[DeTomaso] Seat Belts for PB

[Mike Drew]

Rusty,

Your project sounds exciting!

You can install four-point harnesses with no drilling or welding. The 1971 cars had no inertia reels (fixed belts) so you can use the stock holes for the lap belts. The Pantera vendors sell a bar that goes between the stock shoulder mounting bolts, which can support shoulder harnesses. 

http://hallpantera.com/cgi-bin/p/awtp-product.cgi?d=hallpantera-inc&item=21449

Note that the 1971 cars used a narrower bolt spacing and thus require a shorter bar in order to fit properly, so be sure to specify that when ordering. 

Be sure to get shoulder harnesses designed to loop around a roll bar, as opposed to single-seater harnesses which typically bolt in up top too. 

If you want a fifth point, it only requires drilling a discreet hole in the floor. Use a large fender washer or doubler plate of steel between the underside of the floor and the face of the nut securing the fifth point. 

As for the belts themselves, there are a million style available. I wouldn’t say there is any advantage to buying British (Willans) or German (Schroth) belts versus the numerous US-made ones, as they are all certified to the pretty much the same standards. SFI is the North American standard and FIA is global. Most belts are not FIA certified simply due to cost.  The FIA standard isn’t any more stringent or ‘better’.

I have Deist belts with a traditional latch and link in my Pantera, and my wife has Crow belts with a camlock latch in her Pantera. It takes slightly less dexterity to use camlock latches, making them a bit more user-friendly, but they are easier to dislodge accidentally. A friend managed to undo his camlock while his SCCA race car (VW Scirocco) was rolling multiple times, which led to him bouncing around the interior like a pachinko ball. (Thankfully he was unhurt).  

If you are restoring your car to concours standard, keep your stock belts in a box for the next guy.  If it is being modified, I have a friend who is restoring a push button back to original who needs a set of 1971 belts and would happily buy yours—let me know. 

Cheers!

Mike

Sent from my iPad

> On Dec 14, 2020, at 10:02, Oreste Romeo via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
> 
> All,
> I am fully restoring a late PB down to metal with essentially (miraculously) zero rust at paint stripping except for the battery tray inner corner.  I will be sending photos to the registry once completed and the interval stages with a full report of the work done.  I was wishing to change the seat belt harnesses and weld the plates in for 5 or 6 pt Schroths or Willans, but remain concerned on the legal aspect as DOT is not available for 5 or 6 pt restraints- not withstanding the insurance aspect of things voiding claims.  As for safety, I am a trauma surgeon by trade and acutely aware of the biophysical and kinematic aspects of the impacts- hence why it would appeal to change to newer harnesses.  I have resisted the temptation to modify anything as I am very biased on originality except for brembo brakes that were used in later post Ford years.  I wanted to ask this forum, as I own the original belts, if it would be best for the re webbed DOT to be reinstalled as opposed to placing new harnesses.  It’s the fixed type, far from ideal but as I don’t race, keeping in with originality.  Opinions/ suggestions are very welcome as I am nearing completion of a two years dismount/ nuts and bolts restoration.
> Thanks in advance for any input.
> Rusty.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
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-------------- next part --------------
   Rusty,

   Your project sounds exciting!

   You can install four-point harnesses with no drilling or welding. The
   1971 cars had no inertia reels (fixed belts) so you can use the stock
   holes for the lap belts. The Pantera vendors sell a bar that goes
   between the stock shoulder mounting bolts, which can support shoulder
   harnesses.

   [1]http://hallpantera.com/cgi-bin/p/awtp-product.cgi?d=hallpantera-inc&
   item=21449

   Note that the 1971 cars used a narrower bolt spacing and thus require a
   shorter bar in order to fit properly, so be sure to specify that when
   ordering.

   Be sure to get shoulder harnesses designed to loop around a roll bar,
   as opposed to single-seater harnesses which typically bolt in up top
   too.

   If you want a fifth point, it only requires drilling a discreet hole in
   the floor. Use a large fender washer or doubler plate of steel between
   the underside of the floor and the face of the nut securing the fifth
   point.

   As for the belts themselves, there are a million style available. I
   wouldn't say there is any advantage to buying British (Willans) or
   German (Schroth) belts versus the numerous US-made ones, as they are
   all certified to the pretty much the same standards. SFI is the North
   American standard and FIA is global. Most belts are not FIA certified
   simply due to cost.  The FIA standard isn't any more stringent or
   `better'.

   I have Deist belts with a traditional latch and link in my Pantera, and
   my wife has Crow belts with a camlock latch in her Pantera. It takes
   slightly less dexterity to use camlock latches, making them a bit more
   user-friendly, but they are easier to dislodge accidentally. A friend
   managed to undo his camlock while his SCCA race car (VW Scirocco) was
   rolling multiple times, which led to him bouncing around the interior
   like a pachinko ball. (Thankfully he was unhurt).

   If you are restoring your car to concours standard, keep your stock
   belts in a box for the next guy.  If it is being modified, I have a
   friend who is restoring a push button back to original who needs a set
   of 1971 belts and would happily buy yours--let me know.

   Cheers!

   Mike
   Sent from my iPad

     On Dec 14, 2020, at 10:02, Oreste Romeo via DeTomaso
     <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:

   All,
   I am fully restoring a late PB down to metal with essentially
   (miraculously) zero rust at paint stripping except for the battery tray
   inner corner.  I will be sending photos to the registry once completed
   and the interval stages with a full report of the work done.  I was
   wishing to change the seat belt harnesses and weld the plates in for 5
   or 6 pt Schroths or Willans, but remain concerned on the legal aspect
   as DOT is not available for 5 or 6 pt restraints- not withstanding the
   insurance aspect of things voiding claims.  As for safety, I am a
   trauma surgeon by trade and acutely aware of the biophysical and
   kinematic aspects of the impacts- hence why it would appeal to change
   to newer harnesses.  I have resisted the temptation to modify anything
   as I am very biased on originality except for brembo brakes that were
   used in later post Ford years.  I wanted to ask this forum, as I own
   the original belts, if it would be best for the re webbed DOT to be
   reinstalled as opposed to placing new harnesses.  It's the fixed type,
   far from ideal but as I don't race, keeping in with originality.
   Opinions/ suggestions are very welcome as I am nearing completion of a
   two years dismount/ nuts and bolts restoration.
   Thanks in advance for any input.
   Rusty.
   Sent from my iPhone
   _______________________________________________
   Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
   Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   DeTomaso mailing list
   DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   use the links above.
   Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
   message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
   list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
   or approve the archiving of list messages.

References

   1. http://hallpantera.com/cgi-bin/p/awtp-product.cgi?d=hallpantera-inc&item=21449