[DeTomaso] Seat Belts for PB

[Julian Kift]

I was only talking to someone yesterday regarding the pros and cons of harnesses versus seatbelts.

I switched away from a harness partially for the reason that Corey mentions, it wasn't possible to reach the ignition switch buckled in. As I'm sure you are aware as a trauma surgeon a harness will keep one very rigid in the seat and all the impact will be absorbed through the neck. There is a good reason that HANS devices are mandated in racing in conjunction with harnesses. The use of an antisubmarine (5 or 6-point belts) is wise, but not that effective if looped around the front of a normal street seat, race seats are equipped with through seat provision for the belt to be tight against your body/crotch. Equally, belt anchoring isn't just a case of drilling a hole and fender washers, structural mounting points are required for the belts to do their job.

There is also at least one documented Pantera rollover accident where the occupant probably would not have survived had he been wearing a harness instead of his 3-point seat belt. Also, if you have multiple passenger (or drivers) adjusting the belts for fit each time can be a bit of a PITA.

That all said if you are still convinced harnesses are the way to go, then as they expire after 5 years for most sanctioning bodies used ones in perfectly good useable street condition are often available very cheap.

Julian

________________________________
From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Corey Price <coreyjprice at gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, December 14, 2020 12:18 PM
To: Oreste Romeo <nrtnracer at yahoo.com>; Detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Seat Belts for PB

Rusty,

I think Mike has given good advice on the 4, 5, and 6 point harness
options. Mike is a pilot who likes being strapped in! Some people I know
hate their multi-point harnesses for casual driving as it limits your reach
without unbuckling the harness. A good "third option" between a lap belt
and the multi-point harness is adapting an aftermarket shoulder-type seat
belt, such as one meant for a Toyota FJ40. The retractor is then mounted on
the firewall. The shoulder belt gives you more security than the lap belt
but also allows for more freedom within the cabin.

Corey

On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 at 11:03 AM Oreste Romeo via DeTomaso <
detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:

> All,
> I am fully restoring a late PB down to metal with essentially
> (miraculously) zero rust at paint stripping except for the battery tray
> inner corner.  I will be sending photos to the registry once completed and
> the interval stages with a full report of the work done.  I was wishing to
> change the seat belt harnesses and weld the plates in for 5 or 6 pt
> Schroths or Willans, but remain concerned on the legal aspect as DOT is not
> available for 5 or 6 pt restraints- not withstanding the insurance aspect
> of things voiding claims.  As for safety, I am a trauma surgeon by trade
> and acutely aware of the biophysical and kinematic aspects of the impacts-
> hence why it would appeal to change to newer harnesses.  I have resisted
> the temptation to modify anything as I am very biased on originality except
> for brembo brakes that were used in later post Ford years.  I wanted to ask
> this forum, as I own the original belts, if it would be best for the re
> webbed DOT to be reinstalled as opposed to placing new harnesses.  It’s the
> fixed type, far from ideal but as I don’t race, keeping in with
> originality.  Opinions/ suggestions are very welcome as I am nearing
> completion of a two years dismount/ nuts and bolts restoration.
> Thanks in advance for any input.
> Rusty.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
>
>
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-------------- next part --------------
   I was only talking to someone yesterday regarding the pros and cons of
   harnesses versus seatbelts.

   I switched away from a harness partially for the reason that Corey
   mentions, it wasn't possible to reach the ignition switch buckled in.
   As I'm sure you are aware as a trauma surgeon a harness will keep one
   very rigid in the seat and all the impact will be absorbed through the
   neck. There is a good reason that HANS devices are mandated in racing
   in conjunction with harnesses. The use of an antisubmarine (5 or
   6-point belts) is wise, but not that effective if looped around the
   front of a normal street seat, race seats are equipped with through
   seat provision for the belt to be tight against your body/crotch.
   Equally, belt anchoring isn't just a case of drilling a hole and fender
   washers, structural mounting points are required for the belts to do
   their job.

   There is also at least one documented Pantera rollover accident where
   the occupant probably would not have survived had he been wearing a
   harness instead of his 3-point seat belt. Also, if you have multiple
   passenger (or drivers) adjusting the belts for fit each time can be a
   bit of a PITA.

   That all said if you are still convinced harnesses are the way to go,
   then as they expire after 5 years for most sanctioning bodies used ones
   in perfectly good useable street condition are often available very
   cheap.

   Julian
     __________________________________________________________________

   From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of
   Corey Price <coreyjprice at gmail.com>
   Sent: Monday, December 14, 2020 12:18 PM
   To: Oreste Romeo <nrtnracer at yahoo.com>; Detomaso
   <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Seat Belts for PB

   Rusty,
   I think Mike has given good advice on the 4, 5, and 6 point harness
   options. Mike is a pilot who likes being strapped in! Some people I
   know
   hate their multi-point harnesses for casual driving as it limits your
   reach
   without unbuckling the harness. A good "third option" between a lap
   belt
   and the multi-point harness is adapting an aftermarket shoulder-type
   seat
   belt, such as one meant for a Toyota FJ40. The retractor is then
   mounted on
   the firewall. The shoulder belt gives you more security than the lap
   belt
   but also allows for more freedom within the cabin.
   Corey
   On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 at 11:03 AM Oreste Romeo via DeTomaso <
   detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
   > All,
   > I am fully restoring a late PB down to metal with essentially
   > (miraculously) zero rust at paint stripping except for the battery
   tray
   > inner corner.  I will be sending photos to the registry once
   completed and
   > the interval stages with a full report of the work done.  I was
   wishing to
   > change the seat belt harnesses and weld the plates in for 5 or 6 pt
   > Schroths or Willans, but remain concerned on the legal aspect as DOT
   is not
   > available for 5 or 6 pt restraints- not withstanding the insurance
   aspect
   > of things voiding claims.  As for safety, I am a trauma surgeon by
   trade
   > and acutely aware of the biophysical and kinematic aspects of the
   impacts-
   > hence why it would appeal to change to newer harnesses.  I have
   resisted
   > the temptation to modify anything as I am very biased on originality
   except
   > for brembo brakes that were used in later post Ford years.  I wanted
   to ask
   > this forum, as I own the original belts, if it would be best for the
   re
   > webbed DOT to be reinstalled as opposed to placing new harnesses.
   It's the
   > fixed type, far from ideal but as I don't race, keeping in with
   > originality.  Opinions/ suggestions are very welcome as I am nearing
   > completion of a two years dismount/ nuts and bolts restoration.
   > Thanks in advance for any input.
   > Rusty.
   >
   > Sent from my iPhone
   > _______________________________________________
   >
   >
   > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
   > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   > DeTomaso mailing list
   > DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   > [1]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   >
   > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   use
   > the links above.
   >
   > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
   any
   > message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
   list.
   > They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
   approve
   > the archiving of list messages.

References

   1. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso