[DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 138, Issue 20
tom ware
ace595 at hotmail.com
Mon Dec 21 14:42:48 EST 2015
?ZF polishing
Can anyone give me the approx cost of having my ZF polished?
Is there someone in the northeast
That does this
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 21, 2015, at 2:00 PM, <detomaso-request at poca.com> <detomaso-request at poca.com> wrote:
>
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>
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>
>
> Daily Detomaso List Digest
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Track day? (P6746 at aol.com)
> 2. POCA financials (P6746 at aol.com)
> 3. Re: Mike's tale of De Tomaso book (Scott Martin)
> 4. Test (Effie Richards)
> 5. Re: POCA financials (Effie Richards)
> 6. Re: POCA financials (Effie Richards)
> 7. Re: Mike's tale of De Tomaso book (Joseph F. Byrd, Jr.)
> 8. Profiles (Rob DOrazio)
> 9. Re: Track day? (Charles McCall)
> 10. Re: Profiles (Effie Richards)
> 11. Re: Profiles (Forest Goodhart)
> 12. Re: Track day? (Pantdino)
> 13. SCOTT MARTIN.. A strong WRONG on your suggestion!!!
> (laurieferrari at aol.com)
> 14. The Forum and POCA (Michael Shortt)
> 15. Re: The Forum and POCA (Julian Kift)
> 16. Re: The Forum and POCA (Michael Shortt)
> 17. Re: POCA financials (Jeff Detrich)
> 18. What did you buy your Pantera(s) for Christmas/ Hanukkah /
> Kwanzaa / Festivus (Rob Dumoulin)
> 19. Re: What did you buy your Pantera(s) for Christmas/ Hanukkah
> / Kwanzaa / Festivus (Michael Shortt)
> 20. The Forum and POCA (laurieferrari at aol.com)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2015 15:56:51 -0500
> From: P6746 at aol.com
> To: julian_kift at hotmail.com, adin at frontier.net, michaelsavga at gmail.com
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Track day?
> Message-ID: <6f3443.68f25376.43a87013 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Julian your explanation of what has happened at Spring Mountain is spot
> on. They have grown and improved and consequentially moved completely out of
> our price range. We have looked at the outside road course at LVMS as
> well and found pricing to be unmanageable. The only way it might work would
> be to join up with another group, but both facilities will not sub let their
> courses, so we would have to find someone to share with on our own. Bob
> Benson and Larry Finch have been looking closely into the situation, but it
> doesn't look promising. We have seen numbers as high as $16000 for one
> day. But it's being worked on. Bob
>
>
> In a message dated 12/17/2015 12:10:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> julian_kift at hotmail.com writes:
>
> I believe I am correct in saying the Fun Rally IS an official function of
> POCA, however the track event associated with it is not (or historically
> has not been). The track event was for many years a PCNC organized event
> under the guidance of Larry Finch, when the Fun Rally started to move wider
> afield that ceased and the Phoenix Fun Rally track event was organized by Jim
> Cozzolino and subsequently the Texas World Speedway event was handled by
> Kirby Schrader. The track attendee numbers have been dwindling over the
> years and organizing individuals have been left out of pocket in some
> instances, despite sponsorship from vendors and individuals. I think I am am correct
> in saying POCA also acts as a sponsor to the track event to a nominal sum.
> The Texas event was a shared event with a third party (presumably to
> defray costs and ensure adequate numbers) although Pantera participation was
> strong.
>
> Prior Las Vegas Fun Rally's were associated with a track event at Spring
> Mountain (Pahrump), which at that time was a small desert open track day
> type entity, it has now progressed into an upscale private motorsports park
> and country club. However, I bumped into Bob Benson at Monterey Reunion this
> past August and he hinted that he would be trying to organize a track
> event at Spring Mountain to accompany the Fun Rally return to Vegas. I have no
> further information on how those negotiations are progressing.
>
> Julian
>
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> Julian your explanation of what has happened at Spring Mountain is spot
> on. They have grown and improved and consequentially moved completely
> out of our price range. We have looked at the outside road course at
> LVMS as well and found pricing to be unmanageable. The only way it
> might work would be to join up with another group, but both facilities
> will not sub let their courses, so we would have to find someone to
> share with on our own. Bob Benson and Larry Finch have been looking
> closely into the situation, but it doesn't look promising. We have
> seen numbers as high as $16000 for one day. But it's being worked on.
> Bob
>
>
>
> In a message dated 12/17/2015 12:10:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> julian_kift at hotmail.com writes:
>
> I believe I am correct in saying the Fun Rally IS an official
> function of POCA, however the track event associated with it is not
> (or historically has not been). The track event was for many years a
> PCNC organized event under the guidance of Larry Finch, when the
> Fun Rally started to move wider afield that ceased and the Phoenix
> Fun Rally track event was organized by Jim Cozzolino and
> subsequently the Texas World Speedway event was handled by Kirby
> Schrader. The track attendee numbers have been dwindling over the
> years and organizing individuals have been left out of pocket in
> some instances, despite sponsorship from vendors and individuals. I
> think I am am correct in saying POCA also acts as a sponsor to the
> track event to a nominal sum. The Texas event was a shared event
> with a third party (presumably to defray costs and ensure adequate
> numbers) although Pantera participation was strong.
> Prior Las Vegas Fun Rally's were associated with a track event at
> Spring Mountain (Pahrump), which at that time was a small desert
> open track day type entity, it has now progressed into an upscale
> private motorsports park and country club. However, I bumped into
> Bob Benson at Monterey Reunion this past August and he hinted that
> he would be trying to organize a track event at Spring Mountain to
> accompany the Fun Rally return to Vegas. I have no further
> information on how those negotiations are progressing.
> Julian
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2015 15:57:26 -0500
> From: P6746 at aol.com
> To: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] POCA financials
> Message-ID: <6f34a8.7cc49e53.43a87036 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> For anyone who is interested, all POCA financial information is available
> for public inspection at the IRS. All you need to do is file Form 4506-A
> with the IRS. Bob Reid
> -------------- next part --------------
> For anyone who is interested, all POCA financial information is
> available for public inspection at the IRS. All you need to do is file
> Form 4506-A with the IRS. Bob Reid
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2015 17:33:57 -0500
> From: Scott Martin <smmartin7 at netscape.net>
> To: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Mike's tale of De Tomaso book
> Message-ID: <151c187226b-7610-3575 at webprd-a68.mail.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I agree with this, but think we should go should go a step further and have POCA sanction the book.
>
>
> Mike and everyone else that has DeTomaso history knowledge should put it all into a definitive book on Detomaso, the person and the cars, and POCA endorse it as the most complete, factual book on the marque. It might be a multi-volume set and POCA might want to fund and own the rights or let someone else publish it. If the club agrees to the concept, a committee can be created to work out the details.
>
>
> I suggested to our new President that the club needs to sanction an official DeTomaso registry to have an official documentation of what cars were produced and how many are still remaining. There are a number of people around the world with unofficial registries, these should all be combined in a listing that POCA maintains. I offered to help with this.
>
>
> Clubs like Shelby and Ferrari have official registries and history books, I think it is time for POCA to step up to this. But we can't lose our roots of providing social events and member activities.
>
>
> Scott Martin
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
> To: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
> Sent: Sat, Dec 19, 2015 12:06 am
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Mike's tale of De Tomaso book
>
> I have two questions for Mike and a comment to All,
>
> 1. When will "YOU" write a BOOK? You are long over due. Obviously you have far
> more information than even a gifted bear; you've got the knowledge of historical
> facts, technical facts, and all those thousands of pictures you've taken and
> gathered through so many years, is it not yet obvious that YOU should be the
> author of your own book? Heck... the letter you wrote here is nearly a book in
> itself.
>
> 2. Just curious, did there happen to be a picture of my little ole car in those
> batches of familial photos? : )
>
> 3. Cheers and Happiness to All. It's going to be a really GOOD YEAR!
> (better be!) I even agree with what Judy said in her last two posts.
>
> Laurie
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> ______________________
>
> [DeTomaso] On writing a book on De Tomaso....
>
> MikeLDrew at aol.com [1]MikeLDrew at aol.com
> Fri Dec 18 12:59:12 MST 2015
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> All,
>
> Herewith, my thoughts on the trials and tribulations of producing a book on
> De Tomasoa|.
>
> More than a year ago, I got an e-mail out of the blue from Daniele Pozzi, a
> college professor in Italy. He was committed to writing a book on De
> Tomaso, focusing on the man and his life rather than on the cars. He had my
> address (among numerous others) as a potential source of help and information.
> I replied right away, but heard nothing back.
>
> Six or eight months later, I was again contacted by Dr. Pozzi. This time
> when I replied, I mentioned I had replied earlier and learned for some
> reason he had never received that. He seemed quite excited when he learned of
> my position as Profiles editor, and my ability to support him with images
> etc.
>
> We went back and forth, as he discussed his vision for the book. He
> wanted to tell the whole story of De Tomaso (so he said) and end it with coverag
> e
> of how De Tomaso has touched the lives of thousands of people around the
> world, and made it possible to forge lasting friendships through his cars.
> Thus he was especially keen to get photos and information from club meetings
> such as the POCA Fun Rally and the various European meetings.
>
> It took me a few weeks, but I scoured my archives and, not wanting to leave
> anything out, I gave him over 46,000 (!) individual images I'd collected
> over the years. I did help by filtering them somewhat, and I put crucial
> historical images whose value I thought was important in key folders, and
> organized the others in various contexts (Fun Rally photos, Euro meeting photos,
>
> individual car photos, people photos etc.). I burned them to USB sticks
> and sent them to him. During this time, he had been peppering me with
> questions, asking me to fact-check certain technical details (he appears to be
> more of a historian than a traditional 'car guy'), etc.
>
> The Italian postal service leaves more than a bit to be desired, and it
> took almost two months (!) for the sticks to arrive. But in the meantime,
> things had taken a bit of a turn.
>
> It was never clear to me if Dr. Pozzi had the idea to write a book, and
> then found a publisher to produce it, or if the publisher wanted to produce a
> book, and found a guy to write it. But clearly their relationship was not
> all that it could have been. Pozzi had a very clear image in his mind of
> what he wanted his book to be--he wanted it to be positive and uplifting, and
> a primary goal was to show the happiness that De Tomaso's works have
> generated among many people like us.
>
> The publisher had different ideas, and thought that was totally stupid.
> They wanted a straight historical biography without all the happy kumbyah
> stuff. There was a meeting in the publisher's office, and one can imagine
> what an Italian business confrontation looks/sounds like. Lots of yelling and
> arm-waving, and at the end of it, they took his manuscript and fired him
> from the project!
>
> My images arrived just after this all happened, so none of them were
> incorporated into the book. (The only things he got from me that were included
>
> in the book were photos of Dave Jacobsen's beautiful Pre-L Pantera, which was
> a Profiles centerfold car--I had sent those to him earlier, and numerous
> photos of that car are scattered throughout the book including on the cover,
> and Dave is rightly given photo credit).
>
> Shortly afterwards, you may recall that Ed Mendez was contacted by a US
> publisher looking for some help in producing an English-language version of the
> book, and he shared that info with us. Several of you expressed interest,
> but I contacted the publisher directly and asked him WTF since I was
> already deeply involved in the project?
>
> The publisher immediately phoned me in surprise, as he had no knowledge.
>
> It turns out that there was a big book fair in New York City, and the
> Italian company had showed off an Italian-language mockup of the book, and was
> seeking a US partner to produce an English-language version alongside of it.
> Both editions would be printed at the same time in Italy. They assured
> everyone that this was a turn-key, ready-for-print book that only needed
> translation, so Dalton Books bought it.
>
> This outfit is known for producing really, really, REALLY high-quality car
> books--limited-edition leather bound box sets on the Rolls-Royce Silver
> Ghost that sell for $1750, that kind of thing.
>
> They hired an Italian-to-English translator to translate the text (one who
> supposedly had a good grasp of both languages but didn't really know
> automobiles specifically), and when that was done, they sent the text to me for
> fact-checking and editing.
>
> The translation left a lot to be desired; there was more than a little
> flat-tire English, where it would be obvious that the writer didn't speak the
> language fluently, and re-writing the factually correct text into proper,
> flowing English was a big job. However, there were a LOT of factual and
> technical errors, which took quite some time to sort through and correct. That
> process alone probably took me 20-30 hours, as when I read something that I
> believed to be wrong, I had to be able to prove it to them (and myself) so had
> to do a lot of independent research. The Italian publisher got quite
> annoyed, because I pointed out loads of technical and historical inaccuracies,
> which needed to be corrected in the English language version, and then they
> felt compelled to change those same errors in the Italian version.
>
> (One example--Pozzi got it backwards and thought the Vallelunga prototypes
> were made in fiberglass and the production cars were in aluminum, but we all
> know that is demonstrably untrue; there are only three known aluminum
> Fissore prototypes and all the Ghia cars, including the one De Tomaso owns today
> ,
> are fiberglass).
>
> There were some 'facts' that I believed were incorrect, but I couldn't
> prove it. I would then ask Pozzi to seek confirmation from his sources, as I
> thought perhaps he had got a story turned around or something? But by this
> time, he had lost all interest in cooperating with the project that had been
> taken away from him, and although he was very polite and friendly to me, he
> basically said he was too busy to devote any more time to it, and told the
> Italian publishers to take a flying leapa|.
>
> More disturbing to me, however, is that the book ended very prematurely in
> the story. Most people know that De Tomaso suffered a terrible stroke in
> 1993. It left him permanently paralyzed and unable to speak, but his brain
> was completely unaffected. He then entered into an absolutely heroic
> period of intensive rehab, determined to conquer his condition. He gradually
> improved somewhat, and was able to communicate in a very guttural manner,
> which only a handful of people were able to understand.
>
> Even at that, he successfully negotiated the sale of his 51% ownership of
> Maserati to Ferrari for many millions of Euros, then launched the De Tomaso
> Bigua, which then evolved into a joint venture with Qvale, and then blew up
> spectacularly. Even as that was crashing to earth, he was involved with a
> grand scheme with backing of the Italian government to import sturdy, simple
> Russian 4x4 SUVs in KDC (knocked-down kit) form; the trucks would arrive as
> 1:1 scale kits, and would be assembled in a new purpose-built factory in the
> economically depressed south of Italy, and would be powered by a
> Belgian-made diesel engine sourced from a partnership with Chrysler. This was
> a VERY
> complicated deal with a lot of moving parts.
>
> The profits from this enterprise would then be funneled to De Tomaso
> Automobili, who would use them to produce a new Vallelunga (Porsche
> Boxter-competitor, likely powered by a Saab turbo motor), and ultimately a new P
> antera.
>
> Unfortunately, that whole deal blew up too, after De Tomaso had accepted a
> huge pile of Euros from the Italian government. When the plug got pulled
> and he was unable to pay it back, De Tomaso went into liquidation, then the
> brand was sold, and more Italian economic soap opera took place for a few
> years afterwards, with the family not involved.
>
> Anyway, even though both the Qvale and SUV deals fell apart, they were VERY
> ambitious projects, and were not merely vaporware--real cars were produced
> in both cases. This was a very significant and tragic end to the story of
> De Tomaso, both the man and the corporation--and it was completely absent
> from the book.
>
> When I read it and found this out, I sent a strong WTFO note to both
> English and Italian publishers and the author? Pozzi then confessed that when
> the project first started. Isabelle and Santiago promised full cooperation
> (without which the book would have been more or less impossible) under the
> condition that Pozzi agree to conceal the truth about anything that happened
> after 1993!
>
> What kind of historian or journalist would agree to such terms? In any
> case, that's the deal Pozzi made, so all talk of those later failed ventures
> was eliminated. I find it especially pathetic, because if you are really
> interested in the MAN, it is something the family should be proud of. But
> instead, they are ashamed of the fact that the ventures failed and want to
> whitewash history and pretend they never happened.
>
> So the text in the book more or less indicates that he had a stroke in
> 1993, then sat around in a poopy diaper, drooling on himself until he died in
> 2003. To me, THAT is pathetic, but that's how they wanted the story told.
> Charlie and I know for a fact that's not true, because when we met him in
> 2001, he was absolutely FEROCIOUS, animated, loud, arrogant, and full of piss
> and vinegar. Although I happened to feel that he was a complete jerk (as
> did seemingly everybody else who knew him), he was far from the vegetable the
> book makes him out to be.
>
> So, with all that said, when the book arrived the other day, I was
> absolutely blown away at the high quality of the resultant effort. The book is
>
> considerably larger than I was expecting (it's 13x11 inches) and the
> photography is simply stunning. There are beautiful photo spreads of most of t
> he
> cars in the De Tomaso family collection (although since they don't have a GT5
> or GT5-S, those are absent, and apparently their Pantera Si broke down and
> they didn't want to bother towing it to be photographed so it's absent too).
> There are historical photos directly from De Tomaso's family archives that
> have never been seen before, and will never be seen anywhere else.
>
> And there's the story. Given their well-established propensity for
> shading the truth, one has to wonder exactly how accurate it all is, but I'm
> willing to give them the benefit of the doubt about their telling of their early
>
> history at least. It's certainly educational (I learned a lot!) and
> fascinating.
>
> So at the end of the day, even with all the caveats and asterisks, this is
> far and away the best De Tomaso book ever made, and if you have even a
> passing interest in the marque, you owe it to yourself to get a copy!
>
> Mike
>
> P.S. It's worth noting that purely by coincidence, another Italian-market
> book on De Tomaso has just been printed; it was released on September 30th.
> It's in Italian only and seems to be a much more modest effort (208
> pages, paperback?). I've only seen pictures of the book, but the few pages I
> saw revealed images I'd never seen elsewhere, so that might be worth digging
> up as well if you're really a nut about this stuffa|.
>
> Here it is on the publisher's website:
>
> [2]http://www.edizioniilfiorino.com/catalogo/sport/0488/automobili-de-tomaso.ht
> m
>
> Not available on Amazon USA, but it is available on Amazon Italia:
>
> [3]http://www.amazon.it/Automobili-De-Tomaso-Dante-Candini/dp/8875495947
>
> and from numerous other European retailers as wella|.
> -------------- next part --------------
> All,
> Herewith, my thoughts on the trials and tribulations of producing a
> book on De Tomasoa|.
> More than a year ago, I got an e-mail out of the blue from Daniele
> Pozzi, a college professor in Italy. He was committed to writing a
> book on De Tomaso, focusing on the man and his life rather than on the
> cars. He had my address (among numerous others) as a potential source
> of help and information. I replied right away, but heard nothing back.
> Six or eight months later, I was again contacted by Dr. Pozzi. This
> time when I replied, I mentioned I had replied earlier and learned for
> some reason he had never received that. He seemed quite excited when
> he learned of my position as Profiles editor, and my ability to support
> him with images etc.
> We went back and forth, as he discussed his vision for the book. He
> wanted to tell the whole story of De Tomaso (so he said) and end it
> with coverage of how De Tomaso has touched the lives of thousands of
> people around the world, and made it possible to forge lasting
> friendships through his cars. Thus he was especially keen to get
> photos and information from club meetings such as the POCA Fun Rally
> and the various European meetings.
> It took me a few weeks, but I scoured my archives and, not wanting to
> leave anything out, I gave him over 46,000 (!) individual images I'd
> collected over the years. I did help by filtering them somewhat, and I
> put crucial historical images whose value I thought was important in
> key folders, and organized the others in various contexts (Fun Rally
> photos, Euro meeting photos, individual car photos, people photos
> etc.). I burned them to USB sticks and sent them to him. During this
> time, he had been peppering me with questions, asking me to fact-check
> certain technical details (he appears to be more of a historian than a
> traditional 'car guy'), etc.
> The Italian postal service leaves more than a bit to be desired, and it
> took almost two months (!) for the sticks to arrive. But in the
> meantime, things had taken a bit of a turn.
> It was never clear to me if Dr. Pozzi had the idea to write a book, and
> then found a publisher to produce it, or if the publisher wanted to
> produce a book, and found a guy to write it. But clearly their
> relationship was not all that it could have been. Pozzi had a very
> clear image in his mind of what he wanted his book to be--he wanted it
> to be positive and uplifting, and a primary goal was to show the
> happiness that De Tomaso's works have generated among many people like
> us.
> The publisher had different ideas, and thought that was totally
> stupid. They wanted a straight historical biography without all the
> happy kumbyah stuff. There was a meeting in the publisher's office,
> and one can imagine what an Italian business confrontation looks/sounds
> like. Lots of yelling and arm-waving, and at the end of it, they took
> his manuscript and fired him from the project!
> My images arrived just after this all happened, so none of them were
> incorporated into the book. (The only things he got from me that were
> included in the book were photos of Dave Jacobsen's beautiful Pre-L
> Pantera, which was a Profiles centerfold car--I had sent those to him
> earlier, and numerous photos of that car are scattered throughout the
> book including on the cover, and Dave is rightly given photo credit).
> Shortly afterwards, you may recall that Ed Mendez was contacted by a US
> publisher looking for some help in producing an English-language
> version of the book, and he shared that info with us. Several of you
> expressed interest, but I contacted the publisher directly and asked
> him WTF since I was already deeply involved in the project?
> The publisher immediately phoned me in surprise, as he had no
> knowledge.
> It turns out that there was a big book fair in New York City, and the
> Italian company had showed off an Italian-language mockup of the book,
> and was seeking a US partner to produce an English-language version
> alongside of it. Both editions would be printed at the same time in
> Italy. They assured everyone that this was a turn-key, ready-for-print
> book that only needed translation, so Dalton Books bought it.
> This outfit is known for producing really, really, REALLY high-quality
> car books--limited-edition leather bound box sets on the Rolls-Royce
> Silver Ghost that sell for $1750, that kind of thing.
> They hired an Italian-to-English translator to translate the text (one
> who supposedly had a good grasp of both languages but didn't really
> know automobiles specifically), and when that was done, they sent the
> text to me for fact-checking and editing.
> The translation left a lot to be desired; there was more than a little
> flat-tire English, where it would be obvious that the writer didn't
> speak the language fluently, and re-writing the factually correct text
> into proper, flowing English was a big job. However, there were a LOT
> of factual and technical errors, which took quite some time to sort
> through and correct. That process alone probably took me 20-30 hours,
> as when I read something that I believed to be wrong, I had to be able
> to prove it to them (and myself) so had to do a lot of independent
> research. The Italian publisher got quite annoyed, because I pointed
> out loads of technical and historical inaccuracies, which needed to be
> corrected in the English language version, and then they felt compelled
> to change those same errors in the Italian version.
> (One example--Pozzi got it backwards and thought the Vallelunga
> prototypes were made in fiberglass and the production cars were in
> aluminum, but we all know that is demonstrably untrue; there are only
> three known aluminum Fissore prototypes and all the Ghia cars,
> including the one De Tomaso owns today, are fiberglass).
> There were some 'facts' that I believed were incorrect, but I couldn't
> prove it. I would then ask Pozzi to seek confirmation from his
> sources, as I thought perhaps he had got a story turned around or
> something? But by this time, he had lost all interest in cooperating
> with the project that had been taken away from him, and although he was
> very polite and friendly to me, he basically said he was too busy to
> devote any more time to it, and told the Italian publishers to take a
> flying leapa|.
> More disturbing to me, however, is that the book ended very prematurely
> in the story. Most people know that De Tomaso suffered a terrible
> stroke in 1993. It left him permanently paralyzed and unable to speak,
> but his brain was completely unaffected. He then entered into an
> absolutely heroic period of intensive rehab, determined to conquer his
> condition. He gradually improved somewhat, and was able to communicate
> in a very guttural manner, which only a handful of people were able to
> understand.
> Even at that, he successfully negotiated the sale of his 51% ownership
> of Maserati to Ferrari for many millions of Euros, then launched the De
> Tomaso Bigua, which then evolved into a joint venture with Qvale, and
> then blew up spectacularly. Even as that was crashing to earth, he was
> involved with a grand scheme with backing of the Italian government to
> import sturdy, simple Russian 4x4 SUVs in KDC (knocked-down kit) form;
> the trucks would arrive as 1:1 scale kits, and would be assembled in a
> new purpose-built factory in the economically depressed south of Italy,
> and would be powered by a Belgian-made diesel engine sourced from a
> partnership with Chrysler. This was a VERY complicated deal with a lot
> of moving parts.
> The profits from this enterprise would then be funneled to De Tomaso
> Automobili, who would use them to produce a new Vallelunga (Porsche
> Boxter-competitor, likely powered by a Saab turbo motor), and
> ultimately a new Pantera.
> Unfortunately, that whole deal blew up too, after De Tomaso had
> accepted a huge pile of Euros from the Italian government. When the
> plug got pulled and he was unable to pay it back, De Tomaso went into
> liquidation, then the brand was sold, and more Italian economic soap
> opera took place for a few years afterwards, with the family not
> involved.
> Anyway, even though both the Qvale and SUV deals fell apart, they were
> VERY ambitious projects, and were not merely vaporware--real cars were
> produced in both cases. This was a very significant and tragic end to
> the story of De Tomaso, both the man and the corporation--and it was
> completely absent from the book.
> When I read it and found this out, I sent a strong WTFO note to both
> English and Italian publishers and the author? Pozzi then confessed
> that when the project first started. Isabelle and Santiago promised
> full cooperation (without which the book would have been more or less
> impossible) under the condition that Pozzi agree to conceal the truth
> about anything that happened after 1993!
> What kind of historian or journalist would agree to such terms? In any
> case, that's the deal Pozzi made, so all talk of those later failed
> ventures was eliminated. I find it especially pathetic, because if you
> are really interested in the MAN, it is something the family should be
> proud of. But instead, they are ashamed of the fact that the ventures
> failed and want to whitewash history and pretend they never happened.
> So the text in the book more or less indicates that he had a stroke in
> 1993, then sat around in a poopy diaper, drooling on himself until he
> died in 2003. To me, THAT is pathetic, but that's how they wanted the
> story told. Charlie and I know for a fact that's not true, because
> when we met him in 2001, he was absolutely FEROCIOUS, animated, loud,
> arrogant, and full of piss and vinegar. Although I happened to feel
> that he was a complete jerk (as did seemingly everybody else who knew
> him), he was far from the vegetable the book makes him out to be.
> So, with all that said, when the book arrived the other day, I was
> absolutely blown away at the high quality of the resultant effort. The
> book is considerably larger than I was expecting (it's 13x11 inches)
> and the photography is simply stunning. There are beautiful photo
> spreads of most of the cars in the De Tomaso family collection
> (although since they don't have a GT5 or GT5-S, those are absent, and
> apparently their Pantera Si broke down and they didn't want to bother
> towing it to be photographed so it's absent too). There are historical
> photos directly from De Tomaso's family archives that have never been
> seen before, and will never be seen anywhere else.
> And there's the story. Given their well-established propensity for
> shading the truth, one has to wonder exactly how accurate it all is,
> but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt about their
> telling of their early history at least. It's certainly educational (I
> learned a lot!) and fascinating.
> So at the end of the day, even with all the caveats and asterisks, this
> is far and away the best De Tomaso book ever made, and if you have even
> a passing interest in the marque, you owe it to yourself to get a copy!
> Mike
> P.S. It's worth noting that purely by coincidence, another
> Italian-market book on De Tomaso has just been printed; it was released
> on September 30th. It's in Italian only and seems to be a much more
> modest effort (208 pages, paperback?). I've only seen pictures of the
> book, but the few pages I saw revealed images I'd never seen elsewhere,
> so that might be worth digging up as well if you're really a nut about
> this stuffa|.
> Here it is on the publisher's website:
> [4]http://www.edizioniilfiorino.com/catalogo/sport/0488/automobili-de-toma
> so.htm
> Not available on Amazon USA, but it is available on Amazon Italia:
> [5]http://www.amazon.it/Automobili-De-Tomaso-Dante-Candini/dp/8875495947
> and from numerous other European retailers as wella|.
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:detomaso%40poca.com?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BDeTomaso%5D%20On%20writing%20a%20book%20on%20De%20Tomaso....&In-Reply-To=%3C3c4293.32525d66.43a5bf90%40aol.com%3E
> 2. http://www.edizioniilfiorino.com/catalogo/sport/0488/automobili-de-tomaso.ht
> 3. http://www.amazon.it/Automobili-De-Tomaso-Dante-Candini/dp/8875495947
> 4. http://www.edizioniilfiorino.com/catalogo/sport/0488/automobili-de-toma
> 5. http://www.amazon.it/Automobili-De-Tomaso-Dante-Candini/dp/8875495947
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
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>
> -------------- next part --------------
> I agree with this, but think we should go should go a step further and
> have POCA sanction the book.
>
> Mike and everyone else that has DeTomaso history knowledge should put
> it all into a definitive book on Detomaso, the person and the cars, and
> POCA endorse it as the most complete, factual book on the marque. It
> might be a multi-volume set and POCA might want to fund and own the
> rights or let someone else publish it. If the club agrees to the
> concept, a committee can be created to work out the details.
>
> I suggested to our new President that the club needs to sanction an
> official DeTomaso registry to have an official documentation of what
> cars were produced and how many are still remaining. There are a
> number of people around the world with unofficial registries, these
> should all be combined in a listing that POCA maintains. I offered to
> help with this.
>
> Clubs like Shelby and Ferrari have official registries and history
> books, I think it is time for POCA to step up to this. But we can't
> lose our roots of providing social events and member activities.
>
> Scott Martin
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
> To: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
> Sent: Sat, Dec 19, 2015 12:06 am
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Mike's tale of De Tomaso book
> I have two questions for Mike and a comment to All,
> 1. When will "YOU" write a BOOK? You are long over due. Obviously you
> have far
> more information than even a gifted bear; you've got the knowledge of
> historical
> facts, technical facts, and all those thousands of pictures you've
> taken and
> gathered through so many years, is it not yet obvious that YOU should
> be the
> author of your own book? Heck... the letter you wrote here is nearly a
> book in
> itself.
> 2. Just curious, did there happen to be a picture of my little ole car
> in those
> batches of familial photos? : )
> 3. Cheers and Happiness to All. It's going to be a really GOOD YEAR!
> (better be!) I even agree with what Judy said in her last two posts.
> Laurie
> _______________________________________________________________________
> ______________________
> [DeTomaso] On writing a book on De Tomaso....
> MikeLDrew at aol.com [1]MikeLDrew at aol.com
> Fri Dec 18 12:59:12 MST 2015
> __________________________________________________________________
> All,
> Herewith, my thoughts on the trials and tribulations of producing a
> book on
> De Tomasoa|.
> More than a year ago, I got an e-mail out of the blue from Daniele
> Pozzi, a
> college professor in Italy. He was committed to writing a book on De
> Tomaso, focusing on the man and his life rather than on the cars. He
> had my
> address (among numerous others) as a potential source of help and
> information.
> I replied right away, but heard nothing back.
> Six or eight months later, I was again contacted by Dr. Pozzi. This
> time
> when I replied, I mentioned I had replied earlier and learned for some
> reason he had never received that. He seemed quite excited when he
> learned of
> my position as Profiles editor, and my ability to support him with
> images
> etc.
> We went back and forth, as he discussed his vision for the book. He
> wanted to tell the whole story of De Tomaso (so he said) and end it
> with coverag
> e
> of how De Tomaso has touched the lives of thousands of people around
> the
> world, and made it possible to forge lasting friendships through his
> cars.
> Thus he was especially keen to get photos and information from club
> meetings
> such as the POCA Fun Rally and the various European meetings.
> It took me a few weeks, but I scoured my archives and, not wanting to
> leave
> anything out, I gave him over 46,000 (!) individual images I'd
> collected
> over the years. I did help by filtering them somewhat, and I put
> crucial
> historical images whose value I thought was important in key folders,
> and
> organized the others in various contexts (Fun Rally photos, Euro
> meeting photos,
> individual car photos, people photos etc.). I burned them to USB sticks
> and sent them to him. During this time, he had been peppering me with
> questions, asking me to fact-check certain technical details (he
> appears to be
> more of a historian than a traditional 'car guy'), etc.
> The Italian postal service leaves more than a bit to be desired, and it
> took almost two months (!) for the sticks to arrive. But in the
> meantime,
> things had taken a bit of a turn.
> It was never clear to me if Dr. Pozzi had the idea to write a book, and
> then found a publisher to produce it, or if the publisher wanted to
> produce a
> book, and found a guy to write it. But clearly their relationship was
> not
> all that it could have been. Pozzi had a very clear image in his mind
> of
> what he wanted his book to be--he wanted it to be positive and
> uplifting, and
> a primary goal was to show the happiness that De Tomaso's works have
> generated among many people like us.
> The publisher had different ideas, and thought that was totally stupid.
> They wanted a straight historical biography without all the happy
> kumbyah
> stuff. There was a meeting in the publisher's office, and one can
> imagine
> what an Italian business confrontation looks/sounds like. Lots of
> yelling and
> arm-waving, and at the end of it, they took his manuscript and fired
> him
> from the project!
> My images arrived just after this all happened, so none of them were
> incorporated into the book. (The only things he got from me that were
> included
> in the book were photos of Dave Jacobsen's beautiful Pre-L Pantera,
> which was
> a Profiles centerfold car--I had sent those to him earlier, and
> numerous
> photos of that car are scattered throughout the book including on the
> cover,
> and Dave is rightly given photo credit).
> Shortly afterwards, you may recall that Ed Mendez was contacted by a US
> publisher looking for some help in producing an English-language
> version of the
> book, and he shared that info with us. Several of you expressed
> interest,
> but I contacted the publisher directly and asked him WTF since I was
> already deeply involved in the project?
> The publisher immediately phoned me in surprise, as he had no
> knowledge.
> It turns out that there was a big book fair in New York City, and the
> Italian company had showed off an Italian-language mockup of the book,
> and was
> seeking a US partner to produce an English-language version alongside
> of it.
> Both editions would be printed at the same time in Italy. They assured
> everyone that this was a turn-key, ready-for-print book that only
> needed
> translation, so Dalton Books bought it.
> This outfit is known for producing really, really, REALLY high-quality
> car
> books--limited-edition leather bound box sets on the Rolls-Royce Silver
> Ghost that sell for $1750, that kind of thing.
> They hired an Italian-to-English translator to translate the text (one
> who
> supposedly had a good grasp of both languages but didn't really know
> automobiles specifically), and when that was done, they sent the text
> to me for
> fact-checking and editing.
> The translation left a lot to be desired; there was more than a little
> flat-tire English, where it would be obvious that the writer didn't
> speak the
> language fluently, and re-writing the factually correct text into
> proper,
> flowing English was a big job. However, there were a LOT of factual and
> technical errors, which took quite some time to sort through and
> correct. That
> process alone probably took me 20-30 hours, as when I read something
> that I
> believed to be wrong, I had to be able to prove it to them (and myself)
> so had
> to do a lot of independent research. The Italian publisher got quite
> annoyed, because I pointed out loads of technical and historical
> inaccuracies,
> which needed to be corrected in the English language version, and then
> they
> felt compelled to change those same errors in the Italian version.
> (One example--Pozzi got it backwards and thought the Vallelunga
> prototypes
> were made in fiberglass and the production cars were in aluminum, but
> we all
> know that is demonstrably untrue; there are only three known aluminum
> Fissore prototypes and all the Ghia cars, including the one De Tomaso
> owns today
> ,
> are fiberglass).
> There were some 'facts' that I believed were incorrect, but I couldn't
> prove it. I would then ask Pozzi to seek confirmation from his sources,
> as I
> thought perhaps he had got a story turned around or something? But by
> this
> time, he had lost all interest in cooperating with the project that had
> been
> taken away from him, and although he was very polite and friendly to
> me, he
> basically said he was too busy to devote any more time to it, and told
> the
> Italian publishers to take a flying leapa|.
> More disturbing to me, however, is that the book ended very prematurely
> in
> the story. Most people know that De Tomaso suffered a terrible stroke
> in
> 1993. It left him permanently paralyzed and unable to speak, but his
> brain
> was completely unaffected. He then entered into an absolutely heroic
> period of intensive rehab, determined to conquer his condition. He
> gradually
> improved somewhat, and was able to communicate in a very guttural
> manner,
> which only a handful of people were able to understand.
> Even at that, he successfully negotiated the sale of his 51% ownership
> of
> Maserati to Ferrari for many millions of Euros, then launched the De
> Tomaso
> Bigua, which then evolved into a joint venture with Qvale, and then
> blew up
> spectacularly. Even as that was crashing to earth, he was involved with
> a
> grand scheme with backing of the Italian government to import sturdy,
> simple
> Russian 4x4 SUVs in KDC (knocked-down kit) form; the trucks would
> arrive as
> 1:1 scale kits, and would be assembled in a new purpose-built factory
> in the
> economically depressed south of Italy, and would be powered by a
> Belgian-made diesel engine sourced from a partnership with Chrysler.
> This was
> a VERY
> complicated deal with a lot of moving parts.
> The profits from this enterprise would then be funneled to De Tomaso
> Automobili, who would use them to produce a new Vallelunga (Porsche
> Boxter-competitor, likely powered by a Saab turbo motor), and
> ultimately a new P
> antera.
> Unfortunately, that whole deal blew up too, after De Tomaso had
> accepted a
> huge pile of Euros from the Italian government. When the plug got
> pulled
> and he was unable to pay it back, De Tomaso went into liquidation, then
> the
> brand was sold, and more Italian economic soap opera took place for a
> few
> years afterwards, with the family not involved.
> Anyway, even though both the Qvale and SUV deals fell apart, they were
> VERY
> ambitious projects, and were not merely vaporware--real cars were
> produced
> in both cases. This was a very significant and tragic end to the story
> of
> De Tomaso, both the man and the corporation--and it was completely
> absent
> from the book.
> When I read it and found this out, I sent a strong WTFO note to both
> English and Italian publishers and the author? Pozzi then confessed
> that when
> the project first started. Isabelle and Santiago promised full
> cooperation
> (without which the book would have been more or less impossible) under
> the
> condition that Pozzi agree to conceal the truth about anything that
> happened
> after 1993!
> What kind of historian or journalist would agree to such terms? In any
> case, that's the deal Pozzi made, so all talk of those later failed
> ventures
> was eliminated. I find it especially pathetic, because if you are
> really
> interested in the MAN, it is something the family should be proud of.
> But
> instead, they are ashamed of the fact that the ventures failed and want
> to
> whitewash history and pretend they never happened.
> So the text in the book more or less indicates that he had a stroke in
> 1993, then sat around in a poopy diaper, drooling on himself until he
> died in
> 2003. To me, THAT is pathetic, but that's how they wanted the story
> told.
> Charlie and I know for a fact that's not true, because when we met him
> in
> 2001, he was absolutely FEROCIOUS, animated, loud, arrogant, and full
> of piss
> and vinegar. Although I happened to feel that he was a complete jerk
> (as
> did seemingly everybody else who knew him), he was far from the
> vegetable the
> book makes him out to be.
> So, with all that said, when the book arrived the other day, I was
> absolutely blown away at the high quality of the resultant effort. The
> book is
> considerably larger than I was expecting (it's 13x11 inches) and the
> photography is simply stunning. There are beautiful photo spreads of
> most of t
> he
> cars in the De Tomaso family collection (although since they don't have
> a GT5
> or GT5-S, those are absent, and apparently their Pantera Si broke down
> and
> they didn't want to bother towing it to be photographed so it's absent
> too).
> There are historical photos directly from De Tomaso's family archives
> that
> have never been seen before, and will never be seen anywhere else.
> And there's the story. Given their well-established propensity for
> shading the truth, one has to wonder exactly how accurate it all is,
> but I'm
> willing to give them the benefit of the doubt about their telling of
> their early
> history at least. It's certainly educational (I learned a lot!) and
> fascinating.
> So at the end of the day, even with all the caveats and asterisks, this
> is
> far and away the best De Tomaso book ever made, and if you have even a
> passing interest in the marque, you owe it to yourself to get a copy!
> Mike
> P.S. It's worth noting that purely by coincidence, another
> Italian-market
> book on De Tomaso has just been printed; it was released on September
> 30th.
> It's in Italian only and seems to be a much more modest effort (208
> pages, paperback?). I've only seen pictures of the book, but the few
> pages I
> saw revealed images I'd never seen elsewhere, so that might be worth
> digging
> up as well if you're really a nut about this stuffa|.
> Here it is on the publisher's website:
> [2][1]http://www.edizioniilfiorino.com/catalogo/sport/0488/automobili-d
> e-tomaso.ht
> m
> Not available on Amazon USA, but it is available on Amazon Italia:
> [3][2]http://www.amazon.it/Automobili-De-Tomaso-Dante-Candini/dp/887549
> 5947
> and from numerous other European retailers as wella|.
> -------------- next part --------------
> All,
> Herewith, my thoughts on the trials and tribulations of producing a
> book on De Tomasoa|.
> More than a year ago, I got an e-mail out of the blue from Daniele
> Pozzi, a college professor in Italy. He was committed to writing a
> book on De Tomaso, focusing on the man and his life rather than on the
> cars. He had my address (among numerous others) as a potential source
> of help and information. I replied right away, but heard nothing back.
> Six or eight months later, I was again contacted by Dr. Pozzi. This
> time when I replied, I mentioned I had replied earlier and learned for
> some reason he had never received that. He seemed quite excited when
> he learned of my position as Profiles editor, and my ability to support
> him with images etc.
> We went back and forth, as he discussed his vision for the book. He
> wanted to tell the whole story of De Tomaso (so he said) and end it
> with coverage of how De Tomaso has touched the lives of thousands of
> people around the world, and made it possible to forge lasting
> friendships through his cars. Thus he was especially keen to get
> photos and information from club meetings such as the POCA Fun Rally
> and the various European meetings.
> It took me a few weeks, but I scoured my archives and, not wanting to
> leave anything out, I gave him over 46,000 (!) individual images I'd
> collected over the years. I did help by filtering them somewhat, and I
> put crucial historical images whose value I thought was important in
> key folders, and organized the others in various contexts (Fun Rally
> photos, Euro meeting photos, individual car photos, people photos
> etc.). I burned them to USB sticks and sent them to him. During this
> time, he had been peppering me with questions, asking me to fact-check
> certain technical details (he appears to be more of a historian than a
> traditional 'car guy'), etc.
> The Italian postal service leaves more than a bit to be desired, and it
> took almost two months (!) for the sticks to arrive. But in the
> meantime, things had taken a bit of a turn.
> It was never clear to me if Dr. Pozzi had the idea to write a book, and
> then found a publisher to produce it, or if the publisher wanted to
> produce a book, and found a guy to write it. But clearly their
> relationship was not all that it could have been. Pozzi had a very
> clear image in his mind of what he wanted his book to be--he wanted it
> to be positive and uplifting, and a primary goal was to show the
> happiness that De Tomaso's works have generated among many people like
> us.
> The publisher had different ideas, and thought that was totally
> stupid. They wanted a straight historical biography without all the
> happy kumbyah stuff. There was a meeting in the publisher's office,
> and one can imagine what an Italian business confrontation looks/sounds
> like. Lots of yelling and arm-waving, and at the end of it, they took
> his manuscript and fired him from the project!
> My images arrived just after this all happened, so none of them were
> incorporated into the book. (The only things he got from me that were
> included in the book were photos of Dave Jacobsen's beautiful Pre-L
> Pantera, which was a Profiles centerfold car--I had sent those to him
> earlier, and numerous photos of that car are scattered throughout the
> book including on the cover, and Dave is rightly given photo credit).
> Shortly afterwards, you may recall that Ed Mendez was contacted by a US
> publisher looking for some help in producing an English-language
> version of the book, and he shared that info with us. Several of you
> expressed interest, but I contacted the publisher directly and asked
> him WTF since I was already deeply involved in the project?
> The publisher immediately phoned me in surprise, as he had no
> knowledge.
> It turns out that there was a big book fair in New York City, and the
> Italian company had showed off an Italian-language mockup of the book,
> and was seeking a US partner to produce an English-language version
> alongside of it. Both editions would be printed at the same time in
> Italy. They assured everyone that this was a turn-key, ready-for-print
> book that only needed translation, so Dalton Books bought it.
> This outfit is known for producing really, really, REALLY high-quality
> car books--limited-edition leather bound box sets on the Rolls-Royce
> Silver Ghost that sell for $1750, that kind of thing.
> They hired an Italian-to-English translator to translate the text (one
> who supposedly had a good grasp of both languages but didn't really
> know automobiles specifically), and when that was done, they sent the
> text to me for fact-checking and editing.
> The translation left a lot to be desired; there was more than a little
> flat-tire English, where it would be obvious that the writer didn't
> speak the language fluently, and re-writing the factually correct text
> into proper, flowing English was a big job. However, there were a LOT
> of factual and technical errors, which took quite some time to sort
> through and correct. That process alone probably took me 20-30 hours,
> as when I read something that I believed to be wrong, I had to be able
> to prove it to them (and myself) so had to do a lot of independent
> research. The Italian publisher got quite annoyed, because I pointed
> out loads of technical and historical inaccuracies, which needed to be
> corrected in the English language version, and then they felt compelled
> to change those same errors in the Italian version.
> (One example--Pozzi got it backwards and thought the Vallelunga
> prototypes were made in fiberglass and the production cars were in
> aluminum, but we all know that is demonstrably untrue; there are only
> three known aluminum Fissore prototypes and all the Ghia cars,
> including the one De Tomaso owns today, are fiberglass).
> There were some 'facts' that I believed were incorrect, but I couldn't
> prove it. I would then ask Pozzi to seek confirmation from his
> sources, as I thought perhaps he had got a story turned around or
> something? But by this time, he had lost all interest in cooperating
> with the project that had been taken away from him, and although he was
> very polite and friendly to me, he basically said he was too busy to
> devote any more time to it, and told the Italian publishers to take a
> flying leapa|.
> More disturbing to me, however, is that the book ended very prematurely
> in the story. Most people know that De Tomaso suffered a terrible
> stroke in 1993. It left him permanently paralyzed and unable to speak,
> but his brain was completely unaffected. He then entered into an
> absolutely heroic period of intensive rehab, determined to conquer his
> condition. He gradually improved somewhat, and was able to communicate
> in a very guttural manner, which only a handful of people were able to
> understand.
> Even at that, he successfully negotiated the sale of his 51% ownership
> of Maserati to Ferrari for many millions of Euros, then launched the De
> Tomaso Bigua, which then evolved into a joint venture with Qvale, and
> then blew up spectacularly. Even as that was crashing to earth, he was
> involved with a grand scheme with backing of the Italian government to
> import sturdy, simple Russian 4x4 SUVs in KDC (knocked-down kit) form;
> the trucks would arrive as 1:1 scale kits, and would be assembled in a
> new purpose-built factory in the economically depressed south of Italy,
> and would be powered by a Belgian-made diesel engine sourced from a
> partnership with Chrysler. This was a VERY complicated deal with a lot
> of moving parts.
> The profits from this enterprise would then be funneled to De Tomaso
> Automobili, who would use them to produce a new Vallelunga (Porsche
> Boxter-competitor, likely powered by a Saab turbo motor), and
> ultimately a new Pantera.
> Unfortunately, that whole deal blew up too, after De Tomaso had
> accepted a huge pile of Euros from the Italian government. When the
> plug got pulled and he was unable to pay it back, De Tomaso went into
> liquidation, then the brand was sold, and more Italian economic soap
> opera took place for a few years afterwards, with the family not
> involved.
> Anyway, even though both the Qvale and SUV deals fell apart, they were
> VERY ambitious projects, and were not merely vaporware--real cars were
> produced in both cases. This was a very significant and tragic end to
> the story of De Tomaso, both the man and the corporation--and it was
> completely absent from the book.
> When I read it and found this out, I sent a strong WTFO note to both
> English and Italian publishers and the author? Pozzi then confessed
> that when the project first started. Isabelle and Santiago promised
> full cooperation (without which the book would have been more or less
> impossible) under the condition that Pozzi agree to conceal the truth
> about anything that happened after 1993!
> What kind of historian or journalist would agree to such terms? In any
> case, that's the deal Pozzi made, so all talk of those later failed
> ventures was eliminated. I find it especially pathetic, because if you
> are really interested in the MAN, it is something the family should be
> proud of. But instead, they are ashamed of the fact that the ventures
> failed and want to whitewash history and pretend they never happened.
> So the text in the book more or less indicates that he had a stroke in
> 1993, then sat around in a poopy diaper, drooling on himself until he
> died in 2003. To me, THAT is pathetic, but that's how they wanted the
> story told. Charlie and I know for a fact that's not true, because
> when we met him in 2001, he was absolutely FEROCIOUS, animated, loud,
> arrogant, and full of piss and vinegar. Although I happened to feel
> that he was a complete jerk (as did seemingly everybody else who knew
> him), he was far from the vegetable the book makes him out to be.
> So, with all that said, when the book arrived the other day, I was
> absolutely blown away at the high quality of the resultant effort. The
> book is considerably larger than I was expecting (it's 13x11 inches)
> and the photography is simply stunning. There are beautiful photo
> spreads of most of the cars in the De Tomaso family collection
> (although since they don't have a GT5 or GT5-S, those are absent, and
> apparently their Pantera Si broke down and they didn't want to bother
> towing it to be photographed so it's absent too). There are historical
> photos directly from De Tomaso's family archives that have never been
> seen before, and will never be seen anywhere else.
> And there's the story. Given their well-established propensity for
> shading the truth, one has to wonder exactly how accurate it all is,
> but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt about their
> telling of their early history at least. It's certainly educational (I
> learned a lot!) and fascinating.
> So at the end of the day, even with all the caveats and asterisks, this
> is far and away the best De Tomaso book ever made, and if you have even
> a passing interest in the marque, you owe it to yourself to get a copy!
> Mike
> P.S. It's worth noting that purely by coincidence, another
> Italian-market book on De Tomaso has just been printed; it was released
> on September 30th. It's in Italian only and seems to be a much more
> modest effort (208 pages, paperback?). I've only seen pictures of the
> book, but the few pages I saw revealed images I'd never seen elsewhere,
> so that might be worth digging up as well if you're really a nut about
> this stuffa|.
> Here it is on the publisher's website:
> [4][3]http://www.edizioniilfiorino.com/catalogo/sport/0488/automobili-d
> e-toma
> so.htm
> Not available on Amazon USA, but it is available on Amazon Italia:
> [5][4]http://www.amazon.it/Automobili-De-Tomaso-Dante-Candini/dp/887549
> 5947
> and from numerous other European retailers as wella|.
> References
> 1.
> [5]mailto:detomaso%40poca.com?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BDeTomaso%5D%20On%20wri
> ting%20a%20book%20on%20De%20Tomaso....&In-Reply-To=%3C3c4293.32525d66.4
> 3a5bf90%40aol.com%3E
> 2.
> [6]http://www.edizioniilfiorino.com/catalogo/sport/0488/automobili-de-t
> omaso.ht
> 3.
> [7]http://www.amazon.it/Automobili-De-Tomaso-Dante-Candini/dp/887549594
> 7
> 4.
> [8]http://www.edizioniilfiorino.com/catalogo/sport/0488/automobili-de-t
> oma
> 5.
> [9]http://www.amazon.it/Automobili-De-Tomaso-Dante-Candini/dp/887549594
> 7
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [10]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [11]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
>
> References
>
> 1. http://www.edizioniilfiorino.com/catalogo/sport/0488/automobili-de-tomaso.ht
> 2. http://www.amazon.it/Automobili-De-Tomaso-Dante-Candini/dp/8875495947
> 3. http://www.edizioniilfiorino.com/catalogo/sport/0488/automobili-de-toma
> 4. http://www.amazon.it/Automobili-De-Tomaso-Dante-Candini/dp/8875495947
> 5. mailto:detomaso%40poca.com?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BDeTomaso%5D%20On%20writing%20a%20book%20on%20De%20Tomaso....&In-Reply-To=%3C3c4293.32525d66.43a5bf90%40aol.com%3E
> 6. http://www.edizioniilfiorino.com/catalogo/sport/0488/automobili-de-tomaso.ht
> 7. http://www.amazon.it/Automobili-De-Tomaso-Dante-Candini/dp/8875495947
> 8. http://www.edizioniilfiorino.com/catalogo/sport/0488/automobili-de-toma
> 9. http://www.amazon.it/Automobili-De-Tomaso-Dante-Candini/dp/8875495947
> 10. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 11. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2015 14:39:21 -0800
> From: Effie Richards <erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>
> To: DeTomaso at poca.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Test
> Message-ID: <CBAAD88E-BAB1-44FD-8E36-69F5B2B16C1D at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
>
> Sent from Effie's iPhone
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2015 15:25:47 -0800
> From: Effie Richards <erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>
> To: via DeTomaso P6746--- <detomaso at poca.com>
> Cc: DeTomaso fastgrandma via <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA financials
> Message-ID: <B13B726A-86F2-4F05-94C3-A0E02AEE9558 at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Thank you for your message, Bob. I'm really trying to understand it.
> Although I' m not interested in POCAs financial status, I find this statement almost a bit hostile.
>
> I don't think anyone is interested in filing a form with the IRS to see the tax returns, I believe they were asking what was the balance in the treasury and what was the plan for using it, more or less.
>
> I'm a member of other organizations and they provide good standing members with financial info, at least upon request, privately perhaps?
>
> As far as I'm concerned, You can keep the POCAs funds a secret between you and the IRS, but , there is such thing as diplomacy (this word comes from the Greek language, like democracy which is the opposite of dictatorship, I should know) in communications with your members if POCA is at all interested in attracting new ones.
>
>
> Sent from Effie's iPhone
>
>> On Dec 20, 2015, at 12:57 PM, P6746--- via DeTomaso <detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
>>
>> For anyone who is interested, all POCA financial information is
>> available for public inspection at the IRS. All you need to do is file
>> Form 4506-A with the IRS. Bob Reid
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2015 15:28:36 -0800
> From: Effie Richards <erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>
> To: via DeTomaso P6746--- <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA financials
> Message-ID: <8195D027-5140-4501-AB1A-A7C3E92E5B51 at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
>
> Sent from Effie's iPhone
>
>> On Dec 20, 2015, at 3:25 PM, Effie Richards <erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Thank you for your message, Bob. I'm really trying to understand it.
>> Although I' m not interested in POCAs financial status, I find this statement almost a bit hostile.
>>
>> I don't think anyone is interested in filing a form with the IRS to see the tax returns, I believe they were asking what was the balance in the treasury and what was the plan for using it, more or less.
>>
>> I'm a member of other organizations and they provide good standing members with financial info, at least upon request, privately perhaps?
>>
>> As far as I'm concerned, You can keep the POCAs funds a secret between you and the IRS, but , there is such thing as diplomacy (this word comes from the Greek language, like democracy which is the opposite of dictatorship, I should know) in communications with your members if POCA is at all interested in attracting new ones.
>>
>>
>> Sent from Effie's iPhone
>>
>>> On Dec 20, 2015, at 12:57 PM, P6746--- via DeTomaso <detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> For anyone who is interested, all POCA financial information is
>>> available for public inspection at the IRS. All you need to do is file
>>> Form 4506-A with the IRS. Bob Reid
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>>
>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2015 18:30:21 -0500
> From: "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <byrdjf at embarqmail.com>
> To: <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Mike's tale of De Tomaso book
> Message-ID: <000001d13b7e$65fa5e00$31ef1a00$@com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I like that!
> Joe / NC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Scott Martin
> Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2015 17:34 PM
> To: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Mike's tale of De Tomaso book
>
> I agree with this, but think we should go should go a step further and have POCA sanction the book.
>
>
> Mike and everyone else that has DeTomaso history knowledge should put it all into a definitive book on Detomaso, the person and the cars, and POCA endorse it as the most complete, factual book on the marque. It might be a multi-volume set and POCA might want to fund and own the rights or let someone else publish it. If the club agrees to the concept, a committee can be created to work out the details.
>
>
> I suggested to our new President that the club needs to sanction an official DeTomaso registry to have an official documentation of what cars were produced and how many are still remaining. There are a number of people around the world with unofficial registries, these should all be combined in a listing that POCA maintains. I offered to help with this.
>
>
> Clubs like Shelby and Ferrari have official registries and history books, I think it is time for POCA to step up to this. But we can't lose our roots of providing social events and member activities.
>
>
> Scott Martin
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
> To: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
> Sent: Sat, Dec 19, 2015 12:06 am
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Mike's tale of De Tomaso book
>
> I have two questions for Mike and a comment to All,
>
> 1. When will "YOU" write a BOOK? You are long over due. Obviously you have far more information than even a gifted bear; you've got the knowledge of historical
> facts, technical facts, and all those thousands of pictures you've taken and
> gathered through so many years, is it not yet obvious that YOU should be the author of your own book? Heck... the letter you wrote here is nearly a book in
> itself.
>
> 2. Just curious, did there happen to be a picture of my little ole car in those
> batches of familial photos? : )
>
> 3. Cheers and Happiness to All. It's going to be a really GOOD YEAR!
> (better be!) I even agree with what Judy said in her last two posts.
>
> Laurie
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> ______________________
>
> [DeTomaso] On writing a book on De Tomaso....
>
> MikeLDrew at aol.com [1]MikeLDrew at aol.com
> Fri Dec 18 12:59:12 MST 2015
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> All,
>
> Herewith, my thoughts on the trials and tribulations of producing a book on De Tomasoa|.
>
> More than a year ago, I got an e-mail out of the blue from Daniele Pozzi, a
> college professor in Italy. He was committed to writing a book on De
> Tomaso, focusing on the man and his life rather than on the cars. He had my
> address (among numerous others) as a potential source of help and information.
> I replied right away, but heard nothing back.
>
> Six or eight months later, I was again contacted by Dr. Pozzi. This time
> when I replied, I mentioned I had replied earlier and learned for some
> reason he had never received that. He seemed quite excited when he learned of
> my position as Profiles editor, and my ability to support him with images etc.
>
> We went back and forth, as he discussed his vision for the book. He
> wanted to tell the whole story of De Tomaso (so he said) and end it with coverag e of how De Tomaso has touched the lives of thousands of people around the world, and made it possible to forge lasting friendships through his cars.
> Thus he was especially keen to get photos and information from club meetings such as the POCA Fun Rally and the various European meetings.
>
> It took me a few weeks, but I scoured my archives and, not wanting to leave anything out, I gave him over 46,000 (!) individual images I'd collected
> over the years. I did help by filtering them somewhat, and I put crucial
> historical images whose value I thought was important in key folders, and organized the others in various contexts (Fun Rally photos, Euro meeting photos,
>
> individual car photos, people photos etc.). I burned them to USB sticks
> and sent them to him. During this time, he had been peppering me with
> questions, asking me to fact-check certain technical details (he appears to be more of a historian than a traditional 'car guy'), etc.
>
> The Italian postal service leaves more than a bit to be desired, and it took almost two months (!) for the sticks to arrive. But in the meantime, things had taken a bit of a turn.
>
> It was never clear to me if Dr. Pozzi had the idea to write a book, and then found a publisher to produce it, or if the publisher wanted to produce a
> book, and found a guy to write it. But clearly their relationship was not
> all that it could have been. Pozzi had a very clear image in his mind of what he wanted his book to be--he wanted it to be positive and uplifting, and a primary goal was to show the happiness that De Tomaso's works have generated among many people like us.
>
> The publisher had different ideas, and thought that was totally stupid.
> They wanted a straight historical biography without all the happy kumbyah
> stuff. There was a meeting in the publisher's office, and one can imagine
> what an Italian business confrontation looks/sounds like. Lots of yelling and
> arm-waving, and at the end of it, they took his manuscript and fired him from the project!
>
> My images arrived just after this all happened, so none of them were
> incorporated into the book. (The only things he got from me that were included
>
> in the book were photos of Dave Jacobsen's beautiful Pre-L Pantera, which was a Profiles centerfold car--I had sent those to him earlier, and numerous photos of that car are scattered throughout the book including on the cover, and Dave is rightly given photo credit).
>
> Shortly afterwards, you may recall that Ed Mendez was contacted by a US publisher looking for some help in producing an English-language version of the
> book, and he shared that info with us. Several of you expressed interest,
> but I contacted the publisher directly and asked him WTF since I was already deeply involved in the project?
>
> The publisher immediately phoned me in surprise, as he had no knowledge.
>
> It turns out that there was a big book fair in New York City, and the Italian company had showed off an Italian-language mockup of the book, and was seeking a US partner to produce an English-language version alongside of it.
> Both editions would be printed at the same time in Italy. They assured
> everyone that this was a turn-key, ready-for-print book that only needed translation, so Dalton Books bought it.
>
> This outfit is known for producing really, really, REALLY high-quality car books--limited-edition leather bound box sets on the Rolls-Royce Silver Ghost that sell for $1750, that kind of thing.
>
> They hired an Italian-to-English translator to translate the text (one who supposedly had a good grasp of both languages but didn't really know automobiles specifically), and when that was done, they sent the text to me for fact-checking and editing.
>
> The translation left a lot to be desired; there was more than a little flat-tire English, where it would be obvious that the writer didn't speak the language fluently, and re-writing the factually correct text into proper,
> flowing English was a big job. However, there were a LOT of factual and
> technical errors, which took quite some time to sort through and correct. That process alone probably took me 20-30 hours, as when I read something that I believed to be wrong, I had to be able to prove it to them (and myself) so had
> to do a lot of independent research. The Italian publisher got quite
> annoyed, because I pointed out loads of technical and historical inaccuracies, which needed to be corrected in the English language version, and then they felt compelled to change those same errors in the Italian version.
>
> (One example--Pozzi got it backwards and thought the Vallelunga prototypes were made in fiberglass and the production cars were in aluminum, but we all know that is demonstrably untrue; there are only three known aluminum Fissore prototypes and all the Ghia cars, including the one De Tomaso owns today , are fiberglass).
>
> There were some 'facts' that I believed were incorrect, but I couldn't
> prove it. I would then ask Pozzi to seek confirmation from his sources, as I
> thought perhaps he had got a story turned around or something? But by this
> time, he had lost all interest in cooperating with the project that had been taken away from him, and although he was very polite and friendly to me, he basically said he was too busy to devote any more time to it, and told the Italian publishers to take a flying leapa|.
>
> More disturbing to me, however, is that the book ended very prematurely in
> the story. Most people know that De Tomaso suffered a terrible stroke in
> 1993. It left him permanently paralyzed and unable to speak, but his brain
> was completely unaffected. He then entered into an absolutely heroic
> period of intensive rehab, determined to conquer his condition. He gradually
> improved somewhat, and was able to communicate in a very guttural manner, which only a handful of people were able to understand.
>
> Even at that, he successfully negotiated the sale of his 51% ownership of Maserati to Ferrari for many millions of Euros, then launched the De Tomaso Bigua, which then evolved into a joint venture with Qvale, and then blew up
> spectacularly. Even as that was crashing to earth, he was involved with a
> grand scheme with backing of the Italian government to import sturdy, simple Russian 4x4 SUVs in KDC (knocked-down kit) form; the trucks would arrive as
> 1:1 scale kits, and would be assembled in a new purpose-built factory in the economically depressed south of Italy, and would be powered by a
> Belgian-made diesel engine sourced from a partnership with Chrysler. This was
> a VERY
> complicated deal with a lot of moving parts.
>
> The profits from this enterprise would then be funneled to De Tomaso Automobili, who would use them to produce a new Vallelunga (Porsche Boxter-competitor, likely powered by a Saab turbo motor), and ultimately a new P antera.
>
> Unfortunately, that whole deal blew up too, after De Tomaso had accepted a
> huge pile of Euros from the Italian government. When the plug got pulled
> and he was unable to pay it back, De Tomaso went into liquidation, then the brand was sold, and more Italian economic soap opera took place for a few years afterwards, with the family not involved.
>
> Anyway, even though both the Qvale and SUV deals fell apart, they were VERY ambitious projects, and were not merely vaporware--real cars were produced in both cases. This was a very significant and tragic end to the story of De Tomaso, both the man and the corporation--and it was completely absent from the book.
>
> When I read it and found this out, I sent a strong WTFO note to both
> English and Italian publishers and the author? Pozzi then confessed that when
> the project first started. Isabelle and Santiago promised full cooperation (without which the book would have been more or less impossible) under the condition that Pozzi agree to conceal the truth about anything that happened after 1993!
>
> What kind of historian or journalist would agree to such terms? In any
> case, that's the deal Pozzi made, so all talk of those later failed ventures
> was eliminated. I find it especially pathetic, because if you are really
> interested in the MAN, it is something the family should be proud of. But
> instead, they are ashamed of the fact that the ventures failed and want to whitewash history and pretend they never happened.
>
> So the text in the book more or less indicates that he had a stroke in 1993, then sat around in a poopy diaper, drooling on himself until he died in
> 2003. To me, THAT is pathetic, but that's how they wanted the story told.
> Charlie and I know for a fact that's not true, because when we met him in 2001, he was absolutely FEROCIOUS, animated, loud, arrogant, and full of piss
> and vinegar. Although I happened to feel that he was a complete jerk (as
> did seemingly everybody else who knew him), he was far from the vegetable the book makes him out to be.
>
> So, with all that said, when the book arrived the other day, I was
> absolutely blown away at the high quality of the resultant effort. The book is
>
> considerably larger than I was expecting (it's 13x11 inches) and the
> photography is simply stunning. There are beautiful photo spreads of most of t
> he
> cars in the De Tomaso family collection (although since they don't have a GT5 or GT5-S, those are absent, and apparently their Pantera Si broke down and they didn't want to bother towing it to be photographed so it's absent too).
> There are historical photos directly from De Tomaso's family archives that have never been seen before, and will never be seen anywhere else.
>
> And there's the story. Given their well-established propensity for
> shading the truth, one has to wonder exactly how accurate it all is, but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt about their telling of their early
>
> history at least. It's certainly educational (I learned a lot!) and
> fascinating.
>
> So at the end of the day, even with all the caveats and asterisks, this is far and away the best De Tomaso book ever made, and if you have even a passing interest in the marque, you owe it to yourself to get a copy!
>
> Mike
>
> P.S. It's worth noting that purely by coincidence, another Italian-market
> book on De Tomaso has just been printed; it was released on September 30th.
> It's in Italian only and seems to be a much more modest effort (208
> pages, paperback?). I've only seen pictures of the book, but the few pages I
> saw revealed images I'd never seen elsewhere, so that might be worth digging up as well if you're really a nut about this stuffa|.
>
> Here it is on the publisher's website:
>
> [2]http://www.edizioniilfiorino.com/catalogo/sport/0488/automobili-de-tomaso.ht
> m
>
> Not available on Amazon USA, but it is available on Amazon Italia:
>
> [3]http://www.amazon.it/Automobili-De-Tomaso-Dante-Candini/dp/8875495947
>
> and from numerous other European retailers as wella|.
> -------------- next part --------------
> All,
> Herewith, my thoughts on the trials and tribulations of producing a
> book on De Tomasoa|.
> More than a year ago, I got an e-mail out of the blue from Daniele
> Pozzi, a college professor in Italy. He was committed to writing a
> book on De Tomaso, focusing on the man and his life rather than on the
> cars. He had my address (among numerous others) as a potential source
> of help and information. I replied right away, but heard nothing back.
> Six or eight months later, I was again contacted by Dr. Pozzi. This
> time when I replied, I mentioned I had replied earlier and learned for
> some reason he had never received that. He seemed quite excited when
> he learned of my position as Profiles editor, and my ability to support
> him with images etc.
> We went back and forth, as he discussed his vision for the book. He
> wanted to tell the whole story of De Tomaso (so he said) and end it
> with coverage of how De Tomaso has touched the lives of thousands of
> people around the world, and made it possible to forge lasting
> friendships through his cars. Thus he was especially keen to get
> photos and information from club meetings such as the POCA Fun Rally
> and the various European meetings.
> It took me a few weeks, but I scoured my archives and, not wanting to
> leave anything out, I gave him over 46,000 (!) individual images I'd
> collected over the years. I did help by filtering them somewhat, and I
> put crucial historical images whose value I thought was important in
> key folders, and organized the others in various contexts (Fun Rally
> photos, Euro meeting photos, individual car photos, people photos
> etc.). I burned them to USB sticks and sent them to him. During this
> time, he had been peppering me with questions, asking me to fact-check
> certain technical details (he appears to be more of a historian than a
> traditional 'car guy'), etc.
> The Italian postal service leaves more than a bit to be desired, and it
> took almost two months (!) for the sticks to arrive. But in the
> meantime, things had taken a bit of a turn.
> It was never clear to me if Dr. Pozzi had the idea to write a book, and
> then found a publisher to produce it, or if the publisher wanted to
> produce a book, and found a guy to write it. But clearly their
> relationship was not all that it could have been. Pozzi had a very
> clear image in his mind of what he wanted his book to be--he wanted it
> to be positive and uplifting, and a primary goal was to show the
> happiness that De Tomaso's works have generated among many people like
> us.
> The publisher had different ideas, and thought that was totally
> stupid. They wanted a straight historical biography without all the
> happy kumbyah stuff. There was a meeting in the publisher's office,
> and one can imagine what an Italian business confrontation looks/sounds
> like. Lots of yelling and arm-waving, and at the end of it, they took
> his manuscript and fired him from the project!
> My images arrived just after this all happened, so none of them were
> incorporated into the book. (The only things he got from me that were
> included in the book were photos of Dave Jacobsen's beautiful Pre-L
> Pantera, which was a Profiles centerfold car--I had sent those to him
> earlier, and numerous photos of that car are scattered throughout the
> book including on the cover, and Dave is rightly given photo credit).
> Shortly afterwards, you may recall that Ed Mendez was contacted by a US
> publisher looking for some help in producing an English-language
> version of the book, and he shared that info with us. Several of you
> expressed interest, but I contacted the publisher directly and asked
> him WTF since I was already deeply involved in the project?
> The publisher immediately phoned me in surprise, as he had no
> knowledge.
> It turns out that there was a big book fair in New York City, and the
> Italian company had showed off an Italian-language mockup of the book,
> and was seeking a US partner to produce an English-language version
> alongside of it. Both editions would be printed at the same time in
> Italy. They assured everyone that this was a turn-key, ready-for-print
> book that only needed translation, so Dalton Books bought it.
> This outfit is known for producing really, really, REALLY high-quality
> car books--limited-edition leather bound box sets on the Rolls-Royce
> Silver Ghost that sell for $1750, that kind of thing.
> They hired an Italian-to-English translator to translate the text (one
> who supposedly had a good grasp of both languages but didn't really
> know automobiles specifically), and when that was done, they sent the
> text to me for fact-checking and editing.
> The translation left a lot to be desired; there was more than a little
> flat-tire English, where it would be obvious that the writer didn't
> speak the language fluently, and re-writing the factually correct text
> into proper, flowing English was a big job. However, there were a LOT
> of factual and technical errors, which took quite some time to sort
> through and correct. That process alone probably took me 20-30 hours,
> as when I read something that I believed to be wrong, I had to be able
> to prove it to them (and myself) so had to do a lot of independent research. The Italian publisher got quite annoyed, because I pointed
> out loads of technical and historical inaccuracies, which needed to be
> corrected in the English language version, and then they felt compelled
> to change those same errors in the Italian version.
> (One example--Pozzi got it backwards and thought the Vallelunga
> prototypes were made in fiberglass and the production cars were in
> aluminum, but we all know that is demonstrably untrue; there are only
> three known aluminum Fissore prototypes and all the Ghia cars,
> including the one De Tomaso owns today, are fiberglass).
> There were some 'facts' that I believed were incorrect, but I couldn't
> prove it. I would then ask Pozzi to seek confirmation from his
> sources, as I thought perhaps he had got a story turned around or
> something? But by this time, he had lost all interest in cooperating
> with the project that had been taken away from him, and although he was
> very polite and friendly to me, he basically said he was too busy to
> devote any more time to it, and told the Italian publishers to take a
> flying leapa|.
> More disturbing to me, however, is that the book ended very prematurely
> in the story. Most people know that De Tomaso suffered a terrible
> stroke in 1993. It left him permanently paralyzed and unable to speak,
> but his brain was completely unaffected. He then entered into an
> absolutely heroic period of intensive rehab, determined to conquer his
> condition. He gradually improved somewhat, and was able to communicate
> in a very guttural manner, which only a handful of people were able to
> understand.
> Even at that, he successfully negotiated the sale of his 51% ownership
> of Maserati to Ferrari for many millions of Euros, then launched the De
> Tomaso Bigua, which then evolved into a joint venture with Qvale, and
> then blew up spectacularly. Even as that was crashing to earth, he was
> involved with a grand scheme with backing of the Italian government to
> import sturdy, simple Russian 4x4 SUVs in KDC (knocked-down kit) form;
> the trucks would arrive as 1:1 scale kits, and would be assembled in a
> new purpose-built factory in the economically depressed south of Italy,
> and would be powered by a Belgian-made diesel engine sourced from a
> partnership with Chrysler. This was a VERY complicated deal with a lot
> of moving parts.
> The profits from this enterprise would then be funneled to De Tomaso
> Automobili, who would use them to produce a new Vallelunga (Porsche
> Boxter-competitor, likely powered by a Saab turbo motor), and
> ultimately a new Pantera.
> Unfortunately, that whole deal blew up too, after De Tomaso had
> accepted a huge pile of Euros from the Italian government. When the
> plug got pulled and he was unable to pay it back, De Tomaso went into
> liquidation, then the brand was sold, and more Italian economic soap
> opera took place for a few years afterwards, with the family not
> involved.
> Anyway, even though both the Qvale and SUV deals fell apart, they were
> VERY ambitious projects, and were not merely vaporware--real cars were
> produced in both cases. This was a very significant and tragic end to
> the story of De Tomaso, both the man and the corporation--and it was
> completely absent from the book.
> When I read it and found this out, I sent a strong WTFO note to both
> English and Italian publishers and the author? Pozzi then confessed
> that when the project first started. Isabelle and Santiago promised
> full cooperation (without which the book would have been more or less
> impossible) under the condition that Pozzi agree to conceal the truth
> about anything that happened after 1993!
> What kind of historian or journalist would agree to such terms? In any
> case, that's the deal Pozzi made, so all talk of those later failed
> ventures was eliminated. I find it especially pathetic, because if you
> are really interested in the MAN, it is something the family should be
> proud of. But instead, they are ashamed of the fact that the ventures
> failed and want to whitewash history and pretend they never happened.
> So the text in the book more or less indicates that he had a stroke in
> 1993, then sat around in a poopy diaper, drooling on himself until he
> died in 2003. To me, THAT is pathetic, but that's how they wanted the
> story told. Charlie and I know for a fact that's not true, because
> when we met him in 2001, he was absolutely FEROCIOUS, animated, loud,
> arrogant, and full of piss and vinegar. Although I happened to feel
> that he was a complete jerk (as did seemingly everybody else who knew
> him), he was far from the vegetable the book makes him out to be.
> So, with all that said, when the book arrived the other day, I was
> absolutely blown away at the high quality of the resultant effort. The
> book is considerably larger than I was expecting (it's 13x11 inches)
> and the photography is simply stunning. There are beautiful photo
> spreads of most of the cars in the De Tomaso family collection
> (although since they don't have a GT5 or GT5-S, those are absent, and
> apparently their Pantera Si broke down and they didn't want to bother
> towing it to be photographed so it's absent too). There are historical
> photos directly from De Tomaso's family archives that have never been
> seen before, and will never be seen anywhere else.
> And there's the story. Given their well-established propensity for
> shading the truth, one has to wonder exactly how accurate it all is,
> but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt about their
> telling of their early history at least. It's certainly educational (I
> learned a lot!) and fascinating.
> So at the end of the day, even with all the caveats and asterisks, this
> is far and away the best De Tomaso book ever made, and if you have even
> a passing interest in the marque, you owe it to yourself to get a copy!
> Mike
> P.S. It's worth noting that purely by coincidence, another
> Italian-market book on De Tomaso has just been printed; it was released
> on September 30th. It's in Italian only and seems to be a much more
> modest effort (208 pages, paperback?). I've only seen pictures of the
> book, but the few pages I saw revealed images I'd never seen elsewhere,
> so that might be worth digging up as well if you're really a nut about
> this stuffa|.
> Here it is on the publisher's website:
> [4]http://www.edizioniilfiorino.com/catalogo/sport/0488/automobili-de-toma
> so.htm
> Not available on Amazon USA, but it is available on Amazon Italia:
> [5]http://www.amazon.it/Automobili-De-Tomaso-Dante-Candini/dp/8875495947
> and from numerous other European retailers as wella|.
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:detomaso%40poca.com?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BDeTomaso%5D%20On%20writing%20a%20book%20on%20De%20Tomaso....&In-Reply-To=%3C3c4293.32525d66.43a5bf90%40aol.com%3E
> 2. http://www.edizioniilfiorino.com/catalogo/sport/0488/automobili-de-tomaso.ht
> 3. http://www.amazon.it/Automobili-De-Tomaso-Dante-Candini/dp/8875495947
> 4. http://www.edizioniilfiorino.com/catalogo/sport/0488/automobili-de-toma
> 5. http://www.amazon.it/Automobili-De-Tomaso-Dante-Candini/dp/8875495947
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso at poca.com http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2015 23:59:41 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Rob DOrazio <robpantera at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Profiles
> Message-ID:
> <1081693746.1173224.1450655981860.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I have to agree with Larry Finch. ?I believe Profiles (and the newsletter) is an essential part of the POCA experience. If it were to be discontinued I would be disappointed and I think Mr Haney has done a tremendous job of reviving the periodical.
> Since we've been on the subject of dues, etc., I am not in favor of reducing them, but instead feel that the club should offer more return to the members. This could take the form of additional funding to the chapters (as dispersed when the Board sees the financial conditions fit to do so), club paraphernalia, etc.?
> I don't think the dues are so high, I just think you need to get more than just a membership card.
> -------------- next part --------------
> I have to agree with Larry Finch. I believe Profiles (and the
> newsletter) is an essential part of the POCA experience. If it were to
> be discontinued I would be disappointed and I think Mr Haney has done a
> tremendous job of reviving the periodical.
> Since we've been on the subject of dues, etc., I am not in favor of
> reducing them, but instead feel that the club should offer more return
> to the members. This could take the form of additional funding to the
> chapters (as dispersed when the Board sees the financial conditions fit
> to do so), club paraphernalia, etc.
> I don't think the dues are so high, I just think you need to get more
> than just a membership card.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 01:36:09 +0100
> From: Charles McCall <charlesmccall at gmail.com>
> To: "'Pantdino'" <pantdino at aol.com>, <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Track day?
> Message-ID: <039401d13b87$972fefe0$c58fcfa0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> It's the primary reason I belong - for the publications.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Pantdino via DeTomaso
> Sent: s?bado, 19 de diciembre de 2015 22:29
> To: jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com; julian_kift at hotmail.com; jjdetrich at gmail.com; erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Track day?
>
>
> What would the annual dues be if there were no Profiles?
>
> If the Profiles themselves account for a significant percentage of the dues, perhaps people would rather have the money than the Profiles and we could stop producing them
>
> Jim O
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Taphorn <jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com>
> To: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>; Jeff Detrich <jjdetrich at gmail.com>; Effie Richards <erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>
> Cc: DeTomaso Forum <detomaso at poca.com>
> Sent: Fri, Dec 18, 2015 7:54 pm
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Track day?
>
>
> POCA has that substantial sum in savings because the expense for
> publishing four issues of Profiles was accrued every year.
> Unfortunately, four issues were generally not produced. Thus, less was
> actually spent on Profiles each year than accrued. While I do not
> recall the cost of each Profiles publication, it is considerable.
>
> However, the Profiles editor was adamant that he would eventually catch
> up be Profiles current again. Thus, the fiscally responsible action was
> to ensure that adequate funding was available to meet this potential
> liability or commitment.
>
> I think we could imagine the concerns expressed by members had the
> editor produced the issues and adequate funding was unavailable because
> it had been spent elsewhere. There would have been legitimate cries of
> financial irresponsibility.
>
> In hindsight, we are all prescient and recognize that those past
> profiles will never see the light of day. Therefore, it is a reasonable
> that those funds be redirected to better use. Perhaps, dues reduction
> in that everyone benefits or Rally subsidizing, etc.
>
> John T
>
>> On 12/18/2015 10:44 AM, Julian Kift wrote:
>> Not only is it the wondrous Fun Rally 35th anniversary event in 2016, I believe also the 50th anniversary of the Mangusta as well as 45th anniversary of the Pantera, (the former will be celebrated as the marque for Concorso Italiano in 2016). With such momentous milestones maybe as a last hurrah for those poor folks who aren't going to be able to attend much longer POCA should invest the excess $100K funds to make the event free or very heavily subsidized! Watch the crowds come then!
>>
>> Either that or invest in a mass cemetery plot in Las Vegas so they will all have somewhere for a final reunion, oh wait we already got that it's called a hospitality suite ;-)
>>
>> I thought the IRS scrutinized car clubs that operated other than a net zero or minimal balance sheet?
>>
>> Julian
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at poca.com> on behalf of Jeff Detrich <jjdetrich at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2015 8:59 PM
>> To: Effie Richards
>> Cc: DeTomaso Forum
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Track day?
>>
>> Effie,
>>
>> Give Mike a chance, he has a good vision of what needs to be done. And
>> support him when needs your help.
>>
>> I urge all the Members to demand to know what goes on and to let the Board
>> know what your thoughts are.
>>
>> BTW, you can't do the second unless you do the first first. They represent
>> you. Here's an example where the BOD didn't release the right info so a
>> good answer could be communicated: last year the Board asked the chapter
>> presidents if they supported a dues reduction. But they did not share the
>> financial information about how much money we had in the Treasury or what
>> our actual operating costs were going to be. Without knowing that the club
>> could be running a huge yearly surplus and had over $100,000 in unallocated
>> cash, the chapter presidents said that we didn't need to reduce the dues.
>> The BOD then used that to kill any talk of a dues reduction at the Board
>> level. Sounds like politicians to me!
>>
>> Jeff
>> 6559
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 10:32 PM, Effie Richards <
>> erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you, Jeff Detrich for your transparency in sharing this with
>>> everyone.
>>> I don't drive the Pantera, but I am a co-owner and love the car and the
>>> many friends we have made over the years. However, in the last 2 years, I
>>> have felt something amiss within POCA. Don't anyone say it's my
>>> imagination, please.... I have been blessed with one extra ordinary
>>> "talent" only, that being seeing something clearly without it having been
>>> communicated to me or discussed. This extra sense, if you wish, has saved
>>> me and helped me chose good paths in life if only I listened.
>>> There is something peculiarly uncomfortable within POCAs top guns.
>>> I am counting on our newly elect president, Michael Shortt to initiate
>>> positive change and resurrect POCA to become more democratic. Sharing more
>>> than the cars' mechanical issues and information is a must in order to
>>> maintain its current members and attract new ones.
>>> Until we see some positive change ( and I will "feel" it before I see it),
>>> we cannot make a decision of attending the LV rally.
>>> I believe many others may feel the same way.
>>> San Diego Pantera chapter was definitely not treated right by POCA in
>>> 2014. That is a true fact! Never mind if some tried to deny it. I'm so
>>> neutral and I saw it clearly right in front of me.
>>> Thank you again, Jeff!
>>> Effie Richards
>>>
>>> Sent from Effie's iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Dec 17, 2015, at 7:57 PM, Jeff Detrich <jjdetrich at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Larry Finch via DeTomaso
>>>> <[1]detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> They make all decisions for Fun Rally location, costs, events, etc.
>>>> amongst themselves.
>>>> While the Fun Rally Committee freely uses the funds of the POCA
>>>> treasury, no Fun Rally decisions, management or expenses receive any
>>>> review, nor are they subject to approval/disapproval, from the POCA
>>>> Board.
>>>> Yes, the Fun Rally process does not formally include the POCA board in
>>>> any manner whatsoever. This is how it has been for many years.
>>>> This is not in conflict with any current POCA bylaws.
>>>>
>>>> ___
>>>> Once again, I am speaking up to let the Members know what really
>>>> happens. This is clearly a problem with how the Board operates and it
>>>> has got to stop. There may have been historical precedent but there is
>>>> nothing in the minutes that even authorizes a Fun Rally Committee, much
>>>> less authorizing them to spend any money or make commitments on behalf
>>>> of the club. In fact, it is rather odd that Bob Reid made a commitment
>>>> for the upcoming 2016 Fun Rally in Las Vegas without even telling the
>>>> Board. He even traveled to Las Vegas to look at the hotel and sign
>>>> contracts without notifying the Board, probably all on the club's dime.
>>>> And if I am not mistaken, Gil Mares went with him. The Board should
>>>> gotten proposals from local chapters and should have been involved in
>>>> the decision but they were not. They didn't even know that he was doing
>>>> anything.A
>>>> I should note, however, that Bob and the Fun Rally Committee did get
>>>> Board approval for the 2015 Fun Rally in Houston - so why not for this
>>>> one? Bob wanted it at the Plaza HotelA where it used to be held. His
>>>> last hurrah if you will. In that way he wouldn't have to deal with any
>>>> troublesome local chapter organizing committees, wouldn't have to
>>>> organize any activities or racing. Instead, we all can just sit around,
>>>> drink and re-tell Pantera stories. Unfortunately, the Board of
>>>> Directors, of which I was a part, was too weak and ineffective to do
>>>> anything about it; the President wouldn't even call a meeting to
>>>> discuss it.
>>>> The Plaza Hotel is downtown and, as Ed Mendez, a POCA Board member, put
>>>> it in an email to the Board, the Plaza is "...seedy at best," among
>>>> other criticisms. I'm not sure I'd want to go there, especially with my
>>>> car.
>>>> The Board should be transparent and should work for all the Members.
>>>> I'm not sure that has always been the case. I would urge Michael Shortt
>>>> to review this when he takes office. I will be sending him Ed's email.
>>>> You all should do the same. They work for you.
>>>> Jeff Detrich
>>>> Secretary, POCA
>>>>
>>>> References
>>>>
>>>> 1. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>>>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>>>
>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>>> use the links above.
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2015 16:36:24 -0800
> From: Effie Richards <erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>
> To: Rob DOrazio <robpantera at sbcglobal.net>
> Cc: "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Profiles
> Message-ID: <B95151E1-A90D-4047-8E35-E588E6FE9C99 at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I agree with your saying, Bob! The dues are fine but the Profiles are superb, hope they continue to be published and we really enjoy them, Yes, Mr Haney has done a fabtastic job!
> Hope the POCA new board will come up with ways to use some of these funds for everyone's enjoyment.
>
>
> Sent from Effie's iPhone
>
>> On Dec 20, 2015, at 3:59 PM, Rob DOrazio <robpantera at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>> I have to agree with Larry Finch. I believe Profiles (and the
>> newsletter) is an essential part of the POCA experience. If it were to
>> be discontinued I would be disappointed and I think Mr Haney has done a
>> tremendous job of reviving the periodical.
>> Since we've been on the subject of dues, etc., I am not in favor of
>> reducing them, but instead feel that the club should offer more return
>> to the members. This could take the form of additional funding to the
>> chapters (as dispersed when the Board sees the financial conditions fit
>> to do so), club paraphernalia, etc.
>> I don't think the dues are so high, I just think you need to get more
>> than just a membership card.
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 01:37:38 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Forest Goodhart <forestg at att.net>
> To: Rob DOrazio <robpantera at sbcglobal.net>, "detomaso at poca.com"
> <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Profiles
> Message-ID:
> <396739156.1201204.1450661858542.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Rob,POCA has already increased the rebate amount to the chapters as a result of discussions on this issue?at the President's meeting at this year's fun rally.Forest
>
>
> From: Rob DOrazio <robpantera at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
> Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2015 3:59 PM
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Profiles
>
> ? I have to agree with Larry Finch.? I believe Profiles (and the
> ? newsletter) is an essential part of the POCA experience. If it were to
> ? be discontinued I would be disappointed and I think Mr Haney has done a
> ? tremendous job of reviving the periodical.
> ? Since we've been on the subject of dues, etc., I am not in favor of
> ? reducing them, but instead feel that the club should offer more return
> ? to the members. This could take the form of additional funding to the
> ? chapters (as dispersed when the Board sees the financial conditions fit
> ? to do so), club paraphernalia, etc.
> ? I don't think the dues are so high, I just think you need to get more
> ? than just a membership card.
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> Rob,
> POCA has already increased the rebate amount to the chapters as a
> result of discussions on this issue at the President's meeting at this
> year's fun rally.
> Forest
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> From: Rob DOrazio <robpantera at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
> Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2015 3:59 PM
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Profiles
> I have to agree with Larry Finch. I believe Profiles (and the
> newsletter) is an essential part of the POCA experience. If it were
> to
> be discontinued I would be disappointed and I think Mr Haney has done
> a
> tremendous job of reviving the periodical.
> Since we've been on the subject of dues, etc., I am not in favor of
> reducing them, but instead feel that the club should offer more
> return
> to the members. This could take the form of additional funding to the
> chapters (as dispersed when the Board sees the financial conditions
> fit
> to do so), club paraphernalia, etc.
> I don't think the dues are so high, I just think you need to get more
> than just a membership card.
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [1]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [2]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 2. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2015 23:21:30 -0500
> From: Pantdino <pantdino at aol.com>
> To: charlesmccall at gmail.com, detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Track day?
> Message-ID: <151c2c55495-22b4-3e26 at webprd-m32.mail.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
> Me, too-- but for the newsletters with the technical information (thanks, Jack).
>
> I was just curious what the cost of the Profiles is.
>
> Jim O
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charles McCall <charlesmccall at gmail.com>
> To: 'Pantdino' <pantdino at aol.com>; detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
> Sent: Sun, Dec 20, 2015 4:36 pm
> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Track day?
>
> It's the primary reason I belong - for the publications.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Pantdino via DeTomaso
> Sent: s?bado, 19 de diciembre de 2015 22:29
> To: jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com; julian_kift at hotmail.com; jjdetrich at gmail.com; erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Track day?
>
>
> What would the annual dues be if there were no Profiles?
>
> If the Profiles themselves account for a significant percentage of the dues, perhaps people would rather have the money than the Profiles and we could stop producing them
>
> Jim O
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Taphorn <jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com>
> To: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>; Jeff Detrich <jjdetrich at gmail.com>; Effie Richards <erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>
> Cc: DeTomaso Forum <detomaso at poca.com>
> Sent: Fri, Dec 18, 2015 7:54 pm
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Track day?
>
>
> POCA has that substantial sum in savings because the expense for
> publishing four issues of Profiles was accrued every year.
> Unfortunately, four issues were generally not produced. Thus, less was
> actually spent on Profiles each year than accrued. While I do not
> recall the cost of each Profiles publication, it is considerable.
>
> However, the Profiles editor was adamant that he would eventually catch
> up be Profiles current again. Thus, the fiscally responsible action was
> to ensure that adequate funding was available to meet this potential
> liability or commitment.
>
> I think we could imagine the concerns expressed by members had the
> editor produced the issues and adequate funding was unavailable because
> it had been spent elsewhere. There would have been legitimate cries of
> financial irresponsibility.
>
> In hindsight, we are all prescient and recognize that those past
> profiles will never see the light of day. Therefore, it is a reasonable
> that those funds be redirected to better use. Perhaps, dues reduction
> in that everyone benefits or Rally subsidizing, etc.
>
> John T
>
>> On 12/18/2015 10:44 AM, Julian Kift wrote:
>> Not only is it the wondrous Fun Rally 35th anniversary event in 2016, I believe also the 50th anniversary of the Mangusta as well as 45th anniversary of the Pantera, (the former will be celebrated as the marque for Concorso Italiano in 2016). With such momentous milestones maybe as a last hurrah for those poor folks who aren't going to be able to attend much longer POCA should invest the excess $100K funds to make the event free or very heavily subsidized! Watch the crowds come then!
>>
>> Either that or invest in a mass cemetery plot in Las Vegas so they will all have somewhere for a final reunion, oh wait we already got that it's called a hospitality suite ;-)
>>
>> I thought the IRS scrutinized car clubs that operated other than a net zero or minimal balance sheet?
>>
>> Julian
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at poca.com> on behalf of Jeff Detrich <jjdetrich at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2015 8:59 PM
>> To: Effie Richards
>> Cc: DeTomaso Forum
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Track day?
>>
>> Effie,
>>
>> Give Mike a chance, he has a good vision of what needs to be done. And
>> support him when needs your help.
>>
>> I urge all the Members to demand to know what goes on and to let the Board
>> know what your thoughts are.
>>
>> BTW, you can't do the second unless you do the first first. They represent
>> you. Here's an example where the BOD didn't release the right info so a
>> good answer could be communicated: last year the Board asked the chapter
>> presidents if they supported a dues reduction. But they did not share the
>> financial information about how much money we had in the Treasury or what
>> our actual operating costs were going to be. Without knowing that the club
>> could be running a huge yearly surplus and had over $100,000 in unallocated
>> cash, the chapter presidents said that we didn't need to reduce the dues.
>> The BOD then used that to kill any talk of a dues reduction at the Board
>> level. Sounds like politicians to me!
>>
>> Jeff
>> 6559
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 10:32 PM, Effie Richards <
>> erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you, Jeff Detrich for your transparency in sharing this with
>>> everyone.
>>> I don't drive the Pantera, but I am a co-owner and love the car and the
>>> many friends we have made over the years. However, in the last 2 years, I
>>> have felt something amiss within POCA. Don't anyone say it's my
>>> imagination, please.... I have been blessed with one extra ordinary
>>> "talent" only, that being seeing something clearly without it having been
>>> communicated to me or discussed. This extra sense, if you wish, has saved
>>> me and helped me chose good paths in life if only I listened.
>>> There is something peculiarly uncomfortable within POCAs top guns.
>>> I am counting on our newly elect president, Michael Shortt to initiate
>>> positive change and resurrect POCA to become more democratic. Sharing more
>>> than the cars' mechanical issues and information is a must in order to
>>> maintain its current members and attract new ones.
>>> Until we see some positive change ( and I will "feel" it before I see it),
>>> we cannot make a decision of attending the LV rally.
>>> I believe many others may feel the same way.
>>> San Diego Pantera chapter was definitely not treated right by POCA in
>>> 2014. That is a true fact! Never mind if some tried to deny it. I'm so
>>> neutral and I saw it clearly right in front of me.
>>> Thank you again, Jeff!
>>> Effie Richards
>>>
>>> Sent from Effie's iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Dec 17, 2015, at 7:57 PM, Jeff Detrich <jjdetrich at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Larry Finch via DeTomaso
>>>> <[1]detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> They make all decisions for Fun Rally location, costs, events, etc.
>>>> amongst themselves.
>>>> While the Fun Rally Committee freely uses the funds of the POCA
>>>> treasury, no Fun Rally decisions, management or expenses receive any
>>>> review, nor are they subject to approval/disapproval, from the POCA
>>>> Board.
>>>> Yes, the Fun Rally process does not formally include the POCA board in
>>>> any manner whatsoever. This is how it has been for many years.
>>>> This is not in conflict with any current POCA bylaws.
>>>>
>>>> ___
>>>> Once again, I am speaking up to let the Members know what really
>>>> happens. This is clearly a problem with how the Board operates and it
>>>> has got to stop. There may have been historical precedent but there is
>>>> nothing in the minutes that even authorizes a Fun Rally Committee, much
>>>> less authorizing them to spend any money or make commitments on behalf
>>>> of the club. In fact, it is rather odd that Bob Reid made a commitment
>>>> for the upcoming 2016 Fun Rally in Las Vegas without even telling the
>>>> Board. He even traveled to Las Vegas to look at the hotel and sign
>>>> contracts without notifying the Board, probably all on the club's dime.
>>>> And if I am not mistaken, Gil Mares went with him. The Board should
>>>> gotten proposals from local chapters and should have been involved in
>>>> the decision but they were not. They didn't even know that he was doing
>>>> anything.A
>>>> I should note, however, that Bob and the Fun Rally Committee did get
>>>> Board approval for the 2015 Fun Rally in Houston - so why not for this
>>>> one? Bob wanted it at the Plaza HotelA where it used to be held. His
>>>> last hurrah if you will. In that way he wouldn't have to deal with any
>>>> troublesome local chapter organizing committees, wouldn't have to
>>>> organize any activities or racing. Instead, we all can just sit around,
>>>> drink and re-tell Pantera stories. Unfortunately, the Board of
>>>> Directors, of which I was a part, was too weak and ineffective to do
>>>> anything about it; the President wouldn't even call a meeting to
>>>> discuss it.
>>>> The Plaza Hotel is downtown and, as Ed Mendez, a POCA Board member, put
>>>> it in an email to the Board, the Plaza is "...seedy at best," among
>>>> other criticisms. I'm not sure I'd want to go there, especially with my
>>>> car.
>>>> The Board should be transparent and should work for all the Members.
>>>> I'm not sure that has always been the case. I would urge Michael Shortt
>>>> to review this when he takes office. I will be sending him Ed's email.
>>>> You all should do the same. They work for you.
>>>> Jeff Detrich
>>>> Secretary, POCA
>>>>
>>>> References
>>>>
>>>> 1. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>>>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>>>
>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>>> use the links above.
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> Me, too-- but for the newsletters with the technical information
> (thanks, Jack).
>
>
>
> I was just curious what the cost of the Profiles is.
>
>
>
> Jim O
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charles McCall <charlesmccall at gmail.com>
> To: 'Pantdino' <pantdino at aol.com>; detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
> Sent: Sun, Dec 20, 2015 4:36 pm
> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Track day?
> It's the primary reason I belong - for the publications.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [[1]mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of
> Pantdino via DeTomaso
> Sent: sA!bado, 19 de diciembre de 2015 22:29
> To: [2]jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com; [3]julian_kift at hotmail.com;
> [4]jjdetrich at gmail.com; [5]erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com
> Cc: [6]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Track day?
> What would the annual dues be if there were no Profiles?
> If the Profiles themselves account for a significant percentage of the
> dues, perhaps people would rather have the money than the Profiles and
> we could stop producing them
> Jim O
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Taphorn <[7]jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com>
> To: Julian Kift <[8]julian_kift at hotmail.com>; Jeff Detrich
> <[9]jjdetrich at gmail.com>; Effie Richards
> <[10]erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>
> Cc: DeTomaso Forum <[11]detomaso at poca.com>
> Sent: Fri, Dec 18, 2015 7:54 pm
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Track day?
> POCA has that substantial sum in savings because the expense for
> publishing four issues of Profiles was accrued every year.
> Unfortunately, four issues were generally not produced. Thus, less was
> actually spent on Profiles each year than accrued. While I do not
> recall the cost of each Profiles publication, it is considerable.
> However, the Profiles editor was adamant that he would eventually catch
> up be Profiles current again. Thus, the fiscally responsible action was
> to ensure that adequate funding was available to meet this potential
> liability or commitment.
> I think we could imagine the concerns expressed by members had the
> editor produced the issues and adequate funding was unavailable because
> it had been spent elsewhere. There would have been legitimate cries of
> financial irresponsibility.
> In hindsight, we are all prescient and recognize that those past
> profiles will never see the light of day. Therefore, it is a reasonable
> that those funds be redirected to better use. Perhaps, dues reduction
> in that everyone benefits or Rally subsidizing, etc.
> John T
>> On 12/18/2015 10:44 AM, Julian Kift wrote:
>> Not only is it the wondrous Fun Rally 35th anniversary event in 2016,
> I believe also the 50th anniversary of the Mangusta as well as 45th
> anniversary of the Pantera, (the former will be celebrated as the
> marque for Concorso Italiano in 2016). With such momentous milestones
> maybe as a last hurrah for those poor folks who aren't going to be able
> to attend much longer POCA should invest the excess $100K funds to make
> the event free or very heavily subsidized! Watch the crowds come then!
>>
>> Either that or invest in a mass cemetery plot in Las Vegas so they
> will all have somewhere for a final reunion, oh wait we already got
> that it's called a hospitality suite ;-)
>>
>> I thought the IRS scrutinized car clubs that operated other than a
> net zero or minimal balance sheet?
>>
>> Julian
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> From: DeTomaso <[12]detomaso-bounces at poca.com> on behalf of Jeff
> Detrich <[13]jjdetrich at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2015 8:59 PM
>> To: Effie Richards
>> Cc: DeTomaso Forum
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Track day?
>>
>> Effie,
>>
>> Give Mike a chance, he has a good vision of what needs to be done.
> And
>> support him when needs your help.
>>
>> I urge all the Members to demand to know what goes on and to let the
> Board
>> know what your thoughts are.
>>
>> BTW, you can't do the second unless you do the first first. They
> represent
>> you. Here's an example where the BOD didn't release the right info so
> a
>> good answer could be communicated: last year the Board asked the
> chapter
>> presidents if they supported a dues reduction. But they did not share
> the
>> financial information about how much money we had in the Treasury or
> what
>> our actual operating costs were going to be. Without knowing that the
> club
>> could be running a huge yearly surplus and had over $100,000 in
> unallocated
>> cash, the chapter presidents said that we didn't need to reduce the
> dues.
>> The BOD then used that to kill any talk of a dues reduction at the
> Board
>> level. Sounds like politicians to me!
>>
>> Jeff
>> 6559
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 10:32 PM, Effie Richards <
>> [14]erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you, Jeff Detrich for your transparency in sharing this with
>>> everyone.
>>> I don't drive the Pantera, but I am a co-owner and love the car and
> the
>>> many friends we have made over the years. However, in the last 2
> years, I
>>> have felt something amiss within POCA. Don't anyone say it's my
>>> imagination, please.... I have been blessed with one extra ordinary
>>> "talent" only, that being seeing something clearly without it having
> been
>>> communicated to me or discussed. This extra sense, if you wish, has
> saved
>>> me and helped me chose good paths in life if only I listened.
>>> There is something peculiarly uncomfortable within POCAs top guns.
>>> I am counting on our newly elect president, Michael Shortt to
> initiate
>>> positive change and resurrect POCA to become more democratic.
> Sharing more
>>> than the cars' mechanical issues and information is a must in order
> to
>>> maintain its current members and attract new ones.
>>> Until we see some positive change ( and I will "feel" it before I
> see it),
>>> we cannot make a decision of attending the LV rally.
>>> I believe many others may feel the same way.
>>> San Diego Pantera chapter was definitely not treated right by POCA
> in
>>> 2014. That is a true fact! Never mind if some tried to deny it. I'm
> so
>>> neutral and I saw it clearly right in front of me.
>>> Thank you again, Jeff!
>>> Effie Richards
>>>
>>> Sent from Effie's iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Dec 17, 2015, at 7:57 PM, Jeff Detrich <[15]jjdetrich at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Larry Finch via DeTomaso
>>>> <[1][16]detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> They make all decisions for Fun Rally location, costs, events, etc.
>>>> amongst themselves.
>>>> While the Fun Rally Committee freely uses the funds of the POCA
>>>> treasury, no Fun Rally decisions, management or expenses receive
> any
>>>> review, nor are they subject to approval/disapproval, from the POCA
>>>> Board.
>>>> Yes, the Fun Rally process does not formally include the POCA board
> in
>>>> any manner whatsoever. This is how it has been for many years.
>>>> This is not in conflict with any current POCA bylaws.
>>>>
>>>> ___
>>>> Once again, I am speaking up to let the Members know what really
>>>> happens. This is clearly a problem with how the Board operates and
> it
>>>> has got to stop. There may have been historical precedent but there
> is
>>>> nothing in the minutes that even authorizes a Fun Rally Committee,
> much
>>>> less authorizing them to spend any money or make commitments on
> behalf
>>>> of the club. In fact, it is rather odd that Bob Reid made a
> commitment
>>>> for the upcoming 2016 Fun Rally in Las Vegas without even telling
> the
>>>> Board. He even traveled to Las Vegas to look at the hotel and sign
>>>> contracts without notifying the Board, probably all on the club's
> dime.
>>>> And if I am not mistaken, Gil Mares went with him. The Board should
>>>> gotten proposals from local chapters and should have been involved
> in
>>>> the decision but they were not. They didn't even know that he was
> doing
>>>> anything.A
>>>> I should note, however, that Bob and the Fun Rally Committee did
> get
>>>> Board approval for the 2015 Fun Rally in Houston - so why not for
> this
>>>> one? Bob wanted it at the Plaza HotelA where it used to be held.
> His
>>>> last hurrah if you will. In that way he wouldn't have to deal with
> any
>>>> troublesome local chapter organizing committees, wouldn't have to
>>>> organize any activities or racing. Instead, we all can just sit
> around,
>>>> drink and re-tell Pantera stories. Unfortunately, the Board of
>>>> Directors, of which I was a part, was too weak and ineffective to
> do
>>>> anything about it; the President wouldn't even call a meeting to
>>>> discuss it.
>>>> The Plaza Hotel is downtown and, as Ed Mendez, a POCA Board member,
> put
>>>> it in an email to the Board, the Plaza is "...seedy at best," among
>>>> other criticisms. I'm not sure I'd want to go there, especially
> with my
>>>> car.
>>>> The Board should be transparent and should work for all the
> Members.
>>>> I'm not sure that has always been the case. I would urge Michael
> Shortt
>>>> to review this when he takes office. I will be sending him Ed's
> email.
>>>> You all should do the same. They work for you.
>>>> Jeff Detrich
>>>> Secretary, POCA
>>>>
>>>> References
>>>>
>>>> 1. [17]mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> [18]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>>> [19]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>>>
>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> etc.)
>>> use the links above.
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> [20]DeTomaso at poca.com
>> [21]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [22]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [23]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com?
> 2. mailto:jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
> 3. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
> 4. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
> 5. mailto:erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com
> 6. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 7. mailto:jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
> 8. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
> 9. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
> 10. mailto:erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com
> 11. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 12. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
> 13. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
> 14. mailto:erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com
> 15. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
> 16. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 17. mailto:detomaso at poca.com?
> 18. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 19. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 20. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 21. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 22. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 23. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 03:00:48 -0500
> From: laurieferrari at aol.com
> To: detomaso at poca.com, smmartin7 @ netscape.net
> Subject: [DeTomaso] SCOTT MARTIN.. A strong WRONG on your
> suggestion!!!
> Message-ID: <151c38e198b-3936-454f at webprd-m49.mail.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
> Oh absolutely NOT! I hope you were kidding! POCA should not be involved with this supposed book in any way, shape, or form. If Mike would ever elect to write such a book, it should be his book and his alone. If POCA members elect to submit or share information, more power to them. POCA should not be involved in ANY WAY as that would be highly inappropriate and most counterproductive, and not even for the reasons of the many incidents that have been cited whereas POCA has not acted in the most scrupulous of manners, and has not been transparent about finances unless one files a request with the IRS, we now hear. Then there are the former election fiascoes ... let's not go back into those nightmares, but to have POCA involved with his book would be the greatest mistake and the furthest thing from anything reasonable I've heard. Secondly, a big thank you to Effie for being so straight forward in expressing not only her opinion but her insights into what has been realized by others you can be sure. Third point, congratulations to President, Mike Shortt; you're now in the clean up spot. I know you will be a great asset to this Club in so many ways. Good luck to you for your enthusiasm, creativity, and integrity.
> Laurie
>
>
>
> [DeTomaso] Mike's tale of De Tomaso book
> Scott Martin smmartin7 at netscape.net
> Sun Dec 20 15:33:57 MST 2015
>
> I agree with this, but think we should go should go a step further and have POCA sanction the book.
>
>
> Mike and everyone else that has DeTomaso history knowledge should put it all into a definitive book on Detomaso, the person and the cars, and POCA endorse it as the most complete, factual book on the marque. It might be a multi-volume set and POCA might want to fund and own the rights or let someone else publish it. If the club agrees to the concept, a committee can be created to work out the details.
>
>
> I suggested to our new President that the club needs to sanction an official DeTomaso registry to have an official documentation of what cars were produced and how many are still remaining. There are a number of people around the world with unofficial registries, these should all be combined in a listing that POCA maintains. I offered to help with this.
>
>
> Clubs like Shelby and Ferrari have official registries and history books, I think it is time for POCA to step up to this. But we can't lose our roots of providing social events and member activities.
>
>
> Scott Martin
> -------------- next part --------------
> Oh absolutely NOT! I hope you were kidding! POCA should not be involved with
> this supposed book in any way, shape, or form. If Mike would ever elect to
> write such a book, it should be his book and his alone. If POCA members elect
> to submit or share information, more power to them. POCA should not be involved
> in ANY WAY as that would be highly inappropriate and most counterproductive, and
> not even for the reasons of the many incidents that have been cited whereas POCA
> has not acted in the most scrupulous of manners, and has not been transparent
> about finances unless one files a request with the IRS, we now hear. Then there
> are the former election fiascoes ... let's not go back into those nightmares,
> but to have POCA involved with his book would be the greatest mistake and the
> furthest thing from anything reasonable I've heard. Secondly, a big thank you
> to Effie for being so straight forward in expressing not only her opinion but
> her insights into what has been realized by others you can be sure. Third
> point, congratulations to President, Mike Shortt; you're now in the clean up
> spot. I know you will be a great asset to this Club in so many ways. Good luck
> to you for your enthusiasm, creativity, and integrity.
>
> Laurie
>
> [DeTomaso] Mike's tale of De Tomaso book
>
> Scott Martin [1]smmartin7 at netscape.net
> Sun Dec 20 15:33:57 MST 2015
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> I agree with this, but think we should go should go a step further and have POCA
> sanction the book.
>
>
> Mike and everyone else that has DeTomaso history knowledge should put it all int
> o a definitive book on Detomaso, the person and the cars, and POCA endorse it as
> the most complete, factual book on the marque. It might be a multi-volume set
> and POCA might want to fund and own the rights or let someone else publish it.
> If the club agrees to the concept, a committee can be created to work out the de
> tails.
>
>
> I suggested to our new President that the club needs to sanction an official DeT
> omaso registry to have an official documentation of what cars were produced and
> how many are still remaining. There are a number of people around the world wit
> h unofficial registries, these should all be combined in a listing that POCA mai
> ntains. I offered to help with this.
>
>
> Clubs like Shelby and Ferrari have official registries and history books, I thin
> k it is time for POCA to step up to this. But we can't lose our roots of provid
> ing social events and member activities.
>
>
> Scott Martin
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:detomaso%40poca.com?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BDeTomaso%5D%20Mike%27s%20tale%20of%20De%20Tomaso%20book&In-Reply-To=%3C151c187226b-7610-3575%40webprd-a68.mail.aol.com%3E
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 09:41:53 -0500
> From: Michael Shortt <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
> To: "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] The Forum and POCA
> Message-ID:
> <CAEWtxWp9zsGdhHa7V_=sTZJ5HiSCjrVz833fw4tGHbFiwJJ_MQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Good Morning,
>
> Merry Christmas to you all.
>
> Let me preface this email/memo with a simple and direct statement.
>
> I want only what is best for POCA, I want to grow the club and I want
> everybody to be happy ( if that is possible )
>
> The elections were just concluded, the people that the MAJORITY of you want
> to run the club are in place, that is after all the purpose of elections is
> it not?
>
> I have a great many plans for the club that I hope to garner support for
> through the proper method with BOD support, many of those ideas have been
> floated around here.
>
> That needs to stop.
>
> The Forum is not the place for club business or procedure, the forum is a
> PUBLIC RELATIONS and TECHNICAL tool to both help attract new members and to
> help each other out with issues on our cars. It is not, nor was it every a
> confessional, leadership suggestion box or time out corner.
>
> The last week of postings to any outsiders lurking makes us all look like a
> big disfunctional family and would be enough reason to not join and for
> others ( who already have) to call for the forum to cease. That is not an
> acceptable response, but neither are these posts.
>
> The new website will have a member's only area for such conversations, but
> you all are killing any chance of attracting new members with all this
> drivel.
>
> If you are in office, you should know better, you are already violating the
> Code of Ethics.
> You if ran for office and lost, please return to chapter business or run
> again in the next election, but this has to stop, be a team player and set
> an example.
>
> I am establishing a new committee called "The Cleveland Block", it will
> consist of me, your VP, Mike Burnett and one representative from each
> chapter. We will conduct a once a month conference call to bounce ideas
> around and hear what you have to say. It is here that you can channel your
> creative thoughts and useful suggestions in the proper fashion to actually
> get something done, because I will be there listening to everybody.
>
> Whinning, back seat driving, second guessing and undermining those that you
> have piut into office to work on your behalf is not the answer.
>
> Think about seeing the fiorum for the first time during the last week, it's
> embarassing.
>
> My election was a call, if not an overwhelming mandate for change, please
> contribute to that change by using the forum as intended. We need new
> members, I hazard to estimate the avgerage age of POCA membership, easily
> over 60, if not 65 years old. We need new members, the people buying these
> 4,000 plus cars and paying a healthy price to get them, new membership is
> ythe ONLY way this club will survive another 20 years, most of us reading
> this will be dead by then.
>
> Please help me make things better by conducting yourselves like recruiters,
> you are one and each post represents the club. Panteras may be the bad
> boys of exoctic cars, we are loud, brash and quick to get going, but we
> need to also be a polished and well lubed machine to go the distance.
>
> Michael Shortt
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Michael L. Shortt
> Savannah, Georgia
> www.michaelshortt.com
> michael at michaelshortt.com
> 912-232-9390
>
>
> This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
> Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
> privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified
> that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you
> have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you
> -------------- next part --------------
> Good Morning,
> Merry Christmas to you all.
> Let me preface this email/memo with a simple and direct statement.
> I want only what is best for POCA, I want to grow the club and I want
> everybody to be happy ( if that is possible )
> The elections were just concluded, the people that the MAJORITY of you
> want to run the club are in place, that is after all the purpose of
> elections is it not?
> I have a great many plans for the club that I hope to garner support
> for through the proper method with BOD support, many of those ideas
> have been floated around here.
> That needs to stop.
> The Forum is not the place for club business or procedure, the forum is
> a PUBLIC RELATIONS and TECHNICAL tool to both help attract new members
> and to help each other out with issues on our cars. It is not, nor was
> it every a confessional, leadership suggestion box or time out corner.
> The last week of postings to any outsiders lurking makes us all look
> like a big disfunctional family and would be enough reason to not join
> and for others ( who already have) A to call for the forum to cease.A
> That is not an acceptable response, but neither are these posts.
> The new website will have a member's only area for such conversations,
> but you all are killing any chance of attracting new members with all
> this drivel.
> If you are in office, you should know better, you are already violating
> the Code of Ethics.
> You if ran for office and lost, please return to chapter business or
> run again in the next election, but this has to stop, be a team player
> and set an example.
> I am establishing a new committee called "The Cleveland Block", it will
> consist of me, your VP, Mike Burnett and one representative from each
> chapter.A We will conduct a once a month conference call to bounce
> ideas around and hear what you have to say.A It is here that you can
> channel your creative thoughts and useful suggestions in the proper
> fashion to actually get something done, because I will be there
> listening to everybody.
> Whinning, back seat driving, second guessing and undermining those that
> you have piut into office to work on your behalf is not the answer.
> Think about seeing the fiorum for the first time during the last week,
> it's embarassing.
> My election was a call, if not an overwhelming mandate for change,
> please contribute to that change by using the forum as intended. A We
> need new members, I hazard to estimate the avgerage age of POCA
> membership, easily over 60, if not 65 years old.A We need new members,
> the people buying these 4,000 plus cars and paying a healthy price to
> get them, new membership is ythe ONLY way this club will survive
> another 20 years, most of us reading this will be dead by then.
> Please help me make things better by conducting yourselves like
> recruiters, you are one and each post represents the club.A Panteras
> may be the bad boys of exoctic cars, we are loud, brash and quick to
> get going, but we need to also be a polished and well lubed machine to
> go the distance.
> Michael Shortt
> --
> Michael L. Shortt
> Savannah, Georgia
> [1]www.michaelshortt.com
> [2]michael at michaelshortt.com
> 912-232-9390
> A
> This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
> Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
> privileged.A If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby
> notified
> that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> communication is strictly prohibited.A Please reply to the sender that
> you
> have received this message in error, then delete it.A Thank you
>
> References
>
> 1. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
> 2. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 15:44:22 +0000
> From: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
> To: Michael Shortt <michaelsavga at gmail.com>, De Tomaso List
> <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] The Forum and POCA
> Message-ID:
> <SN1PR18MB0608425049C3F14331AB1F3C95E40 at SN1PR18MB0608.namprd18.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Michael,
>
> As we are talking election results the only result I have seen is that of POCA President, I understood there was at least one other contested position. It would be nice to know the full election results and whom are our representatives on the team that you will need to succeed in your journey.
>
> Julian
>
> ________________________________________
> From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at poca.com> on behalf of Michael Shortt <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
> Sent: Monday, December 21, 2015 6:41 AM
> To: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] The Forum and POCA
>
> Good Morning,
>
> Merry Christmas to you all.
>
> Let me preface this email/memo with a simple and direct statement.
>
> I want only what is best for POCA, I want to grow the club and I want
> everybody to be happy ( if that is possible )
>
> The elections were just concluded, the people that the MAJORITY of you want
> to run the club are in place, that is after all the purpose of elections is
> it not?
>
> I have a great many plans for the club that I hope to garner support for
> through the proper method with BOD support, many of those ideas have been
> floated around here.
>
> That needs to stop.
>
> The Forum is not the place for club business or procedure, the forum is a
> PUBLIC RELATIONS and TECHNICAL tool to both help attract new members and to
> help each other out with issues on our cars. It is not, nor was it every a
> confessional, leadership suggestion box or time out corner.
>
> The last week of postings to any outsiders lurking makes us all look like a
> big disfunctional family and would be enough reason to not join and for
> others ( who already have) to call for the forum to cease. That is not an
> acceptable response, but neither are these posts.
>
> The new website will have a member's only area for such conversations, but
> you all are killing any chance of attracting new members with all this
> drivel.
>
> If you are in office, you should know better, you are already violating the
> Code of Ethics.
> You if ran for office and lost, please return to chapter business or run
> again in the next election, but this has to stop, be a team player and set
> an example.
>
> I am establishing a new committee called "The Cleveland Block", it will
> consist of me, your VP, Mike Burnett and one representative from each
> chapter. We will conduct a once a month conference call to bounce ideas
> around and hear what you have to say. It is here that you can channel your
> creative thoughts and useful suggestions in the proper fashion to actually
> get something done, because I will be there listening to everybody.
>
> Whinning, back seat driving, second guessing and undermining those that you
> have piut into office to work on your behalf is not the answer.
>
> Think about seeing the fiorum for the first time during the last week, it's
> embarassing.
>
> My election was a call, if not an overwhelming mandate for change, please
> contribute to that change by using the forum as intended. We need new
> members, I hazard to estimate the avgerage age of POCA membership, easily
> over 60, if not 65 years old. We need new members, the people buying these
> 4,000 plus cars and paying a healthy price to get them, new membership is
> ythe ONLY way this club will survive another 20 years, most of us reading
> this will be dead by then.
>
> Please help me make things better by conducting yourselves like recruiters,
> you are one and each post represents the club. Panteras may be the bad
> boys of exoctic cars, we are loud, brash and quick to get going, but we
> need to also be a polished and well lubed machine to go the distance.
>
> Michael Shortt
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Michael L. Shortt
> Savannah, Georgia
> www.michaelshortt.com
> michael at michaelshortt.com
> 912-232-9390
>
>
> This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
> Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
> privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified
> that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you
> have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 11:20:34 -0500
> From: Michael Shortt <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
> To: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
> Cc: De Tomaso List <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] The Forum and POCA
> Message-ID:
> <CAEWtxWqooBpNUt0TEMTBQYiPD3gyGCX6akdNAm-W4Fgyep_hKA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> The 2016 BOD consists of
> Pres. Michael Shortt
> VP Mike Burnett
> Sec Joe Stockett
> Tres Bob Reid
> PR Ed Mendez
> News Jack Deryke
> Profiles Mike Haney
> Past Pres John Buckman
> Membership Judy McCartney
>
> I do not have the actual totals.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Michael Shortt
>> On Dec 21, 2015 10:44 AM, "Julian Kift" <julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Michael,
>>
>> As we are talking election results the only result I have seen is that of
>> POCA President, I understood there was at least one other contested
>> position. It would be nice to know the full election results and whom are
>> our representatives on the team that you will need to succeed in your
>> journey.
>>
>> Julian
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at poca.com> on behalf of Michael Shortt <
>> michaelsavga at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Monday, December 21, 2015 6:41 AM
>> To: detomaso at poca.com
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] The Forum and POCA
>>
>> Good Morning,
>>
>> Merry Christmas to you all.
>>
>> Let me preface this email/memo with a simple and direct statement.
>>
>> I want only what is best for POCA, I want to grow the club and I want
>> everybody to be happy ( if that is possible )
>>
>> The elections were just concluded, the people that the MAJORITY of you want
>> to run the club are in place, that is after all the purpose of elections is
>> it not?
>>
>> I have a great many plans for the club that I hope to garner support for
>> through the proper method with BOD support, many of those ideas have been
>> floated around here.
>>
>> That needs to stop.
>>
>> The Forum is not the place for club business or procedure, the forum is a
>> PUBLIC RELATIONS and TECHNICAL tool to both help attract new members and to
>> help each other out with issues on our cars. It is not, nor was it every a
>> confessional, leadership suggestion box or time out corner.
>>
>> The last week of postings to any outsiders lurking makes us all look like a
>> big disfunctional family and would be enough reason to not join and for
>> others ( who already have) to call for the forum to cease. That is not an
>> acceptable response, but neither are these posts.
>>
>> The new website will have a member's only area for such conversations, but
>> you all are killing any chance of attracting new members with all this
>> drivel.
>>
>> If you are in office, you should know better, you are already violating the
>> Code of Ethics.
>> You if ran for office and lost, please return to chapter business or run
>> again in the next election, but this has to stop, be a team player and set
>> an example.
>>
>> I am establishing a new committee called "The Cleveland Block", it will
>> consist of me, your VP, Mike Burnett and one representative from each
>> chapter. We will conduct a once a month conference call to bounce ideas
>> around and hear what you have to say. It is here that you can channel your
>> creative thoughts and useful suggestions in the proper fashion to actually
>> get something done, because I will be there listening to everybody.
>>
>> Whinning, back seat driving, second guessing and undermining those that you
>> have piut into office to work on your behalf is not the answer.
>>
>> Think about seeing the fiorum for the first time during the last week, it's
>> embarassing.
>>
>> My election was a call, if not an overwhelming mandate for change, please
>> contribute to that change by using the forum as intended. We need new
>> members, I hazard to estimate the avgerage age of POCA membership, easily
>> over 60, if not 65 years old. We need new members, the people buying these
>> 4,000 plus cars and paying a healthy price to get them, new membership is
>> ythe ONLY way this club will survive another 20 years, most of us reading
>> this will be dead by then.
>>
>> Please help me make things better by conducting yourselves like recruiters,
>> you are one and each post represents the club. Panteras may be the bad
>> boys of exoctic cars, we are loud, brash and quick to get going, but we
>> need to also be a polished and well lubed machine to go the distance.
>>
>> Michael Shortt
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael L. Shortt
>> Savannah, Georgia
>> www.michaelshortt.com
>> michael at michaelshortt.com
>> 912-232-9390
>>
>>
>> This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
>> Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
>> privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified
>> that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
>> communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you
>> have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you
> -------------- next part --------------
> The 2016 BOD consists of
> Pres. Michael Shortt
> VP Mike Burnett
> Sec Joe Stockett
> Tres Bob Reid
> PR Ed Mendez
> News Jack Deryke
> Profiles Mike Haney
> Past Pres John Buckman
> Membership Judy McCartney
>
> I do not have the actual totals.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Michael Shortt
>
> On Dec 21, 2015 10:44 AM, "Julian Kift" <[1]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Michael,
> As we are talking election results the only result I have seen is
> that of POCA President, I understood there was at least one other
> contested position. It would be nice to know the full election
> results and whom are our representatives on the team that you will
> need to succeed in your journey.
> Julian
> ________________________________________
> From: DeTomaso <[2]detomaso-bounces at poca.com> on behalf of Michael
> Shortt <[3]michaelsavga at gmail.com>
> Sent: Monday, December 21, 2015 6:41 AM
> To: [4]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] The Forum and POCA
> Good Morning,
> Merry Christmas to you all.
> Let me preface this email/memo with a simple and direct statement.
> I want only what is best for POCA, I want to grow the club and I
> want
> everybody to be happy ( if that is possible )
> The elections were just concluded, the people that the MAJORITY of
> you want
> to run the club are in place, that is after all the purpose of
> elections is
> it not?
> I have a great many plans for the club that I hope to garner support
> for
> through the proper method with BOD support, many of those ideas have
> been
> floated around here.
> That needs to stop.
> The Forum is not the place for club business or procedure, the forum
> is a
> PUBLIC RELATIONS and TECHNICAL tool to both help attract new members
> and to
> help each other out with issues on our cars. It is not, nor was it
> every a
> confessional, leadership suggestion box or time out corner.
> The last week of postings to any outsiders lurking makes us all look
> like a
> big disfunctional family and would be enough reason to not join and
> for
> others ( who already have)A to call for the forum to cease.A That
> is not an
> acceptable response, but neither are these posts.
> The new website will have a member's only area for such
> conversations, but
> you all are killing any chance of attracting new members with all
> this
> drivel.
> If you are in office, you should know better, you are already
> violating the
> Code of Ethics.
> You if ran for office and lost, please return to chapter business or
> run
> again in the next election, but this has to stop, be a team player
> and set
> an example.
> I am establishing a new committee called "The Cleveland Block", it
> will
> consist of me, your VP, Mike Burnett and one representative from
> each
> chapter.A We will conduct a once a month conference call to bounce
> ideas
> around and hear what you have to say.A It is here that you can
> channel your
> creative thoughts and useful suggestions in the proper fashion to
> actually
> get something done, because I will be there listening to everybody.
> Whinning, back seat driving, second guessing and undermining those
> that you
> have piut into office to work on your behalf is not the answer.
> Think about seeing the fiorum for the first time during the last
> week, it's
> embarassing.
> My election was a call, if not an overwhelming mandate for change,
> please
> contribute to that change by using the forum as intended.A A We
> need new
> members, I hazard to estimate the avgerage age of POCA membership,
> easily
> over 60, if not 65 years old.A We need new members, the people
> buying these
> 4,000 plus cars and paying a healthy price to get them, new
> membership is
> ythe ONLY way this club will survive another 20 years, most of us
> reading
> this will be dead by then.
> Please help me make things better by conducting yourselves like
> recruiters,
> you are one and each post represents the club.A Panteras may be the
> bad
> boys of exoctic cars, we are loud, brash and quick to get going, but
> we
> need to also be a polished and well lubed machine to go the
> distance.
> Michael Shortt
> --
> Michael L. Shortt
> Savannah, Georgia
> [5]www.michaelshortt.com
> [6]michael at michaelshortt.com
> [7]912-232-9390
> This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
> Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
> privileged.A If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby
> notified
> that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> communication is strictly prohibited.A Please reply to the sender
> that you
> have received this message in error, then delete it.A Thank you
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
> 2. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
> 3. mailto:michaelsavga at gmail.com
> 4. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 5. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
> 6. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
> 7. tel:912-232-9390
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 10:46:17 -0600
> From: Jeff Detrich <jjdetrich at gmail.com>
> To: Effie Richards <erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>
> Cc: via DeTomaso P6746--- <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA financials
> Message-ID:
> <CANX29aXeccF6341yAu=CifbYBq_pHDoJiNRxQO=NmJ7oxi2Rng at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 5:25 PM, Effie Richards <
> erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com> wrote:
>
> Although I' m not interested in POCAs financial status, I find this
>> statement almost a bit hostile.
>
>
> Amen. I'm done harping on it.
>
> Transparency? The Board works for the Members.
>
> Jeff Detrich
> 6559
> -------------- next part --------------
> On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 5:25 PM, Effie Richards
> <[1]erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com> wrote:
>
> Although I' m not interested in POCAs financial status, I find this
> statement almost a bit hostile.
>
> Amen. I'm done harping on it.A
> Transparency? The Board works for the Members.
> Jeff Detrich
> 6559
> A
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 12:13:27 -0500
> From: Rob Dumoulin <rob at dumoulins.net>
> To: Pantera - DeTomaso Mail List <DeTomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] What did you buy your Pantera(s) for Christmas/
> Hanukkah / Kwanzaa / Festivus
> Message-ID:
> <CAEr4y_s3O1WBg7mRmHsiDABTiMoe3rrX3Q+ZSF0heyZN_cjoJg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Not that we need an excuse (unless you do for marital reasons)....
>
> What did THPNLS0???? get?
> -------------- next part --------------
> Not that we need an excuse (unless you do for marital reasons)....
> What did THPNLS0???? get?
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 12:18:34 -0500
> From: Michael Shortt <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
> To: Rob Dumoulin <rob at dumoulins.net>
> Cc: Pantera - DeTomaso Mail List <DeTomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] What did you buy your Pantera(s) for
> Christmas/ Hanukkah / Kwanzaa / Festivus
> Message-ID:
> <CAEWtxWokUWE8pck68zRbFV9yXcFM8Ca2XWj93p-eHtagSWvoaA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> 1660 received early gifts this year, new bumpers, some paint, marker
> lights, door seals, wheels and a shift plate and knob.
>
> Little Bas@#$% didn't even send a thank you note.
>
> Before his Birthday rolls around, he has already been told that a frront
> end rebuild with a new steering rack is coming.
>
> Michael Shortt
>
>> On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 12:13 PM, Rob Dumoulin <rob at dumoulins.net> wrote:
>>
>> Not that we need an excuse (unless you do for marital reasons)....
>> What did THPNLS0???? get?
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
>> the links above.
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Michael L. Shortt
> Savannah, Georgia
> www.michaelshortt.com
> michael at michaelshortt.com
> 912-232-9390
>
>
> This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
> Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
> privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified
> that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you
> have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you
> -------------- next part --------------
> 1660 received early gifts this year, A new bumpers, some paint, marker
> lights, door seals, wheels and a shift plate and knob.
> Little Bas@#$% didn't even send a thank you note.
> Before his Birthday rolls around, he has already been told that a
> frront end rebuild with a new steering rack is coming.
> Michael Shortt
>
> On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 12:13 PM, Rob Dumoulin <[1]rob at dumoulins.net>
> wrote:
>
> A A Not that we need an excuse (unless you do for marital
> reasons)....
> A A What did THPNLS0???? get?
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [2]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [3]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> etc.) use the links above.
>
> --
> Michael L. Shortt
> Savannah, Georgia
> [4]www.michaelshortt.com
> [5]michael at michaelshortt.com
> 912-232-9390
> A
> This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
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> References
>
> 1. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
> 2. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 3. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 4. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
> 5. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 13:08:36 -0500
> From: laurieferrari at aol.com
> To: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] The Forum and POCA
> Message-ID: <151c5ba8dec-34d3-566b at webprd-m33.mail.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
> Agree with you Michael in that our new vision has to be one of a positive POCA Club and image. That comes with a purposeful and well run Club. Whatever has been said that might be construed as negative is important in that it represents what the Membership thinks and is experiencing. You of all people should realize that if we were unable to share with openness to discuss these issues, innovative change would never have occurred. Thus, with you at the helm and the new Board, we are all hoping for an even finer Club which attracts a greater membership as your goal. Laurie
>
> Michael Shortt michaelsavga at gmail.com
>
> Mon Dec 21 07:41:53 MST 2015
>
> Good Morning,
>
> Merry Christmas to you all.
>
> Let me preface this email/memo with a simple and direct statement.
>
> I want only what is best for POCA, I want to grow the club and I want
> everybody to be happy ( if that is possible )
>
> The elections were just concluded, the people that the MAJORITY of you want
> to run the club are in place, that is after all the purpose of elections is
> it not?
>
> I have a great many plans for the club that I hope to garner support for
> through the proper method with BOD support, many of those ideas have been
> floated around here.
>
> That needs to stop.
>
> The Forum is not the place for club business or procedure, the forum is a
> PUBLIC RELATIONS and TECHNICAL tool to both help attract new members and to
> help each other out with issues on our cars. It is not, nor was it every a
> confessional, leadership suggestion box or time out corner.
>
> The last week of postings to any outsiders lurking makes us all look like a
> big disfunctional family and would be enough reason to not join and for
> others ( who already have) to call for the forum to cease. That is not an
> acceptable response, but neither are these posts.
>
> The new website will have a member's only area for such conversations, but
> you all are killing any chance of attracting new members with all this
> drivel.
>
> If you are in office, you should know better, you are already violating the
> Code of Ethics.
> You if ran for office and lost, please return to chapter business or run
> again in the next election, but this has to stop, be a team player and set
> an example.
>
> I am establishing a new committee called "The Cleveland Block", it will
> consist of me, your VP, Mike Burnett and one representative from each
> chapter. We will conduct a once a month conference call to bounce ideas
> around and hear what you have to say. It is here that you can channel your
> creative thoughts and useful suggestions in the proper fashion to actually
> get something done, because I will be there listening to everybody.
>
> Whinning, back seat driving, second guessing and undermining those that you
> have piut into office to work on your behalf is not the answer.
>
> Think about seeing the fiorum for the first time during the last week, it's
> embarassing.
>
> My election was a call, if not an overwhelming mandate for change, please
> contribute to that change by using the forum as intended. We need new
> members, I hazard to estimate the avgerage age of POCA membership, easily
> over 60, if not 65 years old. We need new members, the people buying these
> 4,000 plus cars and paying a healthy price to get them, new membership is
> ythe ONLY way this club will survive another 20 years, most of us reading
> this will be dead by then.
>
> Please help me make things better by conducting yourselves like recruiters,
> you are one and each post represents the club. Panteras may be the bad
> boys of exoctic cars, we are loud, brash and quick to get going, but we
> need to also be a polished and well lubed machine to go the distance.
>
> Michael Shortt
> -------------- next part --------------
> Agree with you Michael in that our new vision has to be one of a positive POCA
> Club and image. That comes with a purposeful and well run Club. Whatever has
> been said that might be construed as negative is important in that it represents
> what the Membership thinks and is experiencing. You of all people should
> realize that if we were unable to share with openness to discuss these issues,
> innovative change would never have occurred. Thus, with you at the helm and the
> new Board, we are all hoping for an even finer Club which attracts a greater
> membership as your goal. Laurie
>
> Michael Shortt [1]michaelsavga at gmail.com
>
> Mon Dec 21 07:41:53 MST 2015
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> Good Morning,
>
> Merry Christmas to you all.
>
> Let me preface this email/memo with a simple and direct statement.
>
> I want only what is best for POCA, I want to grow the club and I want
> everybody to be happy ( if that is possible )
>
> The elections were just concluded, the people that the MAJORITY of you want
> to run the club are in place, that is after all the purpose of elections is
> it not?
>
> I have a great many plans for the club that I hope to garner support for
> through the proper method with BOD support, many of those ideas have been
> floated around here.
>
> That needs to stop.
>
> The Forum is not the place for club business or procedure, the forum is a
> PUBLIC RELATIONS and TECHNICAL tool to both help attract new members and to
> help each other out with issues on our cars. It is not, nor was it every a
> confessional, leadership suggestion box or time out corner.
>
> The last week of postings to any outsiders lurking makes us all look like a
> big disfunctional family and would be enough reason to not join and for
> others ( who already have) to call for the forum to cease. That is not an
> acceptable response, but neither are these posts.
>
> The new website will have a member's only area for such conversations, but
> you all are killing any chance of attracting new members with all this
> drivel.
>
> If you are in office, you should know better, you are already violating the
> Code of Ethics.
> You if ran for office and lost, please return to chapter business or run
> again in the next election, but this has to stop, be a team player and set
> an example.
>
> I am establishing a new committee called "The Cleveland Block", it will
> consist of me, your VP, Mike Burnett and one representative from each
> chapter. We will conduct a once a month conference call to bounce ideas
> around and hear what you have to say. It is here that you can channel your
> creative thoughts and useful suggestions in the proper fashion to actually
> get something done, because I will be there listening to everybody.
>
> Whinning, back seat driving, second guessing and undermining those that you
> have piut into office to work on your behalf is not the answer.
>
> Think about seeing the fiorum for the first time during the last week, it's
> embarassing.
>
> My election was a call, if not an overwhelming mandate for change, please
> contribute to that change by using the forum as intended. We need new
> members, I hazard to estimate the avgerage age of POCA membership, easily
> over 60, if not 65 years old. We need new members, the people buying these
> 4,000 plus cars and paying a healthy price to get them, new membership is
> ythe ONLY way this club will survive another 20 years, most of us reading
> this will be dead by then.
>
> Please help me make things better by conducting yourselves like recruiters,
> you are one and each post represents the club. Panteras may be the bad
> boys of exoctic cars, we are loud, brash and quick to get going, but we
> need to also be a polished and well lubed machine to go the distance.
>
> Michael Shortt
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:detomaso%40poca.com?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BDeTomaso%5D%20The%20Forum%20and%20POCA&In-Reply-To=%3CCAEWtxWp9zsGdhHa7V_%3DsTZJ5HiSCjrVz833fw4tGHbFiwJJ_MQ%40mail.gmail.com%3E
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of DeTomaso Digest, Vol 138, Issue 20
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