[DeTomaso] $13 a gasoline?
Will Kooiman
will.kooiman at gmail.com
Mon Oct 26 17:33:33 EDT 2020
Here's what I think I know. I might not have the numbers perfect, but I should be pretty close - going from memory.
Scientists believe that plant life dies at a CO2 level of about 150 PPM. When plants die, animals follow. During the last ice age, CO2 levels dropped to about 180 PPM. It was around 280 PPM at the beginning of the industrial revolution. They just passed 400 PPM. So, plants have been starving for CO2 since the last ice age. To make the earth greener, we need more CO2, not less. Kinda ironic, right?
Plants breath through tiny holes in their leaves called stomata. As they open their stomata to let CO2 in, they inadvertently let water out. So, they dehydrate as they breath. When CO2 levels are higher, they open their stomata less, so they lose less water, and consequently are more drought resistant. This is mainstream science (botany).
Here's a fun fact. There's a recipe by Earnest Hemingway for hushpuppies. He said, first fry some catfish, and then throw away the catfish and fry the hushpuppies in the grease. In the same light, greenhouses burn propane, throw away the heat and use the CO2 to make their plants grow faster. That's how important CO2 is to plants.
That doesn't mean we want to pump CO2 levels as high as we can get them, though. Naturally there are negative impacts to high CO2 levels. At the high end, humans have problems in the 6,500 PPM range. What happens at 1,000 PPM? 2,000 PPM? Etc.
In other words, what's the ideal CO2 level? Who knows? It almost definitely isn't 280 PPM or even 400 PPM. A climate scientist would say it is already too high and needs to be reduced to 350 PPM. Why 350 PPM? Because 350 is a smaller number than 400.
Unfortunately, it's difficult to have a real discussion about this, because everyone gets so emotional. If I even start a discussion with a friend, it's less than 2 minutes before he/she is screaming at me, and I'm not even bringing up controversial topics. That's the real travesity (not on my part - worldwide). We need an honest discussion without all of the emotions.
On 10/26/20, 3:58 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Julian Kift" <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:
California has emitted over 90 million metric tons of CO2 related to
wildfires in 2020 alone....
Even when there's no wildfires I have been through the California farm
belt when the farmers are burning rice paddy stubble and you can't see
your hand in front of your face the smoke is so thick and yet
perception is that classic cars are gross polluters, unfortunately you
can't have a climate impact discussion that doesn't involve politics!
Julian
__________________________________________________________________
From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of
Matt Wells <nwpantera at gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2020 12:16 PM
To: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
Cc: Detomaso List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] $13 a gasoline?
It all works together Ken, including the fish with "no real value".
Since this has morphed into a climate issue and not a political one I
would
like to add something to the discussion.
As Terry noted facts and data will lead us to a better understanding of
the
powers at play here on our little blue rock.
I recently watched an enlightening doc on Netflix called* "Kiss the
Ground"*
featuring Woody Harrelson.
It explains how the farming methods of the past have caught up with us
and
contributes to excess Carbon being expelled to our atmosphere.
Through education and better understanding of how we've arrived at this
crisis point of human evolution we can hopefully help to reverse it.
There is another program on Netflix I would recommend by David
Attenborough
called *"A Life on Our Planet"*.
Somehow it helps me to personally deal with global warming anxiety by
knowing exactly why we're screwed.
I have to force myself to watch these types of shows as it angers me to
no
end.
They also offer some hope of the action necessary that could possibly
save
us and the planet.
I now realize that even though ICE emissions are a contributing factor
to
the destruction of our amazing biosphere they are not the only reason.
Learn from unbiased sources and stay away from politically motivated
opines!
Terry,
I did a search and found that the NASA program you mentioned is
available
to the public. Thanks for the heads up.
It's on my watch list!
Matt
On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 10:25 AM Ken Green via DeTomaso <
detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
> Certainly suspicious.
> But I wonder why it makes sense to dump fresh water into the
Sacramento
> delta and then into the ocean to maintain the environment of a
fish
> (the delta smelt) that appears headed to extinction, when the
water
> could be used for agriculture that would reduce atmospheric CO2?
If
> global warming is such a big deal it seems like we should grow
more
> vegetation not save fish with no real value? A lot of what the
> government is doing just doesn't make much sense to me, so I can
> believe that pushing gas to ridiculous prices to satisfy
> environmentalists is not out of the question.
> Ken
>
> On Monday, October 26, 2020, 10:03:52 AM PDT, Jeff Detrich
> <jjdetrich at gmail.com> wrote:
> I assume this may be from an oil industry supported source, but
seems
> A A to have some basis.A A
> ____
> FYI, re:A A CO2 CoalitionA A
> Climate change deniers.
>
>
[1][1]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.newsweek.com/facebook-co2-coalition-fact-checking-ads&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604347111000000&usg=AOvVaw0nXf9IY-RD_YX_B0QhY2Bb
> -fa
> ke-content-science-climate-change-1513311
>
>
[2][2]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CO2_Coalition%23:~:text%3DThe%2520organiz&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604347111000000&usg=AOvVaw05HrH4FjeUZqMQ_-fbXqF_
> ati
> on%20been%20funded%20by,Marshall%20Institute.
>
>
[3][3]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/02/physicist-leading-trump-s&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604347111000000&usg=AOvVaw1WpP3DqrhpMWXE7M0fg82k
> -ad
> versarial-climate-review-also-led-group-touting-carbon
> Jeff
> 6559
> On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 10:52 AM Ken Green via DeTomaso
> <[4][4]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
> A A I assume this may be from an oil industry supported
source,
> but
> seems
> A A to have some basis.
> A A [1]Gasoline Prices Under the Green New Deal Would Reach
$13
> per
> Gallon
> A A A Gasoline Prices Under the Green New Deal Would Reach
$13
> per
> Gallon
> A A Many of the Democrats running for President in 2020
support
> the Green
> A A A A A A A A New Deal that was introduced by
> Representa...
> References
> A A Visible links
> A A 1.
>
>
[5][5]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/fossil-fuels/gas-and-o&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604347111000000&usg=AOvVaw2ldwfL8ipk-wdpIVm_9CUb
>
>
il/gasoline-prices-under-the-green-new-deal-would-reach-13-per-gallo
> n/
> A A Hidden links:
> A A 3.
>
>
[6][6]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/fossil-fuels/gas-and-o&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604347111000000&usg=AOvVaw2ldwfL8ipk-wdpIVm_9CUb
>
>
il/gasoline-prices-under-the-green-new-deal-would-reach-13-per-gallo
> n/
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> ke-content-science-climate-change-1513311
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[10]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CO2_Coalition%23:~:text%3DThe%2520organizat&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604347111000000&usg=AOvVaw24y_wR_OL1SWkvuED95yrw
> ion%20been%20funded%20by,Marshall%20Institute
> 3.
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[11]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/02/physicist-leading-trump-s-a&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604347111000000&usg=AOvVaw3scYKkKkampYbPBKfZXiKB
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>
/gasoline-prices-under-the-green-new-deal-would-reach-13-per-gallon/
> 6.
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[14]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/fossil-fuels/gas-and-oil&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604347111000000&usg=AOvVaw3KKtj7Nk0OilWj_piZkDJo
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> 3.
[3]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/02/physicist-leading-trump-s-ad&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604347111000000&usg=AOvVaw01kKqjCK2sFo-WzGDxjN8-
> 4. [4]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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[5]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/fossil-fuels/gas-and-o&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604347111000000&usg=AOvVaw2ldwfL8ipk-wdpIVm_9CUb
> 6.
[6]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/fossil-fuels/gas-and-o&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604347111000000&usg=AOvVaw2ldwfL8ipk-wdpIVm_9CUb
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ke-content-science-climate-change-1513311
> 10.
>
[10]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CO2_Coalition%23:~:text%3DThe%2520organizat&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604347111000000&usg=AOvVaw24y_wR_OL1SWkvuED95yrw
ion%20been%20funded%20by,Marshall%20Institute
> 11.
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[11]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/02/physicist-leading-trump-s-a&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604347111000000&usg=AOvVaw3scYKkKkampYbPBKfZXiKB
dversarial-climate-review-also-led-group-touting-carbon
> 12. [12]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 13.
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[13]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/fossil-fuels/gas-and-oil&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604347111000000&usg=AOvVaw3KKtj7Nk0OilWj_piZkDJo
/gasoline-prices-under-the-green-new-deal-would-reach-13-per-gallon/
> 14.
>
[14]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/fossil-fuels/gas-and-oil&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604347111000000&usg=AOvVaw3KKtj7Nk0OilWj_piZkDJo
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References
1. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.newsweek.com/facebook-co2-coalition-fact-checking-ads-fa&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604347111000000&usg=AOvVaw2K0zvangA9PfGgRN01OkDT
2. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CO2_Coalition%23:~:text%3DThe%2520organizati&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604347111000000&usg=AOvVaw13RAroXtdmZAbyCHBho4Wn
3. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/02/physicist-leading-trump-s-ad&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604347111000000&usg=AOvVaw01kKqjCK2sFo-WzGDxjN8-
4. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
5. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/fossil-fuels/gas-and-o&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604347111000000&usg=AOvVaw2ldwfL8ipk-wdpIVm_9CUb
6. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/fossil-fuels/gas-and-o&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604347111000000&usg=AOvVaw2ldwfL8ipk-wdpIVm_9CUb
7. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
8. https://www.google.com/url?q=http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604347111000000&usg=AOvVaw1ZnpvnnjbVGGGbgfdXJcWY
9. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.newsweek.com/facebook-co2-coalition-fact-checking-ads-fake-content-science-climate-change-1513311&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604347111000000&usg=AOvVaw0ViznX6Hqfh1vQdgQr26dw
10. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CO2_Coalition%23:~:text%3DThe%2520organization%2520been%2520funded%2520by,Marshall%2520Institute&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604347111000000&usg=AOvVaw14HuSbtDdHawz6r8w129zY
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12. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
13. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/fossil-fuels/gas-and-oil/gasoline-prices-under-the-green-new-deal-would-reach-13-per-gallon/&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604347111000000&usg=AOvVaw3G4aLbfwecNXQrZo5_KD9Y
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15. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
16. https://www.google.com/url?q=http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604347111000000&usg=AOvVaw1ZnpvnnjbVGGGbgfdXJcWY
17. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
18. https://www.google.com/url?q=http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso&source=gmail-imap&ust=1604347111000000&usg=AOvVaw1ZnpvnnjbVGGGbgfdXJcWY
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