[DeTomaso] Pantera Tach Shows 0 at Cold Idle

Doug Braun doug351c at gmail.com
Wed Dec 30 14:49:38 EST 2020


 Mike,

I see that you tried a second tach ground already but where did you make
your connections?
I recommend you have a helper touch one end of a wire directly to the
battery's (-) terminal while you touch the other end to the tach's case.

Doug Braun
blue 73L #5505

On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 8:58 AM Mike Reilly <reillyms at live.com> wrote:

>    Hi all.  Thanks for the input.  I suspect a ground issue somewhere in
>    the circuit which I'll try to run down.  Although I did try giving the
>    tach it's own ground wire but that didn't change the behavior.  I did
>    install a new fuse box and ignition switch controller (ISC) from Jon
>    Haas so I may have caused some grounding issue as I moved wires
>    around.  I did trouble shoot with Jon months ago but all his products
>    seemed to be working as designed.  It was doing this before I switch to
>    the new fuse box.  I was hoping the new fuse box would help.  It hadn't
>    done it before the ISC was installed but I also had a no start issue
>    then due to a bad ignition switch.  So I was touching lots of wiring
>    then.
>
>
>    I'll have some detective work to do here and may need to trace the
>    circuit and check everything as folks have suggested.  I'll probably
>    reach out to Jon for any further suggestions as well.  Fun with decades
>    old wiring : )
>
>
>    Dennis, I have a DuraSpark distributor and electronic ignition system
>    that's been in the car since 1992 and it didn't require a tach
>    adaptor.  I only recently had this problem come up so I don't think
>    it's my ignition system : (
>
>
>    Thanks, Mike
>
>
>    From: [1]dennis617 at aol.com
>    Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 6:44 AM
>    To: [2]reillyms at live.com; [3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>    Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Pantera Tach Shows 0 at Cold Idle
>
>
>    Hi Mike,
>
>    I've been having a similar problem with my tach, although, I've never
>    tried the the window switch trick.  When my car sits idle for a long
>    period I find that my tach stops working until I drive it for a few
>    minutes or if it gets a chance to really warm up.  I haven't solved the
>    problem yet, but I suspect that it is the tach adapter that was
>    installed when the engine was totally redone and I changed over to the
>    FAST EZ 2.0 EFI and a mallory ignition system.  I never had any
>    problems with my tach until the adapter was added to the system.  Are
>    you using an adapter as well?
>
>    Dennis
>
>
>    [cid:image002.png at 01D6DE89.F5A25270]
>
>    On Tuesday, December 29, 2020 Mike Reilly <reillyms at live.com> wrote:
>
>      Hi all.  I've been having a weird tach problem for a few months now.
>
>      When I cold start the car the tach sits at zero but will respond when
>    I
>
>      give it gas and go to 2000 RPMs for example.  When I let off the gas
>    it
>
>      goes back to zero yet the car is idling fine at around 900 RPMs.  Now
>
>      when I push up on both window switches then the tach will respond and
>
>      read at idle speed but when I let go of the window switches the tach
>
>      goes back to zero.  However, once the car is warmed up then the tach
>
>      works fine and shows idle speed etc. without ever going down to zero
>
>      unless the motor is turned off.  If I restart the car when warm the
>
>      tack works fine.  I think somehow I'm not getting enough voltage to
>    the
>
>      tack when the car is cold.
>
>
>
>      Videos of the problem:
>
>        * Cold start and playing with the windows (you can hear me
>    describing
>
>          what I'm doing near the end of this video)
>
>          ([1][4]https://youtu.be/yIFtsp0ljzk)
>
>        * Example of revving the motor when cold
>
>          ([2][5]https://youtu.be/kWaRfGfj2HU)
>
>        * Warm running and every thing works fine
>
>          ([3][6]https://youtu.be/X1RY4VwmSmA)
>
>
>
>      Jon Haas rebuilt my tach as I thought that might have been the
>    problem
>
>      but it was doing this behavior both before and after Jon's rebuild.
>
>      (By the way he does great work on rebuilds and found some cracked
>
>      resistors in my tach that were about to fail).  I also converted to
>    his
>
>      new alternator to replace my stock rebuilt alternator thinking that
>
>      would be the issue but the tach idle problem remained.  This new
>
>      alternator has a built in voltage regulator.
>
>
>
>      I measured the various voltages coming to the tach and per my comms
>
>      with Jon these are correct voltages when the engine is running:
>
>        * Voltage at the tach (+terminal) light blue wire = 14.84V
>
>        * Voltage at the +coil wire = 14V
>
>        * Voltage at the +Duraspark = 14V
>
>
>
>      My Pantera is #7366 and is a 74L running a DuraSpark electronic
>
>      ignition.  My battery is strong, new and kept on a trickle charger
>
>
>
>      Any ideas as to why when the motor is cold the tach won't register at
>
>      idle speed but does once the car is at operating temp?  It's also
>
>      strange that it will come back to life when cold if I push up on both
>
>      window switches when the windows are already closed thus adding some
>
>      load to the car's electrical circuit.
>
>
>
>      Thanks, Mike Reilly
>
>
>    References
>
>
>      1. [7]https://youtu.be/yIFtsp0ljzk
>
>      2. [8]https://youtu.be/kWaRfGfj2HU
>
>      3. [9]https://youtu.be/X1RY4VwmSmA
>
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-------------- next part --------------
   Mike,
   I see that you tried a second tach ground already but where did you
   make your connections?
   I recommend you have a helper touch one end of a wire directly to the
   battery's (-) terminal while you touch the other end to the tach's
   case.
   Doug Braun
   blue 73L #5505

   On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 8:58 AM Mike Reilly <[1]reillyms at live.com>
   wrote:

     A  A Hi all.A  Thanks for the input.A  I suspect a ground issue
     somewhere in
     A  A the circuit which I'll try to run down.A  Although I did try
     giving the
     A  A tach it's own ground wire but that didn't change the
     behavior.A  I did
     A  A install a new fuse box and ignition switch controller (ISC)
     from Jon
     A  A Haas so I may have caused some grounding issue as I moved wires
     A  A around.A  I did trouble shoot with Jon months ago but all his
     products
     A  A seemed to be working as designed.A  It was doing this before I
     switch to
     A  A the new fuse box.A  I was hoping the new fuse box would help.A
     It hadn't
     A  A done it before the ISC was installed but I also had a no start
     issue
     A  A then due to a bad ignition switch.A  So I was touching lots of
     wiring
     A  A then.
     A  A I'll have some detective work to do here and may need to trace
     the
     A  A circuit and check everything as folks have suggested.A  I'll
     probably
     A  A reach out to Jon for any further suggestions as well.A  Fun
     with decades
     A  A old wiring : )
     A  A Dennis, I have a DuraSpark distributor and electronic ignition
     system
     A  A that's been in the car since 1992 and it didn't require a tach
     A  A adaptor.A  I only recently had this problem come up so I don't
     think
     A  A it's my ignition system : (
     A  A Thanks, Mike
     A  A From: [1][2]dennis617 at aol.com
     A  A Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 6:44 AM
     A  A To: [2][3]reillyms at live.com;
     [3][4]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     A  A Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Pantera Tach Shows 0 at Cold Idle
     A  A Hi Mike,
     A  A I've been having a similar problem with my tach, although, I've
     never
     A  A tried the the window switch trick.A  When my car sits idle for
     a long
     A  A period I find that my tach stops working until I drive it for a
     few
     A  A minutes or if it gets a chance to really warm up.A  I haven't
     solved the
     A  A problem yet, but I suspect that it is the tach adapter that was
     A  A installed when the engine was totally redone and I changed over
     to the
     A  A FAST EZ 2.0 EFI and a mallory ignition system.A  I never had
     any
     A  A problems with my tach until the adapter was added to the
     system.A  Are
     A  A you using an adapter as well?
     A  A Dennis
     A  A [cid:image002.png at 01D6DE89.F5A25270]
     A  A On Tuesday, December 29, 2020 Mike Reilly
     <[5]reillyms at live.com> wrote:
     A  A  A Hi all.A  I've been having a weird tach problem for a few
     months now.
     A  A  A When I cold start the car the tach sits at zero but will
     respond when
     A  A I
     A  A  A give it gas and go to 2000 RPMs for example.A  When I let
     off the gas
     A  A it
     A  A  A goes back to zero yet the car is idling fine at around 900
     RPMs.A  Now
     A  A  A when I push up on both window switches then the tach will
     respond and
     A  A  A read at idle speed but when I let go of the window switches
     the tach
     A  A  A goes back to zero.A  However, once the car is warmed up then
     the tach
     A  A  A works fine and shows idle speed etc. without ever going down
     to zero
     A  A  A unless the motor is turned off.A  If I restart the car when
     warm the
     A  A  A tack works fine.A  I think somehow I'm not getting enough
     voltage to
     A  A the
     A  A  A tack when the car is cold.
     A  A  A Videos of the problem:
     A  A  A  A * Cold start and playing with the windows (you can hear
     me
     A  A describing
     A  A  A  A  A what I'm doing near the end of this video)
     A  A  A  A  A ([1][4][6]https://youtu.be/yIFtsp0ljzk)
     A  A  A  A * Example of revving the motor when cold
     A  A  A  A  A ([2][5][7]https://youtu.be/kWaRfGfj2HU)
     A  A  A  A * Warm running and every thing works fine
     A  A  A  A  A ([3][6][8]https://youtu.be/X1RY4VwmSmA)
     A  A  A Jon Haas rebuilt my tach as I thought that might have been
     the
     A  A problem
     A  A  A but it was doing this behavior both before and after Jon's
     rebuild.
     A  A  A (By the way he does great work on rebuilds and found some
     cracked
     A  A  A resistors in my tach that were about to fail).A  I also
     converted to
     A  A his
     A  A  A new alternator to replace my stock rebuilt alternator
     thinking that
     A  A  A would be the issue but the tach idle problem remained.A
     This new
     A  A  A alternator has a built in voltage regulator.
     A  A  A I measured the various voltages coming to the tach and per
     my comms
     A  A  A with Jon these are correct voltages when the engine is
     running:
     A  A  A  A * Voltage at the tach (+terminal) light blue wire =
     14.84V
     A  A  A  A * Voltage at the +coil wire = 14V
     A  A  A  A * Voltage at the +Duraspark = 14V
     A  A  A My Pantera is #7366 and is a 74L running a DuraSpark
     electronic
     A  A  A ignition.A  My battery is strong, new and kept on a trickle
     charger
     A  A  A Any ideas as to why when the motor is cold the tach won't
     register at
     A  A  A idle speed but does once the car is at operating temp?A
     It's also
     A  A  A strange that it will come back to life when cold if I push
     up on both
     A  A  A window switches when the windows are already closed thus
     adding some
     A  A  A load to the car's electrical circuit.
     A  A  A Thanks, Mike Reilly
     A  A References
     A  A  A 1. [7][9]https://youtu.be/yIFtsp0ljzk
     A  A  A 2. [8][10]https://youtu.be/kWaRfGfj2HU
     A  A  A 3. [9][11]https://youtu.be/X1RY4VwmSmA
     A  A _______________________________________________
     A  A Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
     A  A Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
     A  A DeTomaso mailing list
     A  A [10][12]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     A
     A [11][13]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     A  A To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
     etc.)
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     A  A message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
     the
     A  A list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
     archive
     A  A or approve the archiving of list messages.
     References
     A  A 1. mailto:[14]dennis617 at aol.com
     A  A 2. mailto:[15]reillyms at live.com
     A  A 3. mailto:[16]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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References

   1. mailto:reillyms at live.com
   2. mailto:dennis617 at aol.com
   3. mailto:reillyms at live.com
   4. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   5. mailto:reillyms at live.com
   6. https://youtu.be/yIFtsp0ljzk
   7. https://youtu.be/kWaRfGfj2HU
   8. https://youtu.be/X1RY4VwmSmA
   9. https://youtu.be/yIFtsp0ljzk
  10. https://youtu.be/kWaRfGfj2HU
  11. https://youtu.be/X1RY4VwmSmA
  12. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  13. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  14. mailto:dennis617 at aol.com
  15. mailto:reillyms at live.com
  16. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  17. https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2FyIFtsp0ljzk&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cf5ad5439d0804304ac2808d8acd176ac%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637449362925781170%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=oArOd%2BUyxza6sQUyDcErITtVE2O1k00C8T9oHGD0N6Y%3D&reserved=0
  18. https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2FkWaRfGfj2HU&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cf5ad5439d0804304ac2808d8acd176ac%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637449362925791167%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=z4RrWM5bC0Wphu7C9mk5Pu%2FtpeTEu7m%2BOBlsF%2BiT3Y4%3D&reserved=0
  19. https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2FX1RY4VwmSmA&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cf5ad5439d0804304ac2808d8acd176ac%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637449362925801158%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=vC6ux7G%2F%2F6JXPilQt1CrS5iMz2rQ9Y3kBC%2BHgruBy68%3D&reserved=0
  20. https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2FyIFtsp0ljzk&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cf5ad5439d0804304ac2808d8acd176ac%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637449362925801158%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=QFW1uIu52STY3da9GrCDzITfmin7O4EzhgPRsfqnMJA%3D&reserved=0
  21. https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2FkWaRfGfj2HU&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cf5ad5439d0804304ac2808d8acd176ac%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637449362925811157%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=C6cjno%2BMdL1SXeJ5%2Bc3Auxl9yz6acZ8oFl3Z46VHkmI%3D&reserved=0
  22. https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2FX1RY4VwmSmA&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cf5ad5439d0804304ac2808d8acd176ac%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637449362925821152%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=djUHBWVGhOozhgSp7CQgd9RXm2Py94EbDzXNAY5mGVs%3D&reserved=0
  23. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  24. https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cf5ad5439d0804304ac2808d8acd176ac%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637449362925821152%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=gxxRiI0i0SR2NbYiNyXX5ah5PlGiVGeKINrHXscNVRs%3D&reserved=0
  25. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  26. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso


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