[DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 187, Issue 26

[owen]

Never heard of that risk but I will test the ignition temp of the stuff and report backOwenSent from Samsung tablet.
-------- Original message --------From: Dave McManus <Dave at damardirect.com> Date: 01/02/2020  20:09  (GMT+00:00) To: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>, detomaso at server.detomasolist.com, Owen Cooke <owen at tadhgcooke.com> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 187, Issue 26 I remember a discussion years ago. There was a big concern FIRE. It is/was flammable.IndyDave-----Original Message-----From: Ken Green [mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 3:57 PMTo: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com; Owen CookeSubject: Re: [DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 187, Issue 26 I read that Evans coolant has a lower heat capacity than water and the engine runs hotter. Have you seen any heat issues?Ken    On Friday, January 31, 2020, 11:05:24 AM PST, Owen Cooke <owen at tadhgcooke.com> wrote:      We are using waterless coolant now and it is a permanent solution to  boiling and corrosion Evans is the maker and a life saver  Owen cooke dublin  Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S6 - powered by Three  -------- Original message --------  From: detomaso-request at server.detomasolist.com  Date: 31/01/2020 17:00 (GMT+00:00)  To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com  Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 187, Issue 26  Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to  detomaso at server.detomasolist.com  To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit  http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso  or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to  detomaso-request at server.detomasolist.com  You can reach the person managing the list at  detomaso-owner at server.detomasolist.com  When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific  than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..."  Daily Detomaso List Digest  Today's Topics:      1. Re: Radiator (Jack Donahue)      2. Fwd: Aluminum vs brass (Jack Donahue)      3. Re: Dennis Fugnetti RIP... (Bob)      4. Re: Nice Yellow '71 Flat Deck in Portland, OR on BaT. - Sold        at $111K (Mike Thomas)      5. Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Nice Yellow '71 Flat Deck in Portland, OR        on BaT. - Sold at $111K (Himes, Terry (US 397C))      6. Techno question: stock rear brake shims (Charles Engles)      7. Re: Techno question: stock rear brake shims (Mike Drew)      8. Re: Techno question: stock rear brake shims (Mike Drew)      9. Re: Techno question: stock rear brake shims (Doug)    10. Re: Techno question: stock rear brake shims (Julian Kift)    11. Re: Techno question: stock rear brake shims (Charles Engles)    12. Re: Techno question: stock rear brake shims (Curt Hall)    13. Re: Techno question: stock rear brake shims (Charles Engles)    14. Re: Dennis Fugnetti RIP... (Scott Mead Photography)    15. Re: Dennis Fugnetti RIP... (Larry Stock)  ----------------------------------------------------------------------  Message: 1  Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 09:35:04 -0800  From: Jack Donahue <demongusta at gmail.com>  To: Jim Wallace <pantera_4220 at yahoo.com>  Cc: "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"  <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiator  Message-ID: <84656478-FAC8-4A11-8B6D-888B29A18CB2 at gmail.com>  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8  FWIW - No Rosion is used for copper/brass rads - HyperKuhl for  aluminum.  > On Jan 30, 2020, at 5:39 AM, Jim Wallace via DeTomaso  <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:  >  > I concur with Jack, replaced mine with aluminum fluidyne and it  worked just fine.  >  > Jim  >  > Sent from my iPhone  >  >> On Jan 29, 2020, at 23:29, Jack DeRyke via DeTomaso  <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:  >>  >> ?  IMHO you will get more cooling with any aluminum radiator  because they  >>  typically use 4X size tubes inside. Copper radiators cannot use  such  >>  huge inner tubes so their water flow & heat transfer is limited. I  >>  recommend an aluminum  Fluidyne which is a drop in replacement,  weighs  >>  less than half the stock unit and holds more water. It MUST be  handled  >>  carefully as soft aluminum strips threads easily and coolant MUST  be  >>  kept around pH 12.  'No-Rosion' additive is often included with  >>  aluminum radiators from vendors. Some local tap water is as acidic  as  >>  soda pop and will wreck a new aluminum rad in weeks. I don't think  >>  Ford, GM or Chrysler has used a brass rad, even in trucks, in this  >>  century.  >>  The Fluidyne can also be leaned fwd for convenience in working on a  far  >>  more efficient shrouded sucker fan system like the Flexilite. Our  >>  Fluidyne/Flexilite combo has done outstanding duty since 1995 and  still  >>  doesn't leak. From city driving , desert cruising to full-on open  >>  track. Worked for me- J DeRyke  >>  -----Original Message-----  >>  From: Himes, Terry (US 397C) via DeTomaso  >>  <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>  >>  To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com  <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>  >>  Sent: Wed, Jan 29, 2020 6:51 pm  >>  Subject: [DeTomaso] Radiator  >>  Hall is out of radiators.  I heard they had the best. My original  >>  radiator needs to be replaced.  >>  About the only thing I have not replaced, and it has always worked  >>  extremely well, even with  >>  many trips to the Vegas POCA events and all the fun-runs.  >>  Anyone know of another source of a drop-in replacement.  I don't  want  >>  to do anything crazy.  >>  (all tubes replaced with stainless steel long-ago)  >>  Thanks.  >>  Terry  >>  "A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan,  >>  stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!"  >>  Terry W. Himes  >>  JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory  >>  Deep Space Exploration a Mission Operations  >>  Dawn Spacecraft Team  >>  Juno Systems & Software Team  >>  TGO Sequence Lead  >>  MEX Sequence Lead  >>  Odyssey Sequence Team  >>  Spitzer Space Telescope Data Team  >>  Phone: (818) 393-6261  >>  Cell:    (818) 653-8213  >>  [1]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov  >>  i>>?On 1/29/20, 6:37 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of  >>  [2]charlesmccall at gmail.com"  >>  <[3]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of  >>  [4]charlesmccall at gmail.com> wrote:  >>      I realize that none of us are answering the question of where  to  >>  buy parts, and all of us are commenting the part that he already  has  >>  decided, but...  >>  >>      My conclusion after reading all the discussions over the years  is  >>  that the optimal location depends on the typical operating  conditions  >>  of the car. The stock location is probably better for cruising  around  >>  town, or for up to medium-speed trips. The stock condenser fans can  >>  pull in enough air to cool effectively and the radiator isn't  >>  obstructed during what is probably the most difficult condition to  keep  >>  cool. The front-mounted option is better if you spend most of your  time  >>  at higher highway speeds, since above X mph, it's been widely  published  >>  that a vacuum starts to form behind the condenser, and the higher  the  >>  speed, the more it struggles to get air through it. At higher  speeds,  >>  there's no issue with engine cooling since the airflow is enough to  >>  cool the radiator and the condenser, while it might struggle with  this  >>  task if it was only the fan during driving around town.  >>  >>      In my particular case, if I had it to do over I'd put it up  front.  >>  Most of my use consists of driving from one part of Europe to  another  >>  at European highway speeds. Or travelling 5-6 hours away within the  >>  same country to attend some event, but at higher speed to reach the  >>  place. I could deal with the AC off in the worst case if necessary  >>  during the puttering around in town until I got on the highway,  which  >>  is when wind noise becomes an issue in any case.  In summary,  neither  >>  system is perfect for all conditions, so you pick the system based  on  >>  your typical conditions.  >>  >>      My two rupees  >>  >>      -----Original Message-----  >>      From: DeTomaso <[5]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> On  >>  Behalf Of R.J.  >>      Sent: jueves, 30 de enero de 2020 2:10  >>      To: [6]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com  >>      Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Parts List & Sources for Pantera AC  >>  Installation  >>  >>      If done right, a front condenser works way better that the  stock  >>  system.  >>      The correct o-ring style pick ups can be soldierd on the stock  >>  evaproator.  >>  >>      Roland, who is running a front condersers since 25 years on  several  >>  Panteras.  >>  >>>      Am 29.01.2020 um 21:32 schrieb Mike Drew via DeTomaso:  >>> Mike,  >>>  >>> The Space City Pantera guys just discussed this on their forum in  >>  the past few weeks including talk of superior hoses with  quick-connect  >>  fittings.  >>>  >>> Contact John Taphorn for the specifics.  >>>  >>> Mike  >>>  >>> Sent from my iPad  >>>  >>>> On Jan 29, 2020, at 11:02, Mike & Elizabeth Thomas  >>  <[7]mbefthomas2 at gmail.com> wrote:  >>>>  >>>>  One of the major upgrades I plan to do to 6328 will be  >>  installation of  >>>>  AC - she's never had it and my lovely passenger said she  >>  won't take  >>>>  another long summer cruise without it.  OK then . . .  >>>>  >>>>  >>>>  I know this is a hotly debated subject, but I've decided to  >>  go with a  >>>>  front-mounted condenser.  That said, I will need the entire  >>  setup from  >>>>  A-Z including all hose runs, mechanical parts, electrical  >>  switches  >>>>  (thinking of going with John Haas Pantera Electronics AC  >>  controller)  >>>>  and other bits & bobs.  During the restoration, I'll have the  >>  dash out  >>>>  so will be able to make any needed changes/upgrades to any of  >>  the parts  >>>>  under the dash.  >>>>  >>>>  >>>>  Can somebody help me start getting a list of all parts needed  >>  and where  >>>>  I would source them?  >>>>  >>>>  >>>>  Thanks very much!  >>>>  >>>>  Mike Thomas  >>>>  >>>>  >>>>  Our email address has changed: Please use  >>  [1][8]mbefthomas2 at gmail.com for  >>>>  all new messages, thanks!  >>>>  >>>> References  >>>>  >>>>  1. mailto:[9]mbefthomas2 at gmail.com  >>>> _______________________________________________  >>>>  >>>>  >>>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must  >>  not  >>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list  >>>> [10]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com  >>>> [11]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso  >>>>  >>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,  >>  etc.) use the links above.  >>>>  >>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to  >>  forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future  members  >>  of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain  an  >>  archive or approve the archiving of list messages.  >>> _______________________________________________  >>>  >>>  >>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not  >>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list  >>> [12]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com  >>> [13]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso  >>>  >>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,  >>  etc.) use the links above.  >>>  >>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to  >>  forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future  members  >>  of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain  an  >>  archive or approve the archiving of list messages.  >>      _______________________________________________  >>  >>  >>      Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must  not  >>  exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list  >>  [14]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com  >>  [15]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso  >>  >>      To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,  >>  etc.) use the links above.  >>  >>      Members who post to this list grant license to the list to  forward  >>  any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of  the  >>  list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an  archive  >>  or approve the archiving of list messages.  >>  >>      _______________________________________________  >>  >>  >>      Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA  >>      Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes  >>      DeTomaso mailing list  >>      [16]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com  >>      [17]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso  >>  >>      To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,  >>  etc.) use the links above.  >>  >>      Members who post to this list grant license to the list to  forward  >>  any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of  the  >>  list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an  archive  >>  or approve the archiving of list messages.  >>  _______________________________________________  >>  Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA  >>  Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes  >>  DeTomaso mailing list  >>  [18]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com  >>  [19]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso  >>  To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,  etc.)  >>  use the links above.  >>  Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward  any  >>  message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the  >>  list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an  archive  >>  or approve the archiving of list messages.  >>  >> References  >>  >>  1. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov  >>  2. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com  >>  3. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com  >>  4. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com  >>  5. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com  >>  6. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com  >>  7. mailto:mbefthomas2 at gmail.com  >>  8. mailto:mbefthomas2 at gmail.com  >>  9. mailto:mbefthomas2 at gmail.com  >> 10. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com  >> 11. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso  >> 12. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com  >> 13. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso  >> 14. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com  >> 15. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso  >> 16. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com  >> 17. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso  >> 18. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com  >> 19. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso  >> _______________________________________________  >>  >>  >> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA  >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes  >> DeTomaso mailing list  >> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com  >> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso  >>  >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,  etc.) use the links above.  >>  >> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward  any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the  list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive  or approve the archiving of list messages.  >  > _______________________________________________  >  >  > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA  > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes  > DeTomaso mailing list  > DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com  > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso  >  > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)  use the links above.  >  > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward  any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the  list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive  or approve the archiving of list messages.  ------------------------------  Message: 2  Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 09:35:34 -0800  From: Jack Donahue <demongusta at gmail.com>  To: "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"  <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>  Subject: [DeTomaso] Fwd: Aluminum vs brass  Message-ID: <45B25543-38FD-4A3C-A276-9BF7DE3F6E87 at gmail.com>  Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"  > Begin forwarded message:  >  > From: Jay Ross <norosion at aol.com>  > Subject: Re: Aluminum vs brass  > Date: January 30, 2020 at 9:15:32 AM PST  > To: demongusta at gmail.com  >  >  > Hi Jack,  >  > We recommend HyperKuhl  for aluminum radiators, and No-Rosion for  copper/brass radiators.  >  > Thank you,  >  > -Jay  >  > --  > Jay Ross  > Applied Chemical Specialties, Inc.  > jross at norosion.com | 847-477-9262 (T) | 402-390-9262 (F)  >  > ASTM D15 Engine Coolants | D02 Petroleum/Fuels | Member #426562  > SAE Society of Automotive Engineers | Member #6135528286  >  > www.norosion.com | Leading Engine Fluid Technologies  >  >  > -----Original Message-----  > From: Jack Donahue <demongusta at gmail.com>  > To: info <info at NoRosion.com>  > Sent: Thu, Jan 30, 2020 8:09 am  > Subject: Aluminum vs brass  >  > Which product additive is better with aluminum vs brass radiators?  I?ve heard lots of controversy.  > John Donahue  -------------- next part --------------      Begin forwarded message:      From: Jay Ross <[1]norosion at aol.com>      Subject: Re: Aluminum vs brass      Date: January 30, 2020 at 9:15:32 AM PST      To: [2]demongusta at gmail.com      Hi Jack,      We recommend HyperKuhl  for aluminum radiators, and No-Rosion for      copper/brass radiators.      Thank you,      -Jay  --  Jay Ross  Applied Chemical Specialties, Inc.  [3]jross at norosion.com | 847-477-9262 (T) | 402-390-9262 (F)  ASTM D15 Engine Coolants | D02 Petroleum/Fuels | Member #426562  SAE Society of Automotive Engineers | Member #6135528286  [4]www.norosion.com | Leading Engine Fluid Technologies      -----Original Message-----      From: Jack Donahue <[5]demongusta at gmail.com>      To: info <[6]info at NoRosion.com>      Sent: Thu, Jan 30, 2020 8:09 am      Subject: Aluminum vs brass      Which product additive is better with aluminum vs brass radiators?  I've      heard lots of controversy.      John Donahue  References      1. mailto:norosion at aol.com      2. mailto:demongusta at gmail.com      3. mailto:jross at norosion.com      4. http://www.norosion.com/      5. mailto:demongusta at gmail.com      6. mailto:info at NoRosion.com  ------------------------------  Message: 3  Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 18:03:50 +0000 (UTC)  From: Bob <p6746 at aol.com>  To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Dennis Fugnetti RIP...  Message-ID: <876538158.1598069.1580407430512 at mail.yahoo.com>  Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"  I also have the poster of image 0 at the entrance to my office, which I  see and smile at several time a day.? In fact I used his car the basis  for what I wanted to do to our car during restoration in the 80's and  90's. RIP Dennis.? Bob Reid  In a message dated 1/29/2020 4:28:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,  detomaso at server.detomasolist.com writes:  ? I got the poster you have as image0 in like 1985, and it still graces  ? the wall of my study / man cave. It was probably partly responsible  for  ? my buying a Pantera  ? RIP  ? -----Original Message-----  ? From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>  ? To: De Tomaso Forum <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>  ? Sent: Wed, Jan 29, 2020 1:14 pm  ? Subject: [DeTomaso] Dennis Fugnetti RIP...  ? ? All,  ? ? Those who were around in the 80s may remember the name Dennis  ? Fugnetti.  ? ? ? He was a well-known fine arts automotive photographer in Southern  ? ? California, who owned an exquisite twin-turbo Pantera. He produced  ? ? several posters featuring his car (one inexplicably including  ? stylized  ? ? representations of a polished Mangusta wheel?), and his car was  ? ? featured on the cover and inside the first really fine book on the  ? ? marque, Panteras For The Road by Henry Rasmussen:  ? ? [cid:ABB23469-668F-4040-BBCB-D55370791076-L0-001]  ? ? [cid:C26B6DC1-4F99-4A95-8849-A4C416ACC38F-L0-001]  ? ? [cid:EAC00BF7-F951-40B3-AAD5-1FBB3B1C97F3-L0-001]  ? ? [cid:7CF1991B-0F9C-4ED5-BB89-DD0E5954A82F-L0-001]  ? ? Jeff Maxwell informed me the other day that Dennis has passed away.  ? His  ? ? business lives on, shared with his daughter:  ? ? [1][1]https://www.fugnettiimages.com/page/about2  ? ? I only met him once, at Concorso Italiano long after he sold his  ? ? Pantera. He was much younger than I was expecting him to be, not  all  ? ? that much older than me. He was also extremely friendly and  ? personable.  ? ? My condolences to his family for what has to have been an untimely  ? ? passing. :(  ? ? I once found his old Pantera rotting at a used car lot in Monterey,  ? ? sitting outdoors. This was in the early 1990s. The beautiful  polished  ? ? engine looked like crap as the elements had taken their  ? ? toll--everything was corroded.? I took it for a test drive and it  ran  ? ? like crap too.? The turbos weren't dialed in so it ran terribly,  then  ? ? spectacularly overheated and blew its water all over the place. We  ? ? barely made it back to the dealer.? It had been a fine car when he  ? ? owned it, so it's sad the subsequent owner or owners really let it  ? fall  ? ? apart.  ? ? It was later bought by a Silicon Valley guy who retrofitted a  ? standard  ? ? motor, then quickly tired of it and sold it to buy a Ferrari 308  from  ? ? the divorcing Lee Majors and Farrah Fawcett-Majors. I then lost  touch  ? ? with it. I think it's still floating around in So-Cal?  ? ? Spare Dennis a thought each time you admire his timeless poster,  ? which  ? ? many, many of us have hanging on our walls.....  ? ? Mike  ? ? Sent from my iPad  ? References  ? ? 1. [2]https://www.fugnettiimages.com/page/about2  ? _______________________________________________  ? Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA  ? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes  ? DeTomaso mailing list  ? [3]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com  ? [4]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso  ? To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)  ? use the links above.  ? Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward  any  ? message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the  ? list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an  archive  ? or approve the archiving of list messages.  References  ? 1. https://www.fugnettiimages.com/page/about2  ? 2. https://www.fugnettiimages.com/page/about2  ? 3. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com  ? 4.  http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_______________  ________________________________  Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA  Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes  DeTomaso mailing list  DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com  http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso  To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)  use the links above.  Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any  message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the  list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive  or approve the archiving of list messages.  -------------- next part --------------      I also have the poster of image 0 at the entrance to my office,  which I      see and smile at several time a day.  In fact I used his car the  basis      for what I wanted to do to our car during restoration in the 80's  and      90's. RIP Dennis.  Bob Reid      In a message dated 1/29/2020 4:28:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,      detomaso at server.detomasolist.com writes:        I got the poster you have as image0 in like 1985, and it still  graces        the wall of my study / man cave. It was probably partly  responsible      for        my buying a Pantera        RIP        -----Original Message-----        From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[1]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>        To: De Tomaso Forum <[2]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>        Sent: Wed, Jan 29, 2020 1:14 pm        Subject: [DeTomaso] Dennis Fugnetti RIP...          All,          Those who were around in the 80s may remember the name Dennis        Fugnetti.            He was a well-known fine arts automotive photographer in  Southern          California, who owned an exquisite twin-turbo Pantera. He  produced          several posters featuring his car (one inexplicably including        stylized          representations of a polished Mangusta wheel?), and his car was          featured on the cover and inside the first really fine book on  the          marque, Panteras For The Road by Henry Rasmussen:          [cid:ABB23469-668F-4040-BBCB-D55370791076-L0-001]          [cid:C26B6DC1-4F99-4A95-8849-A4C416ACC38F-L0-001]          [cid:EAC00BF7-F951-40B3-AAD5-1FBB3B1C97F3-L0-001]          [cid:7CF1991B-0F9C-4ED5-BB89-DD0E5954A82F-L0-001]          Jeff Maxwell informed me the other day that Dennis has passed  away.        His          business lives on, shared with his daughter:          [1][1][3]https://www.fugnettiimages.com/page/about2          I only met him once, at Concorso Italiano long after he sold his          Pantera. He was much younger than I was expecting him to be, not      all          that much older than me. He was also extremely friendly and        personable.          My condolences to his family for what has to have been an  untimely          passing. :(          I once found his old Pantera rotting at a used car lot in  Monterey,          sitting outdoors. This was in the early 1990s. The beautiful      polished          engine looked like crap as the elements had taken their          toll--everything was corroded.  I took it for a test drive and  it      ran          like crap too.  The turbos weren't dialed in so it ran terribly,      then          spectacularly overheated and blew its water all over the place.  We          barely made it back to the dealer.  It had been a fine car when  he          owned it, so it's sad the subsequent owner or owners really let  it        fall          apart.          It was later bought by a Silicon Valley guy who retrofitted a        standard          motor, then quickly tired of it and sold it to buy a Ferrari 308      from          the divorcing Lee Majors and Farrah Fawcett-Majors. I then lost      touch          with it. I think it's still floating around in So-Cal?          Spare Dennis a thought each time you admire his timeless poster,        which          many, many of us have hanging on our walls.....          Mike          Sent from my iPad        References          1. [2][4]https://www.fugnettiimages.com/page/about2        _______________________________________________        Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA        Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes        DeTomaso mailing list        [3][5]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com        [4][6]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso        To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,  etc.)        use the links above.        Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward      any        message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the        list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an      archive        or approve the archiving of list messages.      References        1. [7]https://www.fugnettiimages.com/page/about2        2. [8]https://www.fugnettiimages.com/page/about2        3. mailto:[9]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com        4. [10]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso      _______________________________________________      Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA      Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes      DeTomaso mailing list      [11]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com      [12]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso      To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,  etc.)      use the links above.      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References      1. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com      2. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com      3. https://www.fugnettiimages.com/page/about2      4. https://www.fugnettiimages.com/page/about2      5. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com      6. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso      7. https://www.fugnettiimages.com/page/about2      8. https://www.fugnettiimages.com/page/about2      9. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com    10. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso    11. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com    12. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso  ------------------------------  Message: 4  Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 11:53:33 -0800  From: "Mike Thomas" <mbefthomas at comcast.net>  To: "'Mike & Elizabeth Thomas'" <mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>,  <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Nice Yellow '71 Flat Deck in Portland, OR on  BaT. - Sold at $111K  Message-ID: <0bfe01d5d7a6$f4b84e40$de28eac0$@comcast.net>  Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"  Well sold.  -----Original Message-----  From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> On Behalf Of  Mike  & Elizabeth Thomas  Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2020 7:56 AM  To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com  Subject: [DeTomaso] Nice Yellow '71 Flat Deck in Portland, OR on BaT.  Currently at $82K.  <https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1971-detomaso-pantera-43/>  https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1971-detomaso-pantera-43/  Mike Thomas  Our email address has changed: Please use mbefthomas2 at gmail.com  <mailto:mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>  for all new messages, thanks!  ------------------------------  Message: 5  Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 20:51:55 +0000  From: "Himes, Terry (US 397C)" <terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov>  To: "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"  <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] [EXTERNAL] Re: Nice Yellow '71 Flat Deck in  Portland, OR on BaT. - Sold at $111K  Message-ID: <EA5D0100-B057-4925-88F9-525B70B58C3E at jpl.nasa.gov>  Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"  BaT Yellow Pantera sold for $111k.  today. yippee  Yellow one's always rule!!  __  "A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan,  stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!"  Terry W. Himes  JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory  Deep Space Exploration ? Mission Operations  Dawn Spacecraft Team  Juno Systems & Software Team  TGO Sequence Lead  MEX Sequence Lead  Odyssey Sequence Team  Spitzer Space Telescope Data Team  Phone: (818) 393-6261  Cell:    (818) 653-8213  thimes at jpl.nasa.gov  ?On 1/30/20, 11:53 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Mike Thomas"  <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of  mbefthomas at comcast.net> wrote:      Well sold.      -----Original Message-----      From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> On Behalf  Of Mike      & Elizabeth Thomas      Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2020 7:56 AM      To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com      Subject: [DeTomaso] Nice Yellow '71 Flat Deck in Portland, OR on  BaT.      Currently at $82K.        <https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1971-detomaso-pantera-43/>      https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1971-detomaso-pantera-43/      Mike Thomas      Our email address has changed: Please use mbefthomas2 at gmail.com      <mailto:mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>  for all new messages, thanks!      _______________________________________________      Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA      Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes      DeTomaso mailing list      DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com      http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso      To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,  etc.) use the links above.      Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward  any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the  list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive  or approve the archiving of list messages.  -------------- next part --------------  A non-text attachment was scrubbed...  Name: Screenshot 2020-01-30 12.23.54.png  Type: image/png  Size: 28708 bytes  Desc: Screenshot 2020-01-30 12.23.54.png  URL:  <http://server.detomasolist.com/pipermail/detomaso/attachments/20200130  /83fa6e50/attachment-0001.png>  ------------------------------  Message: 6  Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 17:12:01 -0600  From: "Charles Engles" <cengles at cox.net>  To: <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>  Subject: [DeTomaso] Techno question: stock rear brake shims  Message-ID: <006401d5d7c2$af070dc0$0d152940$@cox.net>  Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"  Dear Forum,                An Oklahoma Pantera owner bought a set of re-built brakes  from  one of our vendors, who is gone until next week.  The problem is that  the  stock shims for the rear calipers were not shipped.  The dumb question  is  whether the front shims will fit the rear calipers.  We do have an  extra set  of front shims, but I do not think that they'll fit.  Anyone with  actual  knowledge of this bit of stock brake trivia??                                  Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles  -------------- next part --------------      Dear Forum,                    An Oklahoma Pantera owner bought a set of re-built  brakes      from one of our vendors, who is gone until next week.  The problem  is      that the stock shims for the rear calipers were not shipped.  The  dumb      question is whether the front shims will fit the rear calipers.  We  do      have an extra set of front shims, but I do not think that they'll      fit.  Anyone with actual knowledge of this bit of stock brake  trivia??                                    Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles  ------------------------------  Message: 7  Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 16:15:26 -0800  From: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>  To: Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net>  Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: stock rear brake shims  Message-ID: <B4A76F89-90C8-4699-B491-F27004732BD8 at aol.com>  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii  Chuck,  Two things:  1). Front and rear caliper bolt spacing is different. You can't put a  front anything on the rear.  2). Rear calipers don't have shims. :)  Both front and rear have locking tabs which go immediately underneath  the head of the mounting bolts, but they are not shims. They have tabs  which are bent up to prevent bolt rotation. Front calipers also have  shims between caliper and upright which spaces the caliper inboard by  the thickness of the shim.  The caliper locking tabs for the GT5 (which has different calipers with  different bolt spacing for the different spindles/rear uprights) are  very cheap. However the ones for the early cars are obscenely expensive  for what they are.  Look at Wilkinson's website for exploded drawings and associated parts  descriptions with eye-watering prices for the locking tabs....  Mike  Sent from my iPhone  > On Jan 30, 2020, at 15:12, Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net> wrote:  >  >  Dear Forum,  >  >  >                An Oklahoma Pantera owner bought a set of re-built  brakes  >  from one of our vendors, who is gone until next week.  The problem  is  >  that the stock shims for the rear calipers were not shipped.  The  dumb  >  question is whether the front shims will fit the rear calipers.  We  do  >  have an extra set of front shims, but I do not think that they'll  >  fit.  Anyone with actual knowledge of this bit of stock brake  trivia??  >  >  >                                  Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles  >  > _______________________________________________  >  >  > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA  > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes  > DeTomaso mailing list  > DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com  > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso  >  > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)  use the links above.  >  > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward  any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the  list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive  or approve the archiving of list messages.  ------------------------------  Message: 8  Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 16:15:26 -0800  From: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>  To: Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net>  Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: stock rear brake shims  Message-ID: <B4A76F89-90C8-4699-B491-F27004732BD8 at aol.com>  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii  Chuck,  Two things:  1). Front and rear caliper bolt spacing is different. You can't put a  front anything on the rear.  2). Rear calipers don't have shims. :)  Both front and rear have locking tabs which go immediately underneath  the head of the mounting bolts, but they are not shims. They have tabs  which are bent up to prevent bolt rotation. Front calipers also have  shims between caliper and upright which spaces the caliper inboard by  the thickness of the shim.  The caliper locking tabs for the GT5 (which has different calipers with  different bolt spacing for the different spindles/rear uprights) are  very cheap. However the ones for the early cars are obscenely expensive  for what they are.  Look at Wilkinson's website for exploded drawings and associated parts  descriptions with eye-watering prices for the locking tabs....  Mike  Sent from my iPhone  > On Jan 30, 2020, at 15:12, Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net> wrote:  >  >  Dear Forum,  >  >  >                An Oklahoma Pantera owner bought a set of re-built  brakes  >  from one of our vendors, who is gone until next week.  The problem  is  >  that the stock shims for the rear calipers were not shipped.  The  dumb  >  question is whether the front shims will fit the rear calipers.  We  do  >  have an extra set of front shims, but I do not think that they'll  >  fit.  Anyone with actual knowledge of this bit of stock brake  trivia??  >  >  >                                  Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles  >  > _______________________________________________  >  >  > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA  > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes  > DeTomaso mailing list  > DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com  > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso  >  > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)  use the links above.  >  > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward  any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the  list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive  or approve the archiving of list messages.  ------------------------------  Message: 9  Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 16:36:54 -0800  From: "Doug" <doug351c at gmail.com>  To: "'Charles Engles'" <cengles at cox.net>,  <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: stock rear brake shims  Message-ID: <00ae01d5d7ce$8aa4ab20$9fee0160$@gmail.com>  Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"  Chuck,  The front spacers will definitely NOT fit the rear.  The fronts have a 76mm bolt spacing while the rears have a 60mm  spacing.  Doug Braun  Blue 73L #5505  -----Original Message-----  From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On  Behalf  Of Charles Engles  Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2020 3:12 PM  To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com  Subject: [DeTomaso] Techno question: stock rear brake shims  Dear Forum,                An Oklahoma Pantera owner bought a set of re-built brakes  from  one of our vendors, who is gone until next week.  The problem is that  the  stock shims for the rear calipers were not shipped.  The dumb question  is  whether the front shims will fit the rear calipers.  We do have an  extra set  of front shims, but I do not think that they'll fit.  Anyone with  actual  knowledge of this bit of stock brake trivia??                                  Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles  ------------------------------  Message: 10  Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 00:47:59 +0000  From: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>  To: Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net>, Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>  Cc: "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"  <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: stock rear brake shims  Message-ID:  <BYAPR08MB6118F1AE1B727EF2CF4AFF0F95070 at BYAPR08MB6118.namprd08.prod.out  look.com>  Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"  They would be a fairly easy part to take to a local shop and get a  bunch laser cut, you'd have thought a vendor would have been all over  this as the lock tabs are a consumable that weakens after a couple uses  and the tab breaks off. The caliper bolt spacing isn't that uncommon of  the era, surely someone must sell equivalent lock tabs that don't come  in a De Tomaso plastic bag....?  Alternatively one could drill the bolt heads for safety wiring, or  purchase pre-drilled bolts. The second option may be more expensive  than new lock tabs in the short term, but almost infinitely reusable.  Julian  ________________________________  From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of  Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>  Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2020 4:15 PM  To: Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net>  Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: stock rear brake shims  Chuck,  Two things:  1). Front and rear caliper bolt spacing is different. You can't put a  front anything on the rear.  2). Rear calipers don't have shims. :)  Both front and rear have locking tabs which go immediately underneath  the head of the mounting bolts, but they are not shims. They have tabs  which are bent up to prevent bolt rotation. Front calipers also have  shims between caliper and upright which spaces the caliper inboard by  the thickness of the shim.  The caliper locking tabs for the GT5 (which has different calipers with  different bolt spacing for the different spindles/rear uprights) are  very cheap. However the ones for the early cars are obscenely expensive  for what they are.  Look at Wilkinson's website for exploded drawings and associated parts  descriptions with eye-watering prices for the locking tabs....  Mike  Sent from my iPhone  > On Jan 30, 2020, at 15:12, Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net> wrote:  >  >  Dear Forum,  >  >  >                An Oklahoma Pantera owner bought a set of re-built  brakes  >  from one of our vendors, who is gone until next week.  The problem  is  >  that the stock shims for the rear calipers were not shipped.  The  dumb  >  question is whether the front shims will fit the rear calipers.  We  do  >  have an extra set of front shims, but I do not think that they'll  >  fit.  Anyone with actual knowledge of this bit of stock brake  trivia??  >  >  >                                  Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles  >  > _______________________________________________  >  >  > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA  > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes  > DeTomaso mailing list  > DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com  > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso  >  > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)  use the links above.  >  > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward  any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the  list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive  or approve the archiving of list messages.  _______________________________________________  Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA  Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes  DeTomaso mailing list  DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com  http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso  To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)  use the links above.  Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any  message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the  list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive  or approve the archiving of list messages.  -------------- next part --------------      They would be a fairly easy part to take to a local shop and get a      bunch laser cut, you'd have thought a vendor would have been all  over      this as the lock tabs are a consumable that weakens after a couple  uses      and the tab breaks off. The caliper bolt spacing isn't that uncommon  of      the era, surely someone must sell equivalent lock tabs that don't  come      in a De Tomaso plastic bag....?      Alternatively one could drill the bolt heads for safety wiring, or      purchase pre-drilled bolts. The second option may be more expensive      than new lock tabs in the short term, but almost infinitely  reusable.      Julian        __________________________________________________________________      From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf  of      Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>      Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2020 4:15 PM      To: Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net>      Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com  <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>      Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: stock rear brake shims      Chuck,      Two things:      1). Front and rear caliper bolt spacing is different. You can't put  a      front anything on the rear.      2). Rear calipers don't have shims. :)      Both front and rear have locking tabs which go immediately  underneath      the head of the mounting bolts, but they are not shims. They have  tabs      which are bent up to prevent bolt rotation. Front calipers also have      shims between caliper and upright which spaces the caliper inboard  by      the thickness of the shim.      The caliper locking tabs for the GT5 (which has different calipers  with      different bolt spacing for the different spindles/rear uprights) are      very cheap. However the ones for the early cars are obscenely  expensive      for what they are.      Look at Wilkinson's website for exploded drawings and associated  parts      descriptions with eye-watering prices for the locking tabs....      Mike      Sent from my iPhone      > On Jan 30, 2020, at 15:12, Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net> wrote:      >      >  Dear Forum,      >      >      >                An Oklahoma Pantera owner bought a set of re-built      brakes      >  from one of our vendors, who is gone until next week.  The  problem      is      >  that the stock shims for the rear calipers were not shipped.  The      dumb      >  question is whether the front shims will fit the rear calipers.  We      do      >  have an extra set of front shims, but I do not think that  they'll      >  fit.  Anyone with actual knowledge of this bit of stock brake      trivia??      >      >      >                                  Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles      >      > _______________________________________________      >      >      > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA      > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes      > DeTomaso mailing list      > DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com      > [1]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso      >      > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,  etc.)      use the links above.      >      > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward      any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of  the      list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an  archive      or approve the archiving of list messages.      _______________________________________________      Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA      Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes      DeTomaso mailing list      DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com      [2]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso      To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,  etc.)      use the links above.      Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward  any      message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the      list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an  archive      or approve the archiving of list messages.  References      1. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso      2. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso  ------------------------------  Message: 11  Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 19:15:51 -0600  From: "Charles Engles" <cengles at cox.net>  To: "'Mike Drew'" <MikeLDrew at aol.com>, <doug351c at gmail.com>, "'Julian  Kift'" <julian_kift at hotmail.com>  Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: stock rear brake shims  Message-ID: <007c01d5d7d3$fbd8ac10$f38a0430$@cox.net>  Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"  Dear Mike, Doug and Julian,                  Thanks for the help.  The brake install is back on  track.                                    Warmest regards, Chuck Engles  -----Original Message-----  From: Mike Drew [mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com]  Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2020 6:15 PM  To: Charles Engles  Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: stock rear brake shims  Chuck,  Two things:  1). Front and rear caliper bolt spacing is different. You can't put a  front  anything on the rear.  2). Rear calipers don't have shims. :)  Both front and rear have locking tabs which go immediately underneath  the  head of the mounting bolts, but they are not shims. They have tabs  which are  bent up to prevent bolt rotation. Front calipers also have shims  between  caliper and upright which spaces the caliper inboard by the thickness  of the  shim.  The caliper locking tabs for the GT5 (which has different calipers with  different bolt spacing for the different spindles/rear uprights) are  very  cheap. However the ones for the early cars are obscenely expensive for  what  they are.  Look at Wilkinson's website for exploded drawings and associated parts  descriptions with eye-watering prices for the locking tabs....  Mike  Sent from my iPhone  > On Jan 30, 2020, at 15:12, Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net> wrote:  >  >  Dear Forum,  >  >  >                An Oklahoma Pantera owner bought a set of re-built  brakes  >  from one of our vendors, who is gone until next week.  The problem  is  >  that the stock shims for the rear calipers were not shipped.  The  dumb  >  question is whether the front shims will fit the rear calipers.  We  do  >  have an extra set of front shims, but I do not think that they'll  >  fit.  Anyone with actual knowledge of this bit of stock brake  trivia??  >  >  >                                  Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles  >  > _______________________________________________  >  >  > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA  > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes  > DeTomaso mailing list  > DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com  > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso  >  > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)  use  the links above.  >  > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward  any  message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the  list.  They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or  approve  the archiving of list messages.  ------------------------------  Message: 12  Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 02:58:13 +0000 (UTC)  From: Curt Hall <cuvee at sbcglobal.net>  To: Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net>, Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>  Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: stock rear brake shims  Message-ID: <1126293398.505520.1580439493933 at mail.yahoo.com>  Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"  Interesting...Always Wonder why People didn't Front Brakes on the Rear!  Even with a Custom Bracket?      On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 04:15:51 PM PST, Mike Drew via  DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:  Chuck,  Two things:  1). Front and rear caliper bolt spacing is different. You can't put a  front anything on the rear.  2). Rear calipers don't have shims. :)  Both front and rear have locking tabs which go immediately underneath  the head of the mounting bolts, but they are not shims. They have tabs  which are bent up to prevent bolt rotation. Front calipers also have  shims between caliper and upright which spaces the caliper inboard by  the thickness of the shim.  The caliper locking tabs for the GT5 (which has different calipers with  different bolt spacing for the different spindles/rear uprights) are  very cheap. However the ones for the early cars are obscenely expensive  for what they are.  Look at Wilkinson's website for exploded drawings and associated parts  descriptions with eye-watering prices for the locking tabs....  Mike  Sent from my iPhone  > On Jan 30, 2020, at 15:12, Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net> wrote:  >  >? Dear Forum,  >  >  >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? An Oklahoma Pantera owner bought a set of re-built  brakes  >? from one of our vendors, who is gone until next week.? The problem  is  >? that the stock shims for the rear calipers were not shipped.? The  dumb  >? question is whether the front shims will fit the rear calipers.? We  do  >? have an extra set of front shims, but I do not think that they'll  >? fit.? Anyone with actual knowledge of this bit of stock brake  trivia??  >  >  >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Warmest regards,? Chuck Engles  >  > _______________________________________________  >  >  > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA  > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes  > DeTomaso mailing list  > DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com  > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso  >  > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)  use the links above.  >  > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward  any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the  list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive  or approve the archiving of list messages.  _______________________________________________  Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA  Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes  DeTomaso mailing list  DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com  http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso  To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)  use the links above.  Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any  message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the  list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive  or approve the archiving of list messages.  -------------- next part --------------      Interesting...Always Wonder why People didn't Front Brakes on the  Rear!      Even with a Custom Bracket?      On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 04:15:51 PM PST, Mike Drew via  DeTomaso      <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:      Chuck,      Two things:      1). Front and rear caliper bolt spacing is different. You can't put  a      front anything on the rear.      2). Rear calipers don't have shims. :)      Both front and rear have locking tabs which go immediately  underneath      the head of the mounting bolts, but they are not shims. They have  tabs      which are bent up to prevent bolt rotation. Front calipers also have      shims between caliper and upright which spaces the caliper inboard  by      the thickness of the shim.      The caliper locking tabs for the GT5 (which has different calipers  with      different bolt spacing for the different spindles/rear uprights) are      very cheap. However the ones for the early cars are obscenely  expensive      for what they are.      Look at Wilkinson's website for exploded drawings and associated  parts      descriptions with eye-watering prices for the locking tabs....      Mike      Sent from my iPhone      > On Jan 30, 2020, at 15:12, Charles Engles <[1]cengles at cox.net>  wrote:      >      >  Dear Forum,      >      >      >                An Oklahoma Pantera owner bought a set of re-built      brakes      >  from one of our vendors, who is gone until next week.  The  problem      is      >  that the stock shims for the rear calipers were not shipped.  The      dumb      >  question is whether the front shims will fit the rear calipers.  We      do      >  have an extra set of front shims, but I do not think that they'll      >  fit.  Anyone with actual knowledge of this bit of stock brake      trivia??      >      >      >                                  Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles      >      > _______________________________________________      >      >      > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA      > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes      > DeTomaso mailing list      > [2]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com      > [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso      >      > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,  etc.)      use the links above.      >      > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward      any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of  the      list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an  archive      or approve the archiving of list messages.      _______________________________________________      Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA      Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes      DeTomaso mailing list      [4]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com      [5]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso      To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,  etc.)      use the links above.      Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward  any      message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the      list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an  archive      or approve the archiving of list messages.  References      1. mailto:cengles at cox.net      2. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com      3. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso      4. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com      5. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso  ------------------------------  Message: 13  Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 21:36:18 -0600  From: "Charles Engles" <cengles at cox.net>  To: "'Curt Hall'" <cuvee at sbcglobal.net>, "'Mike Drew'"  <MikeLDrew at aol.com>  Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: stock rear brake shims  Message-ID: <009301d5d7e7$9ad64ad0$d082e070$@cox.net>  Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"  Dear Curt,                Good question.  I do not know the answer.                I do recall the rear brake mod of the eighties to put a  second rear caliper on the rear.  It didn?t catch on, but some people  were trying to get more brake power on the rear brake rotors and they  used a second small stock rear caliper rather than a front one as you  suggest.  I suspect that the obstacle is space for a caliper the size  of the front plus custom mount plus the cable actuated parking brake.              That is my guess which awaits factual refutation.  FWIW.                                  Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles  From: Curt Hall [mailto:cuvee at sbcglobal.net]  Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2020 8:58 PM  To: Charles Engles; Mike Drew  Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: stock rear brake shims  Interesting...Always Wonder why People didn't Front Brakes on the Rear!  Even with a Custom Bracket?  On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 04:15:51 PM PST, Mike Drew via DeTomaso  <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:  Chuck,  Two things:  1). Front and rear caliper bolt spacing is different. You can't put a  front anything on the rear.  2). Rear calipers don't have shims. :)  Both front and rear have locking tabs which go immediately underneath  the head of the mounting bolts, but they are not shims. They have tabs  which are bent up to prevent bolt rotation. Front calipers also have  shims between caliper and upright which spaces the caliper inboard by  the thickness of the shim.  The caliper locking tabs for the GT5 (which has different calipers with  different bolt spacing for the different spindles/rear uprights) are  very cheap. However the ones for the early cars are obscenely expensive  for what they are.  Look at Wilkinson's website for exploded drawings and associated parts  descriptions with eye-watering prices for the locking tabs....  Mike  Sent from my iPhone  > On Jan 30, 2020, at 15:12, Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net> wrote:  >  >  Dear Forum,  >  >  >                An Oklahoma Pantera owner bought a set of re-built  brakes  >  from one of our vendors, who is gone until next week.  The problem  is  >  that the stock shims for the rear calipers were not shipped.  The  dumb  >  question is whether the front shims will fit the rear calipers.  We  do  >  have an extra set of front shims, but I do not think that they'll  >  fit.  Anyone with actual knowledge of this bit of stock brake  trivia??  >  >  >                                  Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles  >  > _______________________________________________  >  >  > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA  > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes  > DeTomaso mailing list  > DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com  > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso  >  > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)  use the links above.  >  > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward  any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the  list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive  or approve the archiving of list messages.  _______________________________________________  Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA  Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes  DeTomaso mailing list  DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com  http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso  To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)  use the links above.  Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any  message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the  list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive  or approve the archiving of list messages.  -------------- next part --------------      Dear Curt,                  Good question.  I do not know the answer.                  I do recall the rear brake mod of the eighties to put a      second rear caliper on the rear.  It didn't catch on, but some  people      were trying to get more brake power on the rear brake rotors and  they      used a second small stock rear caliper rather than a front one as  you      suggest.  I suspect that the obstacle is space for a caliper the  size      of the front plus custom mount plus the cable actuated parking  brake.                  That is my guess which awaits factual refutation.  FWIW.                                    Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles      From: Curt Hall [mailto:cuvee at sbcglobal.net]      Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2020 8:58 PM      To: Charles Engles; Mike Drew      Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com      Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: stock rear brake shims      Interesting...Always Wonder why People didn't Front Brakes on the  Rear!      Even with a Custom Bracket?      On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 04:15:51 PM PST, Mike Drew via  DeTomaso      <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:      Chuck,      Two things:      1). Front and rear caliper bolt spacing is different. You can't put  a      front anything on the rear.      2). Rear calipers don't have shims. :)      Both front and rear have locking tabs which go immediately  underneath      the head of the mounting bolts, but they are not shims. They have  tabs      which are bent up to prevent bolt rotation. Front calipers also have      shims between caliper and upright which spaces the caliper inboard  by      the thickness of the shim.      The caliper locking tabs for the GT5 (which has different calipers  with      different bolt spacing for the different spindles/rear uprights) are      very cheap. However the ones for the early cars are obscenely  expensive      for what they are.      Look at Wilkinson's website for exploded drawings and associated  parts      descriptions with eye-watering prices for the locking tabs....      Mike      Sent from my iPhone      > On Jan 30, 2020, at 15:12, Charles Engles <[1]cengles at cox.net>  wrote:      >      >  Dear Forum,      >      >      >                An Oklahoma Pantera owner bought a set of re-built      brakes      >  from one of our vendors, who is gone until next week.  The  problem      is      >  that the stock shims for the rear calipers were not shipped.  The      dumb      >  question is whether the front shims will fit the rear calipers.  We      do      >  have an extra set of front shims, but I do not think that they'll      >  fit.  Anyone with actual knowledge of this bit of stock brake      trivia??      >      >      >                                  Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles      >      > _______________________________________________      >      >      > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA      > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes      > DeTomaso mailing list      > [2]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com      > [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso      >      > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,  etc.)      use the links above.      >      > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward      any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of  the      list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an  archive      or approve the archiving of list messages.      _______________________________________________      Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA      Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes      DeTomaso mailing list      [4]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com      [5]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso      To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,  etc.)      use the links above.      Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward  any      message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the      list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an  archive      or approve the archiving of list messages.  References      1. mailto:cengles at cox.net      2. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com      3. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso      4. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com      5. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso  ------------------------------  Message: 14  Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 07:40:38 -0800  From: Scott Mead Photography <scott at scottmeadphotography.com>  To: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>  Cc: De Tomaso Forum <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Dennis Fugnetti RIP...  Message-ID:  <6A8824A9-81A5-483A-9AF0-BE64DB77CDE5 at scottmeadphotography.com>  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8  Such sad news. I?ve know Dennis since I was a kid. I have vivid  memories of Dennis, blasting past my grandfather and I, on a trek to  Monterey in the ?80s - twin turbos at full song. He was an amazing  photographer, and one of my inspirations to shoot vehicles myself. His  sense of lighting, scale and design is unparalleled. He could make an  ugly duckling look like a prince, and a Countach the lust of every boy  that could afford a poster. His rear-quarter shot of a Lamborghini  Miura that was posted last year, captured the complete essence of the  car in a single shot.  Aside from being a fantastic shooter, he was true car guy and one of  the nicest people I?ve ever met. RIP, Dennis. Keep those turbos spoiled  at full song.  Sent from my iPhone  >> On Jan 29, 2020, at 1:14 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso  <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:  > ?  All,  >  >  Those who were around in the 80s may remember the name Dennis  Fugnetti.  >    He was a well-known fine arts automotive photographer in Southern  >  California, who owned an exquisite twin-turbo Pantera. He produced  >  several posters featuring his car (one inexplicably including  stylized  >  representations of a polished Mangusta wheel?), and his car was  >  featured on the cover and inside the first really fine book on the  >  marque, Panteras For The Road by Henry Rasmussen:  >  >  [cid:ABB23469-668F-4040-BBCB-D55370791076-L0-001]  >  [cid:C26B6DC1-4F99-4A95-8849-A4C416ACC38F-L0-001]  >  [cid:EAC00BF7-F951-40B3-AAD5-1FBB3B1C97F3-L0-001]  >  [cid:7CF1991B-0F9C-4ED5-BB89-DD0E5954A82F-L0-001]  >  >  Jeff Maxwell informed me the other day that Dennis has passed away.  His  >  business lives on, shared with his daughter:  >  >  [1]https://www.fugnettiimages.com/page/about2  >  >  I only met him once, at Concorso Italiano long after he sold his  >  Pantera. He was much younger than I was expecting him to be, not  all  >  that much older than me. He was also extremely friendly and  personable.  >  My condolences to his family for what has to have been an untimely  >  passing. :(  >  >  I once found his old Pantera rotting at a used car lot in Monterey,  >  sitting outdoors. This was in the early 1990s. The beautiful  polished  >  engine looked like crap as the elements had taken their  >  toll--everything was corroded.  I took it for a test drive and it  ran  >  like crap too.  The turbos weren't dialed in so it ran terribly,  then  >  spectacularly overheated and blew its water all over the place. We  >  barely made it back to the dealer.  It had been a fine car when he  >  owned it, so it's sad the subsequent owner or owners really let it  fall  >  apart.  >  >  It was later bought by a Silicon Valley guy who retrofitted a  standard  >  motor, then quickly tired of it and sold it to buy a Ferrari 308  from  >  the divorcing Lee Majors and Farrah Fawcett-Majors. I then lost  touch  >  with it. I think it's still floating around in So-Cal?  >  >  Spare Dennis a thought each time you admire his timeless poster,  which  >  many, many of us have hanging on our walls.....  >  >  Mike  >  Sent from my iPad  >  > References  >  >  1. https://www.fugnettiimages.com/page/about2  > _______________________________________________  >  >  > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA  > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes  > DeTomaso mailing list  > DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com  > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso  >  > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)  use the links above.  >  > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward  any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the  list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive  or approve the archiving of list messages.  ------------------------------  Message: 15  Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 08:28:27 -0800  From: Larry Stock <larrys at panteraparts.com>  To: Scott Mead Photography <scott at scottmeadphotography.com>, Mike Drew  <MikeLDrew at aol.com>  Cc: De Tomaso Forum <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Dennis Fugnetti RIP...  Message-ID: <E517A392-9046-45DB-A309-B17A3526F61F at panteraparts.com>  Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"  Best said, only coming from Scott  ?On 1/31/20, 7:40 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Scott Mead Photography"  <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of  scott at scottmeadphotography.com> wrote:      Such sad news. I?ve know Dennis since I was a kid. I have vivid  memories of Dennis, blasting past my grandfather and I, on a trek to  Monterey in the ?80s - twin turbos at full song. He was an amazing  photographer, and one of my inspirations to shoot vehicles myself. His  sense of lighting, scale and design is unparalleled. He could make an  ugly duckling look like a prince, and a Countach the lust of every boy  that could afford a poster. His rear-quarter shot of a Lamborghini  Miura that was posted last year, captured the complete essence of the  car in a single shot.      Aside from being a fantastic shooter, he was true car guy and one  of the nicest people I?ve ever met. RIP, Dennis. Keep those turbos  spoiled at full song.      Sent from my iPhone      >> On Jan 29, 2020, at 1:14 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso  <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:      > ?  All,      >      >  Those who were around in the 80s may remember the name Dennis  Fugnetti.      >    He was a well-known fine arts automotive photographer in  Southern      >  California, who owned an exquisite twin-turbo Pantera. He  produced      >  several posters featuring his car (one inexplicably including  stylized      >  representations of a polished Mangusta wheel?), and his car was      >  featured on the cover and inside the first really fine book on  the      >  marque, Panteras For The Road by Henry Rasmussen:      >      >  [cid:ABB23469-668F-4040-BBCB-D55370791076-L0-001]      >  [cid:C26B6DC1-4F99-4A95-8849-A4C416ACC38F-L0-001]      >  [cid:EAC00BF7-F951-40B3-AAD5-1FBB3B1C97F3-L0-001]      >  [cid:7CF1991B-0F9C-4ED5-BB89-DD0E5954A82F-L0-001]      >      >  Jeff Maxwell informed me the other day that Dennis has passed  away. His      >  business lives on, shared with his daughter:      >      >  [1]https://www.fugnettiimages.com/page/about2      >      >  I only met him once, at Concorso Italiano long after he sold  his      >  Pantera. He was much younger than I was expecting him to be,  not all      >  that much older than me. He was also extremely friendly and  personable.      >  My condolences to his family for what has to have been an  untimely      >  passing. :(      >      >  I once found his old Pantera rotting at a used car lot in  Monterey,      >  sitting outdoors. This was in the early 1990s. The beautiful  polished      >  engine looked like crap as the elements had taken their      >  toll--everything was corroded.  I took it for a test drive and  it ran      >  like crap too.  The turbos weren't dialed in so it ran  terribly, then      >  spectacularly overheated and blew its water all over the place.  We      >  barely made it back to the dealer.  It had been a fine car when  he      >  owned it, so it's sad the subsequent owner or owners really let  it fall      >  apart.      >      >  It was later bought by a Silicon Valley guy who retrofitted a  standard      >  motor, then quickly tired of it and sold it to buy a Ferrari  308 from      >  the divorcing Lee Majors and Farrah Fawcett-Majors. I then lost  touch      >  with it. I think it's still floating around in So-Cal?      >      >  Spare Dennis a thought each time you admire his timeless  poster, which      >  many, many of us have hanging on our walls.....      >      >  Mike      >  Sent from my iPad      >      > References      >      >  1. https://www.fugnettiimages.com/page/about2      > _______________________________________________      >      >      > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA      > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes      > DeTomaso mailing list      > DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com      > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso      >      > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,  etc.) use the links above.      >      > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to  forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members  of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an  archive or approve the archiving of list messages.      _______________________________________________      Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA      Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes      DeTomaso mailing list      DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com      http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso      To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,  etc.) use the links above.      Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward  any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the  list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive  or approve the archiving of list messages.  ------------------------------  Subject: Digest Footer  _______________________________________________  Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes  DeTomaso mailing list  DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com  http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso  Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any  message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the  list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive  or approve the archiving of list messages.  ------------------------------  End of DeTomaso Digest, Vol 187, Issue 26  *****************************************_______________________________________________Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCAPosted emails must not exceed 1.5 MegabytesDeTomaso mailing listDeTomaso at server.detomasolist.comhttp://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomasoTo manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.  
-------------- next part --------------
   Never heard of that risk but I will test the ignition temp of the stuff
   and report back

   Owen

   Sent from Samsung tablet.

   -------- Original message --------
   From: Dave McManus <Dave at damardirect.com>
   Date: 01/02/2020 20:09 (GMT+00:00)
   To: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>, detomaso at server.detomasolist.com,
   Owen Cooke <owen at tadhgcooke.com>
   Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 187, Issue 26

   I remember a discussion years ago. There was a big concern FIRE. It
   is/was flammable.
   IndyDave
   -----Original Message-----
   From: Ken Green [mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com]
   Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 3:57 PM
   To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com; Owen Cooke
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 187, Issue 26
   I read that Evans coolant has a lower heat capacity than water and the
   engine runs hotter. Have you seen any heat issues?
   Ken
       On Friday, January 31, 2020, 11:05:24 AM PST, Owen Cooke
   <owen at tadhgcooke.com> wrote:
     We are using waterless coolant now and it is a permanent solution to
     boiling and corrosion Evans is the maker and a life saver
     Owen cooke dublin
     Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S6 - powered by Three
     -------- Original message --------
     From: detomaso-request at server.detomasolist.com
     Date: 31/01/2020 17:00 (GMT+00:00)
     To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 187, Issue 26
     Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to
     detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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     or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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     When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
     than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..."
     Daily Detomaso List Digest
     Today's Topics:
         1. Re: Radiator (Jack Donahue)
         2. Fwd: Aluminum vs brass (Jack Donahue)
         3. Re: Dennis Fugnetti RIP... (Bob)
         4. Re: Nice Yellow '71 Flat Deck in Portland, OR on BaT. - Sold
           at $111K (Mike Thomas)
         5. Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Nice Yellow '71 Flat Deck in Portland, OR
           on BaT. - Sold at $111K (Himes, Terry (US 397C))
         6. Techno question: stock rear brake shims (Charles Engles)
         7. Re: Techno question: stock rear brake shims (Mike Drew)
         8. Re: Techno question: stock rear brake shims (Mike Drew)
         9. Re: Techno question: stock rear brake shims (Doug)
       10. Re: Techno question: stock rear brake shims (Julian Kift)
       11. Re: Techno question: stock rear brake shims (Charles Engles)
       12. Re: Techno question: stock rear brake shims (Curt Hall)
       13. Re: Techno question: stock rear brake shims (Charles Engles)
       14. Re: Dennis Fugnetti RIP... (Scott Mead Photography)
       15. Re: Dennis Fugnetti RIP... (Larry Stock)

   ----------------------------------------------------------------------
     Message: 1
     Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 09:35:04 -0800
     From: Jack Donahue <demongusta at gmail.com>
     To: Jim Wallace <pantera_4220 at yahoo.com>
     Cc: "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
     <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiator
     Message-ID: <84656478-FAC8-4A11-8B6D-888B29A18CB2 at gmail.com>
     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
     FWIW - No Rosion is used for copper/brass rads - HyperKuhl for
     aluminum.
     > On Jan 30, 2020, at 5:39 AM, Jim Wallace via DeTomaso
     <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
     >
     > I concur with Jack, replaced mine with aluminum fluidyne and it
     worked just fine.
     >
     > Jim
     >
     > Sent from my iPhone
     >
     >> On Jan 29, 2020, at 23:29, Jack DeRyke via DeTomaso
     <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
     >>
     >> ?  IMHO you will get more cooling with any aluminum radiator
     because they
     >>  typically use 4X size tubes inside. Copper radiators cannot use
     such
     >>  huge inner tubes so their water flow & heat transfer is limited.
   I
     >>  recommend an aluminum  Fluidyne which is a drop in replacement,
     weighs
     >>  less than half the stock unit and holds more water. It MUST be
     handled
     >>  carefully as soft aluminum strips threads easily and coolant MUST
     be
     >>  kept around pH 12.  'No-Rosion' additive is often included with
     >>  aluminum radiators from vendors. Some local tap water is as
   acidic
     as
     >>  soda pop and will wreck a new aluminum rad in weeks. I don't
   think
     >>  Ford, GM or Chrysler has used a brass rad, even in trucks, in
   this
     >>  century.
     >>  The Fluidyne can also be leaned fwd for convenience in working on
   a
     far
     >>  more efficient shrouded sucker fan system like the Flexilite. Our
     >>  Fluidyne/Flexilite combo has done outstanding duty since 1995 and
     still
     >>  doesn't leak. From city driving , desert cruising to full-on open
     >>  track. Worked for me- J DeRyke
     >>  -----Original Message-----
     >>  From: Himes, Terry (US 397C) via DeTomaso
     >>  <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
     >>  To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
     >>  Sent: Wed, Jan 29, 2020 6:51 pm
     >>  Subject: [DeTomaso] Radiator
     >>  Hall is out of radiators.  I heard they had the best. My original
     >>  radiator needs to be replaced.
     >>  About the only thing I have not replaced, and it has always
   worked
     >>  extremely well, even with
     >>  many trips to the Vegas POCA events and all the fun-runs.
     >>  Anyone know of another source of a drop-in replacement.  I don't
     want
     >>  to do anything crazy.
     >>  (all tubes replaced with stainless steel long-ago)
     >>  Thanks.
     >>  Terry
     >>  "A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan,
     >>  stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!"
     >>  Terry W. Himes
     >>  JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
     >>  Deep Space Exploration a Mission Operations
     >>  Dawn Spacecraft Team
     >>  Juno Systems & Software Team
     >>  TGO Sequence Lead
     >>  MEX Sequence Lead
     >>  Odyssey Sequence Team
     >>  Spitzer Space Telescope Data Team
     >>  Phone: (818) 393-6261
     >>  Cell:    (818) 653-8213
     >>  [1]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
     >>  i>>?On 1/29/20, 6:37 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of
     >>  [2]charlesmccall at gmail.com"
     >>  <[3]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
     >>  [4]charlesmccall at gmail.com> wrote:
     >>      I realize that none of us are answering the question of where
     to
     >>  buy parts, and all of us are commenting the part that he already
     has
     >>  decided, but...
     >>
     >>      My conclusion after reading all the discussions over the
   years
     is
     >>  that the optimal location depends on the typical operating
     conditions
     >>  of the car. The stock location is probably better for cruising
     around
     >>  town, or for up to medium-speed trips. The stock condenser fans
   can
     >>  pull in enough air to cool effectively and the radiator isn't
     >>  obstructed during what is probably the most difficult condition
   to
     keep
     >>  cool. The front-mounted option is better if you spend most of
   your
     time
     >>  at higher highway speeds, since above X mph, it's been widely
     published
     >>  that a vacuum starts to form behind the condenser, and the higher
     the
     >>  speed, the more it struggles to get air through it. At higher
     speeds,
     >>  there's no issue with engine cooling since the airflow is enough
   to
     >>  cool the radiator and the condenser, while it might struggle with
     this
     >>  task if it was only the fan during driving around town.
     >>
     >>      In my particular case, if I had it to do over I'd put it up
     front.
     >>  Most of my use consists of driving from one part of Europe to
     another
     >>  at European highway speeds. Or travelling 5-6 hours away within
   the
     >>  same country to attend some event, but at higher speed to reach
   the
     >>  place. I could deal with the AC off in the worst case if
   necessary
     >>  during the puttering around in town until I got on the highway,
     which
     >>  is when wind noise becomes an issue in any case.  In summary,
     neither
     >>  system is perfect for all conditions, so you pick the system
   based
     on
     >>  your typical conditions.
     >>
     >>      My two rupees
     >>
     >>      -----Original Message-----
     >>      From: DeTomaso <[5]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com>
   On
     >>  Behalf Of R.J.
     >>      Sent: jueves, 30 de enero de 2020 2:10
     >>      To: [6]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     >>      Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Parts List & Sources for Pantera AC
     >>  Installation
     >>
     >>      If done right, a front condenser works way better that the
     stock
     >>  system.
     >>      The correct o-ring style pick ups can be soldierd on the
   stock
     >>  evaproator.
     >>
     >>      Roland, who is running a front condersers since 25 years on
     several
     >>  Panteras.
     >>
     >>>      Am 29.01.2020 um 21:32 schrieb Mike Drew via DeTomaso:
     >>> Mike,
     >>>
     >>> The Space City Pantera guys just discussed this on their forum in
     >>  the past few weeks including talk of superior hoses with
     quick-connect
     >>  fittings.
     >>>
     >>> Contact John Taphorn for the specifics.
     >>>
     >>> Mike
     >>>
     >>> Sent from my iPad
     >>>
     >>>> On Jan 29, 2020, at 11:02, Mike & Elizabeth Thomas
     >>  <[7]mbefthomas2 at gmail.com> wrote:
     >>>>
     >>>>  One of the major upgrades I plan to do to 6328 will be
     >>  installation of
     >>>>  AC - she's never had it and my lovely passenger said she
     >>  won't take
     >>>>  another long summer cruise without it.  OK then . . .
     >>>>
     >>>>
     >>>>  I know this is a hotly debated subject, but I've decided to
     >>  go with a
     >>>>  front-mounted condenser.  That said, I will need the entire
     >>  setup from
     >>>>  A-Z including all hose runs, mechanical parts, electrical
     >>  switches
     >>>>  (thinking of going with John Haas Pantera Electronics AC
     >>  controller)
     >>>>  and other bits & bobs.  During the restoration, I'll have the
     >>  dash out
     >>>>  so will be able to make any needed changes/upgrades to any of
     >>  the parts
     >>>>  under the dash.
     >>>>
     >>>>
     >>>>  Can somebody help me start getting a list of all parts needed
     >>  and where
     >>>>  I would source them?
     >>>>
     >>>>
     >>>>  Thanks very much!
     >>>>
     >>>>  Mike Thomas
     >>>>
     >>>>
     >>>>  Our email address has changed: Please use
     >>  [1][8]mbefthomas2 at gmail.com for
     >>>>  all new messages, thanks!
     >>>>
     >>>> References
     >>>>
     >>>>  1. mailto:[9]mbefthomas2 at gmail.com
     >>>> _______________________________________________
     >>>>
     >>>>
     >>>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must
     >>  not
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     >>>>
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     >>  of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to
   maintain
     an
     >>  archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
     >>> _______________________________________________
     >>>
     >>>
     >>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not
     >>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
     >>> [12]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     >>> [13]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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     >>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
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     >>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
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     an
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     >>      _______________________________________________
     >>
     >>
     >>      Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must
     not
     >>  exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
     >>  [14]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     >>  [15]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     >>
     >>      To manage your subscription (change email address,
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     >>      _______________________________________________
     >>
     >>
     >>      Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
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     >>      DeTomaso mailing list
     >>      [16]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     >>      [17]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     >>
     >>      To manage your subscription (change email address,
   unsubscribe,
     >>  etc.) use the links above.
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     >>      Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
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     >>  any message posted here to all past, current, or future members
   of
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     >>  _______________________________________________
     >>  Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
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     >>  DeTomaso mailing list
     >>  [18]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     >>  [19]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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     >>
     >> References
     >>
     >>  1. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
     >>  2. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
     >>  3. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
     >>  4. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
     >>  5. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
     >>  6. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     >>  7. mailto:mbefthomas2 at gmail.com
     >>  8. mailto:mbefthomas2 at gmail.com
     >>  9. mailto:mbefthomas2 at gmail.com
     >> 10. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     >> 11. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     >> 12. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     >> 13. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     >> 14. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     >> 15. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     >> 16. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     >> 17. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     >> 18. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     >> 19. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     >> _______________________________________________
     >>
     >>
     >> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
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     >> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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     list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
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     or approve the archiving of list messages.
     >
     > _______________________________________________
     >
     >
     > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
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     > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     >
     > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
   etc.)
     use the links above.
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     > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
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     list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
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     or approve the archiving of list messages.
     ------------------------------
     Message: 2
     Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 09:35:34 -0800
     From: Jack Donahue <demongusta at gmail.com>
     To: "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
     <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
     Subject: [DeTomaso] Fwd: Aluminum vs brass
     Message-ID: <45B25543-38FD-4A3C-A276-9BF7DE3F6E87 at gmail.com>
     Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
     > Begin forwarded message:
     >
     > From: Jay Ross <norosion at aol.com>
     > Subject: Re: Aluminum vs brass
     > Date: January 30, 2020 at 9:15:32 AM PST
     > To: demongusta at gmail.com
     >
     >
     > Hi Jack,
     >
     > We recommend HyperKuhl  for aluminum radiators, and No-Rosion for
     copper/brass radiators.
     >
     > Thank you,
     >
     > -Jay
     >
     > --
     > Jay Ross
     > Applied Chemical Specialties, Inc.
     > jross at norosion.com | 847-477-9262 (T) | 402-390-9262 (F)
     >
     > ASTM D15 Engine Coolants | D02 Petroleum/Fuels | Member #426562
     > SAE Society of Automotive Engineers | Member #6135528286
     >
     > www.norosion.com | Leading Engine Fluid Technologies
     >
     >
     > -----Original Message-----
     > From: Jack Donahue <demongusta at gmail.com>
     > To: info <info at NoRosion.com>
     > Sent: Thu, Jan 30, 2020 8:09 am
     > Subject: Aluminum vs brass
     >
     > Which product additive is better with aluminum vs brass radiators?
     I?ve heard lots of controversy.
     > John Donahue
     -------------- next part --------------
         Begin forwarded message:
         From: Jay Ross <[1]norosion at aol.com>
         Subject: Re: Aluminum vs brass
         Date: January 30, 2020 at 9:15:32 AM PST
         To: [2]demongusta at gmail.com
         Hi Jack,
         We recommend HyperKuhl  for aluminum radiators, and No-Rosion for
         copper/brass radiators.
         Thank you,
         -Jay
     --
     Jay Ross
     Applied Chemical Specialties, Inc.
     [3]jross at norosion.com | 847-477-9262 (T) | 402-390-9262 (F)
     ASTM D15 Engine Coolants | D02 Petroleum/Fuels | Member #426562
     SAE Society of Automotive Engineers | Member #6135528286
     [4]www.norosion.com | Leading Engine Fluid Technologies
         -----Original Message-----
         From: Jack Donahue <[5]demongusta at gmail.com>
         To: info <[6]info at NoRosion.com>
         Sent: Thu, Jan 30, 2020 8:09 am
         Subject: Aluminum vs brass
         Which product additive is better with aluminum vs brass
   radiators?
     I've
         heard lots of controversy.
         John Donahue
     References
         1. mailto:norosion at aol.com
         2. mailto:demongusta at gmail.com
         3. mailto:jross at norosion.com
         4. http://www.norosion.com/
         5. mailto:demongusta at gmail.com
         6. mailto:info at NoRosion.com
     ------------------------------
     Message: 3
     Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 18:03:50 +0000 (UTC)
     From: Bob <p6746 at aol.com>
     To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Dennis Fugnetti RIP...
     Message-ID: <876538158.1598069.1580407430512 at mail.yahoo.com>
     Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
     I also have the poster of image 0 at the entrance to my office, which
   I
     see and smile at several time a day.? In fact I used his car the
   basis
     for what I wanted to do to our car during restoration in the 80's and
     90's. RIP Dennis.? Bob Reid
     In a message dated 1/29/2020 4:28:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,
     detomaso at server.detomasolist.com writes:
     ? I got the poster you have as image0 in like 1985, and it still
   graces
     ? the wall of my study / man cave. It was probably partly responsible
     for
     ? my buying a Pantera
     ? RIP
     ? -----Original Message-----
     ? From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
     ? To: De Tomaso Forum <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
     ? Sent: Wed, Jan 29, 2020 1:14 pm
     ? Subject: [DeTomaso] Dennis Fugnetti RIP...
     ? ? All,
     ? ? Those who were around in the 80s may remember the name Dennis
     ? Fugnetti.
     ? ? ? He was a well-known fine arts automotive photographer in
   Southern
     ? ? California, who owned an exquisite twin-turbo Pantera. He
   produced
     ? ? several posters featuring his car (one inexplicably including
     ? stylized
     ? ? representations of a polished Mangusta wheel?), and his car was
     ? ? featured on the cover and inside the first really fine book on
   the
     ? ? marque, Panteras For The Road by Henry Rasmussen:
     ? ? [cid:ABB23469-668F-4040-BBCB-D55370791076-L0-001]
     ? ? [cid:C26B6DC1-4F99-4A95-8849-A4C416ACC38F-L0-001]
     ? ? [cid:EAC00BF7-F951-40B3-AAD5-1FBB3B1C97F3-L0-001]
     ? ? [cid:7CF1991B-0F9C-4ED5-BB89-DD0E5954A82F-L0-001]
     ? ? Jeff Maxwell informed me the other day that Dennis has passed
   away.
     ? His
     ? ? business lives on, shared with his daughter:
     ? ? [1][1]https://www.fugnettiimages.com/page/about2
     ? ? I only met him once, at Concorso Italiano long after he sold his
     ? ? Pantera. He was much younger than I was expecting him to be, not
     all
     ? ? that much older than me. He was also extremely friendly and
     ? personable.
     ? ? My condolences to his family for what has to have been an
   untimely
     ? ? passing. :(
     ? ? I once found his old Pantera rotting at a used car lot in
   Monterey,
     ? ? sitting outdoors. This was in the early 1990s. The beautiful
     polished
     ? ? engine looked like crap as the elements had taken their
     ? ? toll--everything was corroded.? I took it for a test drive and it
     ran
     ? ? like crap too.? The turbos weren't dialed in so it ran terribly,
     then
     ? ? spectacularly overheated and blew its water all over the place.
   We
     ? ? barely made it back to the dealer.? It had been a fine car when
   he
     ? ? owned it, so it's sad the subsequent owner or owners really let
   it
     ? fall
     ? ? apart.
     ? ? It was later bought by a Silicon Valley guy who retrofitted a
     ? standard
     ? ? motor, then quickly tired of it and sold it to buy a Ferrari 308
     from
     ? ? the divorcing Lee Majors and Farrah Fawcett-Majors. I then lost
     touch
     ? ? with it. I think it's still floating around in So-Cal?
     ? ? Spare Dennis a thought each time you admire his timeless poster,
     ? which
     ? ? many, many of us have hanging on our walls.....
     ? ? Mike
     ? ? Sent from my iPad
     ? References
     ? ? 1. [2]https://www.fugnettiimages.com/page/about2
     ? _______________________________________________
     ? Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
     ? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
     ? DeTomaso mailing list
     ? [3]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     ? [4]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     ? To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
   etc.)
     ? use the links above.
     ? Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
     any
     ? message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
     ? list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
     archive
     ? or approve the archiving of list messages.
     References
     ? 1. https://www.fugnettiimages.com/page/about2
     ? 2. https://www.fugnettiimages.com/page/about2
     ? 3. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     ? 4.

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     -------------- next part --------------
         I also have the poster of image 0 at the entrance to my office,
     which I
         see and smile at several time a day.  In fact I used his car the
     basis
         for what I wanted to do to our car during restoration in the 80's
     and
         90's. RIP Dennis.  Bob Reid
         In a message dated 1/29/2020 4:28:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,
         detomaso at server.detomasolist.com writes:
           I got the poster you have as image0 in like 1985, and it still
     graces
           the wall of my study / man cave. It was probably partly
     responsible
         for
           my buying a Pantera
           RIP
           -----Original Message-----
           From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso
   <[1]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
           To: De Tomaso Forum <[2]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
           Sent: Wed, Jan 29, 2020 1:14 pm
           Subject: [DeTomaso] Dennis Fugnetti RIP...
             All,
             Those who were around in the 80s may remember the name Dennis
           Fugnetti.
               He was a well-known fine arts automotive photographer in
     Southern
             California, who owned an exquisite twin-turbo Pantera. He
     produced
             several posters featuring his car (one inexplicably including
           stylized
             representations of a polished Mangusta wheel?), and his car
   was
             featured on the cover and inside the first really fine book
   on
     the
             marque, Panteras For The Road by Henry Rasmussen:
             [cid:ABB23469-668F-4040-BBCB-D55370791076-L0-001]
             [cid:C26B6DC1-4F99-4A95-8849-A4C416ACC38F-L0-001]
             [cid:EAC00BF7-F951-40B3-AAD5-1FBB3B1C97F3-L0-001]
             [cid:7CF1991B-0F9C-4ED5-BB89-DD0E5954A82F-L0-001]
             Jeff Maxwell informed me the other day that Dennis has passed
     away.
           His
             business lives on, shared with his daughter:
             [1][1][3]https://www.fugnettiimages.com/page/about2
             I only met him once, at Concorso Italiano long after he sold
   his
             Pantera. He was much younger than I was expecting him to be,
   not
         all
             that much older than me. He was also extremely friendly and
           personable.
             My condolences to his family for what has to have been an
     untimely
             passing. :(
             I once found his old Pantera rotting at a used car lot in
     Monterey,
             sitting outdoors. This was in the early 1990s. The beautiful
         polished
             engine looked like crap as the elements had taken their
             toll--everything was corroded.  I took it for a test drive
   and
     it
         ran
             like crap too.  The turbos weren't dialed in so it ran
   terribly,
         then
             spectacularly overheated and blew its water all over the
   place.
     We
             barely made it back to the dealer.  It had been a fine car
   when
     he
             owned it, so it's sad the subsequent owner or owners really
   let
     it
           fall
             apart.
             It was later bought by a Silicon Valley guy who retrofitted a
           standard
             motor, then quickly tired of it and sold it to buy a Ferrari
   308
         from
             the divorcing Lee Majors and Farrah Fawcett-Majors. I then
   lost
         touch
             with it. I think it's still floating around in So-Cal?
             Spare Dennis a thought each time you admire his timeless
   poster,
           which
             many, many of us have hanging on our walls.....
             Mike
             Sent from my iPad
           References
             1. [2][4]https://www.fugnettiimages.com/page/about2
           _______________________________________________
           Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
           Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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         References
           1. [7]https://www.fugnettiimages.com/page/about2
           2. [8]https://www.fugnettiimages.com/page/about2
           3. mailto:[9]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
           4. [10]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
         _______________________________________________
         Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
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         DeTomaso mailing list
         [11]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
         [12]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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         or approve the archiving of list messages.
     References
         1. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
         2. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
         3. https://www.fugnettiimages.com/page/about2
         4. https://www.fugnettiimages.com/page/about2
         5. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
         6. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
         7. https://www.fugnettiimages.com/page/about2
         8. https://www.fugnettiimages.com/page/about2
         9. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
       10. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
       11. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
       12. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     ------------------------------
     Message: 4
     Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 11:53:33 -0800
     From: "Mike Thomas" <mbefthomas at comcast.net>
     To: "'Mike & Elizabeth Thomas'" <mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>,
     <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Nice Yellow '71 Flat Deck in Portland, OR on
     BaT. - Sold at $111K
     Message-ID: <0bfe01d5d7a6$f4b84e40$de28eac0$@comcast.net>
     Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
     Well sold.
     -----Original Message-----
     From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> On Behalf
   Of
     Mike
     & Elizabeth Thomas
     Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2020 7:56 AM
     To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     Subject: [DeTomaso] Nice Yellow '71 Flat Deck in Portland, OR on BaT.
     Currently at $82K.
     <https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1971-detomaso-pantera-43/>
     https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1971-detomaso-pantera-43/
     Mike Thomas
     Our email address has changed: Please use mbefthomas2 at gmail.com
     <mailto:mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>  for all new messages, thanks!
     ------------------------------
     Message: 5
     Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 20:51:55 +0000
     From: "Himes, Terry (US 397C)" <terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov>
     To: "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
     <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] [EXTERNAL] Re: Nice Yellow '71 Flat Deck in
     Portland, OR on BaT. - Sold at $111K
     Message-ID: <EA5D0100-B057-4925-88F9-525B70B58C3E at jpl.nasa.gov>
     Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
     BaT Yellow Pantera sold for $111k.  today. yippee
     Yellow one's always rule!!  __
     "A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan,
     stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!"
     Terry W. Himes
     JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
     Deep Space Exploration ? Mission Operations
     Dawn Spacecraft Team
     Juno Systems & Software Team
     TGO Sequence Lead
     MEX Sequence Lead
     Odyssey Sequence Team
     Spitzer Space Telescope Data Team
     Phone: (818) 393-6261
     Cell:    (818) 653-8213
     thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
     ?On 1/30/20, 11:53 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Mike Thomas"
     <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
     mbefthomas at comcast.net> wrote:
         Well sold.
         -----Original Message-----
         From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> On
   Behalf
     Of Mike
         & Elizabeth Thomas
         Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2020 7:56 AM
         To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
         Subject: [DeTomaso] Nice Yellow '71 Flat Deck in Portland, OR on
     BaT.
         Currently at $82K.
           <https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1971-detomaso-pantera-43/>
         https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1971-detomaso-pantera-43/
         Mike Thomas
         Our email address has changed: Please use mbefthomas2 at gmail.com
         <mailto:mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>  for all new messages, thanks!
         _______________________________________________
         Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
         Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
         DeTomaso mailing list
         DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
         http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
         To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
     etc.) use the links above.
         Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
   forward
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     list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
   archive
     or approve the archiving of list messages.
     -------------- next part --------------
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     URL:

   <http://server.detomasolist.com/pipermail/detomaso/attachments/20200130
     /83fa6e50/attachment-0001.png>
     ------------------------------
     Message: 6
     Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 17:12:01 -0600
     From: "Charles Engles" <cengles at cox.net>
     To: <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
     Subject: [DeTomaso] Techno question: stock rear brake shims
     Message-ID: <006401d5d7c2$af070dc0$0d152940$@cox.net>
     Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
     Dear Forum,
                   An Oklahoma Pantera owner bought a set of re-built
   brakes
     from
     one of our vendors, who is gone until next week.  The problem is that
     the
     stock shims for the rear calipers were not shipped.  The dumb
   question
     is
     whether the front shims will fit the rear calipers.  We do have an
     extra set
     of front shims, but I do not think that they'll fit.  Anyone with
     actual
     knowledge of this bit of stock brake trivia??
                                     Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles
     -------------- next part --------------
         Dear Forum,
                       An Oklahoma Pantera owner bought a set of re-built
     brakes
         from one of our vendors, who is gone until next week.  The
   problem
     is
         that the stock shims for the rear calipers were not shipped.  The
     dumb
         question is whether the front shims will fit the rear calipers.
   We
     do
         have an extra set of front shims, but I do not think that they'll
         fit.  Anyone with actual knowledge of this bit of stock brake
     trivia??
                                       Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles
     ------------------------------
     Message: 7
     Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 16:15:26 -0800
     From: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
     To: Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net>
     Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: stock rear brake shims
     Message-ID: <B4A76F89-90C8-4699-B491-F27004732BD8 at aol.com>
     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
     Chuck,
     Two things:
     1). Front and rear caliper bolt spacing is different. You can't put a
     front anything on the rear.
     2). Rear calipers don't have shims. :)
     Both front and rear have locking tabs which go immediately underneath
     the head of the mounting bolts, but they are not shims. They have
   tabs
     which are bent up to prevent bolt rotation. Front calipers also have
     shims between caliper and upright which spaces the caliper inboard by
     the thickness of the shim.
     The caliper locking tabs for the GT5 (which has different calipers
   with
     different bolt spacing for the different spindles/rear uprights) are
     very cheap. However the ones for the early cars are obscenely
   expensive
     for what they are.
     Look at Wilkinson's website for exploded drawings and associated
   parts
     descriptions with eye-watering prices for the locking tabs....
     Mike
     Sent from my iPhone
     > On Jan 30, 2020, at 15:12, Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net> wrote:
     >
     >  Dear Forum,
     >
     >
     >                An Oklahoma Pantera owner bought a set of re-built
     brakes
     >  from one of our vendors, who is gone until next week.  The problem
     is
     >  that the stock shims for the rear calipers were not shipped.  The
     dumb
     >  question is whether the front shims will fit the rear calipers.
   We
     do
     >  have an extra set of front shims, but I do not think that they'll
     >  fit.  Anyone with actual knowledge of this bit of stock brake
     trivia??
     >
     >
     >                                  Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles
     >
     > _______________________________________________
     >
     >
     > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
     > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
     > DeTomaso mailing list
     > DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     >
     > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
   etc.)
     use the links above.
     >
     > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
     any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
   the
     list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
   archive
     or approve the archiving of list messages.
     ------------------------------
     Message: 8
     Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 16:15:26 -0800
     From: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
     To: Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net>
     Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: stock rear brake shims
     Message-ID: <B4A76F89-90C8-4699-B491-F27004732BD8 at aol.com>
     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
     Chuck,
     Two things:
     1). Front and rear caliper bolt spacing is different. You can't put a
     front anything on the rear.
     2). Rear calipers don't have shims. :)
     Both front and rear have locking tabs which go immediately underneath
     the head of the mounting bolts, but they are not shims. They have
   tabs
     which are bent up to prevent bolt rotation. Front calipers also have
     shims between caliper and upright which spaces the caliper inboard by
     the thickness of the shim.
     The caliper locking tabs for the GT5 (which has different calipers
   with
     different bolt spacing for the different spindles/rear uprights) are
     very cheap. However the ones for the early cars are obscenely
   expensive
     for what they are.
     Look at Wilkinson's website for exploded drawings and associated
   parts
     descriptions with eye-watering prices for the locking tabs....
     Mike
     Sent from my iPhone
     > On Jan 30, 2020, at 15:12, Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net> wrote:
     >
     >  Dear Forum,
     >
     >
     >                An Oklahoma Pantera owner bought a set of re-built
     brakes
     >  from one of our vendors, who is gone until next week.  The problem
     is
     >  that the stock shims for the rear calipers were not shipped.  The
     dumb
     >  question is whether the front shims will fit the rear calipers.
   We
     do
     >  have an extra set of front shims, but I do not think that they'll
     >  fit.  Anyone with actual knowledge of this bit of stock brake
     trivia??
     >
     >
     >                                  Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles
     >
     > _______________________________________________
     >
     >
     > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
     > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
     > DeTomaso mailing list
     > DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     >
     > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
   etc.)
     use the links above.
     >
     > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
     any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
   the
     list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
   archive
     or approve the archiving of list messages.
     ------------------------------
     Message: 9
     Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 16:36:54 -0800
     From: "Doug" <doug351c at gmail.com>
     To: "'Charles Engles'" <cengles at cox.net>,
     <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: stock rear brake shims
     Message-ID: <00ae01d5d7ce$8aa4ab20$9fee0160$@gmail.com>
     Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
     Chuck,
     The front spacers will definitely NOT fit the rear.
     The fronts have a 76mm bolt spacing while the rears have a 60mm
     spacing.
     Doug Braun
     Blue 73L #5505
     -----Original Message-----
     From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
     Behalf
     Of Charles Engles
     Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2020 3:12 PM
     To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     Subject: [DeTomaso] Techno question: stock rear brake shims
     Dear Forum,
                   An Oklahoma Pantera owner bought a set of re-built
   brakes
     from
     one of our vendors, who is gone until next week.  The problem is that
     the
     stock shims for the rear calipers were not shipped.  The dumb
   question
     is
     whether the front shims will fit the rear calipers.  We do have an
     extra set
     of front shims, but I do not think that they'll fit.  Anyone with
     actual
     knowledge of this bit of stock brake trivia??
                                     Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles
     ------------------------------
     Message: 10
     Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 00:47:59 +0000
     From: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
     To: Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net>, Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
     Cc: "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
     <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: stock rear brake shims
     Message-ID:

   <BYAPR08MB6118F1AE1B727EF2CF4AFF0F95070 at BYAPR08MB6118.namprd08.prod.out
     look.com>
     Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
     They would be a fairly easy part to take to a local shop and get a
     bunch laser cut, you'd have thought a vendor would have been all over
     this as the lock tabs are a consumable that weakens after a couple
   uses
     and the tab breaks off. The caliper bolt spacing isn't that uncommon
   of
     the era, surely someone must sell equivalent lock tabs that don't
   come
     in a De Tomaso plastic bag....?
     Alternatively one could drill the bolt heads for safety wiring, or
     purchase pre-drilled bolts. The second option may be more expensive
     than new lock tabs in the short term, but almost infinitely reusable.
     Julian
     ________________________________
     From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf
   of
     Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
     Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2020 4:15 PM
     To: Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net>
     Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: stock rear brake shims
     Chuck,
     Two things:
     1). Front and rear caliper bolt spacing is different. You can't put a
     front anything on the rear.
     2). Rear calipers don't have shims. :)
     Both front and rear have locking tabs which go immediately underneath
     the head of the mounting bolts, but they are not shims. They have
   tabs
     which are bent up to prevent bolt rotation. Front calipers also have
     shims between caliper and upright which spaces the caliper inboard by
     the thickness of the shim.
     The caliper locking tabs for the GT5 (which has different calipers
   with
     different bolt spacing for the different spindles/rear uprights) are
     very cheap. However the ones for the early cars are obscenely
   expensive
     for what they are.
     Look at Wilkinson's website for exploded drawings and associated
   parts
     descriptions with eye-watering prices for the locking tabs....
     Mike
     Sent from my iPhone
     > On Jan 30, 2020, at 15:12, Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net> wrote:
     >
     >  Dear Forum,
     >
     >
     >                An Oklahoma Pantera owner bought a set of re-built
     brakes
     >  from one of our vendors, who is gone until next week.  The problem
     is
     >  that the stock shims for the rear calipers were not shipped.  The
     dumb
     >  question is whether the front shims will fit the rear calipers.
   We
     do
     >  have an extra set of front shims, but I do not think that they'll
     >  fit.  Anyone with actual knowledge of this bit of stock brake
     trivia??
     >
     >
     >                                  Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles
     >
     > _______________________________________________
     >
     >
     > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
     > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
     > DeTomaso mailing list
     > DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     >
     > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
   etc.)
     use the links above.
     >
     > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
     any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
   the
     list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
   archive
     or approve the archiving of list messages.
     _______________________________________________
     Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
     Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
     DeTomaso mailing list
     DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
     use the links above.
     Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
   any
     message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
     list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
   archive
     or approve the archiving of list messages.
     -------------- next part --------------
         They would be a fairly easy part to take to a local shop and get
   a
         bunch laser cut, you'd have thought a vendor would have been all
     over
         this as the lock tabs are a consumable that weakens after a
   couple
     uses
         and the tab breaks off. The caliper bolt spacing isn't that
   uncommon
     of
         the era, surely someone must sell equivalent lock tabs that don't
     come
         in a De Tomaso plastic bag....?
         Alternatively one could drill the bolt heads for safety wiring,
   or
         purchase pre-drilled bolts. The second option may be more
   expensive
         than new lock tabs in the short term, but almost infinitely
     reusable.
         Julian

   __________________________________________________________________
         From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on
   behalf
     of
         Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
         Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2020 4:15 PM
         To: Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net>
         Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
         Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: stock rear brake shims
         Chuck,
         Two things:
         1). Front and rear caliper bolt spacing is different. You can't
   put
     a
         front anything on the rear.
         2). Rear calipers don't have shims. :)
         Both front and rear have locking tabs which go immediately
     underneath
         the head of the mounting bolts, but they are not shims. They have
     tabs
         which are bent up to prevent bolt rotation. Front calipers also
   have
         shims between caliper and upright which spaces the caliper
   inboard
     by
         the thickness of the shim.
         The caliper locking tabs for the GT5 (which has different
   calipers
     with
         different bolt spacing for the different spindles/rear uprights)
   are
         very cheap. However the ones for the early cars are obscenely
     expensive
         for what they are.
         Look at Wilkinson's website for exploded drawings and associated
     parts
         descriptions with eye-watering prices for the locking tabs....
         Mike
         Sent from my iPhone
         > On Jan 30, 2020, at 15:12, Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net>
   wrote:
         >
         >  Dear Forum,
         >
         >
         >                An Oklahoma Pantera owner bought a set of
   re-built
         brakes
         >  from one of our vendors, who is gone until next week.  The
     problem
         is
         >  that the stock shims for the rear calipers were not shipped.
     The
         dumb
         >  question is whether the front shims will fit the rear
   calipers.
     We
         do
         >  have an extra set of front shims, but I do not think that
     they'll
         >  fit.  Anyone with actual knowledge of this bit of stock brake
         trivia??
         >
         >
         >                                  Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles
         >
         > _______________________________________________
         >
         >
         > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
         > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
         > DeTomaso mailing list
         > DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
         > [1]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
         >
         > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
     etc.)
         use the links above.
         >
         > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
   forward
         any message posted here to all past, current, or future members
   of
     the
         list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
     archive
         or approve the archiving of list messages.
         _______________________________________________
         Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
         Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
         DeTomaso mailing list
         DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
         [2]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
         To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
     etc.)
         use the links above.
         Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
   forward
     any
         message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
   the
         list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
     archive
         or approve the archiving of list messages.
     References
         1. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
         2. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     ------------------------------
     Message: 11
     Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 19:15:51 -0600
     From: "Charles Engles" <cengles at cox.net>
     To: "'Mike Drew'" <MikeLDrew at aol.com>, <doug351c at gmail.com>, "'Julian
     Kift'" <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
     Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: stock rear brake shims
     Message-ID: <007c01d5d7d3$fbd8ac10$f38a0430$@cox.net>
     Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
     Dear Mike, Doug and Julian,
                     Thanks for the help.  The brake install is back on
     track.
                                       Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
     -----Original Message-----
     From: Mike Drew [mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com]
     Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2020 6:15 PM
     To: Charles Engles
     Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: stock rear brake shims
     Chuck,
     Two things:
     1). Front and rear caliper bolt spacing is different. You can't put a
     front
     anything on the rear.
     2). Rear calipers don't have shims. :)
     Both front and rear have locking tabs which go immediately underneath
     the
     head of the mounting bolts, but they are not shims. They have tabs
     which are
     bent up to prevent bolt rotation. Front calipers also have shims
     between
     caliper and upright which spaces the caliper inboard by the thickness
     of the
     shim.
     The caliper locking tabs for the GT5 (which has different calipers
   with
     different bolt spacing for the different spindles/rear uprights) are
     very
     cheap. However the ones for the early cars are obscenely expensive
   for
     what
     they are.
     Look at Wilkinson's website for exploded drawings and associated
   parts
     descriptions with eye-watering prices for the locking tabs....
     Mike
     Sent from my iPhone
     > On Jan 30, 2020, at 15:12, Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net> wrote:
     >
     >  Dear Forum,
     >
     >
     >                An Oklahoma Pantera owner bought a set of re-built
     brakes
     >  from one of our vendors, who is gone until next week.  The problem
     is
     >  that the stock shims for the rear calipers were not shipped.  The
     dumb
     >  question is whether the front shims will fit the rear calipers.
   We
     do
     >  have an extra set of front shims, but I do not think that they'll
     >  fit.  Anyone with actual knowledge of this bit of stock brake
     trivia??
     >
     >
     >                                  Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles
     >
     > _______________________________________________
     >
     >
     > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
     > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
     > DeTomaso mailing list
     > DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     >
     > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
   etc.)
     use
     the links above.
     >
     > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
     any
     message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
     list.
     They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
     approve
     the archiving of list messages.
     ------------------------------
     Message: 12
     Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 02:58:13 +0000 (UTC)
     From: Curt Hall <cuvee at sbcglobal.net>
     To: Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net>, Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
     Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: stock rear brake shims
     Message-ID: <1126293398.505520.1580439493933 at mail.yahoo.com>
     Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
     Interesting...Always Wonder why People didn't Front Brakes on the
   Rear!
     Even with a Custom Bracket?
         On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 04:15:51 PM PST, Mike Drew via
     DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
     Chuck,
     Two things:
     1). Front and rear caliper bolt spacing is different. You can't put a
     front anything on the rear.
     2). Rear calipers don't have shims. :)
     Both front and rear have locking tabs which go immediately underneath
     the head of the mounting bolts, but they are not shims. They have
   tabs
     which are bent up to prevent bolt rotation. Front calipers also have
     shims between caliper and upright which spaces the caliper inboard by
     the thickness of the shim.
     The caliper locking tabs for the GT5 (which has different calipers
   with
     different bolt spacing for the different spindles/rear uprights) are
     very cheap. However the ones for the early cars are obscenely
   expensive
     for what they are.
     Look at Wilkinson's website for exploded drawings and associated
   parts
     descriptions with eye-watering prices for the locking tabs....
     Mike
     Sent from my iPhone
     > On Jan 30, 2020, at 15:12, Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net> wrote:
     >
     >? Dear Forum,
     >
     >
     >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? An Oklahoma Pantera owner bought a set of re-built
     brakes
     >? from one of our vendors, who is gone until next week.? The problem
     is
     >? that the stock shims for the rear calipers were not shipped.? The
     dumb
     >? question is whether the front shims will fit the rear calipers.?
   We
     do
     >? have an extra set of front shims, but I do not think that they'll
     >? fit.? Anyone with actual knowledge of this bit of stock brake
     trivia??
     >
     >
     >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Warmest regards,? Chuck Engles
     >
     > _______________________________________________
     >
     >
     > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
     > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
     > DeTomaso mailing list
     > DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     >
     > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
   etc.)
     use the links above.
     >
     > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
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   the
     list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
   archive
     or approve the archiving of list messages.
     _______________________________________________
     Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
     Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
     DeTomaso mailing list
     DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
     use the links above.
     Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
   any
     message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
     list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
   archive
     or approve the archiving of list messages.
     -------------- next part --------------
         Interesting...Always Wonder why People didn't Front Brakes on the
     Rear!
         Even with a Custom Bracket?
         On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 04:15:51 PM PST, Mike Drew via
     DeTomaso
         <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
         Chuck,
         Two things:
         1). Front and rear caliper bolt spacing is different. You can't
   put
     a
         front anything on the rear.
         2). Rear calipers don't have shims. :)
         Both front and rear have locking tabs which go immediately
     underneath
         the head of the mounting bolts, but they are not shims. They have
     tabs
         which are bent up to prevent bolt rotation. Front calipers also
   have
         shims between caliper and upright which spaces the caliper
   inboard
     by
         the thickness of the shim.
         The caliper locking tabs for the GT5 (which has different
   calipers
     with
         different bolt spacing for the different spindles/rear uprights)
   are
         very cheap. However the ones for the early cars are obscenely
     expensive
         for what they are.
         Look at Wilkinson's website for exploded drawings and associated
     parts
         descriptions with eye-watering prices for the locking tabs....
         Mike
         Sent from my iPhone
         > On Jan 30, 2020, at 15:12, Charles Engles <[1]cengles at cox.net>
     wrote:
         >
         >  Dear Forum,
         >
         >
         >                An Oklahoma Pantera owner bought a set of
   re-built
         brakes
         >  from one of our vendors, who is gone until next week.  The
     problem
         is
         >  that the stock shims for the rear calipers were not shipped.
   The
         dumb
         >  question is whether the front shims will fit the rear
   calipers.
     We
         do
         >  have an extra set of front shims, but I do not think that
   they'll
         >  fit.  Anyone with actual knowledge of this bit of stock brake
         trivia??
         >
         >
         >                                  Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles
         >
         > _______________________________________________
         >
         >
         > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
         > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
         > DeTomaso mailing list
         > [2]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
         > [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
         >
         > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
     etc.)
         use the links above.
         >
         > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
   forward
         any message posted here to all past, current, or future members
   of
     the
         list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
     archive
         or approve the archiving of list messages.
         _______________________________________________
         Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
         Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
         DeTomaso mailing list
         [4]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
         [5]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
         To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
     etc.)
         use the links above.
         Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
   forward
     any
         message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
   the
         list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
     archive
         or approve the archiving of list messages.
     References
         1. mailto:cengles at cox.net
         2. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
         3. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
         4. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
         5. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     ------------------------------
     Message: 13
     Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 21:36:18 -0600
     From: "Charles Engles" <cengles at cox.net>
     To: "'Curt Hall'" <cuvee at sbcglobal.net>, "'Mike Drew'"
     <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
     Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: stock rear brake shims
     Message-ID: <009301d5d7e7$9ad64ad0$d082e070$@cox.net>
     Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
     Dear Curt,
                   Good question.  I do not know the answer.
                   I do recall the rear brake mod of the eighties to put a
     second rear caliper on the rear.  It didn?t catch on, but some people
     were trying to get more brake power on the rear brake rotors and they
     used a second small stock rear caliper rather than a front one as you
     suggest.  I suspect that the obstacle is space for a caliper the size
     of the front plus custom mount plus the cable actuated parking brake.
                 That is my guess which awaits factual refutation.  FWIW.
                                     Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles
     From: Curt Hall [mailto:cuvee at sbcglobal.net]
     Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2020 8:58 PM
     To: Charles Engles; Mike Drew
     Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: stock rear brake shims
     Interesting...Always Wonder why People didn't Front Brakes on the
   Rear!
     Even with a Custom Bracket?
     On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 04:15:51 PM PST, Mike Drew via
   DeTomaso
     <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
     Chuck,
     Two things:
     1). Front and rear caliper bolt spacing is different. You can't put a
     front anything on the rear.
     2). Rear calipers don't have shims. :)
     Both front and rear have locking tabs which go immediately underneath
     the head of the mounting bolts, but they are not shims. They have
   tabs
     which are bent up to prevent bolt rotation. Front calipers also have
     shims between caliper and upright which spaces the caliper inboard by
     the thickness of the shim.
     The caliper locking tabs for the GT5 (which has different calipers
   with
     different bolt spacing for the different spindles/rear uprights) are
     very cheap. However the ones for the early cars are obscenely
   expensive
     for what they are.
     Look at Wilkinson's website for exploded drawings and associated
   parts
     descriptions with eye-watering prices for the locking tabs....
     Mike
     Sent from my iPhone
     > On Jan 30, 2020, at 15:12, Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net> wrote:
     >
     >  Dear Forum,
     >
     >
     >                An Oklahoma Pantera owner bought a set of re-built
     brakes
     >  from one of our vendors, who is gone until next week.  The problem
     is
     >  that the stock shims for the rear calipers were not shipped.  The
     dumb
     >  question is whether the front shims will fit the rear calipers.
   We
     do
     >  have an extra set of front shims, but I do not think that they'll
     >  fit.  Anyone with actual knowledge of this bit of stock brake
     trivia??
     >
     >
     >                                  Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles
     >
     > _______________________________________________
     >
     >
     > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
     > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
     > DeTomaso mailing list
     > DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     >
     > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
   etc.)
     use the links above.
     >
     > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
     any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
   the
     list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
   archive
     or approve the archiving of list messages.
     _______________________________________________
     Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
     Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
     DeTomaso mailing list
     DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
     use the links above.
     Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
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     list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
   archive
     or approve the archiving of list messages.
     -------------- next part --------------
         Dear Curt,
                     Good question.  I do not know the answer.
                     I do recall the rear brake mod of the eighties to put
   a
         second rear caliper on the rear.  It didn't catch on, but some
     people
         were trying to get more brake power on the rear brake rotors and
     they
         used a second small stock rear caliper rather than a front one as
     you
         suggest.  I suspect that the obstacle is space for a caliper the
     size
         of the front plus custom mount plus the cable actuated parking
     brake.
                     That is my guess which awaits factual refutation.
   FWIW.
                                       Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles
         From: Curt Hall [mailto:cuvee at sbcglobal.net]
         Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2020 8:58 PM
         To: Charles Engles; Mike Drew
         Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
         Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: stock rear brake shims
         Interesting...Always Wonder why People didn't Front Brakes on the
     Rear!
         Even with a Custom Bracket?
         On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 04:15:51 PM PST, Mike Drew via
     DeTomaso
         <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
         Chuck,
         Two things:
         1). Front and rear caliper bolt spacing is different. You can't
   put
     a
         front anything on the rear.
         2). Rear calipers don't have shims. :)
         Both front and rear have locking tabs which go immediately
     underneath
         the head of the mounting bolts, but they are not shims. They have
     tabs
         which are bent up to prevent bolt rotation. Front calipers also
   have
         shims between caliper and upright which spaces the caliper
   inboard
     by
         the thickness of the shim.
         The caliper locking tabs for the GT5 (which has different
   calipers
     with
         different bolt spacing for the different spindles/rear uprights)
   are
         very cheap. However the ones for the early cars are obscenely
     expensive
         for what they are.
         Look at Wilkinson's website for exploded drawings and associated
     parts
         descriptions with eye-watering prices for the locking tabs....
         Mike
         Sent from my iPhone
         > On Jan 30, 2020, at 15:12, Charles Engles <[1]cengles at cox.net>
     wrote:
         >
         >  Dear Forum,
         >
         >
         >                An Oklahoma Pantera owner bought a set of
   re-built
         brakes
         >  from one of our vendors, who is gone until next week.  The
     problem
         is
         >  that the stock shims for the rear calipers were not shipped.
   The
         dumb
         >  question is whether the front shims will fit the rear
   calipers.
     We
         do
         >  have an extra set of front shims, but I do not think that
   they'll
         >  fit.  Anyone with actual knowledge of this bit of stock brake
         trivia??
         >
         >
         >                                  Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles
         >
         > _______________________________________________
         >
         >
         > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
         > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
         > DeTomaso mailing list
         > [2]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
         > [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
         >
         > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
     etc.)
         use the links above.
         >
         > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
   forward
         any message posted here to all past, current, or future members
   of
     the
         list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
     archive
         or approve the archiving of list messages.
         _______________________________________________
         Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
         Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
         DeTomaso mailing list
         [4]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
         [5]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
         To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
     etc.)
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     any
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         list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
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         or approve the archiving of list messages.
     References
         1. mailto:cengles at cox.net
         2. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
         3. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
         4. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
         5. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     ------------------------------
     Message: 14
     Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 07:40:38 -0800
     From: Scott Mead Photography <scott at scottmeadphotography.com>
     To: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
     Cc: De Tomaso Forum <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Dennis Fugnetti RIP...
     Message-ID:
     <6A8824A9-81A5-483A-9AF0-BE64DB77CDE5 at scottmeadphotography.com>
     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
     Such sad news. I?ve know Dennis since I was a kid. I have vivid
     memories of Dennis, blasting past my grandfather and I, on a trek to
     Monterey in the ?80s - twin turbos at full song. He was an amazing
     photographer, and one of my inspirations to shoot vehicles myself.
   His
     sense of lighting, scale and design is unparalleled. He could make an
     ugly duckling look like a prince, and a Countach the lust of every
   boy
     that could afford a poster. His rear-quarter shot of a Lamborghini
     Miura that was posted last year, captured the complete essence of the
     car in a single shot.
     Aside from being a fantastic shooter, he was true car guy and one of
     the nicest people I?ve ever met. RIP, Dennis. Keep those turbos
   spoiled
     at full song.
     Sent from my iPhone
     >> On Jan 29, 2020, at 1:14 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso
     <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
     > ?  All,
     >
     >  Those who were around in the 80s may remember the name Dennis
     Fugnetti.
     >    He was a well-known fine arts automotive photographer in
   Southern
     >  California, who owned an exquisite twin-turbo Pantera. He produced
     >  several posters featuring his car (one inexplicably including
     stylized
     >  representations of a polished Mangusta wheel?), and his car was
     >  featured on the cover and inside the first really fine book on the
     >  marque, Panteras For The Road by Henry Rasmussen:
     >
     >  [cid:ABB23469-668F-4040-BBCB-D55370791076-L0-001]
     >  [cid:C26B6DC1-4F99-4A95-8849-A4C416ACC38F-L0-001]
     >  [cid:EAC00BF7-F951-40B3-AAD5-1FBB3B1C97F3-L0-001]
     >  [cid:7CF1991B-0F9C-4ED5-BB89-DD0E5954A82F-L0-001]
     >
     >  Jeff Maxwell informed me the other day that Dennis has passed
   away.
     His
     >  business lives on, shared with his daughter:
     >
     >  [1]https://www.fugnettiimages.com/page/about2
     >
     >  I only met him once, at Concorso Italiano long after he sold his
     >  Pantera. He was much younger than I was expecting him to be, not
     all
     >  that much older than me. He was also extremely friendly and
     personable.
     >  My condolences to his family for what has to have been an untimely
     >  passing. :(
     >
     >  I once found his old Pantera rotting at a used car lot in
   Monterey,
     >  sitting outdoors. This was in the early 1990s. The beautiful
     polished
     >  engine looked like crap as the elements had taken their
     >  toll--everything was corroded.  I took it for a test drive and it
     ran
     >  like crap too.  The turbos weren't dialed in so it ran terribly,
     then
     >  spectacularly overheated and blew its water all over the place. We
     >  barely made it back to the dealer.  It had been a fine car when he
     >  owned it, so it's sad the subsequent owner or owners really let it
     fall
     >  apart.
     >
     >  It was later bought by a Silicon Valley guy who retrofitted a
     standard
     >  motor, then quickly tired of it and sold it to buy a Ferrari 308
     from
     >  the divorcing Lee Majors and Farrah Fawcett-Majors. I then lost
     touch
     >  with it. I think it's still floating around in So-Cal?
     >
     >  Spare Dennis a thought each time you admire his timeless poster,
     which
     >  many, many of us have hanging on our walls.....
     >
     >  Mike
     >  Sent from my iPad
     >
     > References
     >
     >  1. https://www.fugnettiimages.com/page/about2
     > _______________________________________________
     >
     >
     > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
     > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
     > DeTomaso mailing list
     > DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     >
     > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
   etc.)
     use the links above.
     >
     > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
     any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
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     list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
   archive
     or approve the archiving of list messages.
     ------------------------------
     Message: 15
     Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 08:28:27 -0800
     From: Larry Stock <larrys at panteraparts.com>
     To: Scott Mead Photography <scott at scottmeadphotography.com>, Mike
   Drew
     <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
     Cc: De Tomaso Forum <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Dennis Fugnetti RIP...
     Message-ID: <E517A392-9046-45DB-A309-B17A3526F61F at panteraparts.com>
     Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
     Best said, only coming from Scott
     ?On 1/31/20, 7:40 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Scott Mead Photography"
     <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
     scott at scottmeadphotography.com> wrote:
         Such sad news. I?ve know Dennis since I was a kid. I have vivid
     memories of Dennis, blasting past my grandfather and I, on a trek to
     Monterey in the ?80s - twin turbos at full song. He was an amazing
     photographer, and one of my inspirations to shoot vehicles myself.
   His
     sense of lighting, scale and design is unparalleled. He could make an
     ugly duckling look like a prince, and a Countach the lust of every
   boy
     that could afford a poster. His rear-quarter shot of a Lamborghini
     Miura that was posted last year, captured the complete essence of the
     car in a single shot.
         Aside from being a fantastic shooter, he was true car guy and one
     of the nicest people I?ve ever met. RIP, Dennis. Keep those turbos
     spoiled at full song.
         Sent from my iPhone
         >> On Jan 29, 2020, at 1:14 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso
     <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
         > ?  All,
         >
         >  Those who were around in the 80s may remember the name Dennis
     Fugnetti.
         >    He was a well-known fine arts automotive photographer in
     Southern
         >  California, who owned an exquisite twin-turbo Pantera. He
     produced
         >  several posters featuring his car (one inexplicably including
     stylized
         >  representations of a polished Mangusta wheel?), and his car
   was
         >  featured on the cover and inside the first really fine book on
     the
         >  marque, Panteras For The Road by Henry Rasmussen:
         >
         >  [cid:ABB23469-668F-4040-BBCB-D55370791076-L0-001]
         >  [cid:C26B6DC1-4F99-4A95-8849-A4C416ACC38F-L0-001]
         >  [cid:EAC00BF7-F951-40B3-AAD5-1FBB3B1C97F3-L0-001]
         >  [cid:7CF1991B-0F9C-4ED5-BB89-DD0E5954A82F-L0-001]
         >
         >  Jeff Maxwell informed me the other day that Dennis has passed
     away. His
         >  business lives on, shared with his daughter:
         >
         >  [1]https://www.fugnettiimages.com/page/about2
         >
         >  I only met him once, at Concorso Italiano long after he sold
     his
         >  Pantera. He was much younger than I was expecting him to be,
     not all
         >  that much older than me. He was also extremely friendly and
     personable.
         >  My condolences to his family for what has to have been an
     untimely
         >  passing. :(
         >
         >  I once found his old Pantera rotting at a used car lot in
     Monterey,
         >  sitting outdoors. This was in the early 1990s. The beautiful
     polished
         >  engine looked like crap as the elements had taken their
         >  toll--everything was corroded.  I took it for a test drive and
     it ran
         >  like crap too.  The turbos weren't dialed in so it ran
     terribly, then
         >  spectacularly overheated and blew its water all over the
   place.
     We
         >  barely made it back to the dealer.  It had been a fine car
   when
     he
         >  owned it, so it's sad the subsequent owner or owners really
   let
     it fall
         >  apart.
         >
         >  It was later bought by a Silicon Valley guy who retrofitted a
     standard
         >  motor, then quickly tired of it and sold it to buy a Ferrari
     308 from
         >  the divorcing Lee Majors and Farrah Fawcett-Majors. I then
   lost
     touch
         >  with it. I think it's still floating around in So-Cal?
         >
         >  Spare Dennis a thought each time you admire his timeless
     poster, which
         >  many, many of us have hanging on our walls.....
         >
         >  Mike
         >  Sent from my iPad
         >
         > References
         >
         >  1. https://www.fugnettiimages.com/page/about2
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