[DeTomaso] : Back in the saddle
Julian Kift
julian_kift at hotmail.com
Wed Sep 10 18:07:39 EDT 2014
Ted Mitchell (Vader Racing) has done it;
http://www.tmitch.com/
Julian
From: michael at michaelshortt.com
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 18:03:55 -0400
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] : Back in the saddle
To: julian_kift at hotmail.com
CC: mikeldrew at aol.com; detomaso at poca.com
Has anybody ever attempted inboard rear brakes on a Pantera, it would be a really tight fit and even more heat, but I think it could be done.
Michael Shortt
On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 5:56 PM, Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:
Mike,
As I understand the reaming and sleeving of halfshafts was a
Hall Pantera work around for low availability and exorbitant pricing of
oem u-joints many years ago. Gary would sleeve the joint carriers down
to use a Spicer u-joint in the stock halfshaft. My '74 halfshafts were
like that and were basically junk, I'd advise anyone who doesn't know
what they have to check and if you find you have Spicer u-joints in
stock style half shaft then do something ASAP. If you need to replace
the half shafts then a switch to CV joints is indeed economical and
prudent at that point in my opinion.
I took advantage of one of Scott's Christmas sales and purchased two
set of his CV axle kits , one for each car. You don't tell us how much
you now have invested in your rebuilt and balanced but still 19th
Century technology halfshafts MIke? However, considering I can sell my
halfshafts to stubborn folks like you on eBay for over a third of the
cost of my CV's I'd say I'm ahead all round.
For serious owners who are also after the weight saving then changing
the ZF stub axles to CV stubs along with custom length CV axles that
don't then require the adapter would be the costly way to go. To do the
outboard side you'll need to find some aftermarket axles with a CV end,
which I don't believe are readily available.
The more interesting, but less discussed part of your post is the brake
upgrade; a big brake kit that you can use and improve braking whilst
retaining 15" wheels has to be an attraction for many, so hopefully all
your woes and support from Scott will translate into him being able to
offer a complete bolt on kit.
Julian
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 08:44:32 -0700
To: detomaso at poca.com
Subject: [DeTomaso] : Back in the saddle
From: detomaso at poca.com
> Hi guys,
>
> Some of you may remember that my Pantera has been up on my lift for the world'
s longest brake system upgrade project. Scott at SACC Restorations has been a d
ream to work with; on the other hand I have been a pain in his butt because of m
y unique requirements (must have big brakes, must run stock Campagnolo wheels) a
long with my own inability to overcome inertia when the project ran around (or m
ore accurately, when the wheels crashed into the calipers).
>
> Months would pass with spiffy new parts sitting on the floor, waiting to be in
stalled, but time constraints coupled with fundamental laziness made it impossib
le. And then, just when I thought I was finally done, I discovered my halfshaft
U-joints were shot. An attempt to rectify that situation at a PCNC tech sessio
n turned into what the British would term, "a dog's breakfast' with U-joint caps
being broken left and right.
>
> After ordering a stack of replacement U-joints, eventually I made the decision
to bring my halfshafts to a gen-u-ine driveshaft specialist to have them rebuil
t and balanced. I'm glad I did, because they discovered some of the ends of my
halfshafts had been damaged by a previous, long-ago owner and were bored out and
sleeved, so the new U-joints wouldn't fit properly. Fortunately I had some spa
re driveshaft bits in my parts stash that I had thoughtfully brought with me, so
among all the parts, they were able to generate two good halfshafts with new U-
joints installed.
>
> (If anybody has a desire for random halfshaft ends with U-joint holes that are
either oversize, or oval, or both, let me know and I'll make you a good deal!).
>
> I noted when I took my halfshafts out that four of the bolts (all four on the
inboard passenger side) were barely tight--this despite the fact that they had b
een installed and tightened properly just a few hundred miles earlier. I played
it safe and bought new lockwashers and new Grade 8 nylock nuts for reinstallati
on (curiously, the factory application calls for use of both split washers and n
ylock nuts; the bolts are just barely long enough for the nylock to engage the t
hreads on the bolt as a result).
>
> I finally got the car back on the ground and drove it around the block a coupl
e of days ago; last night I took it on its maiden voyage, about 45 minutes up to
the Capitol Panteras monthly meeting.
>
> I haven't had the opportunity to fully test the brakes yet (for now I can say
that they work, but the old ones seemed to work too, until I learned the balance
was AFU). I need to break in the new pads and rotors properly, something I'll
likely do next week. Bob Benson and I are going to be running at Laguna Seca on
the 21st (Brent Stewart is supposed to be running with us but he wimped out!) s
o I will definitely put them to the test there, but I plan to have full confiden
ce in them before leaving for the track.
>
> Anyway, the whole point of this missive is that I was shocked at how SMOOTH my
car ran last night. I've always been particularly impressed by my Pantera in c
omparison to the many others I've driven; thanks to the exorcism of a lot of rus
t and the substitution of much thicker and stronger steel in the floors and rock
ers, few feel as solid or buttoned-down as mine does (this despite the somewhat
floaty ride from the crappy old 50-series tires). My car has always had just a
slight tinge of vibration; nothing you could put your finger on, but something t
hat I just chalked up to the fact that the tires sit for long periods of time, a
re 20+ years old, it is a 42-year-old car, and 'they all do that sir'.
>
> While I had the halfshafts out I noted that the passenger side GTS tailpipe wa
s resting against the chassis, and that seemed like a good way to transmit unwan
ted noise and vibration, so I put the tailpipe into my 20-ton press and 'reprofi
led' the pipe slightly, so that it just barely clears the chassis now. And of c
ourse, when I installed the newly balanced halfshafts I made sure everything was
good and tight.
>
> I was astounded at the difference. My Pantera now feels like a brand new car
when cruising on the freeway. I'm convinced that my halfshafts were the source
of the feeling I no longer feel (although the exhaust may have played a role as
well). When I took the halfshafts apart originally, I discovered that the outbo
ard U-joints had been replaced, but they were stiff and unhappy, while the inboa
rd U-joints were original, with no provisions for lubrication, and were bone dry
and rusty--it's a miracle that I didn't have one of them snap on me!.
>
> While there is no doubt that CV-joint halfshafts are sexy, they are also expen
sive, and just as heavy as the stock ones. People have reported great improveme
nts when switching to CV-joint halfshafts, but I am here to tell you that the im
provement comes mostly (if not fully) from replacing the old ones, rather than f
rom the fact that they happened to have chosen CV-joint units to replace them wi
th. I think having my halfshafts rebuilt and balanced was some of the best mone
y I've ever spent!
I was so happy that I decided to drive the car to work this morning. I actually
got to work early as a result!
> > Mike >
_______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum Managed
by POCA DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso at poca.com
http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at poca.com
http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
--
Michael L. Shortt
Savannah, Georgia
www.michaelshortt.com
michael at michaelshortt.com
912-232-9390
This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified
that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you
have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you
-------------- next part --------------
Ted Mitchell (Vader Racing) has done it;
[1]http://www.tmitch.com/
Julian
__________________________________________________________________
From: michael at michaelshortt.com
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 18:03:55 -0400
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] : Back in the saddle
To: julian_kift at hotmail.com
CC: mikeldrew at aol.com; detomaso at poca.com
Has anybody ever attempted inboard rear brakes on a Pantera, it would
be a really tight fit and even more heat, but I think it could be done.
Michael Shortt
On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 5:56 PM, Julian Kift
<[2]julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:
Mike,
As I understand the reaming and sleeving of halfshafts was a
Hall Pantera work around for low availability and exorbitant
pricing of
oem u-joints many years ago. Gary would sleeve the joint carriers
down
to use a Spicer u-joint in the stock halfshaft. My '74
halfshafts were
like that and were basically junk, I'd advise anyone who doesn't
know
what they have to check and if you find you have Spicer u-joints
in
stock style half shaft then do something ASAP. If you need to
replace
the half shafts then a switch to CV joints is indeed economical
and
prudent at that point in my opinion.
I took advantage of one of Scott's Christmas sales and purchased
two
set of his CV axle kits , one for each car. You don't tell us how
much
you now have invested in your rebuilt and balanced but still 19th
Century technology halfshafts MIke? However, considering I can
sell my
halfshafts to stubborn folks like you on eBay for over a third of
the
cost of my CV's I'd say I'm ahead all round.
For serious owners who are also after the weight saving then
changing
the ZF stub axles to CV stubs along with custom length CV axles
that
don't then require the adapter would be the costly way to go. To
do the
outboard side you'll need to find some aftermarket axles with a
CV end,
which I don't believe are readily available.
The more interesting, but less discussed part of your post is the
brake
upgrade; a big brake kit that you can use and improve braking
whilst
retaining 15" wheels has to be an attraction for many, so
hopefully all
your woes and support from Scott will translate into him being
able to
offer a complete bolt on kit.
Julian
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 08:44:32 -0700
To: [3]detomaso at poca.com
Subject: [DeTomaso] : Back in the saddle
From: [4]detomaso at poca.com
> Hi guys,
>
> Some of you may remember that my Pantera has been up on my lift for
the world'
s longest brake system upgrade project. Scott at SACC Restorations has
been a d
ream to work with; on the other hand I have been a pain in his butt
because of m
y unique requirements (must have big brakes, must run stock Campagnolo
wheels) a
long with my own inability to overcome inertia when the project ran
around (or m
ore accurately, when the wheels crashed into the calipers).
>
> Months would pass with spiffy new parts sitting on the floor, waiting
to be in
stalled, but time constraints coupled with fundamental laziness made it
impossib
le. And then, just when I thought I was finally done, I discovered my
halfshaft
U-joints were shot. An attempt to rectify that situation at a PCNC
tech sessio
n turned into what the British would term, "a dog's breakfast' with
U-joint caps
being broken left and right.
>
> After ordering a stack of replacement U-joints, eventually I made the
decision
to bring my halfshafts to a gen-u-ine driveshaft specialist to have
them rebuil
t and balanced. I'm glad I did, because they discovered some of the
ends of my
halfshafts had been damaged by a previous, long-ago owner and were
bored out and
sleeved, so the new U-joints wouldn't fit properly. Fortunately I had
some spa
re driveshaft bits in my parts stash that I had thoughtfully brought
with me, so
among all the parts, they were able to generate two good halfshafts
with new U-
joints installed.
>
> (If anybody has a desire for random halfshaft ends with U-joint holes
that are
either oversize, or oval, or both, let me know and I'll make you a
good deal!).
>
> I noted when I took my halfshafts out that four of the bolts (all
four on the
inboard passenger side) were barely tight--this despite the fact that
they had b
een installed and tightened properly just a few hundred miles earlier.
I played
it safe and bought new lockwashers and new Grade 8 nylock nuts for
reinstallati
on (curiously, the factory application calls for use of both split
washers and n
ylock nuts; the bolts are just barely long enough for the nylock to
engage the t
hreads on the bolt as a result).
>
> I finally got the car back on the ground and drove it around the
block a coupl
e of days ago; last night I took it on its maiden voyage, about 45
minutes up to
the Capitol Panteras monthly meeting.
>
> I haven't had the opportunity to fully test the brakes yet (for now I
can say
that they work, but the old ones seemed to work too, until I learned
the balance
was AFU). I need to break in the new pads and rotors properly,
something I'll
likely do next week. Bob Benson and I are going to be running at
Laguna Seca on
the 21st (Brent Stewart is supposed to be running with us but he
wimped out!) s
o I will definitely put them to the test there, but I plan to have full
confiden
ce in them before leaving for the track.
>
> Anyway, the whole point of this missive is that I was shocked at how
SMOOTH my
car ran last night. I've always been particularly impressed by my
Pantera in c
omparison to the many others I've driven; thanks to the exorcism of a
lot of rus
t and the substitution of much thicker and stronger steel in the floors
and rock
ers, few feel as solid or buttoned-down as mine does (this despite the
somewhat
floaty ride from the crappy old 50-series tires). My car has always
had just a
slight tinge of vibration; nothing you could put your finger on, but
something t
hat I just chalked up to the fact that the tires sit for long periods
of time, a
re 20+ years old, it is a 42-year-old car, and 'they all do that sir'.
>
> While I had the halfshafts out I noted that the passenger side GTS
tailpipe wa
s resting against the chassis, and that seemed like a good way to
transmit unwan
ted noise and vibration, so I put the tailpipe into my 20-ton press and
'reprofi
led' the pipe slightly, so that it just barely clears the chassis now.
And of c
ourse, when I installed the newly balanced halfshafts I made sure
everything was
good and tight.
>
> I was astounded at the difference. My Pantera now feels like a brand
new car
when cruising on the freeway. I'm convinced that my halfshafts were
the source
of the feeling I no longer feel (although the exhaust may have played a
role as
well). When I took the halfshafts apart originally, I discovered that
the outbo
ard U-joints had been replaced, but they were stiff and unhappy, while
the inboa
rd U-joints were original, with no provisions for lubrication, and were
bone dry
and rusty--it's a miracle that I didn't have one of them snap on me!.
>
> While there is no doubt that CV-joint halfshafts are sexy, they are
also expen
sive, and just as heavy as the stock ones. People have reported great
improveme
nts when switching to CV-joint halfshafts, but I am here to tell you
that the im
provement comes mostly (if not fully) from replacing the old ones,
rather than f
rom the fact that they happened to have chosen CV-joint units to
replace them wi
th. I think having my halfshafts rebuilt and balanced was some of the
best mone
y I've ever spent!
I was so happy that I decided to drive the car to work this morning. I
actually
got to work early as a result!
> > Mike >
_______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum
Managed
by POCA DeTomaso mailing list [5]DeTomaso at poca.com
[6]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
DeTomaso mailing list
[7]DeTomaso at poca.com
[8]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
--
Michael L. Shortt
Savannah, Georgia
[9]www.michaelshortt.com
[10]michael at michaelshortt.com
912-232-9390[11] Call: 912-232-9390
This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified
that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that
you
have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you
References
1. http://www.tmitch.com/
2. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
3. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
4. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
5. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
6. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
7. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
8. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
9. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
10. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
11. file://localhost/tmp/tmpjpSwma.html
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