[DeTomaso] Rebuilt/recreated Gr4 rings the bell!

Mon Feb 10 20:56:09 EST 2020

Jeff,

I doubt it!  The job is so poorly done that anybody who knows even a bit about Panteras will easily spot the subterfuge. Plus we will keep the knowledge alive as well....

Mike

Sent from my iPad

> On Feb 10, 2020, at 17:28, Jeff Detrich <jjdetrich at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>    In ten years all will be forgotten and he'll have his GR4. Might even
>   be thinking then that it was nicely bought.A
> 
>   Just my opinion.A
> 
>   Jeff
> 
>   6559
> 
>   On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 5:20 PM L GRAY <[1]tipo874a at msn.com> wrote:
> 
>     A  A  Ok, 2344. This car is so much not an original Gr. 4 any more.
>     Basically the main cabin with the VIN attached is all that remained
>     of the factory built car.
>     A  A  A To make it weirder, the complete nose & tail are from a
>     73/74 PANTERA body! I couldnat believe the rebuilder would not have
>     found early pre-L components to harvest for this car.
>     A  A  A  A I have pics of this car before it was shipped to Europe
>     and acquired by you know who. This car was so far gone that at leas
>     8 potential buyers ( myself included ) ran away from it ! !
>     A  A  A  A Those involved with this vehicle have not been
>     forthcoming with all of this cars historical facts and if it
>     actually sold at the numbers mentioned, someone was hoodwinked. I
>     would place a loose value at $ 175,000 to $200,000 maximum and
>     thatas probably a little heavy.........
>     A  A  A  Values get quite dicey on competition cars that were
>     written off back in the day only to be recreated to cash in on
>     someone elseas dreams.
>     A  A  A  A The other afactorya Gr.4 competition cars, with history,
>     are worth good money because they are still the original complete
>     car and not a Frankenstein recreation.
>     A  A  A  A  This kind of VIN salvaging has been going on forever,
>     unfortunately, among a multitude of racing cars and the result is
>     multiple cars with the same chassis numbers being claimed by several
>     different owners. This also muddies the waters on the valuation of
>     the unmolested cars veracity.
>     A  A  A  Buyer beware has never been a more important axiom then
>     now.
>     A  A  A  A  Thanks for sharing your information with us Mike !!
>     Leslie A. Gray
>> On Feb 9, 2020, at 2:29 AM, R.J. <[2]willibillie at live.de> wrote:
>> 
>> i>>?A  A If Phillipe the faker is in charge, that allone should
>     ring the bells.
>> A  A Same fake as his P70 is.
>> 
>> A  A Am 09.02.2020 um 05:33 schrieb Mike Drew via DeTomaso:
>> 
>> A  A Hi guys,
>> 
>> A  A Stephane Bergeron is visiting me from Paris, where he just
>     came from
>> A  A Retromobile. He told me that the former wreck of a Gr4 Pantera
>     #2344,
>> A  A the only one originally raced in the USA (by Warren Tope),
>     sold a
>> A  A couple of days ago to a German woman for 480,000 Euros!!!
>> 
>> A  A Here is an article (best ignored) about the cars generally
>     with good
>> A  A pics of the car in question:
>> 
>> A
>     A [1][1][3]https://www.goodwood.com/grr/columnists/dan-trent/2018/3/
>     dan-trent-i
>> A  A s-the-de-tomaso-pantera-the-best-value-70s-supercar/
>> 
>> A  A This car led a very, very hard life. It was raced and crashed
>     and then
>> A  A subjected to several different wild 1970s body modifications
>     (it
>> A  A probably had 500 pounds of bondo and fiberglass added) and
>     then crashed
>> A  A some more. It was finally abandoned in a field in the south. A
>     friend
>> A  A went to inspect it in the late 1990s and was horrified. The
>     whole
>> A  A chassis aft of the firewall was destroyed and replaced by
>     bubba tube
>> A  A frame chassis with some sort of generic non-Pantera
>     suspension. Same
>> A  A for everything ahead of the windshield. The only part that
>     remained was
>> A  A the center structure, and that was rusted to the point of
>     transparency.
>> A  A The guy, who owns another Gr4 car and has been an expert in
>     the marque
>> A  A for decades, pronounced it beyond salvation.
>> 
>> A  A Philippe Olzyck bought it, then apparently bought a street
>     L-model
>> A  A Pantera, cut it apart and grafted the necessary bits back onto
>     this
>> A  A chassis to make it a complete car once more. I've seen it
>     several times
>> A  A at events in Europe, and it looks quite good, but the plebeian
>     origins
>> A  A of the front and rear of the car are obvious to see. (Notice
>     the
>> A  A L-Model front fenders with turn signals).
>> 
>> A  A It has been for sale off and on since about 2011, running
>     through this
>> A  A auction and that dealership with little or no apparent
>     success. Now
>> A  A somebody has finally knocked it out of the park.
>> 
>> A  A The best Gr4 car would probably struggle to be worth this much
>     (Les
>> A  A Gray, what say you?) but this one is a bitsa, with probably no
>     more
>> A  A than 10-15% original Gr4 in it. The various vendors who have
>     offered it
>> A  A for sale over the years have been rather economical with the
>     truth when
>> A  A describing it, so I hope the buyer did her homework and
>     decided to buy
>> A  A the car anyway, rather than being duped by an unscrupulous
>     seller.
>> 
>> A  A It will be interesting to see what becomes of it.
>> 
>> A  A It bears mentioning that the story of its sale (and the
>     eye-watering
>> A  A sales price) could be inaccurate, as it was a private sale
>     rather than
>> A  A an auction sale.A  Only time will tell.....
>> 
>> A  A Mike
>> A  A Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> References
>> 
>> A  A 1.
>     [2][4]https://www.goodwood.com/grr/columnists/dan-trent/2018/3/dan-t
>     rent-is-t
>> he-de-tomaso-pantera-the-best-value-70s-supercar/
>> 
>> 
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>> References
>> 
>> A  A 1.
>     [7]https://www.goodwood.com/grr/columnists/dan-trent/2018/3/dan-tren
>     t-i
>> A  A 2.
>     [8]https://www.goodwood.com/grr/columnists/dan-trent/2018/3/dan-tren
>     t-is-the-de-tomaso-pantera-the-best-value-70s-supercar/
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>> A  A 4.
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> References
> 
>   1. mailto:tipo874a at msn.com
>   2. mailto:willibillie at live.de
>   3. https://www.goodwood.com/grr/columnists/dan-trent/2018/3/dan-trent-i
>   4. https://www.goodwood.com/grr/columnists/dan-trent/2018/3/dan-trent-is-t
>   5. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   6. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>   7. https://www.goodwood.com/grr/columnists/dan-trent/2018/3/dan-trent-i
>   8. https://www.goodwood.com/grr/columnists/dan-trent/2018/3/dan-trent-is-the-de-tomaso-pantera-the-best-value-70s-supercar/
>   9. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>  10. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>  11. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>  12. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>  13. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>  14. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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