[DeTomaso] NPC: Tesla in space
Larry-Ohio Time Corp
Larry at ohiotimecorp.com
Thu Feb 15 10:57:29 EST 2018
Hmmmm sounds like Paul's got a basement conundrum...
Larry (my cars on a lift too) - Cleveland
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf
Of Paul Timko
Sent: February 14, 2018 6:37 PM
To: Email List Address For Posting
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: Tesla in space
Actually most of my car is sitting in the garage with parts in boxes and on
shelves in the basement. So my car is moving at the same speed as Larry's
Paul
#9270
On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 7:45 AM Larry-Ohio Time Corp
<Larry at ohiotimecorp.com>
wrote:
>
>
> So Paul are you saying my car,that is sitting in boxes, is as fast as your
> car?
>
> Larry (not) - Cleveland
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf
> Of Paul Timko
> Sent: February 12, 2018 10:59 PM
> To: Email List Address For Posting
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: Tesla in space
>
> The Tesla is orbiting the sun every 1.6 years. My Pantera is orbiting the
> sun once every year! Which one is faster?
>
> Paul #9270
>
> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 6:10 PM Jeff Detrich <jjdetrich at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > "Billions of years from now, when our Sun has
> > A A turned into a red giant and engulfed the Earth in nuclear fire,
> > the
> > A A Pioneer, [2]Voyager, and [3]New Horizons probes will still be
> > traveling
> > A A through our galaxy like a quintet of robotic Odysseus's."
> > I believe VGER will return us and will collect the Tesla on its way
> > back to save us
> > A from the Sun.
> > Live long and prosper.
> > Jeff
> > 6559
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 1:13 PM, Larry-Ohio Time Corp
> > <[1]Larry at ohiotimecorp.com> wrote:
> >
> > A A If the SpaceX [1]Falcon Heavy is the world's most powerful
> > rocket, then
> > A A the Tesla Roadster that it shot into interplanetary space
holds
> > the
> > A A record for the fastest car in history. This cosmic convertible
> > will
> > A A orbit around the Sun once every 1.6 years, but how long will
it
> > A A continue to do so, and what will be its fate? Will it still
> > look as
> > A A pristine a billion years from now as it did in the videos
> > beamed back
> > A A to Earth? Probably not.
> > A A At the moment, there are five US spacecraft speeding out of
our
> > Solar
> > A A System, never to return. Billions of years from now, when our
> > Sun has
> > A A turned into a red giant and engulfed the Earth in nuclear
fire,
> > the
> > A A Pioneer, [2]Voyager, and [3]New Horizons probes will still be
> > traveling
> > A A through our galaxy like a quintet of robotic Odysseus's.
> > A A Even back in our system and revolving about our Earth are
> > satellites
> > A A that will still be around for many millions of years. For
> > example, one
> > A A Earth-orbiting satellite, [4]LAGEOS-1, is a passive laser
> > reflector
> > A A satellite that will not only remain circling our planet for
8.4
> > million
> > A A years, but will remain functional for most of that time.
> > A A With a track record like that, it looks as if the Tesla
> > Roadster that
> > A A rocketed into space on February 6, 2018 will be cruising
> > happily among
> > A A the stars as a permanent monument to the early days of
> > commercial deep
> > A A space travel. It's a nice thought that the Starman mannequin
> > driver and
> > A A his cherry red ride will still be around long after the
> > pyramids have
> > A A crumbled to sand.
> > A A Except that's not going to happen. In fact, the Starman and
the
> > A A Roadster are in for a very unpleasant time and may not be in
> > very good
> > A A shape after a few years. And their lifespan, while huge by
> > human
> > A A standards, may be rather limited.
> > A A At the moment, the Falcon Heavy second stage and the Roadster
> > attached
> > A A to it are in an orbit that [5]Jonathan McDowell of the
> > A A Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics has recalculated
> > from Elon
> > A A Musk's rather generous [6]rough estimate of a few hours after
> > liftoff.
> > A A According to McDowell, the second stage is a Hohmann transfer
> > orbit,
> > A A which is most economical orbit in terms of energy for going
> > from one
> > A A place to another.
> > A A Where Musk estimated that the second stage was circling the
Sun
> > at a
> > A A distance between 91 million mi (150 million km) and 240
million
> > mi (390
> > A A million km) with an inclination of 29-o to the ecliptic,
> > McDowell
> > A A calculates that its orbit is between 92 million mi (148
million
> > km) and
> > A A 158 million mi (255 million km) with an inclination of 1.1-o
> > and a
> > A A period of about 1.6 years. This puts its farthest distance
from
> > the sun
> > A A just beyond the orbit of Mars.
> > A A The popular idea is that the Roadster will orbit the Sun for
> > hundreds
> > A A of millions, if not billions of years, but that isn't the
case.
> > The
> > A A second stage and Roadster are now essentially a [7]near-Earth
> > A A object (NEO), much like the asteroids that space agencies keep
> > an eye
> > A A on just in case a large one is going to hit the Earth.
> > A A One thing that marks NEOs is that they don't have very long
> > careers.
> > A A They're interplanetary jaywalkers with all the hazards that
> > implies.
> > A A Planets and asteroids in circular orbits stay out of each
> > other's way
> > A A and are relatively stable, but NEOs, and the Roadster, are in
> > eccentric
> > A A orbits that cross the orbits of the planets. This makes their
> > A A trajectories very unstable.
> > A A The second stage will cross the orbits of Earth and Mars and
> > its
> > A A trajectory will certainly be perturbed by Jupiter's
> > gravitational
> > A A field, so there is a small chance that it might strike Earth
or
> > Mars
> > A A many thousands of years from now, though it's so small that it
> > will
> > A A burn up in the atmosphere. Another possibility is that it
might
> > get
> > A A flung out past Jupiter or inward past Venus. It might even be
> > propelled
> > A A into the Sun, as happens to many near-Earth asteroids after a
> > few tens
> > A A of millions of years. The orbital mechanics are very complex,
> > so it's
> > A A difficult to predict, but the upshot is that the Roadster
won't
> > be
> > A A roaming the Solar System for as long as its neighbors.
> > A A Another problem is that with the Roadster so close to the
plane
> > of the
> > A A ecliptic, it's in danger of being struck by cosmic debris.
> > There is a
> > A A very small chance that it might be hit by a large object like
> > an
> > A A asteroid, but the greater threat is from micrometeoroids,
which
> > over
> > A A the millennia will hit the car time and again. Each of these
> > will cause
> > A A small and not-so-small amounts of damage, until it could one
> > day look
> > A A like it's been shot at by a cannon filled with sand and
gravel.
> > A A But the much greater problem is that the Roadster isn't a
> > purpose-built
> > A A spacecraft. It's a production electric car, which means it's
as
> > A A suitable for surviving the environment of space as a chocolate
> > Easter
> > A A bunny in a convection oven.
> > A A [8]The Roadster passing the terminator
> > A A We're used to stories of interplanetary spacecraft functioning
> > long
> > A A past the predicted end of their service life. Mars rovers
> > expected to
> > A A operate for 90 days are still rolling after many years, and
the
> > Voyager
> > A A probes are still working 40 years after their launch. Even the
> > defunct
> > A A machines, like the [9]Kepler Space Telescope, can be expected
> > to be
> > A A around for many millions of years in a relatively intact
> > condition. Why
> > A A not the roadster, then?
> > A A The answer is very simple. Space engineers have spent decades
> > studying
> > A A how to build spacecraft and especially which materials to
build
> > them
> > A A out of. They know which ones can withstand the extreme heat
and
> > cold of
> > A A space, the hard ultraviolet (UV) radiation, as well as the
> > X-rays,
> > A A gamma rays, and cosmic rays that are constantly bombarding our
> > A A technology outside the protection of Earth's atmosphere and
Van
> > Allen
> > A A belts.
> > A A The Tesla Roadster, on the other hand, was designed to drive
on
> > A A Earthside roads, not galavant between the Earth and Mars. It
> > was made
> > A A to be light and fast, and have good road handling. That may be
> > fine on
> > A A the twisting roads of Italy, but the engineering that went
into
> > the
> > A A Roadster is now a positive detriment in space.
> > A A The biggest problem is that the Roadster, and Starman, and
made
> > up
> > A A largely of rubber, plastics, and carbon composites, which
> > consist of
> > A A long chain organic molecules that include epoxy resins,
> > polypropylene,
> > A A polystyrene, polyvinyl chloride, nylon, and many others. These
> > make up
> > A A the carbon composite car body, the fabrics in the interior,
the
> > A A cushions in the seats, electrical insulation, and a myriad of
> > A A fasteners, fairings, and adhesive compounds. Starman and his
> > suit are
> > A A made almost entirely out of organic polymers and even the
> > safety glass
> > A A in the car's windscreen is a plastic laminate.
> > A A IFRAME:
> > A A [10][2]
> https://tpc.googlesyndication.com/safeframe/1-0-15/html/
> > container.h
> > A A tml
> > A A All of these, at this very moment, are being subjected to
> > dangerously
> > A A high temperature variations as the sunlit areas heat to 260-o
F
> > (127-o
> > A A C) and the shaded areas plunging to -280-o F (-173-o C).
> > Fortunately,
> > A A the second stage is slowly rotating, so the car is being
evenly
> > baked
> > A A like a rotisserie chicken, but as the vehicle orbits toward
and
> > away
> > A A from the Sun, it will produce strong thermal stresses that
will
> > produce
> > A A all manner of material fatigue. Also, the rotation means that
> > anything
> > A A that comes loose can fly away.
> > A A But the worst is all that radiation hitting those long polymer
> > chain
> > A A molecules. As the rays strike, they will break down the
> > molecules bit
> > A A by bit, converting them into free radicals. The same goes for
> > the
> > A A pigments used to give the Roadster its red color. Eventually,
> > the car
> > A A will become bleached, then everything made of polymers will
> > A A disintegrate and crumble into dust.
> > A A It's all happened before and it doesn't take very long. If you
> > look at
> > A A pictures of the old Apollo moon missions of the late 1960s and
> > early
> > A A 70s, you'll be familiar with the images of spacesuited
American
> > A A astronauts saluting the [11]flag and the Lunar Module wrapped
> > in gold
> > A A Mylar foil to keep it cool under the harsh lunar sun. If you
> > were to go
> > A A back to those landing sites, you'd find the flag poles empty
> > and the
> > A A descent stage of the module largely unclad because half a
> > century of
> > A A radiation has done its work.
> > A A So what will the Tesla Roadster look like in a couple of
> > centuries? The
> > A A most obvious thing will be that the carbon composite body will
> > be gone
> > A A as the epoxy resins have all broken down and the carbon fibers
> > fallen
> > A A apart. The rubber tires on the wheels won't be there either.
> > A A Many other bits will have come loose as the adhesives turned
> > brittle
> > A A and ceased to stick. Even the windscreen will have a yellowy
> > opaque
> > A A look, provided the laminate hasn't failed completely or a
> > meteoroid
> > A A hasn't slammed into it. In the cockpit, Starman is now reduced
> > to a few
> > A A metal joints. The seats are bare metal frames with the fabric
> > covers
> > A A now powder, and the foam rubber cushions long gone.
> > A A Other materials in the car will also suffer over time. Any
> > lubricants
> > A A will have frozen or boiled away. Those that remain will
degrade
> > like
> > A A the plastics, turning into a brittle mess. If any graphite was
> > used for
> > A A lubricant, the water molecules that make graphite powder
> > slippery will
> > A A evaporate and the carbon molecules left behind will now have
> > the
> > A A property of jeweler's polish.
> > A A It's very likely that the 6,831 lithium-ion cells that powered
> > the
> > A A Roadster will have been removed before leaving Earth. The FAA
> > probably
> > A A wouldn't have been too happy about 700 lb (317 kg) of
> > fire-prone
> > A A batteries sitting atop the Falcon Heavy, turning into a very
> > large
> > A A bomb. However, there was a battery aboard to run the cameras
> > that
> > A A beamed back video to Earth. That battery may, depending on its
> > design,
> > A A start to generate gas and may one day explode. Meanwhile, the
> > A A electronics used to transmit video will very soon be fried by
> > the
> > A A radiation as the delicate micro circuits are destroyed bit by
> > bit.
> > A A Even the metals in the car will be affected. The roadster uses
> > advanced
> > A A alloys - some of which might start to outgas. Radiation will
> > eventually
> > A A affect the crystalline structure of the alloys and may give
> > them a
> > A A patina, such as is sometimes found on metallic objects in very
> > dry
> > A A deserts. Over millions of years, some may become brittle. Some
> > may
> > A A develop something similar to tin pest, where tin alters its
> > structure
> > A A at very low temperatures and appears to rot.
> > A A In the end, if some distant future expedition does retrieve
the
> > A A Roadster, it will be in a sorry state - a battered, bare metal
> > frame
> > A A with a few pockets of organic chemical dust. But maybe that
> > won't be so
> > A A bad. Maybe it will give it the right air of romance, like the
> > Parthenon
> > A A or Stonehenge. Or maybe it will be regarded as a challenge by
> > the
> > A A finders, who may embark on the greatest car restoration
project
> > in
> > A A history.
> > A A Let's hope they get the paint job right.
> > A A Larry (too used for me) - Cleveland
> > References
> > A A Visible links
> > A A 1. [3]https://newatlas.com/falcon-heavy-launch/53258/
> > A A 2. [4]https://newatlas.com/voyager-40th-anniversary-
> > retrospective-gallery/50744/
> > A A 3. [5]
> https://newatlas.com/new-horizons-pluto-flyby-nasa/34777/
> > A A 4. [6]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LAGEOS
> > A A 5. [7]https://mobile.twitter.com/planet4589/status/
> > 961394843648954368
> > A A 6. [8]https://newatlas.com/spacex-
> > images-starman-asteroid/53301/
> > A A 7. [9]http://www.science20.com/robert_walker/will_elon_musks_
> > cherry_red_tesla_roadster_orbit_for_a_billion_years_
> > falcon_heavy_test_launch-230358
> > A A 8. javascript:void(0)
> > A A 9. [10]https://newatlas.com/kepler-
> > recovery-emergency-mode/42756/
> > A 10. [11]https://tpc.googlesyndication.com/safeframe/1-0-15/html/
> > container.html
> > A 11. [12]https://newatlas.com/apollo-moon-flags-standing/23523/
> > A A Hidden links:
> > A 13. javascript:void(0)
> > A 14. javascript:void(0)
> > A 15. javascript:void(0)
> > A 16. javascript:void(0)
> > _______________________________________________
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> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > [13]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
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> > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
> > any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
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> > archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
> >
> > References
> >
> > 1. mailto:Larry at ohiotimecorp.com
> > 2.
> https://tpc.googlesyndication.com/safeframe/1-0-15/html/container.h
> > 3. https://newatlas.com/falcon-heavy-launch/53258/
> > 4.
> >
> https://newatlas.com/voyager-40th-anniversary-retrospective-gallery/50744/
> > 5. https://newatlas.com/new-horizons-pluto-flyby-nasa/34777/
> > 6. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LAGEOS
> > 7. https://mobile.twitter.com/planet4589/status/961394843648954368
> > 8. https://newatlas.com/spacex-images-starman-asteroid/53301/
> > 9.
> >
>
>
http://www.science20.com/robert_walker/will_elon_musks_cherry_red_tesla_road
> ster_orbit_for_a_billion_years_falcon_heavy_test_launch-230358
>
<http://www.science20.com/robert_walker/will_elon_musks_cherry_red_tesla_roa
dster_orbit_for_a_billion_years_falcon_heavy_test_launch-230358>
> > 10. https://newatlas.com/kepler-recovery-emergency-mode/42756/
> > 11.
> > https://tpc.googlesyndication.com/safeframe/1-0-15/html/container.html
> > 12. https://newatlas.com/apollo-moon-flags-standing/23523/
> > 13. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 14. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > _______________________________________________
> >
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> > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
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