[DeTomaso] Windsor or Cleveland question..

[Timothy Meyer]

As a machine shop that specializes in Fords & especially in the Clevelands...here's my 2 cents.
I am personally not bias about either engine.
>From what I hear is many guys already have a bunch on Cleveland parts.
And to start over is tough.
We have made Clevors for people and many times some parts can be shared.

Depends on if you are a purist.

Many of you may have seen that we now own the new Cleveland block that Tod Buttermore originally designed.
The Cleveland market is growing all the time.
We have seen more heads available and intake manifolds.

Technically the Windsor block is wider, but with the heads, I can see it being narrower than the Cleveland.
Headers, oil pan, from accessories items Cleveland specific.	

Just a few thoughts.

Tim Meyer

TMeyer Inc
www.tmeyerinc.com


-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Cullen McCann
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2015 10:36 AM
To: DeTomaso Forum <detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: [DeTomaso] Windsor or Cleveland question..

Dear Forum,

I'm sure this question has been discussed more than once in the past, but I cant readily find it and have only been intermittently involved with the Pantera following over the years.

If I get my facts wrong, forgive me. Some is based on research and some based on perception.

351 Cleveland or Windsor?

I need to build a motor for my car anyway. I do not have the original engine or any engine for it at this time. I have had several 351w motors over the years. I understand the following criteria to be true. Both motors displace the same number, approximately, of cubic inches. Both have the same bellhousing bolt pattern. Both have the same motor mount locations.
The Windsor is slightly narrower, leaving theoretically more room for headers, fuel tanks, etc on either side. (?) length and height appear negligibly different.

The Windsor is lighter in pounds. According to a few online sources:

http://www.mustangsandmore.com/ubb/EngineDimensions.html

....the Windsor  appears to be about 25 lbs lighter, depending on source and configuration. Not a huge benefit, but certainly not a drawback . The aftermarket support for Windsor family engines appears significantly larger... every 289-302-351w cylinder head is an option. Many different manufacturers and models from Trickflow, Brodix, AFR, Ford motorsport, Edelbrock etc are to choose from. I know of 600-plus streetable horsepower motors in both. I have a Windsor with similar performance numbers in my Cobra Replica. It was not hard to make 550 horse in the Windsor and parts were very easy to get through and through.

My perception is that the Cleveland motor aftermarket support is much narrower, much more limited in choices for heads, intakes availability of good blocks, etc. Factory accessories, exhaust systems etc are of no concern to me.

So...the obvious forthcoming question...if originality wasn't a driving concern...why go Cleveland?? Whats the motivation other than purity? I find that a majority of Pantera enthusiasts aren't purists anyway. Are their other fitment concerns I'm not aware of?

Thanks for your thoughts..

Cullen

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