[DeTomaso] Adding sucker fans

Rob Dumoulin rob at dumoulins.net
Sun Jul 5 21:05:33 EDT 2015 

I'd say assurance. It is brutally hot here and I want all the assurance if
I am about to spring for a hot motor.
On Jul 5, 2015 8:54 PM, "Julian Kift" <julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Mike,
>
> You are normally a man of rational thinking and explanation, so please
> explain to me what advantage the sequential fans offer? The cooling system
> is governed by a single thermostat, so what is the advantage of a fan
> coming on at a temperature below that of the t-stat?
>
> Julian
>
> Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2015 20:35:25 -0400
> To: rob at dumoulins.net
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Adding sucker fans
> From: detomaso at poca.com
> CC: DeTomaso at poca.com
>
>
> In a message dated 7/5/15 16 14 24, rob at dumoulins.net writes:
>
>
> >
> > The reason I want to lay it forward is to get some modern fans on it.
> >
> >>>That is definitely a good idea!   But one does not need to lay the
> radiator forward to fit modern fans--either pushers or suckers.
>
> > >I believe my radiator is a Hall unit from many years back.
> >
> >>>That is a very good thing indeed.   Hall brass radiators are fantastic
> (their stock replacement unit, this one:
> http://hallpantera.com/cgi-bin/p/awtp-product.cgi?d=hallpantera-inc&item=20270)
>
>
> >  >It has both a top and bottom sensor, though only the top is wired.
> >
> >>>Why wouldn't you wire the fans to come on sequentially, as originally
> designed?
>
> Hall used to supply their radiator with two different temperature switches,
> again, as per the originals.   Lately they have been selling them with the
> same temp in both holes, which doesn't seem very smart to me.   Since
> switches are available anywhere in a variety of temps, and are cheap as chips
> (under $25 each), there's no reason not to have two different temps and have the
> second fan only come on as needed.
>
>
> > >The car does get warm in traffic in the Florida heat and my plans are to
> > rebuild the stock motor up to 500 hp. The original fans are pitifully bad.
> >
> >
> >>>Oh yes, the stock fans are pretty lame.   Nobody is advocating sticking
> with those!
>
> > >I cannot imagine my current setup is up to it. Since I have yet to ever
> > pull it out, I am preparing for a little cleanup.
> >  I considered getting pusher fans instead which would be much easier, but
> > I also do not care for the tight fitment between the radiator and headlight
> > switches/motor that would make that area much more accessible.
> >
> >>>Well, think about that statement for a moment.
>
> Think about the amount of work that would be required to enable you to
> change your cooling system around to access those components from above.   It's
> a LOT of work.   How often does anybody really need to access those
> components?  Perhaps once in a car's lifetime.   I suggest taking the radiator out,
> then pulling the headlight drive mechanism, installing a brass gear if there
> isn't one already there, lubing everything up and putting it all back
> together.
>
> There, done for the next 40 years.   If, by chance, you suffered a failure
> of a fan limit switch, with a stock setup with pusher fans, in the worst
> case you would have to remove the fans (takes five minutes), unbolt the
> radiator and lean it forward slightly to get the limit switch out.   If it concerns
> you that much, why not just install a new one right now?   That would then
> be the final time you would ever need to access that area.
>
> Really, I think you are overthinking things quite a bit, creating a LOT of
> work (and proposing to spend a lot of money) to prepare for a contingency
> that would likely never come up, and virtually 100% guaranteed would never
> come up if you just did a little preventative maintenance right now.
>
> I say, get yourself some Hall pusher fans, install them with the requisite
> mods that you would use with any new fans (grounding them locally through
> diodes, and improve the current path by stringing new wires from aux fuses
> through new relays), and then live happily ever after.
>
> While new Hall fans are expensive:
>
> http://hallpantera.com/cgi-bin/p/awtp-product.cgi?d=hallpantera-inc&
> item=20271
>
> They are readily available used, either from people here who have
> 'upgraded' to a sucker fan configuration, or even from Pantera vendors who have sold
> new cooling packages and took the old fans in as a partial payment.   FWIW
> Lori's Hall radiator came to us as a gift from Wilkinson (it was leaking, and
> needed $40 of repairs), and he sold her Hall fans for under $100 for the
> pair.   Both have since been put to great use, and her car runs at 180 degrees
> all day long, just like mine.....
>
> Good luck!
>
> Mike
>
>
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>
-------------- next part --------------
   I'd say assurance. It is brutally hot here and I want all the assurance
   if I am about to spring for a hot motor.

   On Jul 5, 2015 8:54 PM, "Julian Kift" <[1]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
   wrote:

   Mike,
   You are normally a man of rational thinking and explanation, so please
   explain to me what advantage the sequential fans offer? The cooling
   system is governed by a single thermostat, so what is the advantage of
   a fan coming on at a temperature below that of the t-stat?
   Julian
   Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2015 20:35:25 -0400
   To: [2]rob at dumoulins.net
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Adding sucker fans
   From: [3]detomaso at poca.com
   CC: [4]DeTomaso at poca.com

In a message dated 7/5/15 16 14 24, [5]rob at dumoulins.net writes:


>
> The reason I want to lay it forward is to get some modern fans on it.
>
>>>That is definitely a good idea!   But one does not need to lay the
radiator forward to fit modern fans--either pushers or suckers.

> >I believe my radiator is a Hall unit from many years back.
>
>>>That is a very good thing indeed.   Hall brass radiators are fantastic
(their stock replacement unit, this one:
[6]http://hallpantera.com/cgi-bin/p/awtp-product.cgi?d=hallpantera-inc&item=2027
0)


>  >It has both a top and bottom sensor, though only the top is wired.
>
>>>Why wouldn't you wire the fans to come on sequentially, as originally
designed?

Hall used to supply their radiator with two different temperature switches,
again, as per the originals.   Lately they have been selling them with the
same temp in both holes, which doesn't seem very smart to me.   Since
switches are available anywhere in a variety of temps, and are cheap as chips
(under $25 each), there's no reason not to have two different temps and have the

second fan only come on as needed.


> >The car does get warm in traffic in the Florida heat and my plans are to
> rebuild the stock motor up to 500 hp. The original fans are pitifully bad.
>
>
>>>Oh yes, the stock fans are pretty lame.   Nobody is advocating sticking
with those!

> >I cannot imagine my current setup is up to it. Since I have yet to ever
> pull it out, I am preparing for a little cleanup.
>  I considered getting pusher fans instead which would be much easier, but
> I also do not care for the tight fitment between the radiator and headlight
> switches/motor that would make that area much more accessible.
>
>>>Well, think about that statement for a moment.

Think about the amount of work that would be required to enable you to
change your cooling system around to access those components from above.   It's
a LOT of work.   How often does anybody really need to access those
components?  Perhaps once in a car's lifetime.   I suggest taking the radiator o
ut,
then pulling the headlight drive mechanism, installing a brass gear if there
isn't one already there, lubing everything up and putting it all back
together.

There, done for the next 40 years.   If, by chance, you suffered a failure
of a fan limit switch, with a stock setup with pusher fans, in the worst
case you would have to remove the fans (takes five minutes), unbolt the
radiator and lean it forward slightly to get the limit switch out.   If it conce
rns
you that much, why not just install a new one right now?   That would then
be the final time you would ever need to access that area.

Really, I think you are overthinking things quite a bit, creating a LOT of
work (and proposing to spend a lot of money) to prepare for a contingency
that would likely never come up, and virtually 100% guaranteed would never
come up if you just did a little preventative maintenance right now.

I say, get yourself some Hall pusher fans, install them with the requisite
mods that you would use with any new fans (grounding them locally through
diodes, and improve the current path by stringing new wires from aux fuses
through new relays), and then live happily ever after.

While new Hall fans are expensive:

[7]http://hallpantera.com/cgi-bin/p/awtp-product.cgi?d=hallpantera-inc&
item=20271

They are readily available used, either from people here who have
'upgraded' to a sucker fan configuration, or even from Pantera vendors who have
sold
new cooling packages and took the old fans in as a partial payment.   FWIW
Lori's Hall radiator came to us as a gift from Wilkinson (it was leaking, and
needed $40 of repairs), and he sold her Hall fans for under $100 for the
pair.   Both have since been put to great use, and her car runs at 180 degrees
all day long, just like mine.....

Good luck!

Mike

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References

   1. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
   2. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
   3. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
   4. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
   5. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
   6. http://hallpantera.com/cgi-bin/p/awtp-product.cgi?d=hallpantera-inc&item=20270
   7. http://hallpantera.com/cgi-bin/p/awtp-product.cgi?d=hallpantera-inc&
   8. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
   9. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

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