[DeTomaso] Stiff clutch diagnosed - WTF?!
Pantdino
pantdino at aol.com
Mon Feb 24 12:38:52 EST 2020
I'll admit my total ignorance of clutch anatomy, but it looks to me like you had one rough, non-lubricated metal surface moving against another, and the surfaces were galling. There is presumably some sliding motion occurring as the ears are pushed out, and if the surfaces are rough, that sliding motion is going to take a lot of force as the little peaks and valleys of the surface match up and tend to prevent further sliding
But then I could be totally wrong. :)
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike & Elizabeth Thomas <mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>
To: 'FAITH MCCALL' <rfmccall at comcast.net>; detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Mon, Feb 24, 2020 8:11 am
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Stiff clutch diagnosed - WTF?!
Thanks Ron. I'm going to pull the guide tube and take a closer look at
it. The fact that there was more wear on one `ear' than the other on
the throw-out would seem to indicate the bearing assembly was pitching
every time it tried to engage.
Mike
Our email address has changed: Please use [1]mbefthomas2 at gmail.com for
all new messages, thanks!
From: FAITH MCCALL <rfmccall at comcast.net>
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2020 5:07 AM
To: Mike & Elizabeth Thomas <mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>;
detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Stiff clutch diagnosed - WTF?!
Mike,
Those McLoed release bearings are very nice but have one flaw. There is
no grease retention groove inside the
center bore of the retainer . If you look at the stock version, there
is a ,roughly, 1/4" wide groove machined onto
the bore to retain a small amount of lube . I had a few pf these fail
before I noticed the problem. I always chuck
the new retainer up in the lathe and cut a groove into it. No issues
for multiple years. Without the groove, the retainer
has a tendency to gall onto the guide tube on the trans and cause
exactly the issue that you describe. .
Ron McCall
On February 24, 2020 at 12:16 AM Mike & Elizabeth Thomas <
[2]mbefthomas2 at gmail.com> wrote:
At the end of the Panteras Northwest Fall Cruise last September, my
clutch
was becoming stiffer by the day and at the end, It was all I could do
to get
home.
I pulled the engine and ZF yesterday in prep for a restoration on the
car
and when we pulled the two apart to diagnose the stiff clutch, I found
that
the fingers on the clutch lever arm and the 'ears' on the throw-out
bearing
were both extremely worn (see attached photos). Also, while the face of
the
throw-out does not appear overly worn, the bearing itself is quite
loose and
rattily. The lever arm shaft moves freely enough so I suspect my
problem
was with the lever arm to throw-out friction.
I'm likely going to have to separate the bell housing from the ZF and
send
out for repairs - I don't want to tackle this one myself. I suspect the
throw-out actuator will need to be replaced. I put a very light lube on
things when I put it together but no more/less than the last two times
I've
replaced this bearing (with a stock unit previously) and never seen
this
kind of wear.
Stay tuned. I sent these pics to Adam at Pantera Performance and we'll
see
what he has to say. I was running one of Quella's throw-out bearings as
well. Glad I won't be driving it for a while.
Mike
Our email address has changed: Please use [3]mbefthomas2 at gmail.com
<mailto: [4]mbefthomas2 at gmail.com> for all new messages, thanks!
At the end of the Panteras Northwest Fall Cruise last September, my
clutch was becoming stiffer by the day and at the end, It was all I
could do to get home.
I pulled the engine and ZF yesterday in prep for a restoration on the
car and when we pulled the two apart to diagnose the stiff clutch, I
found that the fingers on the clutch lever arm and the `ears' on the
throw-out bearing were both extremely worn (see attached photos).
Also, while the face of the throw-out does not appear overly worn, the
bearing itself is quite loose and rattily. The lever arm shaft moves
freely enough so I suspect my problem was with the lever arm to
throw-out friction.
I'm likely going to have to separate the bell housing from the ZF and
send out for repairs - I don't want to tackle this one myself. I
suspect the throw-out actuator will need to be replaced. I put a very
light lube on things when I put it together but no more/less than the
last two times I've replaced this bearing (with a stock unit
previously) and never seen this kind of wear.
Stay tuned. I sent these pics to Adam at Pantera Performance and we'll
see what he has to say. I was running one of Quella's throw-out
bearings as well. Glad I won't be driving it for a while.
Mike
Our email address has changed: Please use [1] [5]mbefthomas2 at gmail.com
for
all new messages, thanks!
References
1. mailto: [6]mbefthomas2 at gmail.com
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-------------- next part --------------
I'll admit my total ignorance of clutch anatomy, but it looks to me
like you had one rough, non-lubricated metal surface moving against
another, and the surfaces were galling. There is presumably some
sliding motion occurring as the ears are pushed out, and if the
surfaces are rough, that sliding motion is going to take a lot of force
as the little peaks and valleys of the surface match up and tend to
prevent further sliding
But then I could be totally wrong. :)
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike & Elizabeth Thomas <mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>
To: 'FAITH MCCALL' <rfmccall at comcast.net>; detomaso
<detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Mon, Feb 24, 2020 8:11 am
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Stiff clutch diagnosed - WTF?!
Thanks Ron. I'm going to pull the guide tube and take a closer look
at
it. The fact that there was more wear on one `ear' than the other on
the throw-out would seem to indicate the bearing assembly was
pitching
every time it tried to engage.
Mike
Our email address has changed: Please use [1]mbefthomas2 at gmail.com
for
all new messages, thanks!
From: FAITH MCCALL <rfmccall at comcast.net>
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2020 5:07 AM
To: Mike & Elizabeth Thomas <mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>;
detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Stiff clutch diagnosed - WTF?!
Mike,
Those McLoed release bearings are very nice but have one flaw. There
is
no grease retention groove inside the
center bore of the retainer . If you look at the stock version, there
is a ,roughly, 1/4" wide groove machined onto
the bore to retain a small amount of lube . I had a few pf these fail
before I noticed the problem. I always chuck
the new retainer up in the lathe and cut a groove into it. No issues
for multiple years. Without the groove, the retainer
has a tendency to gall onto the guide tube on the trans and cause
exactly the issue that you describe. .
Ron McCall
On February 24, 2020 at 12:16 AM Mike & Elizabeth Thomas <
[2]mbefthomas2 at gmail.com> wrote:
At the end of the Panteras Northwest Fall Cruise last September, my
clutch
was becoming stiffer by the day and at the end, It was all I could do
to get
home.
I pulled the engine and ZF yesterday in prep for a restoration on the
car
and when we pulled the two apart to diagnose the stiff clutch, I
found
that
the fingers on the clutch lever arm and the 'ears' on the throw-out
bearing
were both extremely worn (see attached photos). Also, while the face
of
the
throw-out does not appear overly worn, the bearing itself is quite
loose and
rattily. The lever arm shaft moves freely enough so I suspect my
problem
was with the lever arm to throw-out friction.
I'm likely going to have to separate the bell housing from the ZF and
send
out for repairs - I don't want to tackle this one myself. I suspect
the
throw-out actuator will need to be replaced. I put a very light lube
on
things when I put it together but no more/less than the last two
times
I've
replaced this bearing (with a stock unit previously) and never seen
this
kind of wear.
Stay tuned. I sent these pics to Adam at Pantera Performance and
we'll
see
what he has to say. I was running one of Quella's throw-out bearings
as
well. Glad I won't be driving it for a while.
Mike
Our email address has changed: Please use [3]mbefthomas2 at gmail.com
<mailto: [4]mbefthomas2 at gmail.com> for all new messages, thanks!
At the end of the Panteras Northwest Fall Cruise last September, my
clutch was becoming stiffer by the day and at the end, It was all I
could do to get home.
I pulled the engine and ZF yesterday in prep for a restoration on the
car and when we pulled the two apart to diagnose the stiff clutch, I
found that the fingers on the clutch lever arm and the `ears' on the
throw-out bearing were both extremely worn (see attached photos).
Also, while the face of the throw-out does not appear overly worn,
the
bearing itself is quite loose and rattily. The lever arm shaft moves
freely enough so I suspect my problem was with the lever arm to
throw-out friction.
I'm likely going to have to separate the bell housing from the ZF and
send out for repairs - I don't want to tackle this one myself. I
suspect the throw-out actuator will need to be replaced. I put a very
light lube on things when I put it together but no more/less than the
last two times I've replaced this bearing (with a stock unit
previously) and never seen this kind of wear.
Stay tuned. I sent these pics to Adam at Pantera Performance and
we'll
see what he has to say. I was running one of Quella's throw-out
bearings as well. Glad I won't be driving it for a while.
Mike
Our email address has changed: Please use [1]
[5]mbefthomas2 at gmail.com
for
all new messages, thanks!
References
1. mailto: [6]mbefthomas2 at gmail.com
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archive
or approve the archiving of list messages.
References
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2. mailto:mbefthomas2 at gmail.com
3. mailto:mbefthomas2 at gmail.com
4. mailto:mbefthomas2 at gmail.com
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