[DeTomaso] Cooling system

Ken and Lela MacArthur klckmac at msn.com
Wed Jul 27 13:46:17 EDT 2016


Getting 2nd opinion today. This shop thinks it looks ok, just age on it, will do a $30 test, but seems pretty optimistic it's not a total re-do like the other shop. Crossing my fingers.


He was surprised the other shop just made a diagnosis without a test, which tells me which shop to avoid.


________________________________
From: Himes, Terry (397C) <terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov>
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2016 7:15 AM
To: MikeLDrew at aol.com; klckmac at msn.com; detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system

I agree with Mike.  I have my original radiator with new fans and it is still functioning
perfectly.  <knock on wood>.  I'm no expert but it doesn't make sense to spend a ton
of money.  I do have to pull some preventative maintenance on my 42 year old radiator,
but I'm not going to spend a lot to do it. That's my plan anyway.


"A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan,
 stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!"

Terry W. Himes
JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Dawn Spacecraft Team
Rosetta Sequence Team Lead
Phone: (818) 393-6261
Cell:     (818) 653-8213
Fax:     (818) 393-3147
thimes at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov>
🇺🇸

From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com>> on behalf of Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>>
Reply-To: "MikeLDrew at aol.com<mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com>" <MikeLDrew at aol.com<mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com>>
Date: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 4:33 PM
To: "klckmac at msn.com<mailto:klckmac at msn.com>" <klckmac at msn.com<mailto:klckmac at msn.com>>, "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>" <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system


In a message dated 7/26/16 8 41 31, klckmac at msn.com<mailto:klckmac at msn.com> writes:


Looking for advice on the newer aluminum radiators and stainless tube
sets offered out there. I just took my OLD Hall brass one in for repairs and
they want $650 for a re-do. I could get a new one for that price, but would
like to know who has upgraded to a turn key kit like PIM offers or other
dealer and if you would recommend any particular setup.

Ken,

Lots of people are proposing a $1500 fix to a $200 problem.   For sure,
that would work, but is it necessary?   No.

The first thing you need to do is find another radiator shop.   The quote
they gave you is absurd.   Likely they are proposing an entirely new core for
your existing tanks, which amounts to buying a whole new radiator.   If
your core is well and truly shot, then yes, you might as well just get a new
radiator, but in that case I would just buy another one like you have now.

By way of contrast to the megabucks suggestions, consider this:

A few years ago, Wilkinson gave Lori an old Hall radiator for free.   He
had removed it from a customer's car when that guy 'upgraded' to a megabuck
Fluidyne radiator and sucker fan setup.   Steve actually offered me the choice
of several old radiators, and I took the best-looking one, knowing it
needed work.

I brought it to a radiator shop out in the country a half-hour from my
house.   They pressure-tested it and found several leaks, from failures in the
brazing around the drain petcock caused by overtightening, and from the
junction of the core and one of the end tanks.

They fixed all the leaks, pressure-tested it, painted it and gave it back
to me, looking as good as new and guaranteed to work.

For this, they charged me FORTY dollars.   Not $650, not anything close.
That radiator, with Hall Meriah fans, keeps her car running at a rock-solid
180 degrees in all conditions, including extended periods of idling in Las
Vegas traffic with ambient temps nearing 100 degrees, and has been doing so
now for years.

Yes, you could spend a ton of money on an all-new setup.   But as long as
your existing core is good (and why wouldn't it be?), you should be able to
get minor leaks repaired easily for a fraction of the cost of buying a new
Hall replacement radiator, never mind the megabuck setup.

One tremendous advantage of a brass radiator (any brass radiator) is that
it can normally be repaired easily if it suffers damage when you're on the
road.   The aluminum radiators are glued together and normally not easily
repaired--if they can be repaired at all.   So while Hall recently failed to
warranty their product per Chuck's testimony, at least their product is
infinitely repairable.

A Mangusta owner from England who was driving to the south of France
earlier this month wound up going home on a tow truck because his radiator sprung
a leak and it dribbled much of his coolant overboard.   He failed to notice
the water temp increase, but the subsequent oil temp increase and Expensive
Noises from the engine got his attention!

Had he been paying attention and thought about the problem a little bit, he
could have easily had the car repaired and saved his vacation, since
apparently the engine is actually unhurt and was simply rattling a bit due to the
lifters not lifting as much due to the hot, thin oil.   As it is, since he's
not mechanically savvy he took the safe option and had the car towed back
to England.   But if he had an aluminum radiator, likely that would have been
his only recourse.

Just FWIW....

Mike
-------------- next part --------------
   Getting 2nd opinion today. This shop thinks it looks ok, just age on
   it, will do a $30 test, but seems pretty optimistic it's not a total
   re-do like the other shop. Crossing my fingers.

   He was surprised the other shop just made a diagnosis without a test,
   which tells me which shop to avoid.
     __________________________________________________________________

   From: Himes, Terry (397C) <terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov>
   Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2016 7:15 AM
   To: MikeLDrew at aol.com; klckmac at msn.com;
   detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system

   I agree with Mike.  I have my original radiator with new fans and it is
   still functioning
   perfectly.  <knock on wood>.  I'm no expert but it doesn't make sense
   to spend a ton
   of money.  I do have to pull some preventative maintenance on my 42
   year old radiator,
   but I'm not going to spend a lot to do it. That's my plan anyway.

   "A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan,

    stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!"

   Terry W. Himes

   JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory

   Dawn Spacecraft Team

   Rosetta Sequence Team Lead

   Phone: (818) 393-6261

   Cell:     (818) 653-8213

   Fax:     (818) 393-3147

   [1]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov

   From: DeTomaso <[2]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf
   of Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   Reply-To: "[4]MikeLDrew at aol.com" <[5]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
   Date: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 4:33 PM
   To: "[6]klckmac at msn.com" <[7]klckmac at msn.com>,
   "[8]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
   <[9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system
   In a message dated 7/26/16 8 41 31, [10]klckmac at msn.com writes:

   Looking for advice on the newer aluminum radiators and stainless tube

   sets offered out there. I just took my OLD Hall brass one in for
   repairs and

   they want $650 for a re-do. I could get a new one for that price, but
   would

   like to know who has upgraded to a turn key kit like PIM offers or
   other

   dealer and if you would recommend any particular setup.

   Ken,
   Lots of people are proposing a $1500 fix to a $200 problem.   For sure,
   that would work, but is it necessary?   No.
   The first thing you need to do is find another radiator shop.   The
   quote
   they gave you is absurd.   Likely they are proposing an entirely new
   core for
   your existing tanks, which amounts to buying a whole new radiator.   If
   your core is well and truly shot, then yes, you might as well just get
   a new
   radiator, but in that case I would just buy another one like you have
   now.
   By way of contrast to the megabucks suggestions, consider this:
   A few years ago, Wilkinson gave Lori an old Hall radiator for free.
   He
   had removed it from a customer's car when that guy 'upgraded' to a
   megabuck
   Fluidyne radiator and sucker fan setup.   Steve actually offered me the
   choice
   of several old radiators, and I took the best-looking one, knowing it
   needed work.
   I brought it to a radiator shop out in the country a half-hour from my
   house.   They pressure-tested it and found several leaks, from failures
   in the
   brazing around the drain petcock caused by overtightening, and from the
   junction of the core and one of the end tanks.
   They fixed all the leaks, pressure-tested it, painted it and gave it
   back
   to me, looking as good as new and guaranteed to work.
   For this, they charged me FORTY dollars.   Not $650, not anything
   close.
   That radiator, with Hall Meriah fans, keeps her car running at a
   rock-solid
   180 degrees in all conditions, including extended periods of idling in
   Las
   Vegas traffic with ambient temps nearing 100 degrees, and has been
   doing so
   now for years.
   Yes, you could spend a ton of money on an all-new setup.   But as long
   as
   your existing core is good (and why wouldn't it be?), you should be
   able to
   get minor leaks repaired easily for a fraction of the cost of buying a
   new
   Hall replacement radiator, never mind the megabuck setup.
   One tremendous advantage of a brass radiator (any brass radiator) is
   that
   it can normally be repaired easily if it suffers damage when you're on
   the
   road.   The aluminum radiators are glued together and normally not
   easily
   repaired--if they can be repaired at all.   So while Hall recently
   failed to
   warranty their product per Chuck's testimony, at least their product is
   infinitely repairable.
   A Mangusta owner from England who was driving to the south of France
   earlier this month wound up going home on a tow truck because his
   radiator sprung
   a leak and it dribbled much of his coolant overboard.   He failed to
   notice
   the water temp increase, but the subsequent oil temp increase and
   Expensive
   Noises from the engine got his attention!
   Had he been paying attention and thought about the problem a little
   bit, he
   could have easily had the car repaired and saved his vacation, since
   apparently the engine is actually unhurt and was simply rattling a bit
   due to the
   lifters not lifting as much due to the hot, thin oil.   As it is, since
   he's
   not mechanically savvy he took the safe option and had the car towed
   back
   to England.   But if he had an aluminum radiator, likely that would
   have been
   his only recourse.
   Just FWIW....
   Mike

References

   1. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
   2. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
   3. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   4. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
   5. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
   6. mailto:klckmac at msn.com
   7. mailto:klckmac at msn.com
   8. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   9. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  10. mailto:klckmac at msn.com


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