[DeTomaso] Rebuilt/recreated Gr4 rings the bell!
Jeff Detrich
jjdetrich at gmail.com
Mon Feb 10 20:28:12 EST 2020
In ten years all will be forgotten and he'll have his GR4. Might even be
thinking then that it was nicely bought.
Just my opinion.
Jeff
6559
On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 5:20 PM L GRAY <tipo874a at msn.com> wrote:
> Ok, 2344. This car is so much not an original Gr. 4 any more.
> Basically the main cabin with the VIN attached is all that remained of the
> factory built car.
> To make it weirder, the complete nose & tail are from a 73/74 PANTERA
> body! I couldn’t believe the rebuilder would not have found early pre-L
> components to harvest for this car.
> I have pics of this car before it was shipped to Europe and
> acquired by you know who. This car was so far gone that at leas 8 potential
> buyers ( myself included ) ran away from it ! !
> Those involved with this vehicle have not been forthcoming with all
> of this cars historical facts and if it actually sold at the numbers
> mentioned, someone was hoodwinked. I would place a loose value at $ 175,000
> to $200,000 maximum and that’s probably a little heavy.........
> Values get quite dicey on competition cars that were written off
> back in the day only to be recreated to cash in on someone else’s dreams.
> The other “factory” Gr.4 competition cars, with history, are worth
> good money because they are still the original complete car and not a
> Frankenstein recreation.
> This kind of VIN salvaging has been going on forever,
> unfortunately, among a multitude of racing cars and the result is multiple
> cars with the same chassis numbers being claimed by several different
> owners. This also muddies the waters on the valuation of the unmolested
> cars veracity.
> Buyer beware has never been a more important axiom then now.
> Thanks for sharing your information with us Mike !!
>
> Leslie A. Gray
>
> > On Feb 9, 2020, at 2:29 AM, R.J. <willibillie at live.de> wrote:
> >
> > If Phillipe the faker is in charge, that allone should ring the
> bells.
> > Same fake as his P70 is.
> >
> > Am 09.02.2020 um 05:33 schrieb Mike Drew via DeTomaso:
> >
> > Hi guys,
> >
> > Stephane Bergeron is visiting me from Paris, where he just came from
> > Retromobile. He told me that the former wreck of a Gr4 Pantera #2344,
> > the only one originally raced in the USA (by Warren Tope), sold a
> > couple of days ago to a German woman for 480,000 Euros!!!
> >
> > Here is an article (best ignored) about the cars generally with good
> > pics of the car in question:
> >
> > [1][1]
> https://www.goodwood.com/grr/columnists/dan-trent/2018/3/dan-trent-i
> > s-the-de-tomaso-pantera-the-best-value-70s-supercar/
> >
> > This car led a very, very hard life. It was raced and crashed and then
> > subjected to several different wild 1970s body modifications (it
> > probably had 500 pounds of bondo and fiberglass added) and then crashed
> > some more. It was finally abandoned in a field in the south. A friend
> > went to inspect it in the late 1990s and was horrified. The whole
> > chassis aft of the firewall was destroyed and replaced by bubba tube
> > frame chassis with some sort of generic non-Pantera suspension. Same
> > for everything ahead of the windshield. The only part that remained was
> > the center structure, and that was rusted to the point of transparency.
> > The guy, who owns another Gr4 car and has been an expert in the marque
> > for decades, pronounced it beyond salvation.
> >
> > Philippe Olzyck bought it, then apparently bought a street L-model
> > Pantera, cut it apart and grafted the necessary bits back onto this
> > chassis to make it a complete car once more. I've seen it several times
> > at events in Europe, and it looks quite good, but the plebeian origins
> > of the front and rear of the car are obvious to see. (Notice the
> > L-Model front fenders with turn signals).
> >
> > It has been for sale off and on since about 2011, running through this
> > auction and that dealership with little or no apparent success. Now
> > somebody has finally knocked it out of the park.
> >
> > The best Gr4 car would probably struggle to be worth this much (Les
> > Gray, what say you?) but this one is a bitsa, with probably no more
> > than 10-15% original Gr4 in it. The various vendors who have offered it
> > for sale over the years have been rather economical with the truth when
> > describing it, so I hope the buyer did her homework and decided to buy
> > the car anyway, rather than being duped by an unscrupulous seller.
> >
> > It will be interesting to see what becomes of it.
> >
> > It bears mentioning that the story of its sale (and the eye-watering
> > sales price) could be inaccurate, as it was a private sale rather than
> > an auction sale. Only time will tell.....
> >
> > Mike
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> > References
> >
> > 1. [2]
> https://www.goodwood.com/grr/columnists/dan-trent/2018/3/dan-trent-is-t
> > he-de-tomaso-pantera-the-best-value-70s-supercar/
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
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> >
> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the li
> > nks above.
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> > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
> message p
> > osted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They
> also grant
> > the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the
> archiving of lis
> > t messages.
> >
> > References
> >
> > 1.
> https://www.goodwood.com/grr/columnists/dan-trent/2018/3/dan-trent-i
> > 2.
> https://www.goodwood.com/grr/columnists/dan-trent/2018/3/dan-trent-is-the-de-tomaso-pantera-the-best-value-70s-supercar/
> > 3. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 4. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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> > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >
> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
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> > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
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> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve
> the archiving of list messages.
> _______________________________________________
>
>
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-------------- next part --------------
In ten years all will be forgotten and he'll have his GR4. Might even
be thinking then that it was nicely bought.A
Just my opinion.A
Jeff
6559
On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 5:20 PM L GRAY <[1]tipo874a at msn.com> wrote:
A A Ok, 2344. This car is so much not an original Gr. 4 any more.
Basically the main cabin with the VIN attached is all that remained
of the factory built car.
A A A To make it weirder, the complete nose & tail are from a
73/74 PANTERA body! I couldnat believe the rebuilder would not have
found early pre-L components to harvest for this car.
A A A A I have pics of this car before it was shipped to Europe
and acquired by you know who. This car was so far gone that at leas
8 potential buyers ( myself included ) ran away from it ! !
A A A A Those involved with this vehicle have not been
forthcoming with all of this cars historical facts and if it
actually sold at the numbers mentioned, someone was hoodwinked. I
would place a loose value at $ 175,000 to $200,000 maximum and
thatas probably a little heavy.........
A A A Values get quite dicey on competition cars that were
written off back in the day only to be recreated to cash in on
someone elseas dreams.
A A A A The other afactorya Gr.4 competition cars, with history,
are worth good money because they are still the original complete
car and not a Frankenstein recreation.
A A A A This kind of VIN salvaging has been going on forever,
unfortunately, among a multitude of racing cars and the result is
multiple cars with the same chassis numbers being claimed by several
different owners. This also muddies the waters on the valuation of
the unmolested cars veracity.
A A A Buyer beware has never been a more important axiom then
now.
A A A A Thanks for sharing your information with us Mike !!
Leslie A. Gray
> On Feb 9, 2020, at 2:29 AM, R.J. <[2]willibillie at live.de> wrote:
>
> i>>?A A If Phillipe the faker is in charge, that allone should
ring the bells.
>A A Same fake as his P70 is.
>
>A A Am 09.02.2020 um 05:33 schrieb Mike Drew via DeTomaso:
>
>A A Hi guys,
>
>A A Stephane Bergeron is visiting me from Paris, where he just
came from
>A A Retromobile. He told me that the former wreck of a Gr4 Pantera
#2344,
>A A the only one originally raced in the USA (by Warren Tope),
sold a
>A A couple of days ago to a German woman for 480,000 Euros!!!
>
>A A Here is an article (best ignored) about the cars generally
with good
>A A pics of the car in question:
>
>A
A [1][1][3]https://www.goodwood.com/grr/columnists/dan-trent/2018/3/
dan-trent-i
>A A s-the-de-tomaso-pantera-the-best-value-70s-supercar/
>
>A A This car led a very, very hard life. It was raced and crashed
and then
>A A subjected to several different wild 1970s body modifications
(it
>A A probably had 500 pounds of bondo and fiberglass added) and
then crashed
>A A some more. It was finally abandoned in a field in the south. A
friend
>A A went to inspect it in the late 1990s and was horrified. The
whole
>A A chassis aft of the firewall was destroyed and replaced by
bubba tube
>A A frame chassis with some sort of generic non-Pantera
suspension. Same
>A A for everything ahead of the windshield. The only part that
remained was
>A A the center structure, and that was rusted to the point of
transparency.
>A A The guy, who owns another Gr4 car and has been an expert in
the marque
>A A for decades, pronounced it beyond salvation.
>
>A A Philippe Olzyck bought it, then apparently bought a street
L-model
>A A Pantera, cut it apart and grafted the necessary bits back onto
this
>A A chassis to make it a complete car once more. I've seen it
several times
>A A at events in Europe, and it looks quite good, but the plebeian
origins
>A A of the front and rear of the car are obvious to see. (Notice
the
>A A L-Model front fenders with turn signals).
>
>A A It has been for sale off and on since about 2011, running
through this
>A A auction and that dealership with little or no apparent
success. Now
>A A somebody has finally knocked it out of the park.
>
>A A The best Gr4 car would probably struggle to be worth this much
(Les
>A A Gray, what say you?) but this one is a bitsa, with probably no
more
>A A than 10-15% original Gr4 in it. The various vendors who have
offered it
>A A for sale over the years have been rather economical with the
truth when
>A A describing it, so I hope the buyer did her homework and
decided to buy
>A A the car anyway, rather than being duped by an unscrupulous
seller.
>
>A A It will be interesting to see what becomes of it.
>
>A A It bears mentioning that the story of its sale (and the
eye-watering
>A A sales price) could be inaccurate, as it was a private sale
rather than
>A A an auction sale.A Only time will tell.....
>
>A A Mike
>A A Sent from my iPad
>
> References
>
>A A 1.
[2][4]https://www.goodwood.com/grr/columnists/dan-trent/2018/3/dan-t
rent-is-t
> he-de-tomaso-pantera-the-best-value-70s-supercar/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
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> [4][6]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.) use the li
> nks above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
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> osted here to all past, current, or future members of the list.
They also grant
> the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the
archiving of lis
> t messages.
>
> References
>
>A A 1.
[7]https://www.goodwood.com/grr/columnists/dan-trent/2018/3/dan-tren
t-i
>A A 2.
[8]https://www.goodwood.com/grr/columnists/dan-trent/2018/3/dan-tren
t-is-the-de-tomaso-pantera-the-best-value-70s-supercar/
>A A 3. mailto:[9]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>A A 4.
[10]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
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> DeTomaso mailing list
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_______________________________________________
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References
1. mailto:tipo874a at msn.com
2. mailto:willibillie at live.de
3. https://www.goodwood.com/grr/columnists/dan-trent/2018/3/dan-trent-i
4. https://www.goodwood.com/grr/columnists/dan-trent/2018/3/dan-trent-is-t
5. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
6. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
7. https://www.goodwood.com/grr/columnists/dan-trent/2018/3/dan-trent-i
8. https://www.goodwood.com/grr/columnists/dan-trent/2018/3/dan-trent-is-the-de-tomaso-pantera-the-best-value-70s-supercar/
9. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
10. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
11. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
12. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
13. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
14. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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