[DeTomaso] Rear Window
Stephen
steve at snclocks.com
Wed Mar 23 22:53:29 EDT 2016
Pushers are fundamentally less efficient - apparently. Jet indicates that
they are 80% as efficient as a puller. But, heck, if the flow through the
condenser drops by 50% at speed, and in fact goes up if the flow is
reversed, would likely make up for such a loss of efficiency.
Thank you for your comments.
Stephen Nelson
From: Julian Kift [mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 7:41 AM
To: Stephen <steve at snclocks.com>
Cc: detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Rear Window
I reread my response and my apologies I was not clear in stating that the
stock setup is a sucker fan designed to pull external air through the
condenser into the engine bay, what you found at Jet is indeed a pusher.
Some fans are sold as reversible, but the Jet offering appears to have
straight blades and may significantly reduce efficiency wired as a puller.
Julian
_____
From: Stephen <steve at snclocks.com <mailto:steve at snclocks.com> >
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 6:56 AM
To: 'Julian Kift'
Cc: detomaso at poca.com <mailto:detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Rear Window
Could you send a picture of your installation?
On fan directions - I guess I am confused - Jet indicates their fan is a 10
inch pusher. Doesn't that mean it will push air through the radiator, not
suck it through?
<https://jet.com/product/detail/2aa79945005d4343a7ecd53e0cdd1409?gclid=CLKtu
Pnz1csCFUVhfgodUd8LVQ>
https://jet.com/product/detail/2aa79945005d4343a7ecd53e0cdd1409?gclid=CLKtuP
nz1csCFUVhfgodUd8LVQ
Stephen Nelson
-----Original Message-----
From: Julian Kift [mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 9:07 PM
To: Stephen <steve at snclocks.com <mailto:steve at snclocks.com> >; 'Dave'
<davel at emspace.com <mailto:davel at emspace.com> >
Cc: detomaso at poca.com <mailto:detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Rear Window
But it's a sucker fan, pulling air into the rear compartment.
Larry stock carries a nice upgrade, it fits the stock 10" shroud diameter
perfectly after removing the three mounting tabs for the stock fan (I just
installed one last week) and rated at 950cfm.
Julian
________________________________________
From: DeTomaso < <mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com>
detomaso-bounces at poca.com> on behalf of Stephen <
<mailto:steve at snclocks.com> steve at snclocks.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 8:54 PM
To: 'Dave'
Cc: <mailto:detomaso at poca.com> detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Rear Window
Hmmm - looks like a 10 inch opening in the original shroud, and Spal makes a
low-profile pusher -
<https://jet.com/product/detail/2aa79945005d4343a7ecd53e0cdd1409?gclid=CLKtu
P>
https://jet.com/product/detail/2aa79945005d4343a7ecd53e0cdd1409?gclid=CLKtuP
nz1csCFUVhfgodUd8LVQ only 2.05 inches thick. Hmmm. 650 CFM. Only $58.
Stephen Nelson
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [ <mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com>
mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 7:42 PM
To: <mailto:detomaso at poca.com> detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Rear Window
Or reverse the leads and turn the impeller over.
(Ok - not helpful)
dave
On 3/22/2016 6:06 PM, Stephen wrote:
> Hmmm - reverse the leads on the existing fan or move the condenser to
> the front of the car. Hmmm...
>
>
> The work I've done suggests reversing air flow would likely be pretty
> darned effective, especially at speed. But, will have to wait for
> summer to see if it really does make the a/c colder.
>
>
> I also suspect it would be interesting to be cruising down the
> road
and
> s/d the condenser fan - and see if the temperature at the a/c vents
> goes up, down or holds. Absolutely, monitor the temperature - and
make
> sure you don't over pressure your system (an increasing vent
> temperature would be a pretty good warning). But, it would give one a
> better idea of the impact of a sucker fan on the condenser.
>
>
> Fortunately 5332 is still using R12 - I ended up with around 40 pounds
> of it when the big switch hit. So, plan to stay on it for all my
older
> cars. Less risk of hoses going out.
>
>
> Stephen Nelson
>
>
> [1]SNClocks.com
>
> Click here to join one of our mailing lists [2]Contact Lists
>
> Click here for our new [3]Hammered Dulcimers galleries
>
> Click here for [4]my new blog on finding happiness in retirement
>
>
> From: <mailto:jgkrenton at comcast.net> jgkrenton at comcast.net [
<mailto:jgkrenton at comcast.net> mailto:jgkrenton at comcast.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 4:08 PM
> To: Stephen < <mailto:steve at snclocks.com> steve at snclocks.com>
> Cc: Jeff Detrich < <mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com> jjdetrich at gmail.com>;
<mailto:detomaso at poca.com> detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Rear Window
>
>
> You could always move the condenser to the front of the car like many
> have done. I believe this modification is reported to be quite
> effective.
>
>
> Jeff Kimball/2467
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> _
>
> From: "Stephen" <[5] <mailto:steve at snclocks.com> steve at snclocks.com>
> To: "Jeff Detrich" <[6] <mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com>
jjdetrich at gmail.com>
> Cc: [7] <mailto:detomaso at poca.com> detomaso at poca.com
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 12:54:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Rear Window
>
>
> You are right Jeff - especially because the fan powers from a wire on
> the dash-mounted temperature control that is separate from the wire
> that powers the a/c compressor clutch.
>
>
>
>
> Stephen Nelson
>
>
>
>
> SNClocks.com <[8] <http://www.snclocks.com/> http://www.snclocks.com/>
>
>
> Click here to join one of our mailing lists Contact Lists
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> -Steves-Dulcimers/19824807_4sHGgj#1558377542_LKmkrT7> Hammered
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> Click here for my new blog <[11] <http://www.perfectoldman.com/>
http://www.perfectoldman.com/> on
> finding happiness in retirement
>
>
>
>
> From: Jeff Detrich [[12] <mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com>
mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 12:10 PM
> To: Stephen <[13] <mailto:steve at snclocks.com> steve at snclocks.com>
> Cc: [14] <mailto:detomaso at poca.com> detomaso at poca.com; [15]
<mailto:tjaarda at astranet.it> tjaarda at astranet.it
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Rear Window
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 1:25 PM, Stephen <[16]
<mailto:steve at snclocks.com> steve at snclocks.com
> < <mailto:steve at snclocks.com> mailto:steve at snclocks.com> > wrote:
>
>
> The positive pressure under the rear of the car when it is moving at
> speed, coupled with the likely vacuum behind the car reduces the
> efficiency of the a/c condenser fan. My tests suggest that around
> 60
> mph the air-flow through the condenser is reduced by about 40%. At
> around 80 mph it is reduced by over 50%. While I don't have a
> massive
> amount of data, what I have suggests that the decrease in flow
> through
> the condenser is not directly proportional to car speed, and that,
> in
> the 90 to 100 mph range the flow through the a/c condenser drops to
> around nothing.
>
>
> Sounds like if you are going to be cruising at very high speeds, just
> having a kill switch on the condenser fans would be helpful. That
would
> be easy to wire I would think.
>
>
>
>
> Jeff
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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http://www.snclocks.com/TheRestofourWorld/Hammered-Dulcimers/About-Steves-Du
lcimers/19824807_4sHGgj#1558377542_LKmkrT7
> 4. <http://www.perfectoldman.com/> http://www.perfectoldman.com/
> 5. <mailto:steve at snclocks.com> mailto:steve at snclocks.com
> 6. <mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com> mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
> 7. <mailto:detomaso at poca.com> mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 8. <http://www.snclocks.com/> http://www.snclocks.com/
> 9. <http://fs19.formsite.com/kagforms/form675003155/index.html>
http://fs19.formsite.com/kagforms/form675003155/index.html
> 10.
<http://www.snclocks.com/TheRestofourWorld/Hammered-Dulcimers/About-Steves-D
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> 11. <http://www.perfectoldman.com/> http://www.perfectoldman.com/
> 12. <mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com> mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
> 13. <mailto:steve at snclocks.com> mailto:steve at snclocks.com
> 14. <mailto:detomaso at poca.com> mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 15. <mailto:tjaarda at astranet.it> mailto:tjaarda at astranet.it
> 16. <mailto:steve at snclocks.com%20%3cmailto:steve at snclocks.com>
mailto:steve at snclocks.com%20%3cmailto:steve at snclocks.com
> 17. <mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com> mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 18. <http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com>
http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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-------------- next part --------------
Pushers are fundamentally less efficient - apparently. Jet indicates
that they are 80% as efficient as a puller. But, heck, if the flow
through the condenser drops by 50% at speed, and in fact goes up if the
flow is reversed, would likely make up for such a loss of efficiency.
Thank you for your comments.
Stephen Nelson
From: Julian Kift [mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 7:41 AM
To: Stephen <steve at snclocks.com>
Cc: detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Rear Window
I reread my response and my apologies I was not clear in stating
that the stock setup is a sucker fan designed to pull external air
through the condenser into the engine bay, what you found at Jet is
indeed a pusher. Some fans are sold as reversible, but the Jet offering
appears to have straight blades and may significantly reduce efficiency
wired as a puller.
Julian
_____________________________________________________________________
From: Stephen <[1]steve at snclocks.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 6:56 AM
To: 'Julian Kift'
Cc: [2]detomaso at poca.com
Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Rear Window
Could you send a picture of your installation?
On fan directions - I guess I am confused - Jet indicates their fan is
a 10 inch pusher. Doesn't that mean it will push air through the
radiator, not suck it through?
[3]https://jet.com/product/detail/2aa79945005d4343a7ecd53e0cdd1409?gcli
d=CLKtuPnz1csCFUVhfgodUd8LVQ
Stephen Nelson
-----Original Message-----
From: Julian Kift [[4]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 9:07 PM
To: Stephen <[5]steve at snclocks.com>; 'Dave' <[6]davel at emspace.com>
Cc: [7]detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Rear Window
But it's a sucker fan, pulling air into the rear compartment.
Larry stock carries a nice upgrade, it fits the stock 10" shroud
diameter perfectly after removing the three mounting tabs for the stock
fan (I just installed one last week) and rated at 950cfm.
Julian
________________________________________
From: DeTomaso <[8]detomaso-bounces at poca.com> on behalf of Stephen
<[9]steve at snclocks.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 8:54 PM
To: 'Dave'
Cc: [10]detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Rear Window
Hmmm - looks like a 10 inch opening in the original shroud, and Spal
makes a low-profile pusher -
[11]https://jet.com/product/detail/2aa79945005d4343a7ecd53e0cdd1409?gcl
id=CLKtuP
nz1csCFUVhfgodUd8LVQ only 2.05 inches thick. Hmmm. 650 CFM. Only
$58.
Stephen Nelson
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [[12]mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 7:42 PM
To: [13]detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Rear Window
Or reverse the leads and turn the impeller over.
(Ok - not helpful)
dave
On 3/22/2016 6:06 PM, Stephen wrote:
> Hmmm - reverse the leads on the existing fan or move the
condenser to
> the front of the car. Hmmm...
>
>
> The work I've done suggests reversing air flow would likely be
pretty
> darned effective, especially at speed. But, will have to wait
for
> summer to see if it really does make the a/c colder.
>
>
> I also suspect it would be interesting to be cruising down the
> road
and
> s/d the condenser fan - and see if the temperature at the a/c
vents
> goes up, down or holds. Absolutely, monitor the temperature -
and
make
> sure you don't over pressure your system (an increasing vent
> temperature would be a pretty good warning). But, it would give
one a
> better idea of the impact of a sucker fan on the condenser.
>
>
> Fortunately 5332 is still using R12 - I ended up with around 40
pounds
> of it when the big switch hit. So, plan to stay on it for all my
older
> cars. Less risk of hoses going out.
>
>
> Stephen Nelson
>
>
> [1]SNClocks.com
>
> Click here to join one of our mailing lists [2]Contact Lists
>
> Click here for our new [3]Hammered Dulcimers galleries
>
> Click here for [4]my new blog on finding happiness in retirement
>
>
> From: [14]jgkrenton at comcast.net
[[15]mailto:jgkrenton at comcast.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 4:08 PM
> To: Stephen <[16]steve at snclocks.com>
> Cc: Jeff Detrich <[17]jjdetrich at gmail.com>; [18]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Rear Window
>
>
> You could always move the condenser to the front of the car like
many
> have done. I believe this modification is reported to be quite
> effective.
>
>
> Jeff Kimball/2467
>
>
>
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
> _
>
> From: "Stephen" <[5][19]steve at snclocks.com>
> To: "Jeff Detrich" <[6][20]jjdetrich at gmail.com>
> Cc: [7][21]detomaso at poca.com
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 12:54:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Rear Window
>
>
> You are right Jeff - especially because the fan powers from a
wire on
> the dash-mounted temperature control that is separate from the
wire
> that powers the a/c compressor clutch.
>
>
>
>
> Stephen Nelson
>
>
>
>
> SNClocks.com <[8][22]http://www.snclocks.com/>
>
>
> Click here to join one of our mailing lists Contact Lists
>
<[9][23]http://fs19.formsite.com/kagforms/form675003155/index.html>
>
>
> Click here for our new
>
<[10][24]http://www.snclocks.com/TheRestofourWorld/Hammered-Dulcimers/A
bout
> -Steves-Dulcimers/19824807_4sHGgj#1558377542_LKmkrT7> Hammered
> Dulcimers galleries
>
>
> Click here for my new blog
<[11][25]http://www.perfectoldman.com/> on
> finding happiness in retirement
>
>
>
>
> From: Jeff Detrich [[12][26]mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 12:10 PM
> To: Stephen <[13][27]steve at snclocks.com>
> Cc: [14][28]detomaso at poca.com; [15][29]tjaarda at astranet.it
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Rear Window
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 1:25 PM, Stephen
<[16][30]steve at snclocks.com
> <[31]mailto:steve at snclocks.com> > wrote:
>
>
> The positive pressure under the rear of the car when it is
moving at
> speed, coupled with the likely vacuum behind the car reduces
the
> efficiency of the a/c condenser fan. My tests suggest that
around
> 60
> mph the air-flow through the condenser is reduced by about
40%. At
> around 80 mph it is reduced by over 50%. While I don't have a
> massive
> amount of data, what I have suggests that the decrease in flow
> through
> the condenser is not directly proportional to car speed, and
that,
> in
> the 90 to 100 mph range the flow through the a/c condenser
drops to
> around nothing.
>
>
> Sounds like if you are going to be cruising at very high speeds,
just
> having a kill switch on the condenser fans would be helpful. That
would
> be easy to wire I would think.
>
>
>
>
> Jeff
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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Steves-Du
lcimers/19824807_4sHGgj#1558377542_LKmkrT7
> 4. [37]http://www.perfectoldman.com/
> 5. [38]mailto:steve at snclocks.com
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[43]http://www.snclocks.com/TheRestofourWorld/Hammered-Dulcimers/About-
Steves-Du
lcimers/19824807_4sHGgj#1558377542_LKmkrT7
> 11. [44]http://www.perfectoldman.com/
> 12. [45]mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
> 13. [46]mailto:steve at snclocks.com
> 14. [47]mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 15. [48]mailto:tjaarda at astranet.it
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References
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2. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
3. https://jet.com/product/detail/2aa79945005d4343a7ecd53e0cdd1409?gclid=CLKtuPnz1csCFUVhfgodUd8LVQ
4. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
5. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
6. mailto:davel at emspace.com
7. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
8. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
9. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
10. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
11. https://jet.com/product/detail/2aa79945005d4343a7ecd53e0cdd1409?gclid=CLKtuP
12. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
13. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
14. mailto:jgkrenton at comcast.net
15. mailto:jgkrenton at comcast.net
16. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
17. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
18. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
19. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
20. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
21. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
22. http://www.snclocks.com/
23. http://fs19.formsite.com/kagforms/form675003155/index.html
24. http://www.snclocks.com/TheRestofourWorld/Hammered-Dulcimers/About
25. http://www.perfectoldman.com/
26. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
27. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
28. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
29. mailto:tjaarda at astranet.it
30. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
31. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
32. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
33. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
34. http://www.snclocks.com/
35. http://fs19.formsite.com/kagforms/form675003155/index.html
36. http://www.snclocks.com/TheRestofourWorld/Hammered-Dulcimers/About-Steves-Du
37. http://www.perfectoldman.com/
38. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
39. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
40. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
41. http://www.snclocks.com/
42. http://fs19.formsite.com/kagforms/form675003155/index.html
43. http://www.snclocks.com/TheRestofourWorld/Hammered-Dulcimers/About-Steves-Du
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