deal-would-reach-13-per-gallo
              >A A A A A A A  n/
              >A A A A A A A
   _______________________________________________
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              >A A A A A A A  [7][7][14]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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   [8][8][15]https://www.google.com/url?q=http://server.detomasolist.com/m
   ailman/listinfo/detomaso&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOv
   Vaw2dO85LQdx8cy9hETePafHb
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   [9][16]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.newsweek.com/facebook-c
   o2-coalition-fact-checking-ad&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&us
   g=AOvVaw3NEv_rR3bxHs8buYR2EH0S
              s-fa
              >A A A  ke-content-science-climate-change-1513311
              >A A A A A  2.
              >A A A

   [10][17]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CO2_
   Coalition%23:~:text%3DThe%2520organ&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000
   000&usg=AOvVaw07Use0xnIZ_TKsZA_NH0kz
              izat
              >A A A  ion%20been%20funded%20by,Marshall%20Institute
              >A A A A A  3.
              >A A A

   [11][18]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.sciencemag.org/news/20
   19/02/physicist-leading-trump&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&us
   g=AOvVaw3EDl4TfPGU_N1MtzRm1zaG
              -s-a
              >A A A
   dversarial-climate-review-also-led-group-touting-carbon
              >A A A A A  4.
   mailto:[12][19]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
              >A A A A A  5.
              >A A A

   [13][20]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.instituteforenergyrese
   arch.org/fossil-fuels/gas-and&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&us
   g=AOvVaw0JgBWfBcOekf9bcrK7OPDi
              -oil
              >A A A

   /gasoline-prices-under-the-green-new-deal-would-reach-13-per-gallon/
              >A A A A A  6.
              >A A A

   [14][21]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.instituteforenergyrese
   arch.org/fossil-fuels/gas-and&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&us
   g=AOvVaw0JgBWfBcOekf9bcrK7OPDi
              -oil
              >A A A

   /gasoline-prices-under-the-green-new-deal-would-reach-13-per-gallon/
              >A A A A A  7.
   mailto:[15][22]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
              >A A A A A  8.

   [16][23]https://www.google.com/url?q=http://server.detomasolist.com/mai
   lman/listinfo/detomaso&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVa
   w2dO85LQdx8cy9hETePafHb
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   [26]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.newsweek.com/facebook-co2-
   coalition-fact-checking-ads-f&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&us
   g=AOvVaw3hakDdYo-DxJ9V37GXuPmZ
              a
              >A A A  2.

   [27]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CO2_Coal
   ition%23:~:text%3DThe%2520organizat&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000
   000&usg=AOvVaw3ON4_bqCT9CqtJAb3bpvEm
              i
              >A A A  3.

   [28]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/0
   2/physicist-leading-trump-s-a&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&us
   g=AOvVaw39JORZG3siQGCNSaAhqlc1
              d
              >A A A  4. [29]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
              >A A A  5.

   [30]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.instituteforenergyresearch
   .org/fossil-fuels/gas-and-o&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=
   AOvVaw3ibABpUD-NQj5PyEY7cfOD
              >A A A  6.

   [31]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.instituteforenergyresearch
   .org/fossil-fuels/gas-and-o&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=
   AOvVaw3ibABpUD-NQj5PyEY7cfOD
              >A A A  7. [32]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
              >A A A  8.
   [33]https://www.google.com/url?q=http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman
   /listinfo/detomaso&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw2dO
   85LQdx8cy9hETePafHb
              >A A A  9.
              >

   [34]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.newsweek.com/facebook-co2-
   coalition-fact-checking-ads-f&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&us
   g=AOvVaw3hakDdYo-DxJ9V37GXuPmZ
              ake-content-science-climate-change-1513311
              >A A  10.
              >

   [35]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CO2_Coal
   ition%23:~:text%3DThe%2520organizat&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000
   000&usg=AOvVaw3ON4_bqCT9CqtJAb3bpvEm
              ion%20been%20funded%20by,Marshall%20Institute
              >A A  11.
              >

   [36]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/0
   2/physicist-leading-trump-s-a&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&us
   g=AOvVaw39JORZG3siQGCNSaAhqlc1
              dversarial-climate-review-also-led-group-touting-carbon
              >A A  12. [37]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
              >A A  13.
              >

   [38]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.instituteforenergyresearch
   .org/fossil-fuels/gas-and-oil&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&us
   g=AOvVaw1Si9jPhdhHAwg-AomsvqWv

   /gasoline-prices-under-the-green-new-deal-would-reach-13-per-gallon/
              >A A  14.
              >

   [39]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.instituteforenergyresearch
   .org/fossil-fuels/gas-and-oil&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&us
   g=AOvVaw1Si9jPhdhHAwg-AomsvqWv

   /gasoline-prices-under-the-green-new-deal-would-reach-13-per-gallon/
              >A A  15. [40]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
              >A A  16.
   [41]https://www.google.com/url?q=http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman
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              >A A  18.
   [43]https://www.google.com/url?q=http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman
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           References
              1. [2]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
              2. [3]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
              3. [4]mailto:nwpantera at gmail.com
              4. [5]mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
              5. [6]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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   OvVaw301os-X-LmnKybv_IIcCkN
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   85LQdx8cy9hETePafHb
             16.
   [17]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.newsweek.com/facebook-co2-
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   .org/fossil-fuels/gas-and-oil&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&us
   g=AOvVaw1Si9jPhdhHAwg-AomsvqWv
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   85LQdx8cy9hETePafHb
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   85LQdx8cy9hETePafHb
             26.
   [27]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.newsweek.com/facebook-co2-
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   85LQdx8cy9hETePafHb
             34.
   [35]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.newsweek.com/facebook-co2-
   coalition-fact-checking-ads-fake-content-science-climate-change-1513311
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   3
             35.
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   ition%23:~:text%3DThe%2520organization%2520been%2520funded%2520by,Marsh
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   would-reach-13-per-gallon/&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=A
   OvVaw1tav03sPvqdTXz8w22P76P
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   would-reach-13-per-gallon/&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=A
   OvVaw1tav03sPvqdTXz8w22P76P
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             41.
   [42]https://www.google.com/url?q=http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman
   /listinfo/detomaso&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw2dO
   85LQdx8cy9hETePafHb
             42. [43]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
             43.
   [44]https://www.google.com/url?q=http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman
   /listinfo/detomaso&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw2dO
   85LQdx8cy9hETePafHb
             44. [45]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
             45.
   [46]https://www.google.com/url?q=http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman
   /listinfo/detomaso&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604353106000000&usg=AOvVaw2dO
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References

   1. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://aka.ms/ghei36&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604382510000000&usg=AOvVaw27ZPYI2d4gV0q0sro7XHlJ
   2. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
   3. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
   4. mailto:nwpantera at gmail.com
   5. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
   6. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   7. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   8. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
   9. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.newsweek.com/facebook-co2-coalition-fact-checking-ads%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1604353106000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw301os-X-LmnKybv_IIcCkN&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604382510000000&usg=AOvVaw0Rj1SiXVg35T9_L7xuKPc6
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  23. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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  33. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  34. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttp://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1604353106000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw2dO85LQdx8cy9hETePafHb&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604382510000000&usg=AOvVaw1Izx3yh1gXiC9L6Gu8Xy82
  35. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.newsweek.com/facebook-co2-coalition-fact-checking-ads-fake-content-science-climate-change-1513311%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1604353106000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw1srO3pZ427j654YioSOAm3&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604382510000000&usg=AOvVaw2u5uprSJlvmlhfz2ySlels
  36. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CO2_Coalition%2523:~:text%253DThe%252520organization%252520been%252520funded%252520by,Marshall%252520Institute%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1604353106000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw0s5hrG7ofLws3s64xgZFk5&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604382510000000&usg=AOvVaw1oc05e0tLsddeObrYwHfpn
  37. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/02/physicist-leading-trump-s-adversarial-climate-review-also-led-group-touting-carbon%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1604353106000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw168_0ktwyBYIS5MREBODv5&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604382510000000&usg=AOvVaw1L3XOIscXHigqvnz4lWm-j
  38. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  39. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/fossil-fuels/gas-and-oil/gasoline-prices-under-the-green-new-deal-would-reach-13-per-gallon/%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1604353106000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw1tav03sPvqdTXz8w22P76P&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604382510000000&usg=AOvVaw1rZFfXWi1gQnNCslwGePMx
  40. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/fossil-fuels/gas-and-oil/gasoline-prices-under-the-green-new-deal-would-reach-13-per-gallon/%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1604353106000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw1tav03sPvqdTXz8w22P76P&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604382510000000&usg=AOvVaw1rZFfXWi1gQnNCslwGePMx
  41. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  42. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttp://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1604353106000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw2dO85LQdx8cy9hETePafHb&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604382510000000&usg=AOvVaw1Izx3yh1gXiC9L6Gu8Xy82
  43. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  44. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttp://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1604353106000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw2dO85LQdx8cy9hETePafHb&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604382510000000&usg=AOvVaw1Izx3yh1gXiC9L6Gu8Xy82
  45. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  46. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttp://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1604353106000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw2dO85LQdx8cy9hETePafHb&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604382510000000&usg=AOvVaw1Izx3yh1gXiC9L6Gu8Xy82
  47. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttp://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1604353106000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw2dO85LQdx8cy9hETePafHb&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604382510000000&usg=AOvVaw1Izx3yh1gXiC9L6Gu8Xy82
  48. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttp://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1604353106000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw2dO85LQdx8cy9hETePafHb&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604382510000000&usg=AOvVaw1Izx3yh1gXiC9L6Gu8Xy82
  49. https://www.google.com/url?q=http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604382510000000&usg=AOvVaw2jY_iVF-uWq57BhH58p_eF


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