[DeTomaso] Driver's side window motor - PROBLEM SOLVED!
Garth Rodericks
garth_rodericks at yahoo.com
Fri Oct 14 17:23:14 EDT 2016
First of all, thank you to everyone who responded with suggestions on what else to check. And a HUGE THANK YOU to John Buckman who spent an hour on the phone with me through my test procedures!!!
I took everyone's suggestions and made a punch list of things to check, starting with the easiest first.John walked me through my multimeter settings/readings to check the resistance across the window motor, and they stayed with me on the phone as we continued to check everything else, ruling out the motor, switch and relays as possible culprits.
We isolated the problem to the BLACK wire between the switch and the window motor.
I pulled a new black 14ga. wire through the dash to the window motor and the window works fine again with my original switches. As soon as the threat of rain passes (because there's no room in my garage and I need to do this in my driveway), I'll do some more testing to determine where in the original wire the problem lies. I suspect it may be at the point where it passes through the door jamb into the door - it's quite possible that 44 years of the door opening and closing has work hardened and broken some of the wire strands causing insufficient current to operate the motor.
Unfortunately, while doing this I managed to flake a piece or two of the plastic chrome off my switch and now it looks terrible in my opinion. Which means I need to replace all the switches so I can install my new Bosche window switches, that way they all look new!
Anyway, next week I'll tackle the heater/AC blower fan motor issue.
Again, THANKS EVERYONE for your help!
Cheers!Garth
From: Garth Rodericks <garth_rodericks at yahoo.com>
To: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>; "Himes, Terry (397C)" <terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov>
Cc: Forest Goodhart <forestg at att.net>; DeTomaso Mail List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>; Phone Richard Bosch <theemonkey at yahoo.com>; John Buckman <jb841 at cox.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 2:49 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Driver's side window motor
Yes, my switches are the stock original window switches.
From: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
To: "Himes, Terry (397C)" <terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov>
Cc: Forest Goodhart <forestg at att.net>; DeTomaso Mail List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>; Phone Richard Bosch <theemonkey at yahoo.com>; John Buckman <jb841 at cox.net>; Garth Rodericks <garth_rodericks at yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 1:49 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Driver's side window motor
Either that or they were replaced by a previous owner. Do you KNOW they are stock?
Somewhere on my hard drive I have a good photo comparing the two side by side. The differences are subtle. The stock switches have sharp pointed features while the Bosch switches are more rounded....
Mike
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 12, 2016, at 12:38, "Himes, Terry (397C)" <terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
> Ah. All mine are stock. And working.... <knock on wood> ;-)
>
> "A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan,
>
> stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!"
>
> Terry W. Himes
>
> JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
>
> Dawn Spacecraft Team
>
> Rosetta Sequence Team Lead
>
> Phone: (818) 393-6261
>
> Cell: (818) 653-8213
>
> Fax: (818) 393-3147
>
> [1]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
>
> From: DeTomaso <[2]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf
> of Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Reply-To: Mike Drew <[4]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> Date: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 11:03 AM
> To: Forest Goodhart <[5]forestg at att.net>
> Cc: DeTomaso Mail List <[6]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>, Phone
> Richard Bosch <[7]theemonkey at yahoo.com>, John Buckman
> <[8]jb841 at cox.net>, Garth Rodericks <[9]garth_rodericks at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Driver's side window motor
>
> Garth,
> Do you still have the stock switches? Few stock switches are still
> working anymore--they have a finite lifespan. The stock replacements
> from Wilkinson are notorious for poor quality (I've held one that was
> broken in the package!). For years people have used Bosch replacements
> which look almost identical to stock. In fact so many cars have them
> that many people don't even realize they aren't stock!
> So, what kind do you have?
> Mike
> Sent from my iPhone
> On Oct 12, 2016, at 10:32, Forest Goodhart <[10]forestg at att.net> wrote:
>
> Garth,
>
> Do you see any movement of the ammeter when you operate the switch?
>
> Window motors do not have any relays in the circuit but they have a
>
> built in circuit breaker in the motor.
>
> Start with a jumper directly from the battery to the motor and see
> what
>
> happens. Power to one lead, ground to the other. Revers for
> operation
>
> the other direction.
>
> Forest
>
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> From: Garth Rodericks via DeTomaso
> <[11]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>
> To: DeTomaso Mail List <[12]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>
> Cc: Phone Richard Bosch <[13]theemonkey at yahoo.com>; John Buckman
>
> <[14]jb841 at cox.net>
>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 10:01 AM
>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Driver's side window motor
>
> Another electrical issue that developed on the way home from the
>
> Niello
>
> Concours last week...
>
> My driver's side window motor no longer operates. I've never
> before
>
> had a problem with the window motors. Driving home Sunday evening
> I
>
> had
>
> the window down a couple inches for some airflow in the cabin
> (since
>
> the heater/AC blower fan was not working). I closed the window
> for a
>
> few minutes then when I tried to re-open it the motor made a
>
> momentary
>
> noise like it was starting to lower the window, then
> stopped. After
>
> that, nothing! No noise or movement either up or down.
>
> I tried replacing the switch with a new Bosche switch, and no
> change.
>
> I removed the door panel and verified it's not the dreaded window
>
> gear
>
> issue - the motor is not turning at all.
>
> I've lowered the window manually with the emergency crank and
> still
>
> no
>
> movement, regardless of the window's position.
>
> I checked voltage on the different posts with my multimeter and
> found
>
> that one of the contacts was only getting about 3-4 volts when the
>
> switch was put in the down position, and the other contact got
> 11-12
>
> volts when the switch was put in the up position, but no movement
> in
>
> either direction regardless.
>
> The passenger side window works fine and the motor has the same
> 11-12
>
> volts at either post depending on the switch position - up/down.
>
> All fuses are good.
>
> Any thoughts on where to look for the problem? Or suggestions on
> how
>
> to further diagnose?
>
> I cannot see any break in the wiring or a poor connection
> somewhere.
>
> Again, could this be a relay issue? The stock wiring harness
> appears
>
> untouched in this area behind the switch console and under the
> dash.
>
> I have not yet tried running a jumper wire directly to the motor
> from
>
> the switch. I suppose that should be my next step.
>
> Again, open to any ideas. Can't really drive the car anywhere if I
>
> can't close the windows and lock it up.
>
> Cheers!
>
> Garth
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
>
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>
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>
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>
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> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>
> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
> archive
>
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>
> References
>
> 1. [17]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>
> 2. [18]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
>
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> DeTomaso mailing list
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>
> [20]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
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> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [21]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [22]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
> 2. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> 3. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 4. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
> 5. mailto:forestg at att.net
> 6. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 7. mailto:theemonkey at yahoo.com
> 8. mailto:jb841 at cox.net
> 9. mailto:garth_rodericks at yahoo.com
> 10. mailto:forestg at att.net
> 11. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 12. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 13. mailto:theemonkey at yahoo.com
> 14. mailto:jb841 at cox.net
> 15. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 16. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 17. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 18. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 19. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 20. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 21. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 22. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
-------------- next part --------------
First of all, thank you to everyone who responded with suggestions on
what else to check. And a HUGE THANK YOU to John Buckman who spent an
hour on the phone with me through my test procedures!!!
I took everyone's suggestions and made a punch list of things to check,
starting with the easiest first.
John walked me through my multimeter settings/readings to check the
resistance across the window motor, and they stayed with me on the
phone as we continued to check everything else, ruling out the motor,
switch and relays as possible culprits.
We isolated the problem to the BLACK wire between the switch and the
window motor.
I pulled a new black 14ga. wire through the dash to the window motor
and the window works fine again with my original switches. As soon as
the threat of rain passes (because there's no room in my garage and I
need to do this in my driveway), I'll do some more testing to determine
where in the original wire the problem lies. I suspect it may be at the
point where it passes through the door jamb into the door - it's quite
possible that 44 years of the door opening and closing has work
hardened and broken some of the wire strands causing insufficient
current to operate the motor.
Unfortunately, while doing this I managed to flake a piece or two of
the plastic chrome off my switch and now it looks terrible in my
opinion. Which means I need to replace all the switches so I can
install my new Bosche window switches, that way they all look new!
Anyway, next week I'll tackle the heater/AC blower fan motor issue.
Again, THANKS EVERYONE for your help!
Cheers!
Garth
__________________________________________________________________
From: Garth Rodericks <garth_rodericks at yahoo.com>
To: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>; "Himes, Terry (397C)"
<terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov>
Cc: Forest Goodhart <forestg at att.net>; DeTomaso Mail List
<detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>; Phone Richard Bosch
<theemonkey at yahoo.com>; John Buckman <jb841 at cox.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 2:49 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Driver's side window motor
Yes, my switches are the stock original window switches.
__________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
To: "Himes, Terry (397C)" <terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov>
Cc: Forest Goodhart <forestg at att.net>; DeTomaso Mail List
<detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>; Phone Richard Bosch
<theemonkey at yahoo.com>; John Buckman <jb841 at cox.net>; Garth Rodericks
<garth_rodericks at yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 1:49 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Driver's side window motor
Either that or they were replaced by a previous owner. Do you KNOW they
are stock?
Somewhere on my hard drive I have a good photo comparing the two side
by side. The differences are subtle. The stock switches have sharp
pointed features while the Bosch switches are more rounded....
Mike
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 12, 2016, at 12:38, "Himes, Terry (397C)"
<[1]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
> Ah. All mine are stock. And working.... <knock on wood> ;-)
>
> "A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan,
>
> stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!"
>
> Terry W. Himes
>
> JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
>
> Dawn Spacecraft Team
>
> Rosetta Sequence Team Lead
>
> Phone: (818) 393-6261
>
> Cell: (818) 653-8213
>
> Fax: (818) 393-3147
>
> [1][2]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
>
> From: DeTomaso <[2][3]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on
behalf
> of Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[3][4]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Reply-To: Mike Drew <[4][5]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> Date: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 11:03 AM
> To: Forest Goodhart <[5][6]forestg at att.net>
> Cc: DeTomaso Mail List <[6][7]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>,
Phone
> Richard Bosch <[7][8]theemonkey at yahoo.com>, John Buckman
> <[8][9]jb841 at cox.net>, Garth Rodericks
<[9][10]garth_rodericks at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Driver's side window motor
>
> Garth,
> Do you still have the stock switches? Few stock switches are still
> working anymore--they have a finite lifespan. The stock replacements
> from Wilkinson are notorious for poor quality (I've held one that
was
> broken in the package!). For years people have used Bosch
replacements
> which look almost identical to stock. In fact so many cars have them
> that many people don't even realize they aren't stock!
> So, what kind do you have?
> Mike
> Sent from my iPhone
> On Oct 12, 2016, at 10:32, Forest Goodhart <[10][11]forestg at att.net>
wrote:
>
> Garth,
>
> Do you see any movement of the ammeter when you operate the
switch?
>
> Window motors do not have any relays in the circuit but they
have a
>
> built in circuit breaker in the motor.
>
> Start with a jumper directly from the battery to the motor and
see
> what
>
> happens. Power to one lead, ground to the other. Revers for
> operation
>
> the other direction.
>
> Forest
>
>
__________________________________________________________________
>
> From: Garth Rodericks via DeTomaso
> <[11][12]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>
> To: DeTomaso Mail List
<[12][13]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>
> Cc: Phone Richard Bosch <[13][14]theemonkey at yahoo.com>; John
Buckman
>
> <[14][15]jb841 at cox.net>
>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 10:01 AM
>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Driver's side window motor
>
> Another electrical issue that developed on the way home from
the
>
> Niello
>
> Concours last week...
>
> My driver's side window motor no longer operates. I've never
> before
>
> had a problem with the window motors. Driving home Sunday
evening
> I
>
> had
>
> the window down a couple inches for some airflow in the cabin
> (since
>
> the heater/AC blower fan was not working). I closed the
window
> for a
>
> few minutes then when I tried to re-open it the motor made a
>
> momentary
>
> noise like it was starting to lower the window, then
> stopped. After
>
> that, nothing! No noise or movement either up or down.
>
> I tried replacing the switch with a new Bosche switch, and no
> change.
>
> I removed the door panel and verified it's not the dreaded
window
>
> gear
>
> issue - the motor is not turning at all.
>
> I've lowered the window manually with the emergency crank and
> still
>
> no
>
> movement, regardless of the window's position.
>
> I checked voltage on the different posts with my multimeter
and
> found
>
> that one of the contacts was only getting about 3-4 volts when
the
>
> switch was put in the down position, and the other contact got
> 11-12
>
> volts when the switch was put in the up position, but no
movement
> in
>
> either direction regardless.
>
> The passenger side window works fine and the motor has the
same
> 11-12
>
> volts at either post depending on the switch position -
up/down.
>
> All fuses are good.
>
> Any thoughts on where to look for the problem? Or suggestions
on
> how
>
> to further diagnose?
>
> I cannot see any break in the wiring or a poor connection
> somewhere.
>
> Again, could this be a relay issue? The stock wiring harness
> appears
>
> untouched in this area behind the switch console and under the
> dash.
>
> I have not yet tried running a jumper wire directly to the
motor
> from
>
> the switch. I suppose that should be my next step.
>
> Again, open to any ideas. Can't really drive the car anywhere
if I
>
> can't close the windows and lock it up.
>
> Cheers!
>
> Garth
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
>
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
>
> [1][15][16]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>
>
[2][16][17]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> etc.)
>
> use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
forward
> any
>
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
the
>
> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
> archive
>
> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> References
>
> 1. [17]mailto:[18]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>
> 2.
[18][19]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
>
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
>
> [19][20]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>
> [20][21]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.)
> use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
archive
> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [21][22]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [22][23]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.)
> use the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
archive
> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:[24]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
> 2. mailto:[25]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> 3. mailto:[26]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 4. mailto:[27]MikeLDrew at aol.com
> 5. mailto:[28]forestg at att.net
> 6. mailto:[29]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 7. mailto:[30]theemonkey at yahoo.com
> 8. mailto:[31]jb841 at cox.net
> 9. mailto:[32]garth_rodericks at yahoo.com
> 10. mailto:[33]forestg at att.net
> 11. mailto:[34]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 12. mailto:[35]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 13. mailto:[36]theemonkey at yahoo.com
> 14. mailto:[37]jb841 at cox.net
> 15. mailto:[38]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 16. [39]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 17. mailto:[40]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 18. [41]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 19. mailto:[42]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 20. [43]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 21. mailto:[44]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 22. [45]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [46]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [47]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
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or approve the archiving of list messages.
References
1. mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
2. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
3. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
4. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
5. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
6. mailto:forestg at att.net
7. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
8. mailto:theemonkey at yahoo.com
9. mailto:jb841 at cox.net
10. mailto:garth_rodericks at yahoo.com
11. mailto:forestg at att.net
12. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
13. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
14. mailto:theemonkey at yahoo.com
15. mailto:jb841 at cox.net
16. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
17. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
18. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
19. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
20. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
21. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
22. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
23. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
24. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
25. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
26. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
27. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
28. mailto:forestg at att.net
29. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
30. mailto:theemonkey at yahoo.com
31. mailto:jb841 at cox.net
32. mailto:garth_rodericks at yahoo.com
33. mailto:forestg at att.net
34. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
35. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
36. mailto:theemonkey at yahoo.com
37. mailto:jb841 at cox.net
38. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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40. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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46. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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