[DeTomaso] Fwd: Japanese WWII Submarine... and Rockets
Boyd Casey
boyd411 at gmail.com
Fri May 16 23:41:49 EDT 2014
Dear Ken and Pantdino,
I don't feel much in the way of sympathy for the civilians in either
Germany or Japan. Not that I think that all the civilians were guilty or
shared equally in the guilt of their leaders but at the same time I don't
believe then can all be completely absolved. Just about every country
involved in WWII lost more civilian casualties then combatants. That's just
what happens when countries engage in total war. And Ken I don't think
anyone is going to accuse you of being pro slavery or soft on former slave
owners.
Boyd
On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 11:21 PM, Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com> wrote:
> It is my limited understanding that in the Shinto religion the Japanese
> viewed themselves as a divine race above all others. That would have
> allowed them to de-humanize all others and use them as we might use
> cattle.
>
> Personally, I don't think some (definitely not all) slave ownership in the
> South was not much better. However, from my reading, Robert E. Lee and
> Stonewall Jackson (among others) were not all like that and treated
> slaves drastically better, so please do not take this as a generalization,
> just an example how one group can de-humanize another, and treat them worse
> than they would treat animals.
>
> Ken
> *From:* Boyd Casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>
> *To:* Jerry Knotts <knottsj at galstar.com>
> *Cc:* "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, May 16, 2014 4:19 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [DeTomaso] Fwd: Japanese WWII Submarine... and Rockets
>
> I certainly don't want to be construed as having anything nice to say
> about the Nazi's , but they were practically boy scouts compared to the
> Japanese. Ken the things you made reference to in your reference to
> Unit 731 was who I was referring to when I said they committed acts to
> heinous to think about. Besides their atrocities connected to germ
> warfare their rape of Nanking was a rape murder fest of unbelievable
> proportions. A local Tokyo newspaper reported on a competition between
> two Japanese Non-commissioned officers. They were competing to see who
> could behead by sword the greatest number of Chinese civilians. The
> newspaper reported on this like it was a baseball came keeping score
> with people groups cheering for the Non-comm from their area.
> Mitsubishi used US POW's as slave labor in their factories. Us POW's in
> Germany had a 90% survival rate, US POW's in Japan had a 90% mortality
> rate! It still kills me when I see reports and interviews (now 20+
> years old) of Japanese veterans and former politicians calling America
> "uncivilized " for using the Atomic bombs A on Japan. My Grandfather
>
> was on Bataan and was one of the lucky few who got to evacuate with
> MacArthur on the P.T. boats and was also part of the Army of occupation
> in Japan after WWII, so I heard stories growing up about the Bataan
> death march ( and other atrocities) that didn't leave me feeling any
> sympathy for the Japanese. It's interesting to me that a people who
> seem so civilized and polite could be so cruel and vicious A in war.
> Boyd
>
> On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 6:17 PM, Jerry Knotts <[1]knottsj at galstar.com>
>
> wrote:
>
> I remember when Sputnik was launched to the suprise and embarasement
> of the US. A One of the news casters stated that he would like to
>
> congratulate the Soviet engineers that put Sputnik in orbit, but he
> didn't speak German.
> jerry knotts
> On 5/16/2014 3:40 PM, Boyd Casey wrote:
>
> A A My grandfather Maj Gen. Hugh J. Casey A was the Chief engineer
> of the
> A A entire Pacific Theater in World War II A and my Great Uncle
> Gen (4
>
> A A Star) Lucius Clay was he military governor of the US zone of
> occupation
> A A at the end of WWII. So I heard a lot about what happened behind
> the
> A A scenes before , during and after WWII. Werner Von Braun was both
>
> A A accused of being a Nazi A and being guilty of war crimes due
> to his use
>
> A A of slave labor and his design of weapons used on civilians. It is
> also
> A A true that the SS arrested WVB at one point and if it weren't for
> the
> A A direct intervention of Hitler (possibly at the request of Albert
> Speer)
> A A WVB may have boot surveyed until the end of the war. There was a
>
> A A continual power struggle between Himmler, Goering A and the
> upper
>
> A A echelon of the Nazis and the S.S.. The bottom line is that The US
> A A recognized the importance of Rocket science and recognized WVB as
> the
> A A preeminent expert in Germany. The German Rocket program was
> located in
> A A a part of Europe that was already scheduled to be under the
> control of
> A A the Soviets. The Americans made a mad dash into this area to
> capture as
> A A much hardware and material as well as a many personnel as
> possible. WVB
> A A and his entire staff were at the same time doing everything in
> their
> A A power to surrender to the US instead of falling into Russian
> hands. The
> A A official name of the program to bring German scientists into the
> United
> A A states specifically to work on war related technology was called
> A A "Operation paper clip. It was technically Illegal to hire anyone
> who
> A A was officially a Nazi. So efforts were made and personal
> histories were
> A A falsified in order to circumvent theses rules. A subject that I
> find
> A A more interesting is the case of the Japanese germ warfare expert
> who
> A A was responsible for the deaths of thousands of Chinese and
> possibly
> A A some US POW's using germ warfare and doing germ warfare
> experiments.
> A A The United States felt that they were far behind the Japanese and
> A A pardoned the Japanese scientist who was responsible for the
> program
> A A that dropped rats carrying fleas infected with bubonic plague on
> to
> A A Chinese cities .He also carried out other absolutely horrible
> human
> A A experimentation test various agents to kill civilians in
> "Scientific
> A A studies". After the war was over and this Japanese individual was
> A A pardoned it was found that the Japanese germ warfare program had
> been
> A A conducted in such an amateur manner that is was of virtually no
> A A scientific value. So This Japanese scientist who was personally
> A A responsible for thousands of deaths ( some of which were
> absolutely
> A A horrible in there cruelty and the level of suffering that it's
> subjects
> A A were forced to endure) got off scot free and we didn't even reap
> any
> A A benefits from all of his "research". At least WVB got us to the
> moon!
> A A Hugh Boyd Casey
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [2]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [3]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:knottsj at galstar.com
> 2. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>
> 3. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
Dear Ken and Pantdino,
I don't feel much in the way of sympathy for the civilians in either
Germany or Japan. Not that I think that all the civilians were guilty
or shared equally in the guilt of their leaders but at the same time I
don't believe then can all be completely absolved. Just about every
country involved in WWII lost more civilian casualties then combatants.
That's just what happens when countries engage in total war. And Ken I
don't think anyone is going to accuse you of being pro slavery or soft
on former slave owners.
Boyd
On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 11:21 PM, Ken Green <[1]kenn_green at yahoo.com>
wrote:
It is my limited understanding that in the Shinto religion the Japanese
viewed themselves as a divine race above all others.A That would have
allowed them to de-humanize all others and use them as we might use
cattle.A
Personally, I don't think some (definitely not all) slave ownership in
the South was not much better.A However, from my reading, Robert E.
Lee and Stonewall Jackson (among others) were not all like that and
treated slavesA drastically better, so please do not take this as a
generalization, just an example how one group can de-humanize another,
and treat them worse than they would treat animals.
Ken
From: Boyd Casey <[2]boyd411 at gmail.com>
To: Jerry Knotts <[3]knottsj at galstar.com>
Cc: "[4]detomaso at poca.com" <[5]detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 4:19 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Fwd: Japanese WWII Submarine... and Rockets
A I certainly don't want to be construed as having anything nice to
say
A about the Nazi's , but they were practically boy scouts compared to
the
A Japanese. Ken the things you made reference to in your reference to
A Unit 731 was who I was referring to when I said they committed acts
to
A heinous to think about. Besides their atrocities connected to germ
A warfare their rape of Nanking was a rape murder fest of unbelievable
A proportions. A local Tokyo newspaper reported on a competition
between
A two Japanese Non-commissioned officers. They were competing to see
who
A could behead by sword the greatest number of Chinese civilians. The
A newspaper reported on this like it was a baseball came keeping score
A with people groups cheering for the Non-comm from their area.
A Mitsubishi used US POW's as slave labor in their factories. Us POW's
in
A Germany had a 90% survival rate, US POW's in Japan had a 90%
mortality
A rate! It still kills me when I see reports and interviews (now 20+
A years old) of Japanese veterans and former politicians calling
America
A "uncivilized " for using the Atomic bombs A on Japan. My Grandfather
A was on Bataan and was one of the lucky few who got to evacuate with
A MacArthur on the P.T. boats and was also part of the Army of
occupation
A in Japan after WWII, so I heard stories growing up about the Bataan
A death march ( and other atrocities) that didn't leave me feeling any
A sympathy for the Japanese. It's interesting to me that a people who
A seem so civilized and polite could be so cruel and vicious A in war.
A Boyd
A On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 6:17 PM, Jerry Knotts
<[1][6]knottsj at galstar.com>
A wrote:
A A I remember when Sputnik was launched to the suprise and
embarasement
A A of the US. A One of the news casters stated that he would like to
A A congratulate the Soviet engineers that put Sputnik in orbit, but
he
A A didn't speak German.
A A jerry knotts
A A On 5/16/2014 3:40 PM, Boyd Casey wrote:
A A AA AA My grandfather Maj Gen. Hugh J. Casey A was the Chief
engineer
A A of the
A A AA AA entire Pacific Theater in World War II A and my Great
Uncle
A A Gen (4
A AA AA Star) Lucius Clay was he military governor of the US zone of
A occupation
A AA AA at the end of WWII. So I heard a lot about what happened
behind
A the
A AA AA scenes before , during and after WWII. Werner Von Braun was
both
A A AA AA accused of being a Nazi A and being guilty of war crimes
due
A A to his use
A AA AA of slave labor and his design of weapons used on civilians.
It is
A also
A AA AA true that the SS arrested WVB at one point and if it weren't
for
A the
A AA AA direct intervention of Hitler (possibly at the request of
Albert
A Speer)
A AA AA WVB may have boot surveyed until the end of the war. There
was a
A A AA AA continual power struggle between Himmler, Goering A and
the
A A upper
A AA AA echelon of the Nazis and the S.S.. The bottom line is that
The US
A AA AA recognized the importance of Rocket science and recognized
WVB as
A the
A AA AA preeminent expert in Germany. The German Rocket program was
A located in
A AA AA a part of Europe that was already scheduled to be under the
A control of
A AA AA the Soviets. The Americans made a mad dash into this area to
A capture as
A AA AA much hardware and material as well as a many personnel as
A possible. WVB
A AA AA and his entire staff were at the same time doing everything
in
A their
A AA AA power to surrender to the US instead of falling into Russian
A hands. The
A AA AA official name of the program to bring German scientists into
the
A United
A AA AA states specifically to work on war related technology was
called
A AA AA "Operation paper clip. It was technically Illegal to hire
anyone
A who
A AA AA was officially a Nazi. So efforts were made and personal
A histories were
A AA AA falsified in order to circumvent theses rules. A subject
that I
A find
A AA AA more interesting is the case of the Japanese germ warfare
expert
A who
A AA AA was responsible for the deaths of thousands of Chinese and
A possibly
A AA AA some US POW's using germ warfare and doing germ warfare
A experiments.
A AA AA The United States felt that they were far behind the
Japanese and
A AA AA pardoned the Japanese scientist who was responsible for the
A program
A AA AA that dropped rats carrying fleas infected with bubonic
plague on
A to
A AA AA Chinese cities .He also carried out other absolutely
horrible
A human
A AA AA experimentation test various agents to kill civilians in
A "Scientific
A AA AA studies". After the war was over and this Japanese
individual was
A AA AA pardoned it was found that the Japanese germ warfare program
had
A been
A AA AA conducted in such an amateur manner that is was of virtually
no
A AA AA scientific value. So This Japanese scientist who was
personally
A AA AA responsible for thousands of deaths ( some of which were
A absolutely
A AA AA horrible in there cruelty and the level of suffering that
it's
A subjects
A AA AA were forced to endure) got off scot free and we didn't even
reap
A any
A AA AA benefits from all of his "research". At least WVB got us to
the
A moon!
A AA AA Hugh Boyd Casey
A _______________________________________________
A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
A DeTomaso mailing list
A [2][7]DeTomaso at poca.com
A [3][8]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
References
A 1. mailto:[9]knottsj at galstar.com
A 2. mailto:[10]DeTomaso at poca.com
A 3. [11]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
DeTomaso mailing list
[12]DeTomaso at poca.com
[13]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
References
1. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
2. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
3. mailto:knottsj at galstar.com
4. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
5. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
6. mailto:knottsj at galstar.com
7. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
8. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
9. mailto:knottsj at galstar.com
10. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
11. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
12. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
13. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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