[DeTomaso] Failure Analysis
John Taphorn
johnftaphorn at gmail.com
Sun Feb 9 20:35:47 EST 2020
Thanks for sharing. You are to be commended for staying constructively
positive!
JT
On Sat, Feb 8, 2020 at 10:15 PM Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> For your enjoyment...
>
> The last time I drove my car, it was running great. How many stories
> start like this?
>
> I had a new 351C, 4" stroker crank, H-beam rods, forged pistons, old
> worn out A3 heads, Webers with filters, 180 degree headers, hard blok
> to the bottom of the freeze plugs. Everything that I could find new
> had been replaced with new. I had about 200 miles on it.
>
> I drove it to work, no drama, no overheating, and parked it. I love
> this car. When I got in it to leave, it turned over, but the starter
> made an ugly sound. I thought the starter had failed to engage the
> ring gear correctly. I rocked it back and forth a bit, and the pinion
> popped out of the ring gear. I tried again, but the starter said,
> "No." As any gear head would do, I tried to push start it. No dice.
> It was locked up. So, I flat bedded it home. I tipped the tow truck
> driver. Always do this. It's good karma.
>
> When I got some time, I drained the oil and found water in the oil.
> Crap.
>
> I suspected #7. Several years ago I was working on the linkage on the
> Webers and dropped 3 very small washers. I found 2. I looked for 1-2
> hours, but couldn't find #3. I convinced myself that it had rolled out
> of site. A few years later, I removed the heads. I don't remember
> why. I probably did something stupid again. It's genetic. At any
> rate, I found the third washer. It was in #7 crammed into the head
> with a tiny dent in the #7 piston. I don't recall what I did next. I
> can't imagine that I put the engine together with a washer stuck in the
> head, but maybe I did. Lots of things on my mind the last 5 years.
>
> When I saw the water in the oil, I pulled the driver's head. The
> washer is no longer stuck in the head, but there's a hole to the water
> jacket, slightly larger than a washer. Crap #2.
>
> Naturally I figured I hydro locked the engine, and I suspected that I
> windowed the #7 cylinder. I didn't mess with the 351C anymore. I was
> tired of dealing with old parts, so I decided to build an all-new 351.
>
> I bought a new Dart block, 9.2" deck, 4" crank, Scat H-beam rods,
> forged pistons, etc., and found brand new A3 heads on e-bay. It's in
> the car now. I'm finishing up the final pieces before I try to start
> it.
>
> Off topic: Dart blocks are car porn. They look like they will handle
> 5,000 HP. Holy crap are they nice. I had to grind on the motor mounts
> because Dart blocks have webbing around the motor mount bolts that
> interfere with Pantera mounts. Did I mention I love Dart blocks?
>
> Way off topic: I also recently bought a 427 SO block by BBM for my
> Cobra. It's also car porn. It is identical to a Ford 427 SO, with
> more thickness where it matters, plus better mains. It looks like it's
> designed for Godzilla. I stared at the bottom end for hours while I
> drank 2 glasses of wine. I saw colors. Then, I smoked a cigarette.
>
> Back on topic.
>
> I decided to do failure analysis on the 351C tonight. At this point,
> the engine was right side up with the passenger's head still on the
> block. I didn't want to flip it over, because I hadn't removed the
> lifters.
>
> To my surprise, #7 looks fine. There's some grunge on the #7 cylinder,
> but it will clean up. The rod cap didn't want to come off, so I
> suspected something wrong with #3. I removed the passenger's head, and
> removed the #3 piston. No problems there. The bearings aren't blue.
> Crank journals look okay. That's when I noticed the rod was bent on
> #4. I would have noticed earlier, but the engine was right side up.
>
> My failure analysis is hydro-lock on #7, which bent the #4 rod when it
> tried to compress the water. Perhaps it was on the #4 power stroke
> when it bent the rod. And maybe it didn't window the block due to the
> hard blok, and due to the fact that it wasn't running. Remember, it
> happened when I was trying to start it.
>
> The block looks okay. It will need a sleeve in #4. It has a gouge
> about 2" long that won't hone out. Of course, everything needs to be
> checked, but I was expecting way more carnage.
>
> I may do some pics tomorrow. It's 11pm in Florida, so I'm not going
> back out there tonight.
>
> Don't try this at home. Don't try it away from home either.
>
> Will.
> _______________________________________________
>
>
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-------------- next part --------------
Thanks for sharing. You are to be commended for staying constructively
positive!
JT
On Sat, Feb 8, 2020 at 10:15 PM Will Kooiman
<[1]will.kooiman at gmail.com> wrote:
A A Hi Guys,
A A For your enjoyment...
A A The last time I drove my car, it was running great.A How many
stories
A A start like this?
A A I had a new 351C, 4" stroker crank, H-beam rods, forged
pistons, old
A A worn out A3 heads, Webers with filters, 180 degree headers,
hard blok
A A to the bottom of the freeze plugs.A Everything that I could
find new
A A had been replaced with new.A I had about 200 miles on it.
A A I drove it to work, no drama, no overheating, and parked it.A
I love
A A this car.A When I got in it to leave, it turned over, but the
starter
A A made an ugly sound.A I thought the starter had failed to
engage the
A A ring gear correctly.A I rocked it back and forth a bit, and
the pinion
A A popped out of the ring gear.A I tried again, but the starter
said,
A A "No."A As any gear head would do, I tried to push start it.A
No dice.
A A It was locked up.A So, I flat bedded it home.A I tipped the
tow truck
A A driver.A Always do this.A It's good karma.
A A When I got some time, I drained the oil and found water in the
oil.
A A Crap.
A A I suspected #7.A Several years ago I was working on the
linkage on the
A A Webers and dropped 3 very small washers.A I found 2.A I
looked for 1-2
A A hours, but couldn't find #3.A I convinced myself that it had
rolled out
A A of site.A A few years later, I removed the heads.A I don't
remember
A A why.A I probably did something stupid again.A It's genetic.A
At any
A A rate, I found the third washer.A It was in #7 crammed into the
head
A A with a tiny dent in the #7 piston.A I don't recall what I did
next.A I
A A can't imagine that I put the engine together with a washer
stuck in the
A A head, but maybe I did.A Lots of things on my mind the last 5
years.
A A When I saw the water in the oil, I pulled the driver's head.A
The
A A washer is no longer stuck in the head, but there's a hole to
the water
A A jacket, slightly larger than a washer.A Crap #2.
A A Naturally I figured I hydro locked the engine, and I suspected
that I
A A windowed the #7 cylinder.A I didn't mess with the 351C
anymore.A I was
A A tired of dealing with old parts, so I decided to build an
all-new 351.
A A I bought a new Dart block, 9.2" deck, 4" crank, Scat H-beam
rods,
A A forged pistons, etc., and found brand new A3 heads on e-bay.A
It's in
A A the car now.A I'm finishing up the final pieces before I try
to start
A A it.
A A Off topic:A Dart blocks are car porn.A They look like they
will handle
A A 5,000 HP.A Holy crap are they nice.A I had to grind on the
motor mounts
A A because Dart blocks have webbing around the motor mount bolts
that
A A interfere with Pantera mounts.A Did I mention I love Dart
blocks?
A A Way off topic:A I also recently bought a 427 SO block by BBM
for my
A A Cobra.A It's also car porn.A It is identical to a Ford 427
SO, with
A A more thickness where it matters, plus better mains.A It looks
like it's
A A designed for Godzilla.A I stared at the bottom end for hours
while I
A A drank 2 glasses of wine.A I saw colors.A Then, I smoked a
cigarette.
A A Back on topic.
A A I decided to do failure analysis on the 351C tonight.A At this
point,
A A the engine was right side up with the passenger's head still on
the
A A block.A I didn't want to flip it over, because I hadn't
removed the
A A lifters.
A A To my surprise, #7 looks fine.A There's some grunge on the #7
cylinder,
A A but it will clean up.A The rod cap didn't want to come off, so
I
A A suspected something wrong with #3.A I removed the passenger's
head, and
A A removed the #3 piston.A No problems there.A The bearings
aren't blue.
A A Crank journals look okay.A That's when I noticed the rod was
bent on
A A #4.A I would have noticed earlier, but the engine was right
side up.
A A My failure analysis is hydro-lock on #7, which bent the #4 rod
when it
A A tried to compress the water.A Perhaps it was on the #4 power
stroke
A A when it bent the rod.A And maybe it didn't window the block
due to the
A A hard blok, and due to the fact that it wasn't running.A
Remember, it
A A happened when I was trying to start it.
A A The block looks okay.A It will need a sleeve in #4.A It has a
gouge
A A about 2" long that won't hone out.A Of course, everything
needs to be
A A checked, but I was expecting way more carnage.
A A I may do some pics tomorrow.A It's 11pm in Florida, so I'm not
going
A A back out there tonight.
A A Don't try this at home.A Don't try it away from home either.
A A Will.
_______________________________________________
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