[DeTomaso] Failure Analysis
Will Kooiman
will.kooiman at gmail.com
Wed Feb 12 23:33:11 EST 2020
Hi Everyone,
Sorry for posting and then not saying anything. I got busy with ³stuff².
That happens a lot lately.
I was wrong about one thing. The #4 cap was tight, not #3, probably due to
the bent #8 rod.
I really think I could put this thing back together again - with a new rod,
1 new sleeve, and of course, with the hole welded up.
I will take pics this weekend. When I get home during the week, there isn¹t
enough light to take good pics.
Will.
From: John Taphorn <johnftaphorn at gmail.com>
Date: Sunday, February 9, 2020 at 8:35 PM
To: Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com>
Cc: List DeTomaso Forum <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Failure Analysis
Thanks for sharing. You are to be commended for staying constructively
positive!
JT
On Sat, Feb 8, 2020 at 10:15 PM Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> For your enjoyment...
>
> The last time I drove my car, it was running great. How many stories
> start like this?
>
> I had a new 351C, 4" stroker crank, H-beam rods, forged pistons, old
> worn out A3 heads, Webers with filters, 180 degree headers, hard blok
> to the bottom of the freeze plugs. Everything that I could find new
> had been replaced with new. I had about 200 miles on it.
>
> I drove it to work, no drama, no overheating, and parked it. I love
> this car. When I got in it to leave, it turned over, but the starter
> made an ugly sound. I thought the starter had failed to engage the
> ring gear correctly. I rocked it back and forth a bit, and the pinion
> popped out of the ring gear. I tried again, but the starter said,
> "No." As any gear head would do, I tried to push start it. No dice.
> It was locked up. So, I flat bedded it home. I tipped the tow truck
> driver. Always do this. It's good karma.
>
> When I got some time, I drained the oil and found water in the oil.
> Crap.
>
> I suspected #7. Several years ago I was working on the linkage on the
> Webers and dropped 3 very small washers. I found 2. I looked for 1-2
> hours, but couldn't find #3. I convinced myself that it had rolled out
> of site. A few years later, I removed the heads. I don't remember
> why. I probably did something stupid again. It's genetic. At any
> rate, I found the third washer. It was in #7 crammed into the head
> with a tiny dent in the #7 piston. I don't recall what I did next. I
> can't imagine that I put the engine together with a washer stuck in the
> head, but maybe I did. Lots of things on my mind the last 5 years.
>
> When I saw the water in the oil, I pulled the driver's head. The
> washer is no longer stuck in the head, but there's a hole to the water
> jacket, slightly larger than a washer. Crap #2.
>
> Naturally I figured I hydro locked the engine, and I suspected that I
> windowed the #7 cylinder. I didn't mess with the 351C anymore. I was
> tired of dealing with old parts, so I decided to build an all-new 351.
>
> I bought a new Dart block, 9.2" deck, 4" crank, Scat H-beam rods,
> forged pistons, etc., and found brand new A3 heads on e-bay. It's in
> the car now. I'm finishing up the final pieces before I try to start
> it.
>
> Off topic: Dart blocks are car porn. They look like they will handle
> 5,000 HP. Holy crap are they nice. I had to grind on the motor mounts
> because Dart blocks have webbing around the motor mount bolts that
> interfere with Pantera mounts. Did I mention I love Dart blocks?
>
> Way off topic: I also recently bought a 427 SO block by BBM for my
> Cobra. It's also car porn. It is identical to a Ford 427 SO, with
> more thickness where it matters, plus better mains. It looks like it's
> designed for Godzilla. I stared at the bottom end for hours while I
> drank 2 glasses of wine. I saw colors. Then, I smoked a cigarette.
>
> Back on topic.
>
> I decided to do failure analysis on the 351C tonight. At this point,
> the engine was right side up with the passenger's head still on the
> block. I didn't want to flip it over, because I hadn't removed the
> lifters.
>
> To my surprise, #7 looks fine. There's some grunge on the #7 cylinder,
> but it will clean up. The rod cap didn't want to come off, so I
> suspected something wrong with #3. I removed the passenger's head, and
> removed the #3 piston. No problems there. The bearings aren't blue.
> Crank journals look okay. That's when I noticed the rod was bent on
> #4. I would have noticed earlier, but the engine was right side up.
>
> My failure analysis is hydro-lock on #7, which bent the #4 rod when it
> tried to compress the water. Perhaps it was on the #4 power stroke
> when it bent the rod. And maybe it didn't window the block due to the
> hard blok, and due to the fact that it wasn't running. Remember, it
> happened when I was trying to start it.
>
> The block looks okay. It will need a sleeve in #4. It has a gouge
> about 2" long that won't hone out. Of course, everything needs to be
> checked, but I was expecting way more carnage.
>
> I may do some pics tomorrow. It's 11pm in Florida, so I'm not going
> back out there tonight.
>
> Don't try this at home. Don't try it away from home either.
>
> Will.
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>
>
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-------------- next part --------------
Hi Everyone,
Sorry for posting and then not saying anything. I got busy with
"stuff". That happens a lot lately.
I was wrong about one thing. The #4 cap was tight, not #3, probably
due to the bent #8 rod.
I really think I could put this thing back together again - with a new
rod, 1 new sleeve, and of course, with the hole welded up.
I will take pics this weekend. When I get home during the week, there
isn't enough light to take good pics.
Will.
From: John Taphorn <[1]johnftaphorn at gmail.com>
Date: Sunday, February 9, 2020 at 8:35 PM
To: Will Kooiman <[2]will.kooiman at gmail.com>
Cc: List DeTomaso Forum <[3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Failure Analysis
Thanks for sharing. You are to be commended for staying constructively
positive!
JT
On Sat, Feb 8, 2020 at 10:15 PM Will Kooiman
<[4]will.kooiman at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Guys,
For your enjoyment...
The last time I drove my car, it was running great. How many
stories
start like this?
I had a new 351C, 4" stroker crank, H-beam rods, forged pistons,
old
worn out A3 heads, Webers with filters, 180 degree headers, hard
blok
to the bottom of the freeze plugs. Everything that I could find
new
had been replaced with new. I had about 200 miles on it.
I drove it to work, no drama, no overheating, and parked it. I
love
this car. When I got in it to leave, it turned over, but the
starter
made an ugly sound. I thought the starter had failed to engage
the
ring gear correctly. I rocked it back and forth a bit, and the
pinion
popped out of the ring gear. I tried again, but the starter
said,
"No." As any gear head would do, I tried to push start it. No
dice.
It was locked up. So, I flat bedded it home. I tipped the tow
truck
driver. Always do this. It's good karma.
When I got some time, I drained the oil and found water in the
oil.
Crap.
I suspected #7. Several years ago I was working on the linkage
on the
Webers and dropped 3 very small washers. I found 2. I looked
for 1-2
hours, but couldn't find #3. I convinced myself that it had
rolled out
of site. A few years later, I removed the heads. I don't
remember
why. I probably did something stupid again. It's genetic. At
any
rate, I found the third washer. It was in #7 crammed into the
head
with a tiny dent in the #7 piston. I don't recall what I did
next. I
can't imagine that I put the engine together with a washer stuck
in the
head, but maybe I did. Lots of things on my mind the last 5
years.
When I saw the water in the oil, I pulled the driver's head. The
washer is no longer stuck in the head, but there's a hole to the
water
jacket, slightly larger than a washer. Crap #2.
Naturally I figured I hydro locked the engine, and I suspected
that I
windowed the #7 cylinder. I didn't mess with the 351C anymore.
I was
tired of dealing with old parts, so I decided to build an all-new
351.
I bought a new Dart block, 9.2" deck, 4" crank, Scat H-beam rods,
forged pistons, etc., and found brand new A3 heads on e-bay.
It's in
the car now. I'm finishing up the final pieces before I try to
start
it.
Off topic: Dart blocks are car porn. They look like they will
handle
5,000 HP. Holy crap are they nice. I had to grind on the motor
mounts
because Dart blocks have webbing around the motor mount bolts
that
interfere with Pantera mounts. Did I mention I love Dart blocks?
Way off topic: I also recently bought a 427 SO block by BBM for
my
Cobra. It's also car porn. It is identical to a Ford 427 SO,
with
more thickness where it matters, plus better mains. It looks
like it's
designed for Godzilla. I stared at the bottom end for hours
while I
drank 2 glasses of wine. I saw colors. Then, I smoked a
cigarette.
Back on topic.
I decided to do failure analysis on the 351C tonight. At this
point,
the engine was right side up with the passenger's head still on
the
block. I didn't want to flip it over, because I hadn't removed
the
lifters.
To my surprise, #7 looks fine. There's some grunge on the #7
cylinder,
but it will clean up. The rod cap didn't want to come off, so I
suspected something wrong with #3. I removed the passenger's
head, and
removed the #3 piston. No problems there. The bearings aren't
blue.
Crank journals look okay. That's when I noticed the rod was bent
on
#4. I would have noticed earlier, but the engine was right side
up.
My failure analysis is hydro-lock on #7, which bent the #4 rod
when it
tried to compress the water. Perhaps it was on the #4 power
stroke
when it bent the rod. And maybe it didn't window the block due
to the
hard blok, and due to the fact that it wasn't running. Remember,
it
happened when I was trying to start it.
The block looks okay. It will need a sleeve in #4. It has a
gouge
about 2" long that won't hone out. Of course, everything needs
to be
checked, but I was expecting way more carnage.
I may do some pics tomorrow. It's 11pm in Florida, so I'm not
going
back out there tonight.
Don't try this at home. Don't try it away from home either.
Will.
_______________________________________________
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References
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