[DeTomaso] : Back in the saddle
michael at michaelshortt.com
michael at michaelshortt.com
Wed Sep 10 18:03:55 EDT 2014
Has anybody ever attempted inboard rear brakes on a Pantera, it would be a
really tight fit and even more heat, but I think it could be done.
Michael Shortt
On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 5:56 PM, Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
wrote:
> Mike,
>
> As I understand the reaming and sleeving of halfshafts was a
> Hall Pantera work around for low availability and exorbitant pricing of
> oem u-joints many years ago. Gary would sleeve the joint carriers down
> to use a Spicer u-joint in the stock halfshaft. My '74 halfshafts were
> like that and were basically junk, I'd advise anyone who doesn't know
> what they have to check and if you find you have Spicer u-joints in
> stock style half shaft then do something ASAP. If you need to replace
> the half shafts then a switch to CV joints is indeed economical and
> prudent at that point in my opinion.
>
> I took advantage of one of Scott's Christmas sales and purchased two
> set of his CV axle kits , one for each car. You don't tell us how much
> you now have invested in your rebuilt and balanced but still 19th
> Century technology halfshafts MIke? However, considering I can sell my
> halfshafts to stubborn folks like you on eBay for over a third of the
> cost of my CV's I'd say I'm ahead all round.
>
> For serious owners who are also after the weight saving then changing
> the ZF stub axles to CV stubs along with custom length CV axles that
> don't then require the adapter would be the costly way to go. To do the
> outboard side you'll need to find some aftermarket axles with a CV end,
> which I don't believe are readily available.
>
> The more interesting, but less discussed part of your post is the brake
> upgrade; a big brake kit that you can use and improve braking whilst
> retaining 15" wheels has to be an attraction for many, so hopefully all
> your woes and support from Scott will translate into him being able to
> offer a complete bolt on kit.
>
> Julian
>
> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 08:44:32 -0700
> To: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] : Back in the saddle
> From: detomaso at poca.com
>
> > Hi guys,
> >
> > Some of you may remember that my Pantera has been up on my lift for the
> world'
> s longest brake system upgrade project. Scott at SACC Restorations has
> been a d
> ream to work with; on the other hand I have been a pain in his butt
> because of m
> y unique requirements (must have big brakes, must run stock Campagnolo
> wheels) a
> long with my own inability to overcome inertia when the project ran around
> (or m
> ore accurately, when the wheels crashed into the calipers).
> >
> > Months would pass with spiffy new parts sitting on the floor, waiting to
> be in
> stalled, but time constraints coupled with fundamental laziness made it
> impossib
> le. And then, just when I thought I was finally done, I discovered my
> halfshaft
> U-joints were shot. An attempt to rectify that situation at a PCNC tech
> sessio
> n turned into what the British would term, "a dog's breakfast' with
> U-joint caps
> being broken left and right.
> >
> > After ordering a stack of replacement U-joints, eventually I made the
> decision
> to bring my halfshafts to a gen-u-ine driveshaft specialist to have them
> rebuil
> t and balanced. I'm glad I did, because they discovered some of the ends
> of my
> halfshafts had been damaged by a previous, long-ago owner and were bored
> out and
> sleeved, so the new U-joints wouldn't fit properly. Fortunately I had
> some spa
> re driveshaft bits in my parts stash that I had thoughtfully brought with
> me, so
> among all the parts, they were able to generate two good halfshafts with
> new U-
> joints installed.
> >
> > (If anybody has a desire for random halfshaft ends with U-joint holes
> that are
> either oversize, or oval, or both, let me know and I'll make you a good
> deal!).
> >
> > I noted when I took my halfshafts out that four of the bolts (all four
> on the
> inboard passenger side) were barely tight--this despite the fact that they
> had b
> een installed and tightened properly just a few hundred miles earlier. I
> played
> it safe and bought new lockwashers and new Grade 8 nylock nuts for
> reinstallati
> on (curiously, the factory application calls for use of both split washers
> and n
> ylock nuts; the bolts are just barely long enough for the nylock to engage
> the t
> hreads on the bolt as a result).
> >
> > I finally got the car back on the ground and drove it around the block a
> coupl
> e of days ago; last night I took it on its maiden voyage, about 45 minutes
> up to
> the Capitol Panteras monthly meeting.
> >
> > I haven't had the opportunity to fully test the brakes yet (for now I
> can say
> that they work, but the old ones seemed to work too, until I learned the
> balance
> was AFU). I need to break in the new pads and rotors properly, something
> I'll
> likely do next week. Bob Benson and I are going to be running at Laguna
> Seca on
> the 21st (Brent Stewart is supposed to be running with us but he wimped
> out!) s
> o I will definitely put them to the test there, but I plan to have full
> confiden
> ce in them before leaving for the track.
> >
> > Anyway, the whole point of this missive is that I was shocked at how
> SMOOTH my
> car ran last night. I've always been particularly impressed by my
> Pantera in c
> omparison to the many others I've driven; thanks to the exorcism of a lot
> of rus
> t and the substitution of much thicker and stronger steel in the floors
> and rock
> ers, few feel as solid or buttoned-down as mine does (this despite the
> somewhat
> floaty ride from the crappy old 50-series tires). My car has always had
> just a
> slight tinge of vibration; nothing you could put your finger on, but
> something t
> hat I just chalked up to the fact that the tires sit for long periods of
> time, a
> re 20+ years old, it is a 42-year-old car, and 'they all do that sir'.
> >
> > While I had the halfshafts out I noted that the passenger side GTS
> tailpipe wa
> s resting against the chassis, and that seemed like a good way to transmit
> unwan
> ted noise and vibration, so I put the tailpipe into my 20-ton press and
> 'reprofi
> led' the pipe slightly, so that it just barely clears the chassis now.
> And of c
> ourse, when I installed the newly balanced halfshafts I made sure
> everything was
> good and tight.
> >
> > I was astounded at the difference. My Pantera now feels like a brand
> new car
> when cruising on the freeway. I'm convinced that my halfshafts were the
> source
> of the feeling I no longer feel (although the exhaust may have played a
> role as
> well). When I took the halfshafts apart originally, I discovered that the
> outbo
> ard U-joints had been replaced, but they were stiff and unhappy, while the
> inboa
> rd U-joints were original, with no provisions for lubrication, and were
> bone dry
> and rusty--it's a miracle that I didn't have one of them snap on me!.
> >
> > While there is no doubt that CV-joint halfshafts are sexy, they are also
> expen
> sive, and just as heavy as the stock ones. People have reported great
> improveme
> nts when switching to CV-joint halfshafts, but I am here to tell you that
> the im
> provement comes mostly (if not fully) from replacing the old ones, rather
> than f
> rom the fact that they happened to have chosen CV-joint units to replace
> them wi
> th. I think having my halfshafts rebuilt and balanced was some of the
> best mone
> y I've ever spent!
>
> I was so happy that I decided to drive the car to work this morning. I
> actually
> got to work early as a result!
>
>
> > > Mike >
> _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum Managed
> by POCA DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
--
Michael L. Shortt
Savannah, Georgia
www.michaelshortt.com
michael at michaelshortt.com
912-232-9390
This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified
that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you
have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you
-------------- next part --------------
Has anybody ever attempted inboard rear brakes on a Pantera, it would
be a really tight fit and even more heat, but I think it could be done.
Michael Shortt
On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 5:56 PM, Julian Kift
<[1]julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:
A A Mike,
A A As I understand the reaming and sleeving of halfshafts was a
A A Hall Pantera work around for low availability and exorbitant
pricing of
A A oem u-joints many years ago. Gary would sleeve the joint
carriers down
A A to useA a Spicer u-joint in the stock halfshaft. My '74
halfshafts were
A A like that and were basically junk, I'd advise anyone who
doesn't know
A A what they have to check and if you find you have Spicer
u-joints in
A A stock style half shaft then do something ASAP. If you need to
replace
A A the half shafts then a switch to CV joints is indeed economical
and
A A prudent at that point in my opinion.
A A I took advantage of one of Scott's Christmas sales and
purchased two
A A set of his CV axle kits , one for each car. You don't tell us
how much
A A you now have invested in your rebuilt and balanced but still
19th
A A Century technology halfshafts MIke? However, considering I can
sell my
A A halfshafts to stubborn folks like you on eBay for over a third
of the
A A cost of my CV's I'd say I'm ahead all round.
A A For serious owners who are also after the weight saving then
changing
A A the ZF stub axles to CV stubs along with custom length CV axles
that
A A don't then require the adapter would be the costly way to go.
To do the
A A outboard side you'll need to find some aftermarket axles with a
CV end,
A A which I don't believe are readily available.
A A The more interesting, but less discussed part of your post is
the brake
A A upgrade; a big brake kit that you can use and improve braking
whilst
A A retaining 15" wheels has to be an attraction for many, so
hopefully all
A A your woes and support from Scott will translate into him being
able to
A A offer a complete bolt on kit.
A A Julian
A A Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 08:44:32 -0700
A A To: [2]detomaso at poca.com
A A Subject: [DeTomaso] : Back in the saddle
A A From: [3]detomaso at poca.com
> Hi guys,
>
> Some of you may remember that my Pantera has been up on my lift for
the world'
s longest brake system upgrade project.A Scott at SACC Restorations
has been a d
ream to work with; on the other hand I have been a pain in his butt
because of m
y unique requirements (must have big brakes, must run stock Campagnolo
wheels) a
long with my own inability to overcome inertia when the project ran
around (or m
ore accurately, when the wheels crashed into the calipers).
>
> Months would pass with spiffy new parts sitting on the floor, waiting
to be in
stalled, but time constraints coupled with fundamental laziness made it
impossib
le.A And then, just when I thought I was finally done, I discovered my
halfshaft
A U-joints were shot.A An attempt to rectify that situation at a PCNC
tech sessio
n turned into what the British would term, "a dog's breakfast' with
U-joint caps
A being broken left and right.
>
> After ordering a stack of replacement U-joints, eventually I made the
decision
A to bring my halfshafts to a gen-u-ine driveshaft specialist to have
them rebuil
t and balanced.A I'm glad I did, because they discovered some of the
ends of my
halfshafts had been damaged by a previous, long-ago owner and were
bored out and
A sleeved, so the new U-joints wouldn't fit properly.A Fortunately I
had some spa
re driveshaft bits in my parts stash that I had thoughtfully brought
with me, so
A among all the parts, they were able to generate two good halfshafts
with new U-
joints installed.
>
> (If anybody has a desire for random halfshaft ends with U-joint holes
that are
A either oversize, or oval, or both, let me know and I'll make you a
good deal!).
>
> I noted when I took my halfshafts out that four of the bolts (all
four on the
inboard passenger side) were barely tight--this despite the fact that
they had b
een installed and tightened properly just a few hundred miles
earlier.A I played
A it safe and bought new lockwashers and new Grade 8 nylock nuts for
reinstallati
on (curiously, the factory application calls for use of both split
washers and n
ylock nuts; the bolts are just barely long enough for the nylock to
engage the t
hreads on the bolt as a result).
>
> I finally got the car back on the ground and drove it around the
block a coupl
e of days ago; last night I took it on its maiden voyage, about 45
minutes up to
A the Capitol Panteras monthly meeting.
>
> I haven't had the opportunity to fully test the brakes yet (for now I
can say
that they work, but the old ones seemed to work too, until I learned
the balance
A was AFU).A I need to break in the new pads and rotors properly,
something I'll
likely do next week.A Bob Benson and I are going to be running at
Laguna Seca on
A the 21st (Brent Stewart is supposed to be running with us but he
wimped out!) s
o I will definitely put them to the test there, but I plan to have full
confiden
ce in them before leaving for the track.
>
> Anyway, the whole point of this missive is that I was shocked at how
SMOOTH my
A car ran last night.A I've always been particularly impressed by my
Pantera in c
omparison to the many others I've driven; thanks to the exorcism of a
lot of rus
t and the substitution of much thicker and stronger steel in the floors
and rock
ers, few feel as solid or buttoned-down as mine does (this despite the
somewhat
floaty ride from the crappy old 50-series tires).A My car has always
had just a
slight tinge of vibration; nothing you could put your finger on, but
something t
hat I just chalked up to the fact that the tires sit for long periods
of time, a
re 20+ years old, it is a 42-year-old car, and 'they all do that sir'.
>
> While I had the halfshafts out I noted that the passenger side GTS
tailpipe wa
s resting against the chassis, and that seemed like a good way to
transmit unwan
ted noise and vibration, so I put the tailpipe into my 20-ton press and
'reprofi
led' the pipe slightly, so that it just barely clears the chassis
now.A And of c
ourse, when I installed the newly balanced halfshafts I made sure
everything was
A good and tight.
>
> I was astounded at the difference.A My Pantera now feels like a
brand new car
when cruising on the freeway.A I'm convinced that my halfshafts were
the source
of the feeling I no longer feel (although the exhaust may have played a
role as
well).A When I took the halfshafts apart originally, I discovered that
the outbo
ard U-joints had been replaced, but they were stiff and unhappy, while
the inboa
rd U-joints were original, with no provisions for lubrication, and were
bone dry
A and rusty--it's a miracle that I didn't have one of them snap on me!.
>
> While there is no doubt that CV-joint halfshafts are sexy, they are
also expen
sive, and just as heavy as the stock ones.A People have reported great
improveme
nts when switching to CV-joint halfshafts, but I am here to tell you
that the im
provement comes mostly (if not fully) from replacing the old ones,
rather than f
rom the fact that they happened to have chosen CV-joint units to
replace them wi
th.A I think having my halfshafts rebuilt and balanced was some of the
best mone
y I've ever spent!
I was so happy that I decided to drive the car to work this morning. I
actually
got to work early as a result!
A A > > Mike >
A A _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum
Managed
A A by POCA DeTomaso mailing list [4]DeTomaso at poca.com
A A [5]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
DeTomaso mailing list
[6]DeTomaso at poca.com
[7]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
--
Michael L. Shortt
Savannah, Georgia
[8]www.michaelshortt.com
[9]michael at michaelshortt.com
912-232-9390
A
This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
privileged.A If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified
that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is strictly prohibited.A Please reply to the sender that
you
have received this message in error, then delete it.A Thank you
References
1. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
2. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
3. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
4. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
5. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
6. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
7. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
8. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
9. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
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