[DeTomaso] Rear Window
Michael Shortt
michaelsavga at gmail.com
Wed Mar 23 23:20:40 EDT 2016
My fundamental issue with a front mounted fan / pusher is that just being
mounted there in the first place, it blocks airflow to the radiator in a
footprint at least as big at the frame, motor and blades and probrably much
more as a result of turbulence.
Michael Shortt
On Mar 23, 2016 10:57 PM, "Stephen" <steve at snclocks.com> wrote:
> Pushers are fundamentally less efficient - apparently. Jet indicates
> that they are 80% as efficient as a puller. But, heck, if the flow
> through the condenser drops by 50% at speed, and in fact goes up if the
> flow is reversed, would likely make up for such a loss of efficiency.
>
>
> Thank you for your comments.
>
>
> Stephen Nelson
>
>
>
> From: Julian Kift [mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 7:41 AM
> To: Stephen <steve at snclocks.com>
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Rear Window
>
>
> I reread my response and my apologies I was not clear in stating
> that the stock setup is a sucker fan designed to pull external air
> through the condenser into the engine bay, what you found at Jet is
> indeed a pusher. Some fans are sold as reversible, but the Jet offering
> appears to have straight blades and may significantly reduce efficiency
> wired as a puller.
>
>
> Julian
> _____________________________________________________________________
>
> From: Stephen <[1]steve at snclocks.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 6:56 AM
> To: 'Julian Kift'
> Cc: [2]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Rear Window
>
>
> Could you send a picture of your installation?
>
>
> On fan directions - I guess I am confused - Jet indicates their fan is
> a 10 inch pusher. Doesn't that mean it will push air through the
> radiator, not suck it through?
>
>
> [3]https://jet.com/product/detail/2aa79945005d4343a7ecd53e0cdd1409?gcli
> d=CLKtuPnz1csCFUVhfgodUd8LVQ
>
>
> Stephen Nelson
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Julian Kift [[4]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 9:07 PM
> To: Stephen <[5]steve at snclocks.com>; 'Dave' <[6]davel at emspace.com>
> Cc: [7]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Rear Window
>
>
> But it's a sucker fan, pulling air into the rear compartment.
>
>
> Larry stock carries a nice upgrade, it fits the stock 10" shroud
> diameter perfectly after removing the three mounting tabs for the stock
> fan (I just installed one last week) and rated at 950cfm.
>
>
> Julian
>
>
> ________________________________________
>
> From: DeTomaso <[8]detomaso-bounces at poca.com> on behalf of Stephen
> <[9]steve at snclocks.com>
>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 8:54 PM
>
> To: 'Dave'
>
> Cc: [10]detomaso at poca.com
>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Rear Window
>
>
> Hmmm - looks like a 10 inch opening in the original shroud, and Spal
> makes a low-profile pusher -
> [11]https://jet.com/product/detail/2aa79945005d4343a7ecd53e0cdd1409?gcl
> id=CLKtuP
>
> nz1csCFUVhfgodUd8LVQ only 2.05 inches thick. Hmmm. 650 CFM. Only
> $58.
>
>
> Stephen Nelson
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: DeTomaso [[12]mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Dave
>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 7:42 PM
>
> To: [13]detomaso at poca.com
>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Rear Window
>
>
> Or reverse the leads and turn the impeller over.
>
> (Ok - not helpful)
>
> dave
>
>
>
> On 3/22/2016 6:06 PM, Stephen wrote:
>
> > Hmmm - reverse the leads on the existing fan or move the
> condenser to
>
> > the front of the car. Hmmm...
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > The work I've done suggests reversing air flow would likely be
> pretty
>
> > darned effective, especially at speed. But, will have to wait
> for
>
> > summer to see if it really does make the a/c colder.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I also suspect it would be interesting to be cruising down the
>
> > road
>
> and
>
> > s/d the condenser fan - and see if the temperature at the a/c
> vents
>
> > goes up, down or holds. Absolutely, monitor the temperature -
> and
>
> make
>
> > sure you don't over pressure your system (an increasing vent
>
> > temperature would be a pretty good warning). But, it would give
> one a
>
> > better idea of the impact of a sucker fan on the condenser.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Fortunately 5332 is still using R12 - I ended up with around 40
> pounds
>
> > of it when the big switch hit. So, plan to stay on it for all my
>
> older
>
> > cars. Less risk of hoses going out.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Stephen Nelson
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > [1]SNClocks.com
>
> >
>
> > Click here to join one of our mailing lists [2]Contact Lists
>
> >
>
> > Click here for our new [3]Hammered Dulcimers galleries
>
> >
>
> > Click here for [4]my new blog on finding happiness in retirement
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > From: [14]jgkrenton at comcast.net
> [[15]mailto:jgkrenton at comcast.net]
>
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 4:08 PM
>
> > To: Stephen <[16]steve at snclocks.com>
>
> > Cc: Jeff Detrich <[17]jjdetrich at gmail.com>; [18]detomaso at poca.com
>
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Rear Window
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > You could always move the condenser to the front of the car like
> many
>
> > have done. I believe this modification is reported to be quite
>
> > effective.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Jeff Kimball/2467
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
> ______________________________________________________________________
>
> > _
>
> >
>
> > From: "Stephen" <[5][19]steve at snclocks.com>
>
> > To: "Jeff Detrich" <[6][20]jjdetrich at gmail.com>
>
> > Cc: [7][21]detomaso at poca.com
>
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 12:54:02 PM
>
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Rear Window
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > You are right Jeff - especially because the fan powers from a
> wire on
>
> > the dash-mounted temperature control that is separate from the
> wire
>
> > that powers the a/c compressor clutch.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Stephen Nelson
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > SNClocks.com <[8][22]http://www.snclocks.com/>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Click here to join one of our mailing lists Contact Lists
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> <[9][23]http://fs19.formsite.com/kagforms/form675003155/index.html>
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> >
>
> >
>
> > Click here for our new
>
> >
>
> <[10][24]http://www.snclocks.com/TheRestofourWorld/Hammered-Dulcimers/A
> bout
>
> > -Steves-Dulcimers/19824807_4sHGgj#1558377542_LKmkrT7> Hammered
>
> > Dulcimers galleries
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Click here for my new blog
> <[11][25]http://www.perfectoldman.com/> on
>
> > finding happiness in retirement
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > From: Jeff Detrich [[12][26]mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com]
>
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 12:10 PM
>
> > To: Stephen <[13][27]steve at snclocks.com>
>
> > Cc: [14][28]detomaso at poca.com; [15][29]tjaarda at astranet.it
>
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Rear Window
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 1:25 PM, Stephen
> <[16][30]steve at snclocks.com
>
> > <[31]mailto:steve at snclocks.com> > wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > The positive pressure under the rear of the car when it is
> moving at
>
> > speed, coupled with the likely vacuum behind the car reduces
> the
>
> > efficiency of the a/c condenser fan. My tests suggest that
> around
>
> > 60
>
> > mph the air-flow through the condenser is reduced by about
> 40%. At
>
> > around 80 mph it is reduced by over 50%. While I don't have a
>
> > massive
>
> > amount of data, what I have suggests that the decrease in flow
>
> > through
>
> > the condenser is not directly proportional to car speed, and
> that,
>
> > in
>
> > the 90 to 100 mph range the flow through the a/c condenser
> drops to
>
> > around nothing.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Sounds like if you are going to be cruising at very high speeds,
> just
>
> > having a kill switch on the condenser fans would be helpful. That
>
> would
>
> > be easy to wire I would think.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Jeff
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
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>
> > 3.
>
> [36]http://www.snclocks.com/TheRestofourWorld/Hammered-Dulcimers/About-
> Steves-Du
>
> lcimers/19824807_4sHGgj#1558377542_LKmkrT7
>
> > 4. [37]http://www.perfectoldman.com/
>
> > 5. [38]mailto:steve at snclocks.com
>
> > 6. [39]mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
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> > 7. [40]mailto:detomaso at poca.com
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> > 8. [41]http://www.snclocks.com/
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> > 9. [42]http://fs19.formsite.com/kagforms/form675003155/index.html
>
> > 10.
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> [43]http://www.snclocks.com/TheRestofourWorld/Hammered-Dulcimers/About-
> Steves-Du
>
> lcimers/19824807_4sHGgj#1558377542_LKmkrT7
>
> > 11. [44]http://www.perfectoldman.com/
>
> > 12. [45]mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
>
> > 13. [46]mailto:steve at snclocks.com
>
> > 14. [47]mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>
> > 15. [48]mailto:tjaarda at astranet.it
>
> > 16. [49]mailto:steve at snclocks.com%20%3cmailto:steve at snclocks.com
>
> > 17. [50]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>
> > 18. [51]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> >
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> >
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> References
>
> 1. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
> 2. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 3.
> https://jet.com/product/detail/2aa79945005d4343a7ecd53e0cdd1409?gclid=CLKtuPnz1csCFUVhfgodUd8LVQ
> 4. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
> 5. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
> 6. mailto:davel at emspace.com
> 7. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 8. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
> 9. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
> 10. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 11.
> https://jet.com/product/detail/2aa79945005d4343a7ecd53e0cdd1409?gclid=CLKtuP
> 12. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
> 13. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 14. mailto:jgkrenton at comcast.net
> 15. mailto:jgkrenton at comcast.net
> 16. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
> 17. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
> 18. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 19. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
> 20. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
> 21. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 22. http://www.snclocks.com/
> 23. http://fs19.formsite.com/kagforms/form675003155/index.html
> 24. http://www.snclocks.com/TheRestofourWorld/Hammered-Dulcimers/About
> 25. http://www.perfectoldman.com/
> 26. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
> 27. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
> 28. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 29. mailto:tjaarda at astranet.it
> 30. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
> 31. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
> 32. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 33. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 34. http://www.snclocks.com/
> 35. http://fs19.formsite.com/kagforms/form675003155/index.html
> 36.
> http://www.snclocks.com/TheRestofourWorld/Hammered-Dulcimers/About-Steves-Du
> 37. http://www.perfectoldman.com/
> 38. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
> 39. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
> 40. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 41. http://www.snclocks.com/
> 42. http://fs19.formsite.com/kagforms/form675003155/index.html
> 43.
> http://www.snclocks.com/TheRestofourWorld/Hammered-Dulcimers/About-Steves-Du
> 44. http://www.perfectoldman.com/
> 45. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
> 46. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
> 47. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 48. mailto:tjaarda at astranet.it
> 49. mailto:steve at snclocks.com%20%3cmailto:steve at snclocks.com
> 50. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 51. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 52. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 53. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 54. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 55. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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-------------- next part --------------
My fundamental issue with a front mounted fan / pusher is that just
being mounted there in the first place, it blocks airflow to the
radiator in a footprint at least as big at the frame, motor and blades
and probrably much more as a result of turbulence.
Michael Shortt
On Mar 23, 2016 10:57 PM, "Stephen" <[1]steve at snclocks.com> wrote:
A A Pushers are fundamentally less efficient - apparently.A Jet
indicates
A A that they are 80% as efficient as a puller.A But, heck, if the
flow
A A through the condenser drops by 50% at speed, and in fact goes
up if the
A A flow is reversed, would likely make up for such a loss of
efficiency.
A A Thank you for your comments.
A A Stephen Nelson
A A From: Julian Kift [mailto:[2]julian_kift at hotmail.com]
A A Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 7:41 AM
A A To: Stephen <[3]steve at snclocks.com>
A A Cc: [4]detomaso at poca.com
A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Rear Window
A A I reread my response and my apologies I was not clear in
stating
A A that the stock setup is a sucker fan designed to pull external
air
A A through the condenser into the engine bay, what you found at
Jet is
A A indeed a pusher. Some fans are sold as reversible, but the Jet
offering
A A appears to have straight blades and may significantly reduce
efficiency
A A wired as a puller.
A A Julian
A A
____________________________________________________________________
_
A A From: Stephen <[1][5]steve at snclocks.com>
A A Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 6:56 AM
A A To: 'Julian Kift'
A A Cc: [2][6]detomaso at poca.com
A A Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Rear Window
A A Could you send a picture of your installation?
A A On fan directions - I guess I am confused - Jet indicates their
fan is
A A a 10 inch pusher.A Doesn't that mean it will push air through
the
A A radiator, not suck it through?
A
A [3][7]https://jet.com/product/detail/2aa79945005d4343a7ecd53e0cdd1
409?gcli
A A d=CLKtuPnz1csCFUVhfgodUd8LVQ
A A Stephen Nelson
A A -----Original Message-----
A A From: Julian Kift [[4]mailto:[8]julian_kift at hotmail.com]
A A Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 9:07 PM
A A To: Stephen <[5][9]steve at snclocks.com>; 'Dave'
<[6][10]davel at emspace.com>
A A Cc: [7][11]detomaso at poca.com
A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Rear Window
A A But it's a sucker fan, pulling air into the rear compartment.
A A Larry stock carries a nice upgrade, it fits the stock 10"
shroud
A A diameter perfectly after removing the three mounting tabs for
the stock
A A fan (I just installed one last week) and rated at 950cfm.
A A Julian
A A ________________________________________
A A From: DeTomaso <[8][12]detomaso-bounces at poca.com> on behalf of
Stephen
A A <[9][13]steve at snclocks.com>
A A Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 8:54 PM
A A To: 'Dave'
A A Cc: [10][14]detomaso at poca.com
A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Rear Window
A A Hmmm - looks like a 10 inch opening in the original shroud, and
Spal
A A makes a low-profile pusher -
A
A [11][15]https://jet.com/product/detail/2aa79945005d4343a7ecd53e0cd
d1409?gcl
A A id=CLKtuP
A A nz1csCFUVhfgodUd8LVQA only 2.05 inches thick.A Hmmm.A 650
CFM.A Only
A A $58.
A A Stephen Nelson
A A -----Original Message-----
A A From: DeTomaso [[12]mailto:[16]detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On
Behalf Of Dave
A A Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 7:42 PM
A A To: [13][17]detomaso at poca.com
A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Rear Window
A A Or reverse the leads and turn the impeller over.
A A (Ok - not helpful)
A A dave
A A On 3/22/2016 6:06 PM, Stephen wrote:
A A >A A A Hmmm - reverse the leads on the existing fan or move
the
A A condenser to
A A >A A A the front of the car.A Hmmm...
A A >
A A >
A A >A A A The work I've done suggests reversing air flow would
likely be
A A pretty
A A >A A A darned effective, especially at speed.A But, will
have to wait
A A for
A A >A A A summer to see if it really does make the a/c colder.
A A >
A A >
A A >A A A I also suspect it would be interesting to be cruising
down the
A A > road
A A and
A A >A A A s/d the condenser fan - and see if the temperature at
the a/c
A A vents
A A >A A A goes up, down or holds.A Absolutely, monitor the
temperature -
A A and
A A make
A A >A A A sure you don't over pressure your system (an
increasing vent
A A >A A A temperature would be a pretty good warning).A But, it
would give
A A one a
A A >A A A better idea of the impact of a sucker fan on the
condenser.
A A >
A A >
A A >A A A Fortunately 5332 is still using R12 - I ended up with
around 40
A A pounds
A A >A A A of it when the big switch hit.A So, plan to stay on
it for all my
A A older
A A >A A A cars.A Less risk of hoses going out.
A A >
A A >
A A >A A A Stephen Nelson
A A >
A A >
A A >A A A [1]SNClocks.com
A A >
A A >A A A Click here to join one of our mailing lists [2]Contact
Lists
A A >
A A >A A A Click here for our new [3]Hammered Dulcimers galleries
A A >
A A >A A A Click here for [4]my new blog on finding happiness in
retirement
A A >
A A >
A A >A A A From: [14][18]jgkrenton at comcast.net
A A [[15]mailto:[19]jgkrenton at comcast.net]
A A >A A A Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 4:08 PM
A A >A A A To: Stephen <[16][20]steve at snclocks.com>
A A >A A A Cc: Jeff Detrich <[17][21]jjdetrich at gmail.com>;
[18][22]detomaso at poca.com
A A >A A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Rear Window
A A >
A A >
A A >A A A You could always move the condenser to the front of
the car like
A A many
A A >A A A have done.A I believe this modification is reported
to be quite
A A >A A A effective.
A A >
A A >
A A >A A A Jeff Kimball/2467
A A >
A A >
A A >
A A >
A A >
A
A __________________________________________________________________
____
A A > _
A A >
A A >A A A From: "Stephen" <[5][19][23]steve at snclocks.com>
A A >A A A To: "Jeff Detrich" <[6][20][24]jjdetrich at gmail.com>
A A >A A A Cc: [7][21][25]detomaso at poca.com
A A >A A A Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 12:54:02 PM
A A >A A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Rear Window
A A >
A A >
A A >A A A You are right Jeff - especially because the fan powers
from a
A A wire on
A A >A A A the dash-mounted temperature control that is separate
from the
A A wire
A A >A A A that powers the a/c compressor clutch.
A A >
A A >
A A >
A A >
A A >A A A Stephen Nelson
A A >
A A >
A A >
A A >
A A >A A A SNClocks.com <[8][22][26]http://www.snclocks.com/>
A A >
A A >
A A >A A A Click here to join one of our mailing lists Contact
Lists
A A >
A
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html>
A A >
A A >
A A >A A A Click here for our new
A A >
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A <[10][24][28]http://www.snclocks.com/TheRestofourWorld/Hammered-Du
lcimers/A
A A bout
A A >A A A -Steves-Dulcimers/19824807_4sHGgj#1558377542_LKmkrT7>
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A A >A A A Dulcimers galleries
A A >
A A >
A A >A A A Click here for my new blog
A A <[11][25][29]http://www.perfectoldman.com/>A on
A A >A A A finding happiness in retirement
A A >
A A >
A A >
A A >
A A >A A A From: Jeff Detrich
[[12][26]mailto:[30]jjdetrich at gmail.com]
A A >A A A Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 12:10 PM
A A >A A A To: Stephen <[13][27][31]steve at snclocks.com>
A A >A A A Cc: [14][28][32]detomaso at poca.com;
[15][29][33]tjaarda at astranet.it
A A >A A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Rear Window
A A >
A A >
A A >
A A >
A A >
A A >
A A >A A A On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 1:25 PM, Stephen
A A <[16][30][34]steve at snclocks.com
A A >A A A <[31]mailto:[35]steve at snclocks.com> > wrote:
A A >
A A >
A A >A A A The positive pressure under the rear of the car when
it is
A A moving at
A A >A A A A speed, coupled with the likely vacuum behind the
car reduces
A A the
A A >A A A A efficiency of the a/c condenser fan.A My tests
suggest that
A A around
A A >A A A 60
A A >A A A A mph the air-flow through the condenser is reduced
by about
A A 40%.A At
A A >A A A A around 80 mph it is reduced by over 50%.A While I
don't have a
A A >A A A massive
A A >A A A A amount of data, what I have suggests that the
decrease in flow
A A >A A A through
A A >A A A A the condenser is not directly proportional to car
speed, and
A A that,
A A >A A A in
A A >A A A A the 90 to 100 mph range the flow through the a/c
condenser
A A drops to
A A >A A A A around nothing.
A A >
A A >
A A >A A A Sounds like if you are going to be cruising at very
high speeds,
A A just
A A >A A A having a kill switch on the condenser fans would be
helpful. That
A A would
A A >A A A be easy to wire I would think.
A A >
A A >
A A >
A A >
A A >A A A Jeff
A A >
A A >
A A >A A A _______________________________________________
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A A >A A A 5. [38]mailto:[42]steve at snclocks.com
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[49]mailto:[53]steve at snclocks.com%[54]20%3cmailto:steve at snclocks.com
A A >A A 17. [50]mailto:[55]DeTomaso at poca.com
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