[DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis
marshallgsmith
marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
Sun May 29 19:05:17 EDT 2016
Now wait a minute Dick, what you write here is WAY too level-headed for this forum!
Who is this really??
All joking aside, I obtain multiple bids for every one of a 'number' of projects that I need to conduct every year. If I found a company that could save me $8,000 a year on a particular project, I would have felt like I won the lottery!
Sure, every once in a while the new company who submitted the lowest bid does not do as good of a job of the old one but when that happens, I go back to the next bid which sometimes was the same company I used previously and all is back to normal.$8,000 a year is an awful lot of money just to stay with the company that you have and had comfort with.
The statement of adding color to the newsletter would of course cost a bit more money but when you consider that we would be saving $8,000 off the top, we have a touch more money to play with and the savings would still be very sizable.
Plus, if any car club newsletter in this country is worthy of several color pages, it absolutely would be Jack DeRyke's!! This club is and will be indebted to you forever Jack! Thanks for the wonderful work you do to keep our colorful jalopies on the road!!
Marshall
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Dick Koch <redcatman74 at gmail.com>
Date: 05/29/2016 9:57 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: Ed Mendez <edducati at mac.com>
Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis
Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and non-productive
comments that have been made in recent weeks, many very personal and
vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club.
It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to
present one's point of view in a negative and personal manner, does
nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and their
persona in the eyes of others.
From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many of the
detractors do not have much experience in running a business. And make no
mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To thrive, this club
must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance it's value add to
it's customers.
As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the newsletter,
for the board to not look for less expensive options, as with any other
expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible.
I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have folks
want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive and provides
less for much more money. We have enough cronyism in our government.
Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been a reason for
keeping a more expensive service that provides less.
I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the
newsletter, that can be printed by anyone that is not to lazy to take 3
minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative.
As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person. Each
person on the board has a say, with a majority required to decide on every
issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just that, pointless.
Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of the
board to the other members of the board, showing how approving that item
would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying financial
implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long term financial
health.
Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a constructive
manner, with negative comments of a personal nature irrelevant and
therefore non-constructive.
I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to think
they are doing their job for free. What a deal...
By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their comments,
take it out on me. I deserve it for letting 6831 sit idle with a blown
header gasket for years.
Peace, fellow "cat" owners.
Dick Koch - Atlanta
Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky enough
to be on the sunny side of the grass.
On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <edducati at mac.com> wrote:
> See below.
>
> > On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige <rkunishige at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace period
> > without notice.
>
> False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning at 30
> days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club, Ferrari club,
> Porsche club, they all have similar rules.
> >
> > The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10 increased
> > rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first place. The
> > return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven. Simply, use
> > the money to pay for our publication costs.
> False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority chapter
> presidents.
>
> > PROPOSED: $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund the $62.52
> > publication estimate per MS.
>
> That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive quotes for
> printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that is $8000 per year
> cheaper than the one we are currently using.
> >
> > Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year. Carrying
> > 853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year. Divide that into 100,000
> > means funding covers 46.5 YEARS.
> False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve in the
> bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in reserve. You
> can google there income statements.
>
>
> > OPINION:
> >
> > I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4 vote but
> > there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has
> > proposed. Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing the
> > actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions for
>
> False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things we have
> coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in fact there
> very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best interest of the club
>
> This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and should
> not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look bad. If you have
> an issue talk with someone about your concern, preferably your chapter
> president, they are your representative as in any organization. It's very
> easy to simply pick up the phone instead of using this email list as a
> podium for your disdain of MS. It's obvious, we get it. Please take it
> offline.
>
> If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and many
> others before me, and run for office.
>
> Kind regards
>
> > (Information taken from the Presidents Blog.)
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >
> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
> >
> > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list.
> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve
> the archiving of list messages.
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
> the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list.
> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve
> the archiving of list messages.
>
Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and
non-productive comments that have been made in recent weeks, many very
personal and vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club.
It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to
present one's point of view in a negative and personalA manner, does
nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and their
persona in the eyes of others.
From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many of
the detractors do not have much experience in running a business. And
make no mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To thrive,
this club must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance it's
value add to it's customers.
As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the
newsletter, for the board to not look for less expensive options, as
with any other expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible.
I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have
folks want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive and
provides less for much more money.A We have enough cronyism in our
government. Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been a
reason for keeping a more expensive service that provides less.
I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the
newsletter, that can be printed by anyoneA that is not to lazy to take
3 minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative.
As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person.A
Each person on the board has a say, with a majority required to decide
on every issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just that,
pointless.
Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of
the board to the other members of the board, showing how approving that
item would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying
financial implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long
term financial health.
Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a
constructive manner, with negative comments of a personal nature
irrelevant and therefore non-constructive.
I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to
think they are doing their job for free. What a deal...
By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their
comments, take it out on me.A I deserve it for letting 6831 sit idle
with a blown header gasket for years.
Peace, fellow "cat" owners.
Dick Koch - Atlanta
Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky
enough to be on the sunny side of the grass.
On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <[1]edducati at mac.com> wrote:
See below.
> On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige <[2]rkunishige at hotmail.com>
wrote:
>
>A It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace
period
>A without notice.
False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning at
30 days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club,
Ferrari club, Porsche club, they all have similar rules.
>
>A The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10
increased
>A rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first
place.A The
>A return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven.A
Simply, use
>A the money to pay for our publication costs.
False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority
chapter presidents.
>A PROPOSED:A $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund the
$62.52
>A publication estimate per MS.
That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive
quotes for printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that
is $8000 per year cheaper than the one we are currently using.
>
>A Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.A
Carrying
>A 853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year.A Divide that into
100,000
>A means funding covers 46.5 YEARS.
False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve in
the bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in
reserve. You can google there income statements.
>A OPINION:
>
>A I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4
vote but
>A there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has
>A proposed.A Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing
the
>A actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions
for
False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things we
have coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in
fact there very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best
interest of the club
This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and
should not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look
bad. If you have an issue talk with someone about your concern,
preferably your chapter president, they are your representative as
in any organization. It's very easy to simply pick up the phone
instead of using this email list as a podium for your disdain of MS.
It's obvious, we get it. Please take it offline.
If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and
many others before me, and run for office.
Kind regards
>A (Information taken from the Presidents Blog.)
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [3]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [4]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.) use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[5]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[6]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.) use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
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the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
References
1. mailto:edducati at mac.com
2. mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com
3. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
4. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
5. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
6. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
-------------- next part --------------
Now wait a minute Dick, what you write here is WAY too level-headed for
this forum!
Who is this really??
All joking aside, I obtain multiple bids for every one of a 'number' of
projects that I need to conduct every year. If I found a company that
could save me $8,000 a year on a particular project, I would have felt
like I won the lottery!
Sure, every once in a while the new company who submitted the lowest
bid does not do as good of a job of the old one but when that happens,
I go back to the next bid which sometimes was the same company I used
previously and all is back to normal.
$8,000 a year is an awful lot of money just to stay with the company
that you have and had comfort with.
The statement of adding color to the newsletter would of course cost a
bit more money but when you consider that we would be saving $8,000 off
the top, we have a touch more money to play with and the savings would
still be very sizable.
Plus, if any car club newsletter in this country is worthy of several
color pages, it absolutely would be Jack DeRyke's!! This club is and
will be indebted to you forever Jack! Thanks for the wonderful work you
do to keep our colorful jalopies on the road!!
Marshall
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Dick Koch <redcatman74 at gmail.com>
Date: 05/29/2016 9:57 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: Ed Mendez <edducati at mac.com>
Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis
Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and
non-productive
comments that have been made in recent weeks, many very personal and
vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club.
It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to
present one's point of view in a negative and personal manner, does
nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and their
persona in the eyes of others.
From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many of
the
detractors do not have much experience in running a business. And make
no
mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To thrive, this
club
must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance it's value add
to
it's customers.
As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the
newsletter,
for the board to not look for less expensive options, as with any other
expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible.
I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have
folks
want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive and
provides
less for much more money. We have enough cronyism in our government.
Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been a reason for
keeping a more expensive service that provides less.
I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the
newsletter, that can be printed by anyone that is not to lazy to take
3
minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative.
As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person.
Each
person on the board has a say, with a majority required to decide on
every
issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just that, pointless.
Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of
the
board to the other members of the board, showing how approving that
item
would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying
financial
implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long term
financial
health.
Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a
constructive
manner, with negative comments of a personal nature irrelevant and
therefore non-constructive.
I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to
think
they are doing their job for free. What a deal...
By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their
comments,
take it out on me. I deserve it for letting 6831 sit idle with a blown
header gasket for years.
Peace, fellow "cat" owners.
Dick Koch - Atlanta
Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky
enough
to be on the sunny side of the grass.
On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <edducati at mac.com> wrote:
> See below.
>
> > On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige <rkunishige at hotmail.com>
wrote:
> >
> > It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace
period
> > without notice.
>
> False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning at
30
> days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club, Ferrari
club,
> Porsche club, they all have similar rules.
> >
> > The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10 increased
> > rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first place.
The
> > return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven. Simply,
use
> > the money to pay for our publication costs.
> False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority
chapter
> presidents.
>
> > PROPOSED: $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund the
$62.52
> > publication estimate per MS.
>
> That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive quotes
for
> printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that is $8000 per
year
> cheaper than the one we are currently using.
> >
> > Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.
Carrying
> > 853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year. Divide that into
100,000
> > means funding covers 46.5 YEARS.
> False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve in
the
> bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in reserve.
You
> can google there income statements.
>
>
> > OPINION:
> >
> > I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4 vote
but
> > there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has
> > proposed. Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing the
> > actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions for
>
> False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things we
have
> coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in fact
there
> very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best interest of the
club
>
> This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and
should
> not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look bad. If you
have
> an issue talk with someone about your concern, preferably your
chapter
> president, they are your representative as in any organization. It's
very
> easy to simply pick up the phone instead of using this email list as
a
> podium for your disdain of MS. It's obvious, we get it. Please take
it
> offline.
>
> If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and
many
> others before me, and run for office.
>
> Kind regards
>
> > (Information taken from the Presidents Blog.)
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >
> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.)
> use the links above.
> >
> > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list.
> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
approve
> the archiving of list messages.
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use
> the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list.
> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
approve
> the archiving of list messages.
>
Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and
non-productive comments that have been made in recent weeks, many
very
personal and vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club.
It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to
present one's point of view in a negative and personalA manner,
does
nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and
their
persona in the eyes of others.
From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many
of
the detractors do not have much experience in running a business.
And
make no mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To
thrive,
this club must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance
it's
value add to it's customers.
As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the
newsletter, for the board to not look for less expensive options, as
with any other expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible.
I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have
folks want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive
and
provides less for much more money.A We have enough cronyism in our
government. Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been
a
reason for keeping a more expensive service that provides less.
I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the
newsletter, that can be printed by anyoneA that is not to lazy to
take
3 minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative.
As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person.A
Each person on the board has a say, with a majority required to
decide
on every issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just
that,
pointless.
Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of
the board to the other members of the board, showing how approving
that
item would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying
financial implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long
term financial health.
Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a
constructive manner, with negative comments of a personal nature
irrelevant and therefore non-constructive.
I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to
think they are doing their job for free. What a deal...
By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their
comments, take it out on me.A I deserve it for letting 6831 sit
idle
with a blown header gasket for years.
Peace, fellow "cat" owners.
Dick Koch - Atlanta
Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky
enough to be on the sunny side of the grass.
On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <[1]edducati at mac.com> wrote:
See below.
> On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige
<[2]rkunishige at hotmail.com>
wrote:
>
>A It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace
period
>A without notice.
False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning
at
30 days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club,
Ferrari club, Porsche club, they all have similar rules.
>
>A The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10
increased
>A rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first
place.A The
>A return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven.A
Simply, use
>A the money to pay for our publication costs.
False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority
chapter presidents.
>A PROPOSED:A $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund
the
$62.52
>A publication estimate per MS.
That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive
quotes for printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that
is $8000 per year cheaper than the one we are currently using.
>
>A Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.A
Carrying
>A 853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year.A Divide that into
100,000
>A means funding covers 46.5 YEARS.
False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve
in
the bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in
reserve. You can google there income statements.
>A OPINION:
>
>A I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4
vote but
>A there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has
>A proposed.A Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing
the
>A actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions
for
False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things
we
have coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in
fact there very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best
interest of the club
This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and
should not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look
bad. If you have an issue talk with someone about your concern,
preferably your chapter president, they are your representative as
in any organization. It's very easy to simply pick up the phone
instead of using this email list as a podium for your disdain of
MS.
It's obvious, we get it. Please take it offline.
If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and
many others before me, and run for office.
Kind regards
>A (Information taken from the Presidents Blog.)
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