[DeTomaso] NPC: Tesla in space

cengles at cox.net cengles at cox.net
Tue Feb 13 10:15:51 EST 2018


Dear Larry,


           Please do use the weak excuse that your Pantera-in-pieces is 
as astronomically fast as Paul's complete Pantera to postpone the 
*re-assembly* of your Pantera.  Everyone knows that the street is what 
matters and not the solar system.......!

                      Warmest regards, Chuck Engles


On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 7:45 AM, Larry-Ohio Time Corp wrote:

> So Paul are you saying my car,that is sitting in boxes, is as fast as 
> your
> car?
>
> Larry (not) - Cleveland
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On 
> Behalf
> Of Paul Timko
> Sent: February 12, 2018 10:59 PM
> To: Email List Address For Posting
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: Tesla in space
>
> The Tesla is orbiting the sun every 1.6 years.  My Pantera is orbiting 
> the
> sun once every year!  Which one is faster?
>
> Paul #9270
>
> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 6:10 PM Jeff Detrich <jjdetrich at gmail.com> 
> wrote:
>
>>    "Billions of years from now, when our Sun has
>>    A  A turned into a red giant and engulfed the Earth in nuclear 
>> fire,
>>    the
>>    A  A Pioneer, [2]Voyager, and [3]New Horizons probes will still be
>>    traveling
>>    A  A through our galaxy like a quintet of robotic Odysseus's."
>>    I believe VGER will return us and will collect the Tesla on its 
>> way
>>    back to save us
>>    A from the Sun.
>>    Live long and prosper.
>>    Jeff
>>    6559
>>
>>    On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 1:13 PM, Larry-Ohio Time Corp
>>    <[1]Larry at ohiotimecorp.com> wrote:
>>
>>      A  A If the SpaceX [1]Falcon Heavy is the world's most powerful
>>      rocket, then
>>      A  A the Tesla Roadster that it shot into interplanetary space 
>> holds
>>      the
>>      A  A record for the fastest car in history. This cosmic 
>> convertible
>>      will
>>      A  A orbit around the Sun once every 1.6 years, but how long 
>> will it
>>      A  A continue to do so, and what will be its fate? Will it still
>>      look as
>>      A  A pristine a billion years from now as it did in the videos
>>      beamed back
>>      A  A to Earth? Probably not.
>>      A  A At the moment, there are five US spacecraft speeding out of 
>> our
>>      Solar
>>      A  A System, never to return. Billions of years from now, when 
>> our
>>      Sun has
>>      A  A turned into a red giant and engulfed the Earth in nuclear 
>> fire,
>>      the
>>      A  A Pioneer, [2]Voyager, and [3]New Horizons probes will still 
>> be
>>      traveling
>>      A  A through our galaxy like a quintet of robotic Odysseus's.
>>      A  A Even back in our system and revolving about our Earth are
>>      satellites
>>      A  A that will still be around for many millions of years. For
>>      example, one
>>      A  A Earth-orbiting satellite, [4]LAGEOS-1, is a passive laser
>>      reflector
>>      A  A satellite that will not only remain circling our planet for 
>> 8.4
>>      million
>>      A  A years, but will remain functional for most of that time.
>>      A  A With a track record like that, it looks as if the Tesla
>>      Roadster that
>>      A  A rocketed into space on February 6, 2018 will be cruising
>>      happily among
>>      A  A the stars as a permanent monument to the early days of
>>      commercial deep
>>      A  A space travel. It's a nice thought that the Starman 
>> mannequin
>>      driver and
>>      A  A his cherry red ride will still be around long after the
>>      pyramids have
>>      A  A crumbled to sand.
>>      A  A Except that's not going to happen. In fact, the Starman and 
>> the
>>      A  A Roadster are in for a very unpleasant time and may not be 
>> in
>>      very good
>>      A  A shape after a few years. And their lifespan, while huge by
>>      human
>>      A  A standards, may be rather limited.
>>      A  A At the moment, the Falcon Heavy second stage and the 
>> Roadster
>>      attached
>>      A  A to it are in an orbit that [5]Jonathan McDowell of the
>>      A  A Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics has 
>> recalculated
>>      from Elon
>>      A  A Musk's rather generous [6]rough estimate of a few hours 
>> after
>>      liftoff.
>>      A  A According to McDowell, the second stage is a Hohmann 
>> transfer
>>      orbit,
>>      A  A which is most economical orbit in terms of energy for going
>>      from one
>>      A  A place to another.
>>      A  A Where Musk estimated that the second stage was circling the 
>> Sun
>>      at a
>>      A  A distance between 91 million mi (150 million km) and 240 
>> million
>>      mi (390
>>      A  A million km) with an inclination of 29-o to the ecliptic,
>>      McDowell
>>      A  A calculates that its orbit is between 92 million mi (148 
>> million
>>      km) and
>>      A  A 158 million mi (255 million km) with an inclination of 
>> 1.1-o
>>      and a
>>      A  A period of about 1.6 years. This puts its farthest distance 
>> from
>>      the sun
>>      A  A just beyond the orbit of Mars.
>>      A  A The popular idea is that the Roadster will orbit the Sun 
>> for
>>      hundreds
>>      A  A of millions, if not billions of years, but that isn't the 
>> case.
>>      The
>>      A  A second stage and Roadster are now essentially a 
>> [7]near-Earth
>>      A  A object (NEO), much like the asteroids that space agencies 
>> keep
>>      an eye
>>      A  A on just in case a large one is going to hit the Earth.
>>      A  A One thing that marks NEOs is that they don't have very long
>>      careers.
>>      A  A They're interplanetary jaywalkers with all the hazards that
>>      implies.
>>      A  A Planets and asteroids in circular orbits stay out of each
>>      other's way
>>      A  A and are relatively stable, but NEOs, and the Roadster, are 
>> in
>>      eccentric
>>      A  A orbits that cross the orbits of the planets. This makes 
>> their
>>      A  A trajectories very unstable.
>>      A  A The second stage will cross the orbits of Earth and Mars 
>> and
>>      its
>>      A  A trajectory will certainly be perturbed by Jupiter's
>>      gravitational
>>      A  A field, so there is a small chance that it might strike 
>> Earth or
>>      Mars
>>      A  A many thousands of years from now, though it's so small that 
>> it
>>      will
>>      A  A burn up in the atmosphere. Another possibility is that it 
>> might
>>      get
>>      A  A flung out past Jupiter or inward past Venus. It might even 
>> be
>>      propelled
>>      A  A into the Sun, as happens to many near-Earth asteroids after 
>> a
>>      few tens
>>      A  A of millions of years. The orbital mechanics are very 
>> complex,
>>      so it's
>>      A  A difficult to predict, but the upshot is that the Roadster 
>> won't
>>      be
>>      A  A roaming the Solar System for as long as its neighbors.
>>      A  A Another problem is that with the Roadster so close to the 
>> plane
>>      of the
>>      A  A ecliptic, it's in danger of being struck by cosmic debris.
>>      There is a
>>      A  A very small chance that it might be hit by a large object 
>> like
>>      an
>>      A  A asteroid, but the greater threat is from micrometeoroids, 
>> which
>>      over
>>      A  A the millennia will hit the car time and again. Each of 
>> these
>>      will cause
>>      A  A small and not-so-small amounts of damage, until it could 
>> one
>>      day look
>>      A  A like it's been shot at by a cannon filled with sand and 
>> gravel.
>>      A  A But the much greater problem is that the Roadster isn't a
>>      purpose-built
>>      A  A spacecraft. It's a production electric car, which means 
>> it's as
>>      A  A suitable for surviving the environment of space as a 
>> chocolate
>>      Easter
>>      A  A bunny in a convection oven.
>>      A  A [8]The Roadster passing the terminator
>>      A  A We're used to stories of interplanetary spacecraft 
>> functioning
>>      long
>>      A  A past the predicted end of their service life. Mars rovers
>>      expected to
>>      A  A operate for 90 days are still rolling after many years, and 
>> the
>>      Voyager
>>      A  A probes are still working 40 years after their launch. Even 
>> the
>>      defunct
>>      A  A machines, like the [9]Kepler Space Telescope, can be 
>> expected
>>      to be
>>      A  A around for many millions of years in a relatively intact
>>      condition. Why
>>      A  A not the roadster, then?
>>      A  A The answer is very simple. Space engineers have spent 
>> decades
>>      studying
>>      A  A how to build spacecraft and especially which materials to 
>> build
>>      them
>>      A  A out of. They know which ones can withstand the extreme heat 
>> and
>>      cold of
>>      A  A space, the hard ultraviolet (UV) radiation, as well as the
>>      X-rays,
>>      A  A gamma rays, and cosmic rays that are constantly bombarding 
>> our
>>      A  A technology outside the protection of Earth's atmosphere and 
>> Van
>>      Allen
>>      A  A belts.
>>      A  A The Tesla Roadster, on the other hand, was designed to 
>> drive on
>>      A  A Earthside roads, not galavant between the Earth and Mars. 
>> It
>>      was made
>>      A  A to be light and fast, and have good road handling. That may 
>> be
>>      fine on
>>      A  A the twisting roads of Italy, but the engineering that went 
>> into
>>      the
>>      A  A Roadster is now a positive detriment in space.
>>      A  A The biggest problem is that the Roadster, and Starman, and 
>> made
>>      up
>>      A  A largely of rubber, plastics, and carbon composites, which
>>      consist of
>>      A  A long chain organic molecules that include epoxy resins,
>>      polypropylene,
>>      A  A polystyrene, polyvinyl chloride, nylon, and many others. 
>> These
>>      make up
>>      A  A the carbon composite car body, the fabrics in the interior, 
>> the
>>      A  A cushions in the seats, electrical insulation, and a myriad 
>> of
>>      A  A fasteners, fairings, and adhesive compounds. Starman and 
>> his
>>      suit are
>>      A  A made almost entirely out of organic polymers and even the
>>      safety glass
>>      A  A in the car's windscreen is a plastic laminate.
>>      A  A IFRAME:
>>      A  A 
>> [10][2]https://tpc.googlesyndication.com/safeframe/1-0-15/html/
>>      container.h
>>      A  A tml
>>      A  A All of these, at this very moment, are being subjected to
>>      dangerously
>>      A  A high temperature variations as the sunlit areas heat to 
>> 260-o F
>>      (127-o
>>      A  A C) and the shaded areas plunging to -280-o F (-173-o C).
>>      Fortunately,
>>      A  A the second stage is slowly rotating, so the car is being 
>> evenly
>>      baked
>>      A  A like a rotisserie chicken, but as the vehicle orbits toward 
>> and
>>      away
>>      A  A from the Sun, it will produce strong thermal stresses that 
>> will
>>      produce
>>      A  A all manner of material fatigue. Also, the rotation means 
>> that
>>      anything
>>      A  A that comes loose can fly away.
>>      A  A But the worst is all that radiation hitting those long 
>> polymer
>>      chain
>>      A  A molecules. As the rays strike, they will break down the
>>      molecules bit
>>      A  A by bit, converting them into free radicals. The same goes 
>> for
>>      the
>>      A  A pigments used to give the Roadster its red color. 
>> Eventually,
>>      the car
>>      A  A will become bleached, then everything made of polymers will
>>      A  A disintegrate and crumble into dust.
>>      A  A It's all happened before and it doesn't take very long. If 
>> you
>>      look at
>>      A  A pictures of the old Apollo moon missions of the late 1960s 
>> and
>>      early
>>      A  A 70s, you'll be familiar with the images of spacesuited 
>> American
>>      A  A astronauts saluting the [11]flag and the Lunar Module 
>> wrapped
>>      in gold
>>      A  A Mylar foil to keep it cool under the harsh lunar sun. If 
>> you
>>      were to go
>>      A  A back to those landing sites, you'd find the flag poles 
>> empty
>>      and the
>>      A  A descent stage of the module largely unclad because half a
>>      century of
>>      A  A radiation has done its work.
>>      A  A So what will the Tesla Roadster look like in a couple of
>>      centuries? The
>>      A  A most obvious thing will be that the carbon composite body 
>> will
>>      be gone
>>      A  A as the epoxy resins have all broken down and the carbon 
>> fibers
>>      fallen
>>      A  A apart. The rubber tires on the wheels won't be there 
>> either.
>>      A  A Many other bits will have come loose as the adhesives 
>> turned
>>      brittle
>>      A  A and ceased to stick. Even the windscreen will have a 
>> yellowy
>>      opaque
>>      A  A look, provided the laminate hasn't failed completely or a
>>      meteoroid
>>      A  A hasn't slammed into it. In the cockpit, Starman is now 
>> reduced
>>      to a few
>>      A  A metal joints. The seats are bare metal frames with the 
>> fabric
>>      covers
>>      A  A now powder, and the foam rubber cushions long gone.
>>      A  A Other materials in the car will also suffer over time. Any
>>      lubricants
>>      A  A will have frozen or boiled away. Those that remain will 
>> degrade
>>      like
>>      A  A the plastics, turning into a brittle mess. If any graphite 
>> was
>>      used for
>>      A  A lubricant, the water molecules that make graphite powder
>>      slippery will
>>      A  A evaporate and the carbon molecules left behind will now 
>> have
>>      the
>>      A  A property of jeweler's polish.
>>      A  A It's very likely that the 6,831 lithium-ion cells that 
>> powered
>>      the
>>      A  A Roadster will have been removed before leaving Earth. The 
>> FAA
>>      probably
>>      A  A wouldn't have been too happy about 700 lb (317 kg) of
>>      fire-prone
>>      A  A batteries sitting atop the Falcon Heavy, turning into a 
>> very
>>      large
>>      A  A bomb. However, there was a battery aboard to run the 
>> cameras
>>      that
>>      A  A beamed back video to Earth. That battery may, depending on 
>> its
>>      design,
>>      A  A start to generate gas and may one day explode. Meanwhile, 
>> the
>>      A  A electronics used to transmit video will very soon be fried 
>> by
>>      the
>>      A  A radiation as the delicate micro circuits are destroyed bit 
>> by
>>      bit.
>>      A  A Even the metals in the car will be affected. The roadster 
>> uses
>>      advanced
>>      A  A alloys - some of which might start to outgas. Radiation 
>> will
>>      eventually
>>      A  A affect the crystalline structure of the alloys and may give
>>      them a
>>      A  A patina, such as is sometimes found on metallic objects in 
>> very
>>      dry
>>      A  A deserts. Over millions of years, some may become brittle. 
>> Some
>>      may
>>      A  A develop something similar to tin pest, where tin alters its
>>      structure
>>      A  A at very low temperatures and appears to rot.
>>      A  A In the end, if some distant future expedition does retrieve 
>> the
>>      A  A Roadster, it will be in a sorry state - a battered, bare 
>> metal
>>      frame
>>      A  A with a few pockets of organic chemical dust. But maybe that
>>      won't be so
>>      A  A bad. Maybe it will give it the right air of romance, like 
>> the
>>      Parthenon
>>      A  A or Stonehenge. Or maybe it will be regarded as a challenge 
>> by
>>      the
>>      A  A finders, who may embark on the greatest car restoration 
>> project
>>      in
>>      A  A history.
>>      A  A Let's hope they get the paint job right.
>>      A  A  Larry (too used for me) - Cleveland
>>      References
>>      A  A Visible links
>>      A  A 1. [3]https://newatlas.com/falcon-heavy-launch/53258/
>>      A  A 2. [4]https://newatlas.com/voyager-40th-anniversary-
>>      retrospective-gallery/50744/
>>      A  A 3. 
>> [5]https://newatlas.com/new-horizons-pluto-flyby-nasa/34777/
>>      A  A 4. [6]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LAGEOS
>>      A  A 5. [7]https://mobile.twitter.com/planet4589/status/
>>      961394843648954368
>>      A  A 6. [8]https://newatlas.com/spacex-
>>      images-starman-asteroid/53301/
>>      A  A 7. 
>> [9]http://www.science20.com/robert_walker/will_elon_musks_
>>      cherry_red_tesla_roadster_orbit_for_a_billion_years_
>>      falcon_heavy_test_launch-230358
>>      A  A 8. javascript:void(0)
>>      A  A 9. [10]https://newatlas.com/kepler-
>>      recovery-emergency-mode/42756/
>>      A  10. 
>> [11]https://tpc.googlesyndication.com/safeframe/1-0-15/html/
>>      container.html
>>      A  11. 
>> [12]https://newatlas.com/apollo-moon-flags-standing/23523/
>>      A  A Hidden links:
>>      A  13. javascript:void(0)
>>      A  14. javascript:void(0)
>>      A  15. javascript:void(0)
>>      A  16. javascript:void(0)
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>> References
>>
>>    1. mailto:Larry at ohiotimecorp.com
>>    2. 
>> https://tpc.googlesyndication.com/safeframe/1-0-15/html/container.h
>>    3. https://newatlas.com/falcon-heavy-launch/53258/
>>    4.
>> 
>> https://newatlas.com/voyager-40th-anniversary-retrospective-gallery/50744/
>>    5. https://newatlas.com/new-horizons-pluto-flyby-nasa/34777/
>>    6. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LAGEOS
>>    7. https://mobile.twitter.com/planet4589/status/961394843648954368
>>    8. https://newatlas.com/spacex-images-starman-asteroid/53301/
>>    9.
>>
> 
> http://www.science20.com/robert_walker/will_elon_musks_cherry_red_tesla_road
> ster_orbit_for_a_billion_years_falcon_heavy_test_launch-230358
>>   10. https://newatlas.com/kepler-recovery-emergency-mode/42756/
>>   11.
>> 
>> https://tpc.googlesyndication.com/safeframe/1-0-15/html/container.html
>>   12. https://newatlas.com/apollo-moon-flags-standing/23523/
>>   13. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>   14. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> _______________________________________________
>>
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