[DeTomaso] Detomaso SOHC heads?

[MikeLDrew at aol.com]

In a message dated 4/18/17 23 57 10, daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com writes:


 Anyone know the story on this engine (see attached photo)?

>>>Sorry I didn't get to this sooner, but 'yes'!

 >Detomaso   belt driven SOHC heads on a 351C block with dual plane intake  
 manifold.   Heads and belt drive arrangement are very similar to the
   Ford 289 SOHC experimental engine but the intake (a raw casting) and
   the valve covers are unique.   Were these heads developed independently 
or in conjunction with Ford?

I know Detomaso had Weslake produce some   pushrod heads that were very 
similar to the Gurney Weslake 2 valve   pushrod heads.A   Were the SOHC heads 
developed for the Detomaso Sports   5000 (a.k.a. P70) or some other racer?

>>>Here's the story, as told to me by Don Coleman, who was an executive for 
Ford in the 1960s/1970s.   He was the head of the smallblock V-8 program 
(289/302) during the Gulf GT40 years, and through his friendship with Claude 
Dubois, he was the fellow that arranged the sale of those engines to De 
Tomaso for the Mangusta.   When the Pantera program started ramping up, in 1970, 
due to his pre-existing relationship with De Tomaso, Ford sent him to Modena 
to be the sole American coordinating the project with De Tomaso.

The Pantera was designed to use the standard 351C, but De Tomaso loved 
trick, exotic things, and he took it upon himself to have his engineers (with 
ZERO Ford input) design and construct several examples of an aluminum head 
SOHC conversion for the stock 351C bottom end.   While attention was primarily 
focused on the Pantera, in 1970 De Tomaso had also (on his own, with only 
minimal encouragement from Lee Iacocca) conjured up the Deauville, and if you 
look at the original cutaway drawing of the Deauville (see link below), you 
will see that it is equipped with this SOHC engine.


https://images.honestjohn.co.uk/imagecache/file/fit/730x700/media/7619551/De
%20Tomaso%20Deauville%20(3).jpg

The original configuration called for it to have four, two-barrel Weber 
carburetors, but instead of being arranged in the fashion we're most accustomed 
to seeing on Ford V8s like the GT40, and later Pantera race cars, these 
carbs were arranged in-line, like a Ferrari V-12, or Maserati 
Quattroporte/Kyalami/Bora.   (In fact, the whole carburetor/air cleaner arrangement was 
virtually identical to the Maseratis, but of course the intake manifold was 
different).

De Tomaso spent a fortune developing this engine, and proudly walked into 
Don's office one day and announced it was complete.   They saw it run on a 
dyno, and while it worked, and it produced more power than a stock 351C, the 
numbers weren't all that much better, and a stock 351C could easily surpass 
it by simply fitting a hotter camshaft.   The cost to produce the SOHC-head 
version would triple the cost of the engine, for only a marginal gain, so Don 
said “thanks but no thanks” and the Pantera got the standard Mustang 
engine instead.

De Tomaso was disappointed that his Pantera would be stuck with such a 
plebian motor; he felt that the SOHC conversion would elevate the status of the 
whole car, and thought that Don and Ford were stupid to ignore his idea.   
That was one of many conflicts he had with Don, which finally resulted in Don 
getting fired from the Pantera project about a year after arriving in 
Modena, and transferred back to Detroit.

(Don, BTW, is a resident of Carmel Valley and presumably will be in 
attendance at the upcoming Fun Rally; he was the guest speaker at the Las Vegas 
POCA Fun Rally about 10-15 years ago).

The last time I visited De Tomaso in Modena, I happened to pass one of the 
prototype SOHC engines, but only shot one crappy photo (attached).   What is 
difficult to make out in this photo is that the valve covers were cut away 
and fitted with clear windows, so that the engineers could see what was 
happening inside the engine while it was running on the test stand.

Note also that this engine has a single four-barrel intake manifold as 
opposed to the quad-Weber intake.   That Weber intake may have existed in 
drawing form only.   While I didn't look closely at the four-barrel intake, the 
impression I got was that the 'hard points' on the cylinder heads matched 
those of the standard 351C heads, so that a conventional 351C intake would bolt 
up to the engine.   So if that's true, the intake is probably an 
over-the-counter Ford aluminum 351C intake (Dan would know for sure, I would assume).

BTW, the photo that Dan shared is of a different engine, which Wilkinson 
bought from De Tomaso some years ago.   It's sitting on a stand in his shop; I 
just saw it there a couple of weeks ago, and meant to take photos of it, 
but I forgot!

Mike
-------------- next part --------------
   In a message dated 4/18/17 23 57 10, daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com writes:
   Anyone know the story on this engine (see attached photo)?
   >>>Sorry I didn't get to this sooner, but 'yes'!
   >Detomaso  belt driven SOHC heads on a 351C block with dual plane
   intake  manifold.  Heads and belt drive arrangement are very similar to
   the
     Ford 289 SOHC experimental engine but the intake (a raw casting) and
     the valve covers are unique.  Were these heads developed
   independently or in conjunction with Ford?
   I know Detomaso had Weslake produce some  pushrod heads that were very
   similar to the Gurney Weslake 2 valve  pushrod heads.A  Were the SOHC
   heads developed for the Detomaso Sports  5000 (a.k.a. P70) or some
   other racer?
   >>>Here's the story, as told to me by Don Coleman, who was an executive
   for Ford in the 1960s/1970s.  He was the head of the smallblock V-8
   program (289/302) during the Gulf GT40 years, and through his
   friendship with Claude Dubois, he was the fellow that arranged the sale
   of those engines to De Tomaso for the Mangusta.  When the Pantera
   program started ramping up, in 1970, due to his pre-existing
   relationship with De Tomaso, Ford sent him to Modena to be the sole
   American coordinating the project with De Tomaso.
   The Pantera was designed to use the standard 351C, but De Tomaso loved
   trick, exotic things, and he took it upon himself to have his engineers
   (with ZERO Ford input) design and construct several examples of an
   aluminum head SOHC conversion for the stock 351C bottom end.  While
   attention was primarily focused on the Pantera, in 1970 De Tomaso had
   also (on his own, with only minimal encouragement from Lee Iacocca)
   conjured up the Deauville, and if you look at the original cutaway
   drawing of the Deauville (see link below), you will see that it is
   equipped with this SOHC engine.
   https://images.honestjohn.co.uk/imagecache/file/fit/730x700/media/76195
   51/De%20Tomaso%20Deauville%20(3).jpg
   The original configuration called for it to have four, two-barrel Weber
   carburetors, but instead of being arranged in the fashion we're most
   accustomed to seeing on Ford V8s like the GT40, and later Pantera race
   cars, these carbs were arranged in-line, like a Ferrari V-12, or
   Maserati Quattroporte/Kyalami/Bora.  (In fact, the whole carburetor/air
   cleaner arrangement was virtually identical to the Maseratis, but of
   course the intake manifold was different).
   De Tomaso spent a fortune developing this engine, and proudly walked
   into Don's office one day and announced it was complete.  They saw it
   run on a dyno, and while it worked, and it produced more power than a
   stock 351C, the numbers weren't all that much better, and a stock 351C
   could easily surpass it by simply fitting a hotter camshaft.  The cost
   to produce the SOHC-head version would triple the cost of the engine,
   for only a marginal gain, so Don said athanks but no thanksa and the
   Pantera got the standard Mustang engine instead.
   De Tomaso was disappointed that his Pantera would be stuck with such a
   plebian motor; he felt that the SOHC conversion would elevate the
   status of the whole car, and thought that Don and Ford were stupid to
   ignore his idea.  That was one of many conflicts he had with Don, which
   finally resulted in Don getting fired from the Pantera project about a
   year after arriving in Modena, and transferred back to Detroit.
   (Don, BTW, is a resident of Carmel Valley and presumably will be in
   attendance at the upcoming Fun Rally; he was the guest speaker at the
   Las Vegas POCA Fun Rally about 10-15 years ago).
   The last time I visited De Tomaso in Modena, I happened to pass one of
   the prototype SOHC engines, but only shot one crappy photo (attached).
   What is difficult to make out in this photo is that the valve covers
   were cut away and fitted with clear windows, so that the engineers
   could see what was happening inside the engine while it was running on
   the test stand.
   Note also that this engine has a single four-barrel intake manifold as
   opposed to the quad-Weber intake.  That Weber intake may have existed
   in drawing form only.  While I didn't look closely at the four-barrel
   intake, the impression I got was that the 'hard points' on the cylinder
   heads matched those of the standard 351C heads, so that a conventional
   351C intake would bolt up to the engine.  So if that's true, the intake
   is probably an over-the-counter Ford aluminum 351C intake (Dan would
   know for sure, I would assume).
   BTW, the photo that Dan shared is of a different engine, which
   Wilkinson bought from De Tomaso some years ago.  It's sitting on a
   stand in his shop; I just saw it there a couple of weeks ago, and meant
   to take photos of it, but I forgot!
   Mike
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: De Tomaso SOHC 2.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 653070 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://server.detomasolist.com/pipermail/detomaso/attachments/20170419/d89559ca/attachment.jpg>