[DeTomaso] NPC - Machine Shop Practices
Sean Korb
spkorb at gmail.com
Wed Nov 11 14:07:30 EST 2015
I was going to try this myself, if I ever got a hold of one of those
tire/wheel bubble balancers. Put a flywheel of known balance on the
balancer and check the weight needed to make it balance. As Dan said, if I
had 28.2oz and I put it precisely an inch opposite, the bubble would
center. I think what I wanted to see was if I put a harmonic balancer on
top of a flywheel on center, the weights should balance when 180 degrees
away from each other.
And I completely forgot why I wanted to try this... it was really important
to me 10 years ago or so.
sean
On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 9:39 AM, Daniel C Jones <daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com>
wrote:
> A
> A No.A It's a balance factor with the units of oz-in and is the
> product of a mass and a distance (radially away from the crank
> centerline).A Also, it's 28.2 oz-in at each end.A When someone says
> my flywheel balance is 28 ounces it sounds as moronic as saying I have
> 450 feet of torque :-)
> A
> A Dan Jones
>
> On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 8:01 AM, Sean Korb <[1]spkorb at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> A A Always wanted to know, but was afraid to ask... and this seems
> like the
> A A place to do it:
> A A If my motor is 28oz external balance, is that 14 at the
> harmonic
> A A balancer and 14 at the flywheel?AA Could you put all 28 on one
> end or
> A A is that a "bad thing"?AA Asking for a friend ;)
> A A sean
> A A On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 6:51 AM, JEFFREY COBB
> <[1][2]jeffcobb1 at me.com>
> A A wrote:
> A A A GD, you are correct that machining a block and crank based
> on known
> A A A piston and big end size is the best and most intelligent way
> to
> A A A create a tight fast and secure short block.
> A A A AA A So it appears that the margin of error needs to be in
> place so
> A A A as to support the reality of new bearings and cranks having
> a
> A A A tolerance variation which as Tim says, stacks up to your end
> A A A clearance and production run variances, I agree to that.
> A A A Of course it is better to machine a crank and block to its
> recip
> A A A parts; pistons and big ends.
> A A A AA A Though that creates a problem later on if rework
> without
> A A A machining is done and diff brand parts are used that will
> then
> A A A damage your initial perfect job clearance results, now too
> loose or
> A A A tight.
> A A A AA I have found with our matchining that the clearances
> made no real
> A A A difference unless it was on a Benz turbo diesel or a high
> output
> A A A high rpm engine. The oil pump, oil and block temperature
> tends to
> A A A cover different clearance issues until you stress it out and
> the
> A A A ugly knock or bang changes your day.
> A A A AA A So in closing, we always machine our block and crank
> according
> A A A to known static size values because we care about this
> engine today
> A A A not a run of production engines tomorrow.
> A A A AA A And the best of clearance jobs will always be
> destroyed by a
> A A A not perfect balance of reciprocating mass. Balance is
> critical,
> A A A maybe more than clearances.
> A A A AA A Static neutral balance is the first and only step way
> to go if
> A A A then the rotating mass is spun to check out its dynamic
> secondary
> A A A harmonic balance results. Which can then be fine tuned.
> A A A Now your have proper dynamic balance spinning in its own
> correct
> A A A clearances. She will last a long time.
> A A A Bad harmonics, just like how an off key tenor will kill a
> Pucinni
> A A A opera, will also kill a fine engine.
> A A A Take care,
> A A A Jeff Cobb- I pad
> A A A W-[2]225-343-7525
> A A A C-[3]225-907-4514
> A A A Jeff Cobb Auto Works
> A A A 1316 S. Acadian Thruway
> A A A Baton Rouge, La.
> A A A 70806
> A A A [4][3]www.LiveOakConcours.org
> A A On Nov 10, 2015, at 9:51 PM, [5][4]fordmachinist at gmail.com
> wrote:
> A A > We will grind a crankshaft at time with the bearings
> installed in the
> A A block and the rods. There are time we see tolerance stack.
> A A > But true, most shops will grind a shaft according to the spec
> size.
> A A Typically +/- .0004"
> A A > Performance may favor the low end of spec. But see do see
> that many
> A A aftermarket cranks are not that great.
> A A > Start miking the bearings. That starts to get scary. we will
> find
> A A .0002-.0004 difference in brands.
> A A >
> A A > I worked for a production builder, and I bored blocks all
> day.
> A A > Didn't have any pistons in my hand. Just bored it to a
> nominal size
> A A plus maybe .0005" and that was it. Never saw an issue.
> A A >
> A A > Neutral balance does not require balancer or flywheel. All
> the weight
> A A is on the inside.
> A A > If the engine was a neutral balance design, you would balance
> the
> A A rotating assy first, then add the flywheel and balancer. If it
> is
> A A neutral balance, the balancer and flywheel could be balanced
> all by
> A A them self also.
> A A >
> A A > Tim Meyer
> A A > TMeyer Inc.
> A A > [6][5]www.tmeyerinc.com
> A A >
> A A > Sent from my iPad
> A A >
> A A >> On Nov 10, 2015, at 8:04 PM, Guido deTomaso
> A A <[7][6]guido_detomaso at prodigy.net> wrote:
> A A >>
> A A >>AA Not sure why this is on my mind today, but:
> A A >>AA It's common in my experience to provide a piston when a
> cylinder
> A A is
> A A >>AA bored, so the bore provides a known clearance to that
> piston.
> A A >>AA Does anyone do this with crankshafts, use the actual
> connecting
> A A rod
> A A >>AA bearing ID and turn the crank to match?AA By the time
> you get out
> A A the
> A A >>AA plastigage, it's too late if the clearance isn't what you
> A A wanted.AA But
> A A >>AA I've never heard of anyone doing anything with a
> crankshaft other
> A A than
> A A >>AA turn it down to some arbitrary diameter.
> A A >>AA Similarly, from what I've observed on YouTube, it ought
> to be
> A A >>AA technically possible to balance a crankshaft alone, then
> add
> A A flywheel
> A A >>AA and balance it, then the pressure plate, then the
> harmonic
> A A balancer.
> A A >>AA This would make all those bolt-on items "neutrally
> balanced" and
> A A they
> A A >>AA could be replaced or swapped from engine to engine.
> A A >>AA What I suspect usually happens instead is, all the parts
> are
> A A bolted
> A A >>AA together and balanced in one shot, making a set which
> cannot be
> A A broken
> A A >>AA without upsetting the achieved balance.
> A A >>AA So, if I asked that a crank be turned to match the rod
> bearings,
> A A or
> A A >>AA that the bottom end NOT be turned into a matched set, am
> I likely
> A A to be
> A A >>AA shown the door?
> A A >>AA Thanks,
> A A >>AA GD
> A A >> _______________________________________________
> A A >>
> A A >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> A A >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> A A >> DeTomaso mailing list
> A A >> [8][7]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A A >> [9][8]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> A A >>
> A A >> To manage your subscription (change email address,
> unsubscribe,
> A A etc.) use the links above.
> A A >
> A A > _______________________________________________
> A A >
> A A > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> A A > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> A A > DeTomaso mailing list
> A A > [10][9]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A A > [11][10]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> A A >
> A A > To manage your subscription (change email address,
> unsubscribe, etc.)
> A A use the links above.
> A A _______________________________________________
> A A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> A A Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> A A DeTomaso mailing list
> A A [12][11]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A A [13][12]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> A A To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> etc.)
> A A use the links above.
> A A --
> A A Sean Korb [14][13]spkorb at spkorb.org
> [15][14]http://www.spkorb.org
> A A '65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71
> Pantera
> A A #1382
> A A "The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
> A A "Computers are useless.AA They can only give you answers." -P.
> Picasso
> References
> A A 1. mailto:[15]jeffcobb1 at me.com
> A A 2. tel:225-343-7525
> A A 3. tel:225-907-4514
> A A 4. [16]http://www.LiveOakConcours.org/
> A A 5. mailto:[17]fordmachinist at gmail.com
> A A 6. [18]http://www.tmeyerinc.com/
> A A 7. mailto:[19]guido_detomaso at prodigy.net
> A A 8. mailto:[20]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A A 9. [21]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> A 10. mailto:[22]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A 11. [23]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> A 12. mailto:[24]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A 13. [25]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> A 14. mailto:[26]spkorb at spkorb.org
> A 15. [27]http://www.spkorb.org/
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [28]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [29]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> etc.) use the links above.
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
> 2. mailto:jeffcobb1 at me.com
> 3. http://www.LiveOakConcours.org/
> 4. mailto:fordmachinist at gmail.com
> 5. http://www.tmeyerinc.com/
> 6. mailto:guido_detomaso at prodigy.net
> 7. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 8. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 9. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 10. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 11. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 12. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 13. mailto:spkorb at spkorb.org
> 14. http://www.spkorb.org/
> 15. mailto:jeffcobb1 at me.com
> 16. http://www.LiveOakConcours.org/
> 17. mailto:fordmachinist at gmail.com
> 18. http://www.tmeyerinc.com/
> 19. mailto:guido_detomaso at prodigy.net
> 20. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 21. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 22. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 23. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 24. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 25. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 26. mailto:spkorb at spkorb.org
> 27. http://www.spkorb.org/
> 28. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 29. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
> the links above.
>
>
--
Sean Korb spkorb at spkorb.org http://www.spkorb.org
'65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
-------------- next part --------------
I was going to try this myself, if I ever got a hold of one of those
tire/wheel bubble balancers.A Put a flywheel of known balance on the
balancer and check the weight needed to make it balance.A As Dan said,
if I had 28.2oz and I put it precisely an inch opposite, the bubble
would center.A I think what I wanted to see was if I put a harmonic
balancer on top of a flywheel on center, the weights should balance
when 180 degrees away from each other.
And I completely forgot why I wanted to try this... it was really
important to me 10 years ago or so.
sean
On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 9:39 AM, Daniel C Jones
<[1]daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com> wrote:
A A A
A A A No.AA It's a balance factor with the units of oz-in and is
the
A A product of a mass and a distance (radially away from the crank
A A centerline).AA Also, it's 28.2 oz-in at each end.AA When
someone says
A A my flywheel balance is 28 ounces it sounds as moronic as saying
I have
A A 450 feet of torque :-)
A A A
A A A Dan Jones
A A On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 8:01 AM, Sean Korb
<[1][2]spkorb at gmail.com> wrote:
A A A AA A Always wanted to know, but was afraid to ask... and
this seems
A A A like the
A A A AA A place to do it:
A A A AA A If my motor is 28oz external balance, is that 14 at
the
A A A harmonic
A A A AA A balancer and 14 at the flywheel?AAA Could you put all
28 on one
A A A end or
A A A AA A is that a "bad thing"?AAA Asking for a friend ;)
A A A AA A sean
A A A AA A On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 6:51 AM, JEFFREY COBB
A A A <[1][2][3]jeffcobb1 at me.com>
A A A AA A wrote:
A A A AA AA A GD, you are correct that machining a block and
crank based
A A A on known
A A A AA AA A piston and big end size is the best and most
intelligent way
A A A to
A A A AA AA A create a tight fast and secure short block.
A A A AA AA A AAA A So it appears that the margin of error
needs to be in
A A A place so
A A A AA AA A as to support the reality of new bearings and
cranks having
A A A a
A A A AA AA A tolerance variation which as Tim says, stacks up
to your end
A A A AA AA A clearance and production run variances, I agree to
that.
A A A AA AA A Of course it is better to machine a crank and
block to its
A A A recip
A A A AA AA A parts; pistons and big ends.
A A A AA AA A AAA A Though that creates a problem later on if
rework
A A A without
A A A AA AA A machining is done and diff brand parts are used
that will
A A A then
A A A AA AA A damage your initial perfect job clearance results,
now too
A A A loose or
A A A AA AA A tight.
A A A AA AA A AAA I have found with our matchining that the
clearances
A A A made no real
A A A AA AA A difference unless it was on a Benz turbo diesel or
a high
A A A output
A A A AA AA A high rpm engine. The oil pump, oil and block
temperature
A A A tends to
A A A AA AA A cover different clearance issues until you stress
it out and
A A A the
A A A AA AA A ugly knock or bang changes your day.
A A A AA AA A AAA A So in closing, we always machine our block
and crank
A A A according
A A A AA AA A to known static size values because we care about
this
A A A engine today
A A A AA AA A not a run of production engines tomorrow.
A A A AA AA A AAA A And the best of clearance jobs will always
be
A A A destroyed by a
A A A AA AA A not perfect balance of reciprocating mass. Balance
is
A A A critical,
A A A AA AA A maybe more than clearances.
A A A AA AA A AAA A Static neutral balance is the first and
only step way
A A A to go if
A A A AA AA A then the rotating mass is spun to check out its
dynamic
A A A secondary
A A A AA AA A harmonic balance results. Which can then be fine
tuned.
A A A AA AA A Now your have proper dynamic balance spinning in
its own
A A A correct
A A A AA AA A clearances. She will last a long time.
A A A AA AA A Bad harmonics, just like how an off key tenor will
kill a
A A A Pucinni
A A A AA AA A opera, will also kill a fine engine.
A A A AA AA A Take care,
A A A AA AA A Jeff Cobb- I pad
A A A AA AA A W-[2]225-343-7525
A A A AA AA A C-[3]225-907-4514
A A A AA AA A Jeff Cobb Auto Works
A A A AA AA A 1316 S. Acadian Thruway
A A A AA AA A Baton Rouge, La.
A A A AA AA A 70806
A A A AA AA A [4][3][4]www.LiveOakConcours.org
A A A AA A On Nov 10, 2015, at 9:51 PM,
[5][4][5]fordmachinist at gmail.com
A A A wrote:
A A A AA A > We will grind a crankshaft at time with the bearings
A A A installed in the
A A A AA A block and the rods. There are time we see tolerance
stack.
A A A AA A > But true, most shops will grind a shaft according to
the spec
A A A size.
A A A AA A Typically +/- .0004"
A A A AA A > Performance may favor the low end of spec. But see
do see
A A A that many
A A A AA A aftermarket cranks are not that great.
A A A AA A > Start miking the bearings. That starts to get scary.
we will
A A A find
A A A AA A .0002-.0004 difference in brands.
A A A AA A >
A A A AA A > I worked for a production builder, and I bored
blocks all
A A A day.
A A A AA A > Didn't have any pistons in my hand. Just bored it to
a
A A A nominal size
A A A AA A plus maybe .0005" and that was it. Never saw an issue.
A A A AA A >
A A A AA A > Neutral balance does not require balancer or
flywheel. All
A A A the weight
A A A AA A is on the inside.
A A A AA A > If the engine was a neutral balance design, you
would balance
A A A the
A A A AA A rotating assy first, then add the flywheel and
balancer. If it
A A A is
A A A AA A neutral balance, the balancer and flywheel could be
balanced
A A A all by
A A A AA A them self also.
A A A AA A >
A A A AA A > Tim Meyer
A A A AA A > TMeyer Inc.
A A A AA A > [6][5][6]www.tmeyerinc.com
A A A AA A >
A A A AA A > Sent from my iPad
A A A AA A >
A A A AA A >> On Nov 10, 2015, at 8:04 PM, Guido deTomaso
A A A AA A <[7][6][7]guido_detomaso at prodigy.net> wrote:
A A A AA A >>
A A A AA A >>AAA Not sure why this is on my mind today, but:
A A A AA A >>AAA It's common in my experience to provide a
piston when a
A A A cylinder
A A A AA A is
A A A AA A >>AAA bored, so the bore provides a known clearance
to that
A A A piston.
A A A AA A >>AAA Does anyone do this with crankshafts, use the
actual
A A A connecting
A A A AA A rod
A A A AA A >>AAA bearing ID and turn the crank to match?AAA By
the time
A A A you get out
A A A AA A the
A A A AA A >>AAA plastigage, it's too late if the clearance
isn't what you
A A A AA A wanted.AAA But
A A A AA A >>AAA I've never heard of anyone doing anything with
a
A A A crankshaft other
A A A AA A than
A A A AA A >>AAA turn it down to some arbitrary diameter.
A A A AA A >>AAA Similarly, from what I've observed on YouTube,
it ought
A A A to be
A A A AA A >>AAA technically possible to balance a crankshaft
alone, then
A A A add
A A A AA A flywheel
A A A AA A >>AAA and balance it, then the pressure plate, then
the
A A A harmonic
A A A AA A balancer.
A A A AA A >>AAA This would make all those bolt-on items
"neutrally
A A A balanced" and
A A A AA A they
A A A AA A >>AAA could be replaced or swapped from engine to
engine.
A A A AA A >>AAA What I suspect usually happens instead is, all
the parts
A A A are
A A A AA A bolted
A A A AA A >>AAA together and balanced in one shot, making a set
which
A A A cannot be
A A A AA A broken
A A A AA A >>AAA without upsetting the achieved balance.
A A A AA A >>AAA So, if I asked that a crank be turned to match
the rod
A A A bearings,
A A A AA A or
A A A AA A >>AAA that the bottom end NOT be turned into a
matched set, am
A A A I likely
A A A AA A to be
A A A AA A >>AAA shown the door?
A A A AA A >>AAA Thanks,
A A A AA A >>AAA GD
A A A AA A >> _______________________________________________
A A A AA A >>
A A A AA A >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
A A A AA A >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
A A A AA A >> DeTomaso mailing list
A A A AA A >> [8][7][8]DeTomaso at poca.com
A A A AA A >>
[9][8][9]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A A A AA A >>
A A A AA A >> To manage your subscription (change email address,
A A A unsubscribe,
A A A AA A etc.) use the links above.
A A A AA A >
A A A AA A > _______________________________________________
A A A AA A >
A A A AA A > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
A A A AA A > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
A A A AA A > DeTomaso mailing list
A A A AA A > [10][9][10]DeTomaso at poca.com
A A A AA A >
[11][10][11]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A A A AA A >
A A A AA A > To manage your subscription (change email address,
A A A unsubscribe, etc.)
A A A AA A use the links above.
A A A AA A _______________________________________________
A A A AA A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
A A A AA A Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
A A A AA A DeTomaso mailing list
A A A AA A [12][11][12]DeTomaso at poca.com
A A A AA A
[13][12][13]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A A A AA A To manage your subscription (change email address,
unsubscribe,
A A A etc.)
A A A AA A use the links above.
A A A AA A --
A A A AA A Sean Korb [14][13][14]spkorb at spkorb.org
A A A [15][14][15]http://www.spkorb.org
A A A AA A '65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59
A35,'71
A A A Pantera
A A A AA A #1382
A A A AA A "The more you drive, the less intelligent you get"
--Miller
A A A AA A "Computers are useless.AAA They can only give you
answers." -P.
A A A Picasso
A A A References
A A A AA A 1. mailto:[15][16]jeffcobb1 at me.com
A A A AA A 2. tel:[17]225-343-7525
A A A AA A 3. tel:[18]225-907-4514
A A A AA A 4. [16][19]http://www.LiveOakConcours.org/
A A A AA A 5. mailto:[17][20]fordmachinist at gmail.com
A A A AA A 6. [18][21]http://www.tmeyerinc.com/
A A A AA A 7. mailto:[19][22]guido_detomaso at prodigy.net
A A A AA A 8. mailto:[20][23]DeTomaso at poca.com
A A A AA A 9.
[21][24]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A A A AA 10. mailto:[22][25]DeTomaso at poca.com
A A A AA 11.
[23][26]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A A A AA 12. mailto:[24][27]DeTomaso at poca.com
A A A AA 13.
[25][28]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A A A AA 14. mailto:[26][29]spkorb at spkorb.org
A A A AA 15. [27][30]http://www.spkorb.org/
A A A _______________________________________________
A A A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
A A A Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
A A A DeTomaso mailing list
A A A [28][31]DeTomaso at poca.com
A A A [29][32]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A A A To manage your subscription (change email address,
unsubscribe,
A A A etc.) use the links above.
References
A A 1. mailto:[33]spkorb at gmail.com
A A 2. mailto:[34]jeffcobb1 at me.com
A A 3. [35]http://www.LiveOakConcours.org/
A A 4. mailto:[36]fordmachinist at gmail.com
A A 5. [37]http://www.tmeyerinc.com/
A A 6. mailto:[38]guido_detomaso at prodigy.net
A A 7. mailto:[39]DeTomaso at poca.com
A A 8. [40]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A A 9. mailto:[41]DeTomaso at poca.com
A 10. [42]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A 11. mailto:[43]DeTomaso at poca.com
A 12. [44]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A 13. mailto:[45]spkorb at spkorb.org
A 14. [46]http://www.spkorb.org/
A 15. mailto:[47]jeffcobb1 at me.com
A 16. [48]http://www.LiveOakConcours.org/
A 17. mailto:[49]fordmachinist at gmail.com
A 18. [50]http://www.tmeyerinc.com/
A 19. mailto:[51]guido_detomaso at prodigy.net
A 20. mailto:[52]DeTomaso at poca.com
A 21. [53]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A 22. mailto:[54]DeTomaso at poca.com
A 23. [55]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A 24. mailto:[56]DeTomaso at poca.com
A 25. [57]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A 26. mailto:[58]spkorb at spkorb.org
A 27. [59]http://www.spkorb.org/
A 28. mailto:[60]DeTomaso at poca.com
A 29. [61]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[62]DeTomaso at poca.com
[63]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.) use the links above.
--
Sean Korb [64]spkorb at spkorb.org [65]http://www.spkorb.org
'65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera
#1382
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
"Computers are useless.A They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
References
1. mailto:daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com
2. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
3. mailto:jeffcobb1 at me.com
4. http://www.LiveOakConcours.org/
5. mailto:fordmachinist at gmail.com
6. http://www.tmeyerinc.com/
7. mailto:guido_detomaso at prodigy.net
8. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
9. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
10. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
11. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
12. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
13. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
14. mailto:spkorb at spkorb.org
15. http://www.spkorb.org/
16. mailto:jeffcobb1 at me.com
17. tel:225-343-7525
18. tel:225-907-4514
19. http://www.LiveOakConcours.org/
20. mailto:fordmachinist at gmail.com
21. http://www.tmeyerinc.com/
22. mailto:guido_detomaso at prodigy.net
23. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
24. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
25. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
26. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
27. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
28. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
29. mailto:spkorb at spkorb.org
30. http://www.spkorb.org/
31. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
32. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
33. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
34. mailto:jeffcobb1 at me.com
35. http://www.LiveOakConcours.org/
36. mailto:fordmachinist at gmail.com
37. http://www.tmeyerinc.com/
38. mailto:guido_detomaso at prodigy.net
39. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
40. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
41. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
42. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
43. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
44. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
45. mailto:spkorb at spkorb.org
46. http://www.spkorb.org/
47. mailto:jeffcobb1 at me.com
48. http://www.LiveOakConcours.org/
49. mailto:fordmachinist at gmail.com
50. http://www.tmeyerinc.com/
51. mailto:guido_detomaso at prodigy.net
52. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
53. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
54. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
55. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
56. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
57. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
58. mailto:spkorb at spkorb.org
59. http://www.spkorb.org/
60. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
61. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
62. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
63. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
64. mailto:spkorb at spkorb.org
65. http://www.spkorb.org/
More information about the DeTomaso
mailing list