[DeTomaso] Alternator blues....
Jeff Cobb
jeffcobb1 at me.com
Fri Oct 7 22:31:49 EDT 2016
Mike,
Very obvious that the alternator pivot boss bolt to support hole i/d are an ill matched size.
Drill and steel sleeve the mounting ears and use spacers to set belt on plane with other pulleys.
Jeff
On Oct 7, 2016, at 7:51 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
> All,
>
> Check this out. I have never bothered to look at the alternator while
> the engine was running before, as it can only be seen from under the
> car.
>
> Today I put the car on the lift and had Lori start it up while I filmed
> it:
>
> [1]http://youtu.be/05CddX-lbew
>
> Look at how violently it's shaking! You can feel it throughout the
> car--the engine was smooth on the dyno but there is a vibration now.
>
> I haven't yet explored to see WHY it's shaking so much. I wonder if the
> mounting bolt that came with the kit is the wrong diameter and the
> alternator is loose even when it's tight?
>
> I can easily imagine this kind of motion being responsible for the
> problems we have been having, don't you?
>
> Mike
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 7, 2016, at 0:29, "Tomas Gunnarsson" <[2]guson at home.se> wrote:
>
> The AC Delco 10si alternator has nine internal rectifier diodes, see
> attached pics. The main six diode rectifier bridge is top middle. The
> triple diode that powers the regulator is to the left of the ball
> bearing. This triple diode is also what turns off the alternator lamp.
> If you hook up a load between lamp terminal and ground this bridge will
> provide power to the load, something it's not designed to do. The
> result will be burnt out diodes in the diode trio and a loss of power
> to the regulator which in turn leads to loss of alternator output. Like
> you I think that the problem is the regulator but the question is why
> it keeps breaking.
>
> Tomas
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> From: Guido deTomaso [[3]guido_detomaso at prodigy.net]
> Sent: 6/10/2016 6:01:07 PM
> To: [4]guson at home.se;[5]tipo874 at gmail.com
> Cc: [6]MikeLDrew at aol.com;[7]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Alternator blues....
> I'm lost ... the rectifier diodes, typically six, each transit roughly
> 1/3 of the alternators output. Collectively they transmit all the
> output power. Any loads added anywhere tax the diodes.
> OTOH, certain cars I'm aware of run many loads through the lamp
> circuit, bulb test in the example I'm familiar with, and some/many/most
> alternator voltage regulators can't handle the current. These require
> a special voltage regulator.
> Unlikely the root cause of the problem at hand ... my money is on bad
> regulator unfortunately inside the GM alternator not conveniently
> remote mounted.
> Or so it seems to me, I could be wrong.
> GD
> From: Tomas Gunnarsson <[8]guson at home.se>
> To: [9]tipo874 at gmail.com
> Cc: [10]MikeLDrew at aol.com; [11]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 11:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Alternator blues....
> If the marginal connection is between battery and ammeter it will
> fluctuate between zero and charge. If it's between alternator and
> ammeter it will fluctuate between charge and discharge. Right Thomas?
> Another thought: Have you by accident hooked anything up to the lamp
> post on the alternator (or the wire going between post and dashboard
> lamp) that's using significant power? That pin will provide power
> when
> running but the rectifier diodes inside will not be up for the task
> and
> burn out in short time. Just a thought as you've been going through
> alternators at high pace. I'd like to disconnect the lamp wire from
> the
> alternator with the engine running and see what happens. Note that
> the
> sense wire will have to stay connected if you have one.
> Tomas
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> From: Thomas Toernblom [[12]tipo874 at gmail.com]
> Sent: 3/10/2016 9:49:41 PM
> To: [13]MikeLDrew at aol.com
> Cc: [14]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Alternator blues....
> Check the fat wire from B+ (or what it is called on the alt) to the
> ammeter. If there is a marginal connection there the voltage can
> fluctuate wildly and possibly kill semiconductors in the alt.
>> 3 okt. 2016 kl. 18:00 skrev Mike Drew via DeTomaso
> <[15]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>:
>>
>> All,
>>
>> Further to my original inquiry, I failed to mention that this is a
> GM
> alternator with built-in regulator, running in the stock three-wire
> configuration. Normally it works normally--shows a somewhat strong
> charge for a short time after engine start, coming back down to
> slight
> charge when battery is 'full' again, with slight discharge at idle
> when
> fans, lights etc are on.
>>
>> When it starts acting up, initially the needle bounces erratically
> over a small range between slight charge and slight discharge. After
> a
> few minutes of that, it goes into greater discharge mode as it quits
> completely.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Oct 3, 2016, at 8:15, "Himes, Terry (397C)"
> <[16]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
>>>
>>> Ditto. I put in 2 rebuilt units and they both failed. Finally
> bought
>>> a new one.
>>> No problem since.
>>>
>>> "A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan,
>>>
>>> stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!"
>>>
>>> Terry W. Himes
>>>
>>> JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
>>>
>>> Dawn Spacecraft Team
>>>
>>> Rosetta Sequence Team Lead
>>>
>>> Phone: (818) 393-6261
>>>
>>> Cell: (818) 653-8213
>>>
>>> Fax: (818) 393-3147
>>>
>>> [1][17]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
>>>
>>> From: DeTomaso <[2][18]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com>
> on
> behalf
>>> of Julian Kift <[3][19]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
>>> Date: Monday, October 3, 2016 6:57 AM
>>> To: "[4][20]MikeLDrew at aol.com" <[5][21]MikeLDrew at aol.com>,
>>> "[6][22]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
>>> <[7][23]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Alternator blues....
>>>
>>> Mike,
>>> I hate chasing these type of electrical problems, but here's some
>>> thoughts;
>>> i) Battery going bad (how old is it?), requiring the alternator to
> have
>>> to constantly charge
>>> ii) Some alternator re builders are notorious for units failing,
> over a
>>> 50% failure rate is not uncommon. I had a similar issue with my
> GT40;
>>> on the third alternator we switched to a higher amp 'new' unit and
>>> never had a problem since.
>>> iii) It could also be an intermittent short or bad ground
>>> Julian
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: DeTomaso <[8][24]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com>
> on
> behalf
>>> of Mike Drew via DeTomaso
> <[9][25]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>>> Sent: Sunday, October 2, 2016 9:11 PM
>>> To: [10][26]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Alternator blues....
>>> Hi guys,
>>> Just got home from a terrific weekend in the Sierra foothills; 24
>>> Panteras
>>> (of the 36 scheduled) took part in the Niello concours at Serrano.
> It
>>> heaved down with rain for a very brief period, but that rain then
>>> turned to snow
>>> which kept the large Reno/Tahoe contingent from braving the
> summit.
>>> Still, a great time was had by all who attended, and we drove home
> in
>>> splendid
>>> sunshine.
>>> We were driving in Lori's Pantera, which has a flat firewall kit
> and
>>> uses a
>>> GM alternator with built-in regulator. She drove the car to Vegas
>>> this
>>> spring, and the alternator failed while we were there. At first it
>>> started
>>> acting erratic, with the amp needle bouncing around, and then
> finally
>>> it quit
>>> and just showed a partial discharge. Testing at the battery
> revealed
>>> it
>>> was doing nothing at that point. We replaced it with another one,
>>> which did
>>> exactly the same thing and failed about 50 miles from home.
>>> We replaced THAT one, and the third one has worked fine until
> today.
>>> But
>>> it probably only has about 250 miles on it or so. On the way home,
>>> once
>>> again, I noticed the ammeter needle behaving erratically, then it
> quit
>>> and
>>> showed partial discharge for many miles, then briefly came back to
> life
>>> and
>>> showed a very strong charge (since we had been running on battery
> power
>>> for
>>> awhile), then discharged again.
>>> Methinks the problem is not simply that alternators are failing,
> but
>>> rather
>>> that there is some sort of fault in the electrical system. As
>>> electrons
>>> are far from my strong suit, I hesitate to start diving it to it
>>> blindly.
>>> What say all of you?
>>> FWIW we've got a spare alternator we will be installing tomorrow,
> which
>>> almost assuredly will work just fine...for awhile anyway????
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> References
>>>
>>> 1. [27]mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
>>> 2. [28]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
>>> 3. [29]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
>>> 4. [30]mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
>>> 5. [31]mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
>>> 6. [32]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>> 7. [33]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>> 8. [34]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
>>> 9. [35]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>> 10. [36]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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> <rebuild kit.jpg>
>
> <10si schematic.bmp>
>
> References
>
> 1. http://youtu.be/05CddX-lbew
> 2. mailto:guson at home.se
> 3. mailto:guido_detomaso at prodigy.net
> 4. mailto:guson at home.se
> 5. mailto:tipo874 at gmail.com
> 6. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
> 7. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 8. mailto:guson at home.se
> 9. mailto:tipo874 at gmail.com
> 10. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
> 11. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 12. mailto:tipo874 at gmail.com
> 13. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
> 14. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 15. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 16. mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
> 17. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
> 18. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> 19. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
> 20. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
> 21. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
> 22. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 23. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 24. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> 25. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 26. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 27. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
> 28. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> 29. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
> 30. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
> 31. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
> 32. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 33. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 34. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> 35. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 36. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 37. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 38. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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> 44. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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