[DeTomaso] Caster on 5332
Sean Korb
spkorb at gmail.com
Sun Nov 30 19:40:45 EST 2014
Because the crown of the road varies widely, and alignment adjustments are
never as precise as we would like (this is a practicality issue since
infinitely fine adjustment is not possible on most chassis and might not be
desirable since fine adjustment might require weaker components than coarse
adjustment) those in the profession simply make sure taht all the "error"
in their adjustments favor a pull to the left. You will get a very slight
pull on a level surface and on some crowns you will go dead straight and
others it will drift right.
Set it as best you can within approved tolerances and be happy :)
sean
On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 6:13 PM, Stephen <steve at snclocks.com> wrote:
> I'm revisiting a discussion from earlier this year. I just checked the
> alignment on 5332 after putting in offset poly bushing on both upper and
> lower a-arms. Came up with 5 degrees on the passenger side, 4 degrees on
> the drivers. I recall hearing one time that the driver's side caster
> should be a bit less than the passengers to compensate for the crown on
> roads. I don't have a lot of room to maneuver when it comes to shims on
> the ball joints. All the shims are in front of the driver's side top ball
> joint, so can't increase it any just by moving shims. On the passenger
> side, there is one thin shim (0.9 mm) on the front of the ball joint, so I
> could move it to the back, thereby reducing the 5 degrees to around 4.8.
>
> Found one website that stated " to offset road crown, the top left
> steering knuckle is always leading the right; the right side has more
> positive caster."
>
> So, the question is, how much less caster is desirable to compensate for
> road crown? The web suggests 0.5 degrees max. Any comments from those who
> have played with caster?
>
> Oh, I also installed the camber lock devices that Pantera Performance
> markets. Camber is set at 0.
>
> Stephen Nelson
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of
> cengles at cox.net
> Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2014 1:46 PM
> To: kenn_green at yahoo.com
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Any experience with Marino's offset control arm
> bushings to increase caster?
>
>
> Dear Ken and Dave,
>
> About twenty years ago, Dennis Quella told me about the
> offset bushings. At that time in the Pre-Cambrian Era there were no
> "factory" off set bushings and you had to make your own. The first set
> I did went on Pantera No. One and I got about 3 degrees positive caster.
> I wasn't happy with that and pulled then off and had a custom upper A arm
> fabricated for more caster.
>
> I liked the caster benefits so much that I decided I would
> convert the old tired rubber bushings on Pantera No. Two to the poly
> bushings and I would apply the hacksaw to the the poly with more vigor.
> One cuts off as much of the thick end as you dare and then make up the
> difference on the other end with appropriately sized fender washers.
> Apparently, I hit it on the nose and the alignment shop documented an
> impressive positive five degrees caster. Despite the rather aggressive
> modification of the bushing into a really serious offset bushing, it has
> held up over twenty years and thousands of miles.
>
> One caveat: with positive caster of 4 to 5 degrees positive
> and wide tires and stock Pantera fenders, it *is* possible to have the tire
> kiss the outer front fender lip.....with unpleasant results. If you go for
> the big caster and big tires, then be sure you roll the fender lip and an
> early visit to a body man for some very discrete and gentle fender edge
> "adjustment" is advised.
>
> The Positive Castor Ambassador, Chuck Engles
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 2:29 PM, Ken Green wrote:
>
>
> Chuck,
>
> Marino said they only provide maybe one additional degree of caster.
> Did you do something more than just make one end thinner?
> Seems like you can only get maybe 1/8 inch (1/4 inch total) of shifting?
> I'm not sure what the separation between ball joints is, but that looks
> like less than 2 degrees of added caster?
>
> Ken
>
> From: "cengles at cox.net" <cengles at cox.net>
> To: kenn_green at yahoo.com
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Sent: Wednesday, April 2, 2014 11:33 AM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Any experience with Marino's offset control arm
> bushings to increase caster?
>
> Dear Ken,
>
> 1) no experience with Marino's offset bushings
>
> 2) The offset homemade bushings I have provide 5 degrees of
> positive caster with major improvement in handling and high speed
> stability. Highly recommended
>
> 3) Marino is a good guy and a reliable, reputable
> vendor
> in my opinion.
>
> Go buy'em, Chuck Engles
>
> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Ken Green wrote:
>
> > Can anyone comment of the benefitA and durability ofA Marino's offset
> front control armA bushings?A
>
> >
>
> > Thanks,
>
> >
>
> > Ken
>
> >
>
> > ------------------------------
>
> >
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> >
>
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
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--
Sean Korb spkorb at spkorb.org http://www.spkorb.org
'65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
-------------- next part --------------
Because the crown of the road varies widely, and alignment adjustments
are never as precise as we would like (this is a practicality issue
since infinitely fine adjustment is not possible on most chassis and
might not be desirable since fine adjustment might require weaker
components than coarse adjustment) those in the profession simply make
sure taht all the "error" in their adjustments favor a pull to the
left.A You will get a very slight pull on a level surface and on some
crowns you will go dead straight and others it will drift right.
Set it as best you can within approved tolerances and be happy :)
sean
On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 6:13 PM, Stephen <[1]steve at snclocks.com> wrote:
I'm revisiting a discussion from earlier this year.A I just checked
the alignment on 5332 after putting in offset poly bushing on both
upper and lower a-arms.A Came up with 5 degrees on the passenger
side, 4 degrees on the drivers.A I recall hearing one time that the
driver's side caster should be a bit less than the passengers to
compensate for the crown on roads.A I don't have a lot of room to
maneuver when it comes to shims on the ball joints.A All the shims
are in front of the driver's side top ball joint, so can't increase
it any just by moving shims.A On the passenger side, there is one
thin shim (0.9 mm) on the front of the ball joint, so I could move
it to the back, thereby reducing the 5 degrees to around 4.8.
Found one website that stated " to offset road crown, the top left
steering knuckle is always leading the right; the right side has
more positive caster."
So, the question is, how much less caster is desirable to compensate
for road crown?A The web suggests 0.5 degrees max.A Any comments
from those who have played with caster?
Oh, I also installed the camber lock devices that Pantera
Performance markets.A Camber is set at 0.
Stephen Nelson
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [mailto:[2]detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of
[3]cengles at cox.net
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2014 1:46 PM
To: [4]kenn_green at yahoo.com
Cc: [5]detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Any experience with Marino's offset control
arm bushings to increase caster?
Dear Ken and Dave,
A A A A A A A About twenty years ago, Dennis Quella told me
about the offset bushings.A At that time in the Pre-Cambrian Era
there were no
"factory" off set bushings and you had to make your own.A A The
first set
I did went on Pantera No. One and I got about 3 degrees positive
caster.
I wasn't happy with that and pulled then off and had a custom upper
A arm fabricated for more caster.
A A A A A A A I liked the caster benefits so much that I
decided I would convert the old tired rubber bushings on Pantera No.
Two to the poly bushings and I would apply the hacksaw to the the
poly with more vigor.
One cuts off as much of the thick end as you dare and then make up
the difference on the other end with appropriately sized fender
washers.
Apparently, I hit it on the nose and the alignment shop documented
an impressive positive five degrees caster.A Despite the rather
aggressive modification of the bushing into a really serious offset
bushing, it has held up over twenty years and thousands of miles.
A A A A A A A One caveat: with positive caster of 4 to 5
degrees positive and wide tires and stock Pantera fenders, it *is*
possible to have the tire kiss the outer front fender lip.....with
unpleasant results.A If you go for the big caster and big tires,
then be sure you roll the fender lip and an early visit to a body
man for some very discrete and gentle fender edge "adjustment" is
advised.
A A A A A A A A A A A A A A The Positive Castor
Ambassador,A Chuck Engles
On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 2:29 PM, Ken Green wrote:
Chuck,
A A A Marino said they only provide maybe one additional degree of
caster.A Did you do something more than just make one end thinner?
Seems like you can only get maybe 1/8 inch (1/4 inch total) of
shifting?
I'm not sure what the separation between ball joints is, but that
looks like less than 2 degrees of added caster?
Ken
From: "[6]cengles at cox.net" <[7]cengles at cox.net>
To: [8]kenn_green at yahoo.com
Cc: [9]detomaso at poca.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 2, 2014 11:33 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Any experience with Marino's offset control
arm bushings to increase caster?
A A Dear Ken,
A A A A A A A A 1) no experience with Marino's offset
bushings
A A A A A A A A 2)A The offset homemade bushings I have
provide 5 degrees of
A A positive caster with major improvement in handling and high
speed
A A stability.A Highly recommended
A A A A A A A A 3)A A Marino is a good guy and a reliable,
reputable
vendor
A A in my opinion.
A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A Go buy'em,A
A Chuck Engles
A A On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Ken Green wrote:
A A > Can anyone comment of the benefitA and durability ofA
Marino's offset
A A front control armA bushings?A
A A >
A A > Thanks,
A A >
A A > Ken
A A >
A A >A A A ------------------------------
A A >
A A > _______________________________________________
A A >
A A > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
A A >
A A > DeTomaso mailing list
A A > [10]DeTomaso at poca.com
<javascript:parent.wgMail.openComposeWindow('[11]DeTomaso at poca.com')
>
A A > [12]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
<[13]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com>
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--
Sean Korb [21]spkorb at spkorb.org [22]http://www.spkorb.org
'65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera
#1382
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
"Computers are useless.A They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
References
1. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
2. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
3. mailto:cengles at cox.net
4. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
5. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
6. mailto:cengles at cox.net
7. mailto:cengles at cox.net
8. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
9. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
10. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
11. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
12. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
13. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
14. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
15. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
16. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
17. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
18. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
19. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
20. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
21. mailto:spkorb at spkorb.org
22. http://www.spkorb.org/
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