[DeTomaso] Adding sucker fans

[Rob Dumoulin]

How many CFMs do the Mariah fans push through a smaller shrouded area vs.
Modern-day thin ones that have a larger shrouded area?
On Jul 5, 2015 8:35 PM, <MikeLDrew at aol.com> wrote:

>
> In a message dated 7/5/15 16 14 24, rob at dumoulins.net writes:
>
>
>
> The reason I want to lay it forward is to get some modern fans on it.
>
> >>>That is definitely a good idea!  But one does not need to lay the
> radiator forward to fit modern fans--either pushers or suckers.
>
> >I believe my radiator is a Hall unit from many years back.
>
> >>>That is a very good thing indeed.  Hall brass radiators are fantastic
> (their stock replacement unit, this one:
> http://hallpantera.com/cgi-bin/p/awtp-product.cgi?d=hallpantera-inc&item=20270
> )
>
>
>  >It has both a top and bottom sensor, though only the top is wired.
>
> >>>Why wouldn't you wire the fans to come on sequentially, as originally
> designed?
>
> Hall used to supply their radiator with two different temperature
> switches, again, as per the originals.  Lately they have been selling them
> with the same temp in both holes, which doesn't seem very smart to me.
> Since switches are available anywhere in a variety of temps, and are cheap
> as chips (under $25 each), there's no reason not to have two different
> temps and have the second fan only come on as needed.
>
>
> >The car does get warm in traffic in the Florida heat and my plans are to
> rebuild the stock motor up to 500 hp. The original fans are pitifully bad.
>
> >>>Oh yes, the stock fans are pretty lame.  Nobody is advocating sticking
> with those!
>
> >I cannot imagine my current setup is up to it. Since I have yet to ever
> pull it out, I am preparing for a little cleanup.
> I considered getting pusher fans instead which would be much easier, but I
> also do not care for the tight fitment between the radiator and headlight
> switches/motor that would make that area much more accessible.
>
> >>>Well, think about that statement for a moment.
>
> Think about the amount of work that would be required to enable you to
> change your cooling system around to access those components from above.
> It's a LOT of work.  How often does anybody really need to access those
> components? Perhaps once in a car's lifetime.  I suggest taking the
> radiator out, then pulling the headlight drive mechanism, installing a
> brass gear if there isn't one already there, lubing everything up and
> putting it all back together.
>
> There, done for the next 40 years.  If, by chance, you suffered a failure
> of a fan limit switch, with a stock setup with pusher fans, in the worst
> case you would have to remove the fans (takes five minutes), unbolt the
> radiator and lean it forward slightly to get the limit switch out.  If it
> concerns you that much, why not just install a new one right now?  That
> would then be the final time you would ever need to access that area.
>
> Really, I think you are overthinking things quite a bit, creating a LOT of
> work (and proposing to spend a lot of money) to prepare for a contingency
> that would likely never come up, and virtually 100% guaranteed would never
> come up if you just did a little preventative maintenance right now.
>
> I say, get yourself some Hall pusher fans, install them with the requisite
> mods that you would use with any new fans (grounding them locally through
> diodes, and improve the current path by stringing new wires from aux fuses
> through new relays), and then live happily ever after.
>
> While new Hall fans are expensive:
>
>
> http://hallpantera.com/cgi-bin/p/awtp-product.cgi?d=hallpantera-inc&item=20271
>
> They are readily available used, either from people here who have
> 'upgraded' to a sucker fan configuration, or even from Pantera vendors who
> have sold new cooling packages and took the old fans in as a partial
> payment.  FWIW Lori's Hall radiator came to us as a gift from Wilkinson (it
> was leaking, and needed $40 of repairs), and he sold her Hall fans for
> under $100 for the pair.  Both have since been put to great use, and her
> car runs at 180 degrees all day long, just like mine.....
>
> Good luck!
>
> Mike
>
-------------- next part --------------
   How many CFMs do the Mariah fans push through a smaller shrouded area
   vs. Modern-day thin ones that have a larger shrouded area?

   On Jul 5, 2015 8:35 PM, <[1]MikeLDrew at aol.com> wrote:

     In a message dated 7/5/15 16 14 24, [2]rob at dumoulins.net writes:
     The reason I want to lay it forward is to get some modern fans on
     it.
     >>>That is definitely a good idea!A  But one does not need to lay
     the radiator forward to fit modern fans--either pushers or suckers.

     >I believe my radiator is a Hall unit from many years back.
     >>>That is a very good thing indeed.A  Hall brass radiators are
     fantastic (their stock replacement unit, this one:A
     [3]http://hallpantera.com/cgi-bin/p/awtp-product.cgi?d=hallpantera-i
     nc&item=20270)

     >It has both a top and bottom sensor, though only the top is wired.
     >>>Why wouldn't you wire the fans to come on sequentially, as
     originally designed?
     Hall used to supply their radiator with two different temperature
     switches, again, as per the originals.A  Lately they have been
     selling them with the same temp in both holes, which doesn't seem
     very smart to me.A  Since switches are available anywhere in a
     variety of temps, and are cheap as chips (under $25 each), there's
     no reason not to have two different temps and have the second fan
     only come on as needed.

     >The car does get warm in traffic in the Florida heat and my plans
     are to rebuild the stock motor up to 500 hp. The original fans are
     pitifully bad.
     >>>Oh yes, the stock fans are pretty lame.A  Nobody is advocating
     sticking with those!

     >I cannot imagine my current setup is up to it. Since I have yet to
     ever pull it out, I am preparing for a little cleanup.
     I considered getting pusher fans instead which would be much easier,
     but I also do not care for the tight fitment between the radiator
     and headlight switches/motor that would make that area much more
     accessible.
     >>>Well, think about that statement for a moment.
     Think about the amount of work that would be required to enable you
     to change your cooling system around to access those components from
     above.A  It's a LOT of work.A  How often does anybody really need to
     access those components? Perhaps once in a car's lifetime.A  I
     suggest taking the radiator out, then pulling the headlight drive
     mechanism, installing a brass gear if there isn't one already there,
     lubing everything up and putting it all back together.A
     There, done for the next 40 years.A  If, by chance, you suffered a
     failure of a fan limit switch, with a stock setup with pusher fans,
     in the worst case you would have to remove the fans (takes five
     minutes), unbolt the radiator and lean it forward slightly to get
     the limit switch out.A  If it concerns you that much, why not just
     install a new one right now?A  That would then be the final time you
     would ever need to access that area.
     Really, I think you are overthinking things quite a bit, creating a
     LOT of work (and proposing to spend a lot of money) to prepare for a
     contingency that would likely never come up, and virtually 100%
     guaranteed would never come up if you just did a little preventative
     maintenance right now.
     I say, get yourself some Hall pusher fans, install them with the
     requisite mods that you would use with any new fans (grounding them
     locally through diodes, and improve the current path by stringing
     new wires from aux fuses through new relays), and then live happily
     ever after.
     While new Hall fans are expensive:
     [4]http://hallpantera.com/cgi-bin/p/awtp-product.cgi?d=hallpantera-i
     nc&item=20271
     They are readily available used, either from people here who have
     'upgraded' to a sucker fan configuration, or even from Pantera
     vendors who have sold new cooling packages and took the old fans in
     as a partial payment.A  FWIW Lori's Hall radiator came to us as a
     gift from Wilkinson (it was leaking, and needed $40 of repairs), and
     he sold her Hall fans for under $100 for the pair.A  Both have since
     been put to great use, and her car runs at 180 degrees all day long,
     just like mine.....
     Good luck!
     Mike

References

   1. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
   2. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
   3. http://hallpantera.com/cgi-bin/p/awtp-product.cgi?d=hallpantera-inc&item=20270
   4. http://hallpantera.com/cgi-bin/p/awtp-product.cgi?d=hallpantera-inc&item=20271