[DeTomaso] Pantera Won't Start but has fuel, spark, good timing etc. Baffled and need Advice
Terry Appleby
taappleby at bigpond.com
Sat May 16 23:38:43 EDT 2020
I used the Pantera electronics push button start, to take the load off the key switch
Sent from my iPhone
> On 17 May 2020, at 1:15 pm, Sean Korb <spkorb at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Funny story, yes it should but might be super infrequent and random.
> In... 1984 I had super long hair and I convinced my mom to buy a 1967
> Mustang with no motor that I could put our 1970 LTD motor into.A It
> was quite the hot rod but it conked out shortly after the transplant.A
> I thought it was flooded, it had spark but it just wouldn't start or
> even backfire.
> I had my little brother start the car while I looked in the
> carburator... never do this. I had ginormous glasses which probably
> saved my eyes but the flame took out a chunk of my hair.A After a
> comic beat, I poked my head from behind the hood and my brother laughed
> for at least 2 weeks.
> Anyway I didn't have a Guage so I had him turn it over while I had my
> finger over the spark plugs hole.A Also don't do this. Practically
> sucked my finger in and we *know* it doesn't do that.A It made a funny
> rythmic noise .A That's when I checked the chain slack.
> Easier job to do on the Pantera than the Mustang but still painful.
>
> On Sat, May 16, 2020, 10:05 PM B Hower via DeTomaso
> <[1]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>
> A A How far off does the timing have to be before you no longer get
> any
> A A backfire while cranking ? I may be confused again, but it seems
> he has
> A A spark while cranking, thus cam is turning so should have air,A
> gas
> A A squirts at carburetor. So if gas at cylinder and spark at
> cylinder,
> A A shouldn't you get some type of back fire?
> A A Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may
> not be
> A A ! )
> A A On Saturday, May 16, 2020, 8:51:28 PM CDT, Dave Londry
> A A <[2]davel at trguys.com> wrote:
> A A A Yes, if not spark or fuel or air, then timing.
> A A A And per Sean, pin in distributor gear, timing gear or timing
> chain
> A A gone
> A A A past by a few links.
> A A A Dave
> A A A On 2020-05-16 4:43 p.m., Sean Korb wrote:
> A A A Oh! Without taking the pump and cover off you can check the
> chain
> A A slack
> A A A from the fuel pump hole.AA Reach in before the eccentric
> and see if
> A A A itas loose.AA Itas going to have some play but it will feel
> really
> A A A slack if the teeth have started to decay.
> A A A On Sat, May 16, 2020 at 7:39 PM Sean Korb
> [1]<[1][1][3]spkorb at gmail.com>
> A A wrote:
> A A A A timing light will show how close your timing is.AA I
> worry the pin
> A A is
> A A A sheared but binding on the shaft.AA It should still be
> checkable by
> A A A sight which sounds like what you have done.AA The other
> thing to
> A A check,
> A A A since you have a stock timing set, is the nylon gear on the
> cam.A
> A A A These can crack and fall into your oil pan. A compression
> check can
> A A A help verify it but if itas that far off youall hear it draw
> as well
> A A as
> A A A compress without even having to put a gauge on it.
> A A A Iam hoping itas just the ballast resistor but if you have
> stock 50
> A A year
> A A A old nylon gears, put replacing them on the list.
> A A A Sean
> A A A On Sat, May 16, 2020 at 2:06 PM Mike Reilly
> A A [2]<[2][2][4]reillyms at live.com>
> A A A wrote:
> A A A A AA A Hi all. I'm having a starting issue with my Pantera
> that has
> A A me
> A A A A AA A baffled.AA I've had the car since 1992 and it's
> never left me
> A A A A stranded.
> A A A A AA A It's been running strong and starting immediately
> including
> A A A A right
> A A A A AA A before this situation.AA Last weekend I started a
> drive with a
> A A A A planned
> A A A A AA A stop at a pet supply store near my house on my way
> out.AA So,
> A A A A the car
> A A A A AA A started just fine at home, warmed up a bit and then
> drove
> A A A A perfectly the
> A A A A AA A 1/2 mile to the pet supply store.AA I turned the
> car off,
> A A A A bought dog
> A A A A AA A food and then got back in to continue my drive.AA
> Well, the
> A A car
> A A A A would
> A A A A AA A not start.AA It turned over fine, the battery was
> strong, the
> A A A A starter
> A A A A AA A was cranking but it would not start seemly like it
> couldn't
> A A get
> A A A A a
> A A A A AA A spark.AA I pulled the air cleaner and could see
> that it was
> A A A A getting fuel
> A A A A AA A as the fuel would squirt in the carb when I gave it
> throttle.A
> A A A A I
> A A A A AA A thought I may have flooded it so I let it sit 15-20
> mins and
> A A A A tried
> A A A A AA A again.AA Same issue.AA I pulled the driver side
> rear most plug
> A A A A wire and
> A A A A AA A hooked up my spark tester.AA It showed spark just
> fine.AA I
> A A let
> A A A A it sit
> A A A A AA A for an hour.AA Same issue.AA It cranked fine,
> would sound like
> A A A A it wanted
> A A A A AA A to fire but would not.AA Even when I floored the
> gas pedal
> A A A A while
> A A A A AA A cranking it (like for a flooded engine) it would
> rev up very
> A A A A high like
> A A A A AA A it was running but would not catch to keep
> running.AA I then
> A A A A pulled all
> A A A A AA A the plugs and cleaned them with parts cleaner I had
> with me.A
> A A A A They
> A A A A AA A looked dry but black indicating they were carbon
> fouled which
> A A A A was
> A A A A AA A probably from me trying to start it over and over
> creating a
> A A A A rich
> A A A A AA A condition.AA So I ended up getting it towed the
> 1/2 mile back
> A A A A to my
> A A A A AA A house on a flatbed.AA : (AA The next day when
> home I did the
> A A A A following
> A A A A AA A (stats on my car listed at bottom of mail):
> A A A A AA AA A * Checked fuel coming into the carb.AA It was
> fine
> A A A A AA AA A * Changed to all new spark plugs. I checked for
> spark and
> A A it
> A A A A was
> A A A A AA AA AA A getting spark at the plug just fine.AA I
> gapped the new
> A A A A plugs at
> A A A A AA AA AA A .054 based on research on this forum and
> other Ford
> A A A A sources for a
> A A A A AA AA AA A 1974 351c in stock condition with an
> electronic
> A A A A ignition.AA The one
> A A A A AA AA AA A I tested showed good strong spark.
> A A A A AA AA A * Pulled distributor cap and it looked fine as
> did the
> A A A A rotor.AA They
> A A A A AA AA AA A are both about a year old.
> A A A A AA AA A * Turned rotor to see if it spun freely (e.g.
> roll pin may
> A A A A have
> A A A A AA AA AA A sheared).AA Rotor would not turn by hand
> so I assume it
> A A A A was still
> A A A A AA AA AA A connected through the shear pin (did check
> it later
> A A A A though)
> A A A A AA AA A * Changed carburetor to the new Summit Racing
> carb I had
> A A A A recently
> A A A A AA AA AA A purchased since I did notice my really old
> Holley 600
> A A was
> A A A A leaking
> A A A A AA AA AA A fuel at the base plate area.AA However it
> was running
> A A A A fine and
> A A A A AA AA AA A strong before I pulled it but it may have
> been running
> A A A A rich based
> A A A A AA AA AA A on reading the plugs. The new carb had fuel
> squirting so
> A A A A looked
> A A A A AA AA AA A good.AA Figured since I had spark, that
> maybe there was
> A A A A some issue
> A A A A AA AA AA A with the Holley.AA Same symptoms with the
> new
> A A A A carb....didn't start
> A A A A AA AA AA A in the same manner.
> A A A A AA AA A * Pulled front engine cover to check static
> timing.A
> A A A A Cranked the
> A A A A AA AA AA A engine by hand via the crank pulley and
> moved it to show
> A A A A the timing
> A A A A AA AA AA A mark (16 deg BTDC) on the timing marker
> that I had set
> A A A A last year.
> A A A A AA AA AA A The distributor rotor moved just fine to
> point to the #1
> A A A A sparkplug
> A A A A AA AA AA A wire location at this timing.AA This tells
> me that the
> A A A A distributor
> A A A A AA AA AA A shear pin was probably fine and the timing
> chain is
> A A still
> A A A A keeping
> A A A A AA AA AA A things lined up
> A A A A AA AA A * Still had the same issue of not starting with
> the same
> A A A A symptoms
> A A A A AA AA A * Pulled the distributor to check to see if the
> roll pin
> A A A A sheared or
> A A A A AA AA AA A partially sheared.AA It looked perfectly
> fine.AA I did
> A A A A notice the
> A A A A AA AA AA A inside of the distributor where the
> magnetic signal is
> A A A A captured and
> A A A A AA AA AA A the metal wheel that rotates with the rotor
> to align to
> A A A A the sender
> A A A A AA AA AA A from the ignition box was had some light
> surface rust.A
> A A A A But since I
> A A A A AA AA AA A had spark at the plugs it must still be
> working fine.A
> A A I
> A A A A cleaned it
> A A A A AA AA AA A up anyway while I had it out
> A A A A AA A Stats on my Pantera:
> A A A A AA AA A * Late model 74
> A A A A AA AA A * Stock basic 1974 engine with 32K miles and
> never rebuilt
> A A A A AA AA A * Stock oil pump and fuel pump
> A A A A AA AA A * Edelbrock performer aluminum intake manifold
> installed
> A A A A nearly 30
> A A A A AA AA AA A years ago
> A A A A AA AA A * 600 CFM Summit Carb with electric choke and
> vacuum
> A A A A secondary (same
> A A A A AA AA AA A as the Holley set up I just took off)
> A A A A AA AA A * Duraspark 2 electronic ignition/distributor
> (bought from
> A A A A Hall in
> A A A A AA AA AA A 1993). Mine has the green plastic colored
> wire support
> A A A A coming from
> A A A A AA AA AA A the control box.AA I wonder if this has
> failed?
> A A A A AA AA A * New MSD coil (not the oil can type).AA
> Bought this about
> A A 4
> A A A A months
> A A A A AA AA AA A ago and it was working great.AA This is
> MSD, P/N: 8207
> A A A A that is one
> A A A A AA AA AA A of the coils Jon Haas (Pantera Electronics)
> recommends
> A A A A for his
> A A A A AA AA AA A system.AA I did have a oil filled coil
> fail in the past
> A A A A and that was
> A A A A AA AA AA A easy to diagnose and replace.AA This new
> MSD coil made
> A A A A the engine
> A A A A AA AA AA A really run nice!
> A A A A AA AA A * Stock starter which cranks just fine
> A A A A AA AA A * New battery (about one year old) which is
> strong, charged
> A A A A and
> A A A A AA AA AA A cranks fine
> A A A A AA AA A * Standard stock grounds throughout the car. I
> did clean up
> A A A A the
> A A A A AA AA AA A braided ground by the end of the transaxle
> as part of
> A A A A general
> A A A A AA AA AA A maintenance a few years ago
> A A A A AA A So I've been going through the normal FASTEC
> approach.AA Fuel,
> A A A A Air,
> A A A A AA A Spark, Timing, Exhaust, Compression.AA It has
> fuel, air,
> A A spark,
> A A A A and
> A A A A AA A timing.AA Compression hasn't been checked yet but
> it's a low
> A A A A mile engine
> A A A A AA A which was running super strong.AA I think a
> compression issue
> A A A A would have
> A A A A AA A shown up with some symptoms rather than running
> great one
> A A A A minute and
> A A A A AA A not starting the next.AA As far as exhaust that is
> working and
> A A A A not
> A A A A AA A clogged up in anyway.AA I'm at a loss here as to
> what it could
> A A A A be and
> A A A A AA A why it ran great one minute and wouldn't start the
> next.A
> A A Next
> A A A A I'm
> A A A A AA A thinking the Duraspark 2 box may have failed.AA
> Not sure if
> A A A A those fail
> A A A A AA A in a mode where you get spark at the plug but the
> timing of
> A A the
> A A A A spark
> A A A A AA A is off due to the box failing? Any suggestions are
> A A appreciated.
> A A A A AA A Thanks, Mike
> A A A A AA A P.S.AA I will post this on the Forum as well to
> get additional
> A A A A input.AA I
> A A A A AA A really want to get driving again : )
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> A A A Sean Korb [[5]5][5][7]spkorb at gmail.com
> [6][6][6][8]http://spkorb.org (est
> A A 1994)
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> -P.
> A A Picasso
> A A A --
> A A A Sean Korb [[7]7][7][9]spkorb at gmail.com
> [8][8][8][10]http://spkorb.org (est
> A A 1994)
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> A A A 4.
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> A A TRGuys.com
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> 76. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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> 80. http://spkorb.org/
> 81. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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> 83. mailto:davel at trguys.com
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> 86. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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