[DeTomaso] Documentation of Panteras increased value
Al Gisby
algisby at hotmail.com
Thu Mar 27 03:49:38 EDT 2014
Dear AllI'm under 40 (1975 kid) and have a pantera. I have also been tinkling with classics for many years.
A factory MGB GT V8 proceeded the Pantera and I still have a series 1 MX5 [miata to most of you] and a Mexico bug to keep me busy along with the Pantera.
Coming from the UK, there was always a larger group of 'youngsters' getting involved in classics as particular cars [and tools] are more accessible and cheaper. Since being here in Italy, the classics are always grandpa's hobby as sometimes getting parts is cost prohibitive as generally the monthly pay cheque is less.Vespas and Lambrettas are big here only because they are a cheap way into classics. Smaller cars such as the early Fiat 500's have now fallen right of the scales with high prices being paid, and most projects now being shipped out of Italy with dealers buying 10-20 at a time. The De Tomaso Mini has also gained some ground in the last year, so if you want a pocket rocket to drive down the middle of your gigantic US shopping malls - do it now.
Ciao for now Al # 1925
p.s. Lego Technics and Top Trumps has alot to answer for. How similar is the Lego Technic Test Car model 8865 released in 1988 to a Pantera - uncanny!!!p.p.s BMW M1 - is this really just a German Pantera?p.p.p.s OK - its morning here, so time to go and clean all my teeth [fillings free], which quite handily all still remain in my head
From: terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
To: coreyjprice at gmail.com; lotus0005 at hotmail.com
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 00:21:12 +0000
CC: detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Documentation of Panteras increased value
Welcome to the forum junior. LOL ;-)) <kidding>
Terry W. Himes
JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Deep Impact Sequence Team Lead
Deep Impact Spacecraft Engineer & Activity Lead
Rosetta/MEX/VEX Sequence Team Lead
Phone: (818) 393-6261
Cell: (818) 653-8213
Fax: (818) 393-3147
thimes at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov>
From: Corey Price <coreyjprice at gmail.com<mailto:coreyjprice at gmail.com>>
Date: Wednesday, March 26, 2014 4:39 PM
To: Bill Lewis <lotus0005 at hotmail.com<mailto:lotus0005 at hotmail.com>>
Cc: De Tomaso List <detomaso at poca.com<mailto:detomaso at poca.com>>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Documentation of Panteras increased value
I'm under 40 and own a Pantera. There are people in my neighborhood that are surprised when I tell them what I have though. Most car guys that are my age like the Pantera.
I went to high school thinking the glory days of horsepower were over; 300 hp was a LOT to me. I had a 5.0 Mustang and loved it. I had big dreams for the car but it wasn't the time.
On Mar 26, 2014, at 4:21 PM, Bill Lewis <lotus0005 at hotmail.com<mailto:lotus0005 at hotmail.com>> wrote:
My question: are people (mainly males) age 40 and under, interested in
vehicles (cars, motorcycles, etc.)? What % of them are going to spend
many hours in the garage working/admiring vehicles like us? Are they
going to have an interest to buy any vehicle of any year model, other
than their daily drivers? ---BILL Lewis
__________________________________________________________________
From: michael at michaelshortt.com<mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2014 18:09:11 -0400
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Documentation of Panteras increased value
To: lashdeep at yahoo.com<mailto:lashdeep at yahoo.com>
CC: dave at damardirect.com<mailto:dave at damardirect.com>; rob at dumoulins.net<mailto:rob at dumoulins.net>; lotus0005 at hotmail.com<mailto:lotus0005 at hotmail.com>;
detomaso at poca.com<mailto:detomaso at poca.com>
At Amelia Island a few weeks ago, I noticed that most of the Cords,
Horst, Stutz and older top of the line cars were owned by the 45-60
set, the dune buggies and muscle cars were owned by really much older
men, I think the difference is becoming those who bought what they
loved and those who buy and enjoy as an investment as much as for
driving.
Michael Shortt
The old dudes were smiling more, that counts for something.
On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 6:02 PM, LS <[1]lashdeep at yahoo.com<mailto:lashdeep at yahoo.com>> wrote:
I'm sure this discussion happened in the 1980s when the crowd
that
loved 1920s and 1930s cars started to pass away.
Yet, those cars are still valuable now.
Bugattis are owned by guys in their 60s, yet they were made long
before
any of them were born.
I have cars that were made before I was born as well.
There is a lot more exposure for old cars in general today than
there
has ever been. The age group that was born after a particular
type of
car was made will have an appreciation for them through FB,
Youtube,
Pinterest, etc.
Who knows what will happen in the next few decades though...
LS
central
wines-spirits est 1934
625 e street nw
washington, dc 20004
[1][2]centralwines.com
[2][3]facebook.com/CentralLiquors
202-737-2800
__________________________________________________________________
From: Dave <[4]dave at damardirect.com<mailto:dave at damardirect.com>>
To: Rob Dumoulin <[5]rob at dumoulins.net<mailto:rob at dumoulins.net>>; Bill Lewis
<[6]lotus0005 at hotmail.com<mailto:lotus0005 at hotmail.com>>
Cc: De Tomaso List <[7]detomaso at poca.com<mailto:detomaso at poca.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2014 3:45 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Documentation of Panteras increased value
How about the cars like a '32 Cadillac16 cyl? Cars that fall in that
caliber, I would think are worrying about who will become the future
caretakers.
IndyDave
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Dumoulin [mailto:[3][8]rob at dumoulins.net]
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 5:42 PM
To: Bill Lewis
Cc: De Tomaso List
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Documentation of Panteras increased value
Response inline
On Mar 25, 2014 12:56 PM, "Bill Lewis" <[4][9]lotus0005 at hotmail.com<mailto:lotus0005 at hotmail.com>>
wrote:
I think about this frequently and have mentioned it on here
before
-
about the "aging & graying" of the American auto enthusiast. I
don't
know if there is anything that can be done about the (seeming)
lack of
interest in vehicles of contemporary male youths. First
question
is,
is that true? Then, if true - why? Then, can it be turned
around?
-----------------------------------------
-------------- -I think that if I were GM, instead of spending
$$$$ on
racing Corvettes, I would produce a 21st century version of the
old TV
"Route 66" series. And, if I were Harley Davidson, I would
churn
out a
bunch of the old motorcycle-gang B movies. I mean, if you want
kids to
smoke, what do you do - you have cool characters in TV/movies
smoke.
I can see Senate hearings to ban sports cars because they represent
what is wrong with youth.
.
---BILL Lewis
From: [5][10]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov>
To: [6][11]scscottc at gmail.com<mailto:scscottc at gmail.com>; [7][12]detomaso at poca.com<mailto:detomaso at poca.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 15:44:38 +0000
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Documentation of Panteras increased
value
I agree. But I think the people who own their Pantera's now
(today)
will alway
s drive them!
I know I go through withdrawal if I go too long without firing up
and
driving my
Pantera.
Our cars will live on, but I think the next generations++ might
not
drive
them a
s much. In 2035 it
would be fun to look down and see a Pantera blowing away electric
cars
on
the hi
ghway. ;-)
Of course availability of gas might be a problem. <heh heh>
Terry W. Himes
JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Deep Impact Sequence Team Lead
Deep Impact Spacecraft Engineer & Activity Lead Rosetta/MEX/VEX
Sequence Team Lead
Phone: (818) 393-6261
Cell: (818) 653-8213
Fax: (818) 393-3147
[8][13]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov><mailto:[9][14]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov>
From: Scott Carpenter
<[10][15]scscottc at gmail.com<mailto:scscottc at gmail.com><mailto:[11][16]scscottc at gmail.com>>
Date: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 7:55 AM
To: De Tomaso List
<[12][17]detomaso at poca.com<mailto:detomaso at poca.com><mailto:[13][18]detomaso at poca.com>>
Subject: [DeTomaso] Documentation of Panteras increased value
I've been with Hagerty since I got my Pantera fourteen years ago.
Originally I had my Pantera on an agreed upon value policy of
$35,000,
last year I bumped it up to $60,000. I've never had to make a
claim
so I guess so far I am happy with them. If values keep going up I
will
probably
look at bumping it up in the next year or two.
As someone who will probably never sell I am torn about the raise
in
values. While I think it is great that the Pantera is finally
given
some recognition for being the great car we all know it is, I
don't
want it to become worth so much that it starts to make people not
want to drive them.
Personally even if my Pantera is worth $50-70K it is still a
viable
risk
to
take for the same nice weekend drives that I usually take it on...
If
it were to drastically go up to say $150K then I might start to
question the sanity of driving it amongst a sea of Pickups, SUVs
and
Minivans where the drivers may or may not be busy texting or
yelling
at the kids in back to see my tiny little Italian hot rod.
Scott
#1523
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References
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2. [26]http://facebook.com/CentralLiquors
3. mailto:[27]rob at dumoulins.net
4. mailto:[28]lotus0005 at hotmail.com
5. mailto:[29]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
6. mailto:[30]scscottc at gmail.com
7. mailto:[31]detomaso at poca.com
8. mailto:[32]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
9. mailto:[33]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
10. mailto:[34]scscottc at gmail.com
11. mailto:[35]scscottc at gmail.com
12. mailto:[36]detomaso at poca.com
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[46]www.michaelshortt.com
[47]michael at michaelshortt.com<mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com>
912-232-9390
This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
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References
1. mailto:lashdeep at yahoo.com
2. http://centralwines.com/
3. http://facebook.com/CentralLiquors
4. mailto:dave at damardirect.com
5. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
6. mailto:lotus0005 at hotmail.com
7. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
8. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
9. mailto:lotus0005 at hotmail.com
10. mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
11. mailto:scscottc at gmail.com
12. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
13. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
14. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
15. mailto:scscottc at gmail.com
16. mailto:scscottc at gmail.com
17. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
18. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
19. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
20. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
21. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
22. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
23. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
24. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
25. http://centralwines.com/
26. http://facebook.com/CentralLiquors
27. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
28. mailto:lotus0005 at hotmail.com
29. mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
30. mailto:scscottc at gmail.com
31. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
32. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
33. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
34. mailto:scscottc at gmail.com
35. mailto:scscottc at gmail.com
36. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
37. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
38. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
39. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
40. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
41. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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43. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
44. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
45. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
46. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
47. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
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-------------- next part --------------
Dear All
I'm under 40 (1975 kid) and have a pantera. I have also been tinkling
with classics for many years.
A factory MGB GT V8 proceeded the Pantera and I still have a series 1
MX5 [miata to most of you] and a Mexico bug to keep me busy along with
the Pantera.
Coming from the UK, there was always a larger group of 'youngsters'
getting involved in classics as particular cars [and tools] are more
accessible and cheaper. Since being here in Italy, the classics are
always grandpa's hobby as sometimes getting parts is cost prohibitive
as generally the monthly pay cheque is less.
Vespas and Lambrettas are big here only because they are a cheap way
into classics.
Smaller cars such as the early Fiat 500's have now fallen right of the
scales with high prices being paid, and most projects now being shipped
out of Italy with dealers buying 10-20 at a time.
The De Tomaso Mini has also gained some ground in the last year, so if
you want a pocket rocket to drive down the middle of your gigantic US
shopping malls - do it now.
Ciao for now
Al # 1925
p.s. Lego Technics and Top Trumps has alot to answer for. How similar
is the Lego Technic Test Car model 8865 released in 1988 to a Pantera -
uncanny!!!
p.p.s BMW M1 - is this really just a German Pantera?
p.p.p.s OK - its morning here, so time to go and clean all my teeth
[fillings free], which quite handily all still remain in my head
From: terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
To: coreyjprice at gmail.com; lotus0005 at hotmail.com
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 00:21:12 +0000
CC: detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Documentation of Panteras increased value
Welcome to the forum junior. LOL ;-)) <kidding>
Terry W. Himes
JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Deep Impact Sequence Team Lead
Deep Impact Spacecraft Engineer & Activity Lead
Rosetta/MEX/VEX Sequence Team Lead
Phone: (818) 393-6261
Cell: (818) 653-8213
Fax: (818) 393-3147
thimes at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov>
From: Corey Price <coreyjprice at gmail.com<mailto:coreyjprice at gmail.com>>
Date: Wednesday, March 26, 2014 4:39 PM
To: Bill Lewis <lotus0005 at hotmail.com<mailto:lotus0005 at hotmail.com>>
Cc: De Tomaso List <detomaso at poca.com<mailto:detomaso at poca.com>>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Documentation of Panteras increased value
I'm under 40 and own a Pantera. There are people in my neighborhood that are sur
prised when I tell them what I have though. Most car guys that are my age like t
he Pantera.
I went to high school thinking the glory days of horsepower were over; 300 hp wa
s a LOT to me. I had a 5.0 Mustang and loved it. I had big dreams for the car bu
t it wasn't the time.
On Mar 26, 2014, at 4:21 PM, Bill Lewis <lotus0005 at hotmail.com<mailto:lotus0005@
hotmail.com>> wrote:
My question: are people (mainly males) age 40 and under, interested in
vehicles (cars, motorcycles, etc.)? What % of them are going to spend
many hours in the garage working/admiring vehicles like us? Are they
going to have an interest to buy any vehicle of any year model, other
than their daily drivers? ---BILL Lewis
__________________________________________________________________
From: michael at michaelshortt.com<mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2014 18:09:11 -0400
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Documentation of Panteras increased value
To: lashdeep at yahoo.com<mailto:lashdeep at yahoo.com>
CC: dave at damardirect.com<mailto:dave at damardirect.com>; rob at dumoulins.net<mail
to:rob at dumoulins.net>; lotus0005 at hotmail.com<mailto:lotus0005 at hotmail.com>;
detomaso at poca.com<mailto:detomaso at poca.com>
At Amelia Island a few weeks ago, I noticed that most of the Cords,
Horst, Stutz and older top of the line cars were owned by the 45-60
set, the dune buggies and muscle cars were owned by really much older
men, I think the difference is becoming those who bought what they
loved and those who buy and enjoy as an investment as much as for
driving.
Michael Shortt
The old dudes were smiling more, that counts for something.
On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 6:02 PM, LS <[1]lashdeep at yahoo.com<mailto:lashdeep at ya
hoo.com>> wrote:
I'm sure this discussion happened in the 1980s when the crowd
that
loved 1920s and 1930s cars started to pass away.
Yet, those cars are still valuable now.
Bugattis are owned by guys in their 60s, yet they were made long
before
any of them were born.
I have cars that were made before I was born as well.
There is a lot more exposure for old cars in general today than
there
has ever been. The age group that was born after a particular
type of
car was made will have an appreciation for them through FB,
Youtube,
Pinterest, etc.
Who knows what will happen in the next few decades though...
LS
central
wines-spirits est 1934
625 e street nw
washington, dc 20004
[1][2]centralwines.com
[2][3]facebook.com/CentralLiquors
202-737-2800
__________________________________________________________________
From: Dave <[4]dave at damardirect.com<mailto:dave at damardirect.com>>
To: Rob Dumoulin <[5]rob at dumoulins.net<mailto:rob at dumoulins.net>>; Bill
Lewis
<[6]lotus0005 at hotmail.com<mailto:lotus0005 at hotmail.com>>
Cc: De Tomaso List <[7]detomaso at poca.com<mailto:detomaso at poca.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2014 3:45 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Documentation of Panteras increased value
How about the cars like a '32 Cadillac16 cyl? Cars that fall in that
caliber, I would think are worrying about who will become the future
caretakers.
IndyDave
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Dumoulin [mailto:[3][8]rob at dumoulins.net]
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 5:42 PM
To: Bill Lewis
Cc: De Tomaso List
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Documentation of Panteras increased value
Response inline
On Mar 25, 2014 12:56 PM, "Bill Lewis" <[4][9]lotus0005 at hotmail.com<mailto
:lotus0005 at hotmail.com>>
wrote:
I think about this frequently and have mentioned it on here
before
-
about the "aging & graying" of the American auto enthusiast. I
don't
know if there is anything that can be done about the (seeming)
lack of
interest in vehicles of contemporary male youths. First
question
is,
is that true? Then, if true - why? Then, can it be turned
around?
-----------------------------------------
-------------- -I think that if I were GM, instead of spending
$$$$ on
racing Corvettes, I would produce a 21st century version of the
old TV
"Route 66" series. And, if I were Harley Davidson, I would
churn
out a
bunch of the old motorcycle-gang B movies. I mean, if you want
kids to
smoke, what do you do - you have cool characters in TV/movies
smoke.
I can see Senate hearings to ban sports cars because they represent
what is wrong with youth.
.
---BILL Lewis
From: [5][10]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov>
To: [6][11]scscottc at gmail.com<mailto:scscottc at gmail.com>; [7][12]detomaso at poc
a.com<mailto:detomaso at poca.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 15:44:38 +0000
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Documentation of Panteras increased
value
I agree. But I think the people who own their Pantera's now
(today)
will alway
s drive them!
I know I go through withdrawal if I go too long without firing up
and
driving my
Pantera.
Our cars will live on, but I think the next generations++ might
not
drive
them a
s much. In 2035 it
would be fun to look down and see a Pantera blowing away electric
cars
on
the hi
ghway. ;-)
Of course availability of gas might be a problem. <heh heh>
Terry W. Himes
JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Deep Impact Sequence Team Lead
Deep Impact Spacecraft Engineer & Activity Lead Rosetta/MEX/VEX
Sequence Team Lead
Phone: (818) 393-6261
Cell: (818) 653-8213
Fax: (818) 393-3147
[8][13]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov><mailto:[9][14]thimes at jpl.
nasa.gov>
From: Scott Carpenter
<[10][15]scscottc at gmail.com<mailto:scscottc at gmail.com><mailto:[11][16]sc
scottc at gmail.com>>
Date: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 7:55 AM
To: De Tomaso List
<[12][17]detomaso at poca.com<mailto:detomaso at poca.com><mailto:[13][18]deto
maso at poca.com>>
Subject: [DeTomaso] Documentation of Panteras increased value
I've been with Hagerty since I got my Pantera fourteen years ago.
Originally I had my Pantera on an agreed upon value policy of
$35,000,
last year I bumped it up to $60,000. I've never had to make a
claim
so I guess so far I am happy with them. If values keep going up I
will
probably
look at bumping it up in the next year or two.
As someone who will probably never sell I am torn about the raise
in
values. While I think it is great that the Pantera is finally
given
some recognition for being the great car we all know it is, I
don't
want it to become worth so much that it starts to make people not
want to drive them.
Personally even if my Pantera is worth $50-70K it is still a
viable
risk
to
take for the same nice weekend drives that I usually take it on...
If
it were to drastically go up to say $150K then I might start to
question the sanity of driving it amongst a sea of Pickups, SUVs
and
Minivans where the drivers may or may not be busy texting or
yelling
at the kids in back to see my tiny little Italian hot rod.
Scott
#1523
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References
1. [25][4]http://centralwines.com/
2. [26][5]http://facebook.com/CentralLiquors
3. mailto:[27]rob at dumoulins.net
4. mailto:[28]lotus0005 at hotmail.com
5. mailto:[29]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
6. mailto:[30]scscottc at gmail.com
7. mailto:[31]detomaso at poca.com
8. mailto:[32]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
9. mailto:[33]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
10. mailto:[34]scscottc at gmail.com
11. mailto:[35]scscottc at gmail.com
12. mailto:[36]detomaso at poca.com
13. mailto:[37]detomaso at poca.com
14. mailto:[38]DeTomaso at poca.com
15. [39][6]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
16. mailto:[40]DeTomaso at poca.com
17. [41][7]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
18. mailto:[42]DeTomaso at poca.com
19. [43][8]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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Savannah, Georgia
[46]www.michaelshortt.com
[47]michael at michaelshortt.com<mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com>
912-232-9390
This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
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References
1. mailto:lashdeep at yahoo.com
2. [10]http://centralwines.com/
3. [11]http://facebook.com/CentralLiquors
4. mailto:dave at damardirect.com
5. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
6. mailto:lotus0005 at hotmail.com
7. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
8. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
9. mailto:lotus0005 at hotmail.com
10. mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
11. mailto:scscottc at gmail.com
12. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
13. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
14. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
15. mailto:scscottc at gmail.com
16. mailto:scscottc at gmail.com
17. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
18. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
19. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
20. [12]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
21. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
22. [13]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
23. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
24. [14]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
25. [15]http://centralwines.com/
26. [16]http://facebook.com/CentralLiquors
27. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
28. mailto:lotus0005 at hotmail.com
29. mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
30. mailto:scscottc at gmail.com
31. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
32. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
33. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
34. mailto:scscottc at gmail.com
35. mailto:scscottc at gmail.com
36. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
37. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
38. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
39. [17]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
40. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
41. [18]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
42. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
43. [19]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
44. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
45. [20]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
46. [21]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
47. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
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References
1. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
2. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
3. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
4. http://centralwines.com/
5. http://facebook.com/CentralLiquors
6. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
7. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
8. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
9. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
10. http://centralwines.com/
11. http://facebook.com/CentralLiquors
12. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
13. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
14. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
15. http://centralwines.com/
16. http://facebook.com/CentralLiquors
17. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
18. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
19. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
20. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
21. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
22. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
23. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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