[DeTomaso] Sodium valves
Ken Green
kenn_green at yahoo.com
Thu Feb 19 13:04:22 EST 2015
There are some safety issues (I assume not commonly encountered or GM would not use them):
From: Sean Korb <spkorb at gmail.com>
To: j g <notstock at yahoo.com>
Cc: B. SEIB <oldwheel at shaw.ca>; "',DetomasoList'," <detomaso at poca.com>; "',Ken Green'," <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2015 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sodium valves
I'm fascinated by sodium cooled valves, but I think titanium is a more popular option in this crowd. There were some made available for racing and while they do not have a cooling technology they do endure more heat than a stainless valve. They come up on ebay or a swap meet occasionally.
I just have a street engine so I'm not concerned... just fascinated.
sean
On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 10:01 AM, j g via DeTomaso <detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
I take no credit for the content below just passing along published
public domain material.
LSJ[[1]edit]
Ecotec LSJ engine in a 2006 [2]Saturn Ion Red Line
The LSJ is a supercharged version of the LK9 Ecotec 2.0 La 1,998 cc
(121.9 cu in)a with an [3]Eaton M62 [4]Roots-type supercharger and
air-to-liquid [5]intercooler. The LSJ shares many of its components
with the LK9 such as: piston cooling jets, oil cooler, pistons,
connecting rods, crankshaft, oil pan, sodium-filled exhaust valves and
cylinder head.^[6][8] It is rated at 205 hp
2.0 LNF[[7]edit]
Ecotec LNF in a [8]Pontiac Solstice
A turbocharged [9]direct injected (redubbed Spark Ignition Direct
Injection) Ecotec was introduced in the 2007 [10]Pontiac Solstice GXP
and [11]Saturn Sky Red Line. In these applications, the engine is
mounted longitudinally. Displacement is 2.0 La1,998 cc (121.9 cu
in)awith a square 86 millimetres (3.4 in) bore and stroke. Compression
is 9.2:1 and maximum boost is 1.4 bar (20.0 psi), delivering 260 hp
(190 kW) at 5300 rpm and 260 lbA.ft (350 NA.m) of torque from 2500 to
5250 rpm. Engine redline is at 6300 rpm and premium fuel is
recommended. The sodium filled exhaust valves were based on technology
developed for the Corvette V8 powertrains. The sodium fuses and becomes
a liquid at idle, which improves conductivity and draws heat away from
the valve face and valve guide towards the stem to be cooled by the
engine oil circulating in this area.[12]sodium-filled stainless steel
[13]Inconel exhaust [14]valves
LDK[[15]edit]
An updated variant of the LNF (also with 9.2:1 compression ratio). This
engine is also known as A20NFT and A20NHT by GM Powertrain Europe.
This engine is used in: all have [16]sodium-filled stainless steel
[17]Inconel exhaust [18]valves
Year(s) Model Power Torque
2009 [19]Opel Insignia 162 [20]kW (220 [21]PS; 217 [22]hp) @ 5300 rpm
350 NA.m (258 lbA.ft) @ 2500 rpm
2009a2010 [23]Buick Regal Turbo 162 [24]kW (220 [25]PS; 217 [26]hp) @
5300 rpm 350 NA.m (258 lbA.ft) @ 2500 rpm
2010a2013 [27]Buick Regal GS (Chinese Market) 162 [28]kW (220 [29]PS;
217 [30]hp) @ 5300 rpm 350 NA.m (258 lbA.ft) @ 2500 rpm
2009a2010 [31]Buick Regal Turbo (Hirsch Performance) 192 [32]kW (261
[33]PS; 257 [34]hp) @ 5400 rpm 400 NA.m (295 lbA.ft) @ 3000a4000 rpm
2010a2013 [35]Buick Regal GS (Hirsch Performance) 192 kW (261 PS; 257
hp) @ 5400 rpm 400 NA.m (300 lbA.ft) @ 3000a4000 rpm
2010a2012 [36]Saab 9-5 162 kW (220 PS; 217 hp) @ 5300 rpm 350 NA.m (258
lbA.ft) @ 2500 rpm
2011, 2013a [37]Saab 9-3 ([38]NEVS) 162 kW (220 PS; 217 hp) @ 5300 rpm
350 NA.m (258 lbA.ft) @ 2500 rpm
2011 [39]Opel Insignia 4x4 184 kW (250 PS; 247 hp) @ 5300 rpm 400 NA.m
(300 lbA.ft) @ 2400a3600 rpm
2012 [40]Opel Astra J OPC 206 kW (280 PS; 276 hp) @ 5500 rpm 400 NA.m
(300 lbA.ft) @ 2500a4500 rpm
2014a [41]Buick Regal GS (Chinese Market) 187 kW (254 PS; 251 hp) @
5300 rpm 350 NA.m (260 lbA.ft) @ 2000a5000 rpm
2014a [42]Buick Regal GS (Hirsch Performance) 205 kW (279 PS; 275 hp) @
5400 rpm 410 NA.m (300 lbA.ft) @ 3000a4000 rpm
2.0[[43]edit]
LTG[[44]edit]
A 2.0 L (1998 cc) [45]turbocharged direct injection version of the gen
III Ecotec will be available in 2013 [46]Cadillac ATS and [47]Chevrolet
Malibu.This engine is also available in [48]Cadillac XTS in Chinese
market. Bore and stroke are both 86.0 millimetres (3.39 in),
compression is 9.5:1. The engine uses [49]twin-scroll turbocharger with
electronically controlled wastegate/bypass valve, air-to-air
intercooler, stainless steel dual-scroll (1a4, 2a3) exhaust manifold
designed to withstand 980 ADEGC (1,800 ADEGF) turbine temperature, and
[50]rotacast aluminum alloy (A356T6) cylinder head with sodium-filled
exhaust valves
ford stuff
ford FE "The intake and exhaust valves are larger than those found on
the 427 production engine". The exhaust valves feature a sodium filled
hollow stem for better heat conduction
5.0-liter V-8: 435 hp, 400 lb-ft
Fordas Coyote V-8 carries over as well, although it receives more
substantial changes. Mustang engineers used the [51]low-volume Boss
302as V-8, a [52]glorious-sounding 444-hp powerhouse, as its
performance bogey. Unfortunately, the Boss engine incorporated some
expensive manufacturing tricks that Ford couldnat possibly use in a
mass-produced engine, like hollow intake valves, sodium-filled exhaust
valves, and CNC-ported heads, so it had to look elsewhere to approach
Boss power levels.
The 1963 Indy pushrod engine produced 375 BHP at 7200 RPM from 255
cubic inches
Ford powered Lotus cars were prepared for Indy in 1963, to be driven by
Dan Gurney and Jimmy Clark. The high performance 260 used in the Cobra
was the starting point, dubbed the Stage 0 engine. Stage 1 involved
revised and enlarged intake and exhaust ports, and 12.5:1 compression
through the used of forged pop-up pistons. The special intake manifold
carried four 46mm downdraft Webers carburetors. Larger valves,
hollow-stemmed intakes and sodium-filled exhausts were fitted to the
heads, along with high silicon content aluminum alloy retainers.
[53]https://books.google.com/books?id=MaTmIcR2atAC&pg=PA74&lpg=PA74&dq=
ford+engines+sodium+filled+exhaust+valves&source=bl&ots=RRBKRsUD5Z&sig=
gPx7pk_Kb-FH5ufMokP2IXgNQBw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=6vjlVKj4JYqryQTJ14EI&ved=0CDs
Q6AEwBjgK#v=onepage&q=ford%20engines%20sodium%20filled%20exhaust%20valv
es&f=false
__________________________________________________________________
From: B. SEIB <oldwheel at shaw.ca>
To: 'j g' <notstock at yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 6:27 PM
Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Sodium valves
I wonder if the Buick GN had sodium ex valves then too?
Do you know if any of Ford's turbo or supercharged engines use sodium
filled valves jg?
Barry
__________________________________________________________________
From: j g [mailto:notstock at yahoo.com]
Sent: February-18-15 5:25 PM
To: B. SEIB; 'Ken Green'; 'Charles De Francisco'; 'DetomasoList'
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sodium valves
sodium filled exhaust valves were also used on the corvair turbo
charged engines from 62 on to the end of the 68
all 911 engines up to the 964 have sodium filled exhaust valves .
lt-4 zo6 had sodium filled exhaust valves . all turbo and supercharged
chevrolet engines have had sodium filled exhaust valves from the
factory. ls7 included
On the exhaust side, sodium-filling is the best way to increase the
head cooling capacity of a hollow exhaust valve. If stock diameter
steel valves are required, but a valve weight is not mandated, going to
a hollow intake and sodium-filled exhaust is certainly a major
advantage. better cooling of the valve and the guide as well as lighter
than other types except titanium .
Stainless steel (for street performance) has much better durability
characteristics than titanium, and the street guys wonat usually see
the real benefits of titanium. In racing, use titanium when you want to
lose weighta|and spend a lot of money. sodium filled exhaust valves
were an off shoot spin off from the aircraft engines way back .
jg
__________________________________________________________________
From: B. SEIB <oldwheel at shaw.ca>
To: 'Ken Green' <kenn_green at yahoo.com>; 'Charles De Francisco'
<drfortinbras at gmail.com>; 'DetomasoList' <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sodium valves
Yes, that sounds reasonable. I think it was for use in aircraft
engines
with some form of supercharging that they were originally developed.
I
just didn't realize they were back in style!
Barry
__________________________________________________________________
From: Ken Green [mailto:[54]kenn_green at yahoo.com]
Sent: February-18-15 4:07 PM
To: B. SEIB; 'Charles De Francisco'; 'DetomasoList'
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sodium valves
What I read said the stock LS7 has sodium filled exhaust valves.
I would guess that a turbo charged production engine might have them
to
handle the heat?
Ken
__________________________________________________________________
From: B. SEIB <[55]oldwheel at shaw.ca>
To: 'Charles De Francisco' <[56]drfortinbras at gmail.com>; 'Ken Green'
<[57]kenn_green at yahoo.com>; 'DetomasoList' <[58]detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sodium valves
Thanks Charles
I wouldn't be surprised if sodium valves were used in Nascar hemis
or
Boss 429 engines too. I just don't recall any production engines
with
them, but I could be wrong.....
Ken Green says the LS7 uses them !
I'm surprised at that. I wonder if that's in the GM engine as
produced
or an aftermarket thing?
Ken, do you know?
Barry
__________________________________________________________________
From: Charles De Francisco [mailto:[1][59]drfortinbras at gmail.com]
Sent: February-18-15 3:41 PM
To: B. SEIB
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sodium valves
Hi Barry your info was almost rite on. Ford did offer the sodium
valves on the 427 engines for thr Cobras used in their race program
There was a issue with the nos valves as the sodium corroded the
inside
causing them to come apart as they were drilled to make the stem
hollow..the story I heard was the sodium was to provide cooling of
the
valve stem in endurance racing...we used some
In drag race engines as they were somewhat lighter..a much better
set
up would be manley stainless valves..?..Pete Coleman
At manley in Lakewood n.j. 732-905-3366 would be able to help you
on
this issue.
On Wednesday, February 18, 2015, B. SEIB
<[1][2][60]oldwheel at shaw.ca>
wrote:
Hi Robert
Sodium valves were a feature in the 375HP version of Corvette 327
engines
with fuel injection. I don't recall sodium valves being used in
other US
standard production engines. Maybe some other exotic engines did.
Later
valve steels and technology made the risks and expense of sodium
filled
valves obsolete in HP engines. The idea originated in aircraft
piston
engines back around WWII, I think, and was related to trying to
cool
exhaust
valves under high stress loads.
The 1971 Cleveland 351-4V engines in Panteras (and Mustangs,etc.)
had high
compression closed chamber (quench) heads, single point
distributors, small
square bore 600cfm 4300A carbs and 2 bolt mains. The Boss 351 was
the only
351C to get 4 bolt mains, dual point distributor and the large
spreadbore
Motorcraft 4300D carb in 1971 along with high compression CC
heads.
Some people have said that some 1971 4V engines found there way
into
very
early 72 Panteras, but probably only in early January 72 cars.
The
1972
Cobra-jet engines would have entered production in Sept of 1971
and
by the
end of 1971, DeTomaso was likely to have used their engine stock
on
hand and
have received new Cobra-jet engines from Ford. I understand
DeTomaso
was
generally receiving engines only about a month or so after they
were
produced in the US plant.
1972 Panteras came with Cobra-jet engines that had open chamber
(lower
compression) 4V heads but with 4 bolt mains, dual point
distributor
and
large spreadbore Motorcraft 4300D carb. This was the strange
result
of Ford
trying to recover some of the power lost to stricter emission
standards for
1972. The compression had to come down for unleaded gas and Ford
upped the
RPM to try to get some oomph back. They retarded the cam timing
and
hopped
it up a bit to get the power at higher revs, thus the dual point
and
4 bolt
mains.
1973 and 74 went downhill from there, with increasing emissions
and
lower
compression.
So...the best heads were in 1971, but everything else was better
in
1972.
Unless you have a 1971 BOSS 351 engine, which never came in a
production US
market Pantera. Pity that.
Barry
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51. http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2012-ford-mustang-boss-302-test-review
52. http://blog.caranddriver.com/name-that-exhaust-note-episode-103/
53. https://books.google.com/books?id=MaTmIcR2atAC&pg=PA74&lpg=PA74&dq=ford+engines+sodium+filled+exhaust+valves&source=bl&ots=RRBKRsUD5Z&sig=gPx7pk_Kb-FH5ufMokP2IXgNQBw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=6vjlVKj4JYqryQTJ14EI&ved=0CDsQ6AEwBjgK#v=onepage&q=ford%20engines%20sodium%20filled%20exhaust%20valves&f=false
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--
Sean Korb spkorb at spkorb.org http://www.spkorb.org
'65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
-------------- next part --------------
There are some safety issues (I assume not commonly encountered or GM
would not use them):
Inline image
__________________________________________________________________
From: Sean Korb <spkorb at gmail.com>
To: j g <notstock at yahoo.com>
Cc: B. SEIB <oldwheel at shaw.ca>; "',DetomasoList',"
<detomaso at poca.com>; "',Ken Green'," <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2015 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sodium valves
I'm fascinated by sodium cooled valves, but I think titanium is a more
popular option in this crowd. There were some made available for
racing and while they do not have a cooling technology they do endure
more heat than a stainless valve. They come up on ebay or a swap meet
occasionally.
I just have a street engine so I'm not concerned... just fascinated.
sean
On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 10:01 AM, j g via DeTomaso
<[1]detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
I take no credit for the content below just passing along
published
public domain material.
LSJ[[1]edit]
Ecotec LSJ engine in a 2006 [2]Saturn Ion Red Line
The LSJ is a supercharged version of the LK9 Ecotec 2.0 La 1,998
cc
(121.9 cu in)a with an [3]Eaton M62 [4]Roots-type supercharger
and
air-to-liquid [5]intercooler. The LSJ shares many of its
components
with the LK9 such as: piston cooling jets, oil cooler, pistons,
connecting rods, crankshaft, oil pan, sodium-filled exhaust
valves and
cylinder head.^[6][8] It is rated at 205 hp
2.0 LNF[[7]edit]
Ecotec LNF in a [8]Pontiac Solstice
A turbocharged [9]direct injected (redubbed Spark Ignition Direct
Injection) Ecotec was introduced in the 2007 [10]Pontiac Solstice
GXP
and [11]Saturn Sky Red Line. In these applications, the engine is
mounted longitudinally. Displacement is 2.0 La1,998 cc (121.9 cu
in)awith a square 86 millimetres (3.4 in) bore and stroke.
Compression
is 9.2:1 and maximum boost is 1.4 bar (20.0 psi), delivering 260
hp
(190 kW) at 5300 rpm and 260 lbA.ft (350 NA.m) of torque from
2500 to
5250 rpm. Engine redline is at 6300 rpm and premium fuel is
recommended. The sodium filled exhaust valves were based on
technology
developed for the Corvette V8 powertrains. The sodium fuses and
becomes
a liquid at idle, which improves conductivity and draws heat away
from
the valve face and valve guide towards the stem to be cooled by
the
engine oil circulating in this area.[12]sodium-filled stainless
steel
[13]Inconel exhaust [14]valves
LDK[[15]edit]
An updated variant of the LNF (also with 9.2:1 compression
ratio). This
engine is also known as A20NFT and A20NHT by GM Powertrain
Europe.
This engine is used in: all have [16]sodium-filled stainless
steel
[17]Inconel exhaust [18]valves
Year(s) Model Power Torque
2009 [19]Opel Insignia 162 [20]kW (220 [21]PS; 217 [22]hp) @ 5300
rpm
350 NA.m (258 lbA.ft) @ 2500 rpm
2009a2010 [23]Buick Regal Turbo 162 [24]kW (220 [25]PS; 217
[26]hp) @
5300 rpm 350 NA.m (258 lbA.ft) @ 2500 rpm
2010a2013 [27]Buick Regal GS (Chinese Market) 162 [28]kW (220
[29]PS;
217 [30]hp) @ 5300 rpm 350 NA.m (258 lbA.ft) @ 2500 rpm
2009a2010 [31]Buick Regal Turbo (Hirsch Performance) 192 [32]kW
(261
[33]PS; 257 [34]hp) @ 5400 rpm 400 NA.m (295 lbA.ft) @ 3000a4000
rpm
2010a2013 [35]Buick Regal GS (Hirsch Performance) 192 kW (261 PS;
257
hp) @ 5400 rpm 400 NA.m (300 lbA.ft) @ 3000a4000 rpm
2010a2012 [36]Saab 9-5 162 kW (220 PS; 217 hp) @ 5300 rpm 350
NA.m (258
lbA.ft) @ 2500 rpm
2011, 2013a [37]Saab 9-3 ([38]NEVS) 162 kW (220 PS; 217 hp) @
5300 rpm
350 NA.m (258 lbA.ft) @ 2500 rpm
2011 [39]Opel Insignia 4x4 184 kW (250 PS; 247 hp) @ 5300 rpm 400
NA.m
(300 lbA.ft) @ 2400a3600 rpm
2012 [40]Opel Astra J OPC 206 kW (280 PS; 276 hp) @ 5500 rpm 400
NA.m
(300 lbA.ft) @ 2500a4500 rpm
2014a [41]Buick Regal GS (Chinese Market) 187 kW (254 PS; 251 hp)
@
5300 rpm 350 NA.m (260 lbA.ft) @ 2000a5000 rpm
2014a [42]Buick Regal GS (Hirsch Performance) 205 kW (279 PS; 275
hp) @
5400 rpm 410 NA.m (300 lbA.ft) @ 3000a4000 rpm
2.0[[43]edit]
LTG[[44]edit]
A 2.0 L (1998 cc) [45]turbocharged direct injection version of
the gen
III Ecotec will be available in 2013 [46]Cadillac ATS and
[47]Chevrolet
Malibu.This engine is also available in [48]Cadillac XTS in
Chinese
market. Bore and stroke are both 86.0 millimetres (3.39 in),
compression is 9.5:1. The engine uses [49]twin-scroll
turbocharger with
electronically controlled wastegate/bypass valve, air-to-air
intercooler, stainless steel dual-scroll (1a4, 2a3) exhaust
manifold
designed to withstand 980 ADEGC (1,800 ADEGF) turbine
temperature, and
[50]rotacast aluminum alloy (A356T6) cylinder head with
sodium-filled
exhaust valves
ford stuff
ford FE "The intake and exhaust valves are larger than those
found on
the 427 production engine". The exhaust valves feature a sodium
filled
hollow stem for better heat conduction
5.0-liter V-8: 435 hp, 400 lb-ft
Fordas Coyote V-8 carries over as well, although it receives more
substantial changes. Mustang engineers used the [51]low-volume
Boss
302as V-8, a [52]glorious-sounding 444-hp powerhouse, as its
performance bogey. Unfortunately, the Boss engine incorporated
some
expensive manufacturing tricks that Ford couldnat possibly use in
a
mass-produced engine, like hollow intake valves, sodium-filled
exhaust
valves, and CNC-ported heads, so it had to look elsewhere to
approach
Boss power levels.
The 1963 Indy pushrod engine produced 375 BHP at 7200 RPM from
255
cubic inches
Ford powered Lotus cars were prepared for Indy in 1963, to be
driven by
Dan Gurney and Jimmy Clark. The high performance 260 used in the
Cobra
was the starting point, dubbed the Stage 0 engine. Stage 1
involved
revised and enlarged intake and exhaust ports, and 12.5:1
compression
through the used of forged pop-up pistons. The special intake
manifold
carried four 46mm downdraft Webers carburetors. Larger valves,
hollow-stemmed intakes and sodium-filled exhausts were fitted to
the
heads, along with high silicon content aluminum alloy retainers.
[53][2]https://books.google.com/books?id=MaTmIcR2atAC&pg=PA74&lpg=PA
74&dq=
ford+engines+sodium+filled+exhaust+valves&source=bl&ots=RRBKRsUD5Z&s
ig=
gPx7pk_Kb-FH5ufMokP2IXgNQBw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=6vjlVKj4JYqryQTJ14EI&ved=0
CDs
Q6AEwBjgK#v=onepage&q=ford%20engines%20sodium%20filled%20exhaust%20v
alv
es&f=false
__________________________________________________________________
From: B. SEIB <[3]oldwheel at shaw.ca>
To: 'j g' <[4]notstock at yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 6:27 PM
Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Sodium valves
I wonder if the Buick GN had sodium ex valves then too?
Do you know if any of Ford's turbo or supercharged engines use
sodium
filled valves jg?
Barry
__________________________________________________________________
From: j g [mailto:[5]notstock at yahoo.com]
Sent: February-18-15 5:25 PM
To: B. SEIB; 'Ken Green'; 'Charles De Francisco'; 'DetomasoList'
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sodium valves
sodium filled exhaust valves were also used on the corvair turbo
charged engines from 62 on to the end of the 68
all 911 engines up to the 964 have sodium filled exhaust valves
.
lt-4 zo6 had sodium filled exhaust valves . all turbo and
supercharged
chevrolet engines have had sodium filled exhaust valves from the
factory. ls7 included
On the exhaust side, sodium-filling is the best way to increase
the
head cooling capacity of a hollow exhaust valve. If stock
diameter
steel valves are required, but a valve weight is not mandated,
going to
a hollow intake and sodium-filled exhaust is certainly a major
advantage. better cooling of the valve and the guide as well as
lighter
than other types except titanium .
Stainless steel (for street performance) has much better
durability
characteristics than titanium, and the street guys wonat usually
see
the real benefits of titanium. In racing, use titanium when you
want to
lose weighta|and spend a lot of money. sodium filled exhaust
valves
were an off shoot spin off from the aircraft engines way back .
jg
__________________________________________________________________
From: B. SEIB <[6]oldwheel at shaw.ca>
To: 'Ken Green' <[7]kenn_green at yahoo.com>; 'Charles De Francisco'
<[8]drfortinbras at gmail.com>; 'DetomasoList'
<[9]detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sodium valves
Yes, that sounds reasonable. I think it was for use in aircraft
engines
with some form of supercharging that they were originally
developed.
I
just didn't realize they were back in style!
Barry
__________________________________________________________________
From: Ken Green [mailto:[54][10]kenn_green at yahoo.com]
Sent: February-18-15 4:07 PM
To: B. SEIB; 'Charles De Francisco'; 'DetomasoList'
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sodium valves
What I read said the stock LS7 has sodium filled exhaust
valves.
I would guess that a turbo charged production engine might have
them
to
handle the heat?
Ken
__________________________________________________________________
From: B. SEIB <[55][11]oldwheel at shaw.ca>
To: 'Charles De Francisco' <[56][12]drfortinbras at gmail.com>;
'Ken Green'
<[57][13]kenn_green at yahoo.com>; 'DetomasoList'
<[58][14]detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sodium valves
Thanks Charles
I wouldn't be surprised if sodium valves were used in Nascar
hemis
or
Boss 429 engines too. I just don't recall any production
engines
with
them, but I could be wrong.....
Ken Green says the LS7 uses them !
I'm surprised at that. I wonder if that's in the GM engine as
produced
or an aftermarket thing?
Ken, do you know?
Barry
__________________________________________________________________
From: Charles De Francisco
[mailto:[1][59][15]drfortinbras at gmail.com]
Sent: February-18-15 3:41 PM
To: B. SEIB
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sodium valves
Hi Barry your info was almost rite on. Ford did offer the
sodium
valves on the 427 engines for thr Cobras used in their race
program
There was a issue with the nos valves as the sodium corroded
the
inside
causing them to come apart as they were drilled to make the
stem
hollow..the story I heard was the sodium was to provide
cooling of
the
valve stem in endurance racing...we used some
In drag race engines as they were somewhat lighter..a much
better
set
up would be manley stainless valves..?..Pete Coleman
At manley in Lakewood n.j. [16]732-905-3366 would be able to
help you
on
this issue.
On Wednesday, February 18, 2015, B. SEIB
<[1][2][60][17]oldwheel at shaw.ca>
wrote:
Hi Robert
Sodium valves were a feature in the 375HP version of
Corvette 327
engines
with fuel injection. I don't recall sodium valves being
used in
other US
standard production engines. Maybe some other exotic
engines did.
Later
valve steels and technology made the risks and expense of
sodium
filled
valves obsolete in HP engines. The idea originated in
aircraft
piston
engines back around WWII, I think, and was related to
trying to
cool
exhaust
valves under high stress loads.
The 1971 Cleveland 351-4V engines in Panteras (and
Mustangs,etc.)
had high
compression closed chamber (quench) heads, single point
distributors, small
square bore 600cfm 4300A carbs and 2 bolt mains. The Boss
351 was
the only
351C to get 4 bolt mains, dual point distributor and the
large
spreadbore
Motorcraft 4300D carb in 1971 along with high compression
CC
heads.
Some people have said that some 1971 4V engines found there
way
into
very
early 72 Panteras, but probably only in early January 72
cars.
The
1972
Cobra-jet engines would have entered production in Sept of
1971
and
by the
end of 1971, DeTomaso was likely to have used their engine
stock
on
hand and
have received new Cobra-jet engines from Ford. I understand
DeTomaso
was
generally receiving engines only about a month or so after
they
were
produced in the US plant.
1972 Panteras came with Cobra-jet engines that had open
chamber
(lower
compression) 4V heads but with 4 bolt mains, dual point
distributor
and
large spreadbore Motorcraft 4300D carb. This was the
strange
result
of Ford
trying to recover some of the power lost to stricter
emission
standards for
1972. The compression had to come down for unleaded gas and
Ford
upped the
RPM to try to get some oomph back. They retarded the cam
timing
and
hopped
it up a bit to get the power at higher revs, thus the dual
point
and
4 bolt
mains.
1973 and 74 went downhill from there, with increasing
emissions
and
lower
compression.
So...the best heads were in 1971, but everything else was
better
in
1972.
Unless you have a 1971 BOSS 351 engine, which never came in
a
production US
market Pantera. Pity that.
Barry
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86. https://books.google.com/books?id=MaTmIcR2atAC&pg=PA74&lpg=PA74&dq=ford+engines+sodium+filled+exhaust+valves&source=bl&ots=RRBKRsUD5Z&sig=gPx7pk_Kb-FH5ufMokP2IXgNQBw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=6vjlVKj4JYqryQTJ14EI&ved=0CDsQ6AEwBjgK#v=onepage&q=ford%20engines%20sodium%20filled%20exhaust%20valves&f=false
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113. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Car_show_013.jpg
114. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
115. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
116. mailto:spkorb at spkorb.org
117. http://www.spkorb.org/
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