[DeTomaso] Techno question: a fine mess--update

Sun Oct 11 16:07:05 EDT 2015

Dear Bud,

                 It does use a mechanical fuel pump and an OEM eccentric.  The cam shaft is aftermarket and does not use a thrust bearing in front of the cam shaft.  

                 I went all through the front of the engine during last year’s rebuild.  It probably has only about two thousand miles on it since the rebuild just before the Houston Rally.  I am pretty sure the front is OK.  I listened more that once to the front engine plate and all was quiet.

                I will road test it next Saturday on a trip.

                                          Warmest regards, Chuck Engles

From: B Hower [mailto:b.hower3400 at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2015 1:29 PM
To: Charles Engles; 'Julian Kift'; 'De Tomaso List'
Cc: 'Asa Jay Laughton'; MikeLDrew at aol.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: a fine mess--update

Dear Dr,

I'm going to jump outside the box here. Do you run a mechanical fuel pump? Then if so, do you use an OEM eccentric to operate pump lever?  Next do you use any type of aftermarket thrust bearing at front of cam shaft? Or a non OEM pin to couple cam to cam gear? Could the cam gear mounting bolt be loose? I am trying to think if any noise from things above could be transmitted to the crankshaft?

Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be ! )

  _____  

From: Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net>
To: 'Julian Kift' <julian_kift at hotmail.com>; 'De Tomaso List' <detomaso at poca.com> 
Cc: 'Asa Jay Laughton' <asajay at asajay.com>; 'B Hower' <b.hower3400 at yahoo.com>; MikeLDrew at aol.com 
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2015 8:50 AM
Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Techno question: a fine mess--update

Dear Long Distance Mechanics,

                   This morning the test drive without the AC belt is first.    If the noise persists, then I while the engine is warm, which is when the noise most commonly occurs, then the alternator belt comes off.

                    I failed to mention that the mechanical and garden hose stethoscopes both reveal essentially silent water pump, alternator body, AC compressor and block.

                                          Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles

From: Julian Kift [mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com] 
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 8:36 PM
To: Charles Engles; De Tomaso List
Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Techno question: a fine mess--update

Charles,

Have you systematically removed one belt at a time and run the engine, to narrow down the source?

Julian

> From: cengles at cox.net
> To: detomaso at poca.com
> Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 20:30:23 -0500
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: a fine mess--update
> 
> Dear Forum,
> 
> 
> It is still a fine mess. The gremlins are well entrenched. At
> this point, I have:
> 
> 1) ascertained that the balancer isn't hitting the block or pan
> 
> 2) been unable to localize precisely the noise source despite the mechanic's
> stethoscope or the garden hose stethoscope (it actually works a little
> better in this instance, but still not a success). It is coming from the
> front of the engine-belt area.
> 
> 3) replaced the alternator: no change and now the ammeter needle bounces
> 
> 4) ascertained that I do have an electronic voltage regulator from
> Motorcraft
> 
> 5) replaced both belts: no change other than a slight decrease in loudness
> and slightly different quality to the noise
> 
> 6) replaced the idler pulley: no change. Sigh. The old pulley does feel
> like the bearing is starting to go out compared to the smoothness of the
> replacement, but still no noise silencing with the change.
> 
> 
> I am perturbed. I have removed the new AC belt and I will test
> again tomorrow to see if I have finally localized the noise maker. I am
> thinking about trying some of the belt treatments for squeaking since I have
> replaced *everything* at this point.
> 
> 
> With apologies to Mr. Friedman's famous quote: " Sadder, older,
> wiser, I go now, seeking through faith and reason combined the answer to
> this baffling pageant which is the Pantera and the small by play, which is
> my amateur wrenching." 
> 
> 
> Philosophically yours, Chuck Engles
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
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-------------- next part --------------
   Dear Bud,

                    It does use a mechanical fuel pump and an OEM
   eccentric.  The cam shaft is aftermarket and does not use a thrust
   bearing in front of the cam shaft.

                    I went all through the front of the engine during last
   year's rebuild.  It probably has only about two thousand miles on it
   since the rebuild just before the Houston Rally.  I am pretty sure the
   front is OK.  I listened more that once to the front engine plate and
   all was quiet.

                   I will road test it next Saturday on a trip.

                                             Warmest regards, Chuck Engles

   From: B Hower [mailto:b.hower3400 at yahoo.com]
   Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2015 1:29 PM
   To: Charles Engles; 'Julian Kift'; 'De Tomaso List'
   Cc: 'Asa Jay Laughton'; MikeLDrew at aol.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: a fine mess--update

   Dear Dr,

   I'm going to jump outside the box here. Do you run a mechanical fuel
   pump? Then if so, do you use an OEM eccentric to operate pump lever?
   Next do you use any type of aftermarket thrust bearing at front of cam
   shaft? Or a non OEM pin to couple cam to cam gear? Could the cam gear
   mounting bolt be loose? I am trying to think if any noise from things
   above could be transmitted to the crankshaft?

   Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be
   ! )

   _______________________________________________________________________

   From: Charles Engles <[1]cengles at cox.net>
   To: 'Julian Kift' <[2]julian_kift at hotmail.com>; 'De Tomaso List'
   <[3]detomaso at poca.com>
   Cc: 'Asa Jay Laughton' <[4]asajay at asajay.com>; 'B Hower'
   <[5]b.hower3400 at yahoo.com>; [6]MikeLDrew at aol.com
   Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2015 8:50 AM
   Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Techno question: a fine mess--update

   Dear Long Distance Mechanics,

                      This morning the test drive without the AC belt is
   first.    If the noise persists, then I while the engine is warm, which
   is when the noise most commonly occurs, then the alternator belt comes
   off.

                       I failed to mention that the mechanical and garden
   hose stethoscopes both reveal essentially silent water pump, alternator
   body, AC compressor and block.

                                             Warmest regards,  Chuck
   Engles

   From: Julian Kift [[7]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com]
   Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 8:36 PM
   To: Charles Engles; De Tomaso List
   Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Techno question: a fine mess--update

   Charles,

   Have you systematically removed one belt at a time and run the engine,
   to narrow down the source?

   Julian

   > From: [8]cengles at cox.net
   > To: [9]detomaso at poca.com
   > Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 20:30:23 -0500
   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: a fine mess--update
   >
   > Dear Forum,
   >
   >
   > It is still a fine mess. The gremlins are well entrenched. At
   > this point, I have:
   >
   > 1) ascertained that the balancer isn't hitting the block or pan
   >
   > 2) been unable to localize precisely the noise source despite the
   mechanic's
   > stethoscope or the garden hose stethoscope (it actually works a
   little
   > better in this instance, but still not a success). It is coming from
   the
   > front of the engine-belt area.
   >
   > 3) replaced the alternator: no change and now the ammeter needle
   bounces
   >
   > 4) ascertained that I do have an electronic voltage regulator from
   > Motorcraft
   >
   > 5) replaced both belts: no change other than a slight decrease in
   loudness
   > and slightly different quality to the noise
   >
   > 6) replaced the idler pulley: no change. Sigh. The old pulley does
   feel
   > like the bearing is starting to go out compared to the smoothness of
   the
   > replacement, but still no noise silencing with the change.
   >
   >
   > I am perturbed. I have removed the new AC belt and I will test
   > again tomorrow to see if I have finally localized the noise maker. I
   am
   > thinking about trying some of the belt treatments for squeaking since
   I have
   > replaced *everything* at this point.
   >
   >
   > With apologies to Mr. Friedman's famous quote: " Sadder, older,
   > wiser, I go now, seeking through faith and reason combined the answer
   to
   > this baffling pageant which is the Pantera and the small by play,
   which is
   > my amateur wrenching."
   >
   >
   > Philosophically yours, Chuck Engles
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   > _______________________________________________
   >
   > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   > DeTomaso mailing list
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   > [11]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   >
   > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   use the links above.

References

   1. mailto:cengles at cox.net
   2. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
   3. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
   4. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
   5. mailto:b.hower3400 at yahoo.com
   6. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
   7. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
   8. mailto:cengles at cox.net
   9. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  10. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  11. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com