[DeTomaso] CLUTCH MASTERS
Boyd Casey
boyd411 at gmail.com
Thu Apr 17 11:09:52 EDT 2014
My car is a 1973 L # 5783 and it does not have welded nuts so I believe it
was probably done on Asa's car by a previous owner. I own a pressure
bleeder and although I have used it on my brakes I have not tried it on the
clutch master . I didn't have the necessary attachment to use it on the
clutch master and the speed bleeder is less expensive then the power
bleeder attachment and works so well I didn't see the benefit in using the
power bleeder ,( which can be messy and requires a substantial amount of
hydraulic fluid ( 1 quart plus of which the majority is wasted.) The power
bleeder needs over a quart to work and the master only uses a few ounces
and all the extra fluid needed to use the power bleeder needs to be
disposed of after you bleed the system. I suppose if you had a shop where
you bleed brakes and clutches everyday it might make economical sense ( if
all the cars you did used the same brake fluid) but for me a SS speed
bleeder is a superior choice. A SS speed bleeder costs around $15 and
with a plastic tube and catch bottle it doesn't make any type of mess . If
you have speed bleeders installed you can bleed your clutch or brakes
anywhere, and by yourself , in just a few minutes with no other tools
other then the appropriate bleed screw wrench and a bottle of brake fluid.
If you believe in the concept of "keep it simple" it doesn't get much
simpler then this!
I have to give credit to Bob Levitt ( President of the Long Island POCA
group and known for his participation in the "Gumball" event) who turned
me on to the use of speed bleeders.
Boyd
On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Charles McCall <charlesmccall at gmail.com>wrote:
> I agree with Will - you could limp along just fine. I lost a clutch slave
> cylinder on the first day of a 3-day supercar event 2 years ago. I spent
> the
> whole weekend driving without the clutch. It wasn't quick driving like
> that,
> nor was it a lot of fun but it could be done. The worst was coming to a
> stoplight :-(
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Will
> Kooiman
> Sent: jueves, 17 de abril de 2014 15:55
> To: Asa Jay Laughton
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] CLUTCH MASTERS
>
> I would not attempt a clutch master swap on the road. It is generally easy
> enough to drive without a clutch.
>
> I once lost the clutch in my 68 mustang. I drove 200 miles without it. I
> think the synchros are better in a top loader, but I would hope I could
> shift a ZF clutch less.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Apr 17, 2014, at 9:42 AM, Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Chuck,
> >
> > My Pantera is THPNNP05533. It's been a few years since I was under the
> > dash, but a I recall it looked like a home job of welding. But then
> > again, factory welding might look the same. However; I would think if
> > it had been a factory job, more folks would have noticed in their cars.
> >
> > I've been busy of late and was hoping to locate the O2 sensor this
> > weekend, pull the exhaust on that side and have my friend drill for the
> > bung and weld in the bung and then I could begin testing. I also picked
> > up some tools that might help me look at ignition pulses; I have to get
> > in the garage and test that too.
> >
> > This weekend was supposed to be free enough to begin all that but I
> > think things are already piling in that are non-car related. <sigh>
> >
> > Asa Jay
> >
> > Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
> > & Shelley Marie
> > Spokane, WA
> > ******************************
> > http://www.racingagainstautism.com
> > http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> > http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
> >
> >
> >> On 4/17/2014 5:35 AM, cengles at cox.net wrote:
> >> Dear Asa,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hmmm. You have an L model Pantera. What is the
> >> VIN? I wonder if that is an Italian assembly line spontaneous
> >> variation, a standard feature of the late model Pantera L or the
> >> aftermath of a previous job. My Panteras are 7000 series VINs and I
> >> hope that they have the welding.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> PS: how is the Innovate field testing going?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 10:21 PM, Asa Jay Laughton wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I believe on mine, when I went to install the wrench under the dash I
> >>> found the nuts welded. One man job from the outside.
> >>>
> >>> Asa Jay
> >>>
> >>> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
> >>> & Shelley Marie
> >>> Spokane, WA
> >>> ******************************
> >>> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
> >>> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> >>> http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On 4/16/2014 7:32 PM, Charles Engles wrote:
> >>>> Dear Boyd,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I do understand that it is a very unpleasant job. I
> >> do have a Pantera reference from Scandanavia, IIRC, which shows a
> >> modification that uses a hole saw to cut an access hole in the
> >> passenger side of the box about three inches in diameter. From what I
> >> understand, it permits sight and access to the dreaded inaccessible
> >> dark recess behind the dash. I have not done this job nor have I
> >> done this mod, but from what I think I know, it could make the task a
> >> darn sight easier. The original author reported that once the hole
> >> is made and used and the job is done, then it can be plugged,
> >> tastefully, with a common commercially available plastic plug.
> >> Perhaps someone has first hand experience with this trick?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Clutch master cylinder rookie, Chuck Engles
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of
> >> Boyd Casey
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 9:18 PM
> >>>> To: mike Drew
> >>>> Cc: detomaso at poca.com; Bob Benson
> >>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] CLUTCH MASTERS
> >>>>
> >>>> Changing a slave is no big deal , but I don't know how I would
> >> change a clutch master on the side of the road, it's a two person job
> >> ( one to hold a wrench under the dash and one the install the master)
> >> and even then unless you have a dwarf with you getting under the dash
> >> and attaching the push rod and getting access to the bolts is a
> >> nightmare. If there is some "Trick" to installing the clutch master I
> >> wish someone would share it with me!
> >>>> Boyd
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 7:49 PM, <MikeLDrew at aol.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In a message dated 4/16/14 15 49 50, rcbsons1 at aol.com writes:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> New Pantera protocol is to carry a spare
> >>>>> Clutch master and slave.. that is what I am
> >>>>> doing now.. I have one of Rich's square ones
> >>>>> because original makes no difference to me...
> >>>>> need to remember to pack some brake fluid also
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> If, as he says, they need to be modified to fit, better
> >> modify it
> >>>>> now rather than when you're stuck on the side of the road! :>)
> >>>>> Mike
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >>>>>
> >>>>> DeTomaso mailing list
> >>>>> DeTomaso at poca.com
> >>>>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>
> >>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >>>>
> >>>> DeTomaso mailing list
> >>>> DeTomaso at poca.com
> >>>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----
> >>>> No virus found in this message.
> >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >>>> Version: 10.0.1432 / Virus Database: 3722/6852 - Release Date:
> >> 04/16/14
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>>
> >>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >>>
> >>> DeTomaso mailing list
> >>> DeTomaso at poca.com
> >>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> No virus found in this message.
> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
> >> Version: 10.0.1432 / Virus Database: 3722/6852 - Release Date: 04/16/14
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at poca.com
> > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
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>
> DeTomaso mailing list
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> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
-------------- next part --------------
My car is a 1973 L # 5783 and it does not have welded nuts so I believe
it was probably done on Asa's car by a previous owner. I own a pressure
bleeder and although I have used it on my brakes I have not tried it on
the clutch master . I didn't have the necessary attachment to use it on
the clutch master and the speed bleeder is less expensive then the
power bleeder attachment and works so well I didn't see the benefit in
using the power bleeder ,( which can be messy and requires a
substantial amount of hydraulic fluid ( 1 quart plus A of which the
majority is wasted.) The power bleeder needs over a quart to work and
the master only uses a few ounces and all the extra fluid needed to use
the power bleeder A needs to be disposed of after you bleed the system.
I suppose if you had a shop where you bleed brakes and clutches
everyday it might make economical sense ( if all the cars you did used
the same brake fluid) but for me a SS speed bleeder A is a superior
choice. A SS speed bleeder costs around A $15 and with a plastic tube
and catch bottle it A doesn't make any type of mess . If you have speed
bleeders installed you can bleed your clutch or brakes anywhere, and by
yourself , in just a few minutes A with no other tools other then the
appropriate bleed screw wrench and a bottle of brake fluid. If you
believe in the concept of "keep it simple" it doesn't get much simpler
then this!
I have to give credit to Bob Levitt ( President of the Long Island POCA
group and known for his participation A in the "Gumball" event) who
turned me on to the use of speed bleeders.
Boyd
On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Charles McCall
<[1]charlesmccall at gmail.com> wrote:
I agree with Will - you could limp along just fine. I lost a clutch
slave
cylinder on the first day of a 3-day supercar event 2 years ago. I
spent the
whole weekend driving without the clutch. It wasn't quick driving
like that,
nor was it a lot of fun but it could be done. The worst was coming
to a
stoplight :-(
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [mailto:[2]detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Will
Kooiman
Sent: jueves, 17 de abril de 2014 15:55
To: Asa Jay Laughton
Cc: [3]detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] CLUTCH MASTERS
I would not attempt a clutch master swap on the road. A It is generally
easy
enough to drive without a clutch.
I once lost the clutch in my 68 mustang. A I drove 200 miles without
it. A I
think the synchros are better in a top loader, but I would hope I could
shift a ZF clutch less.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Apr 17, 2014, at 9:42 AM, Asa Jay Laughton <[4]asajay at asajay.com>
wrote:
>
> Hi Chuck,
>
> My Pantera is THPNNP05533. A It's been a few years since I was under
the
> dash, but a I recall it looked like a home job of welding. A But then
> again, factory welding might look the same. A However; I would think
if
> it had been a factory job, more folks would have noticed in their
cars.
>
> I've been busy of late and was hoping to locate the O2 sensor this
> weekend, pull the exhaust on that side and have my friend drill for
the
> bung and weld in the bung and then I could begin testing. A I also
picked
> up some tools that might help me look at ignition pulses; I have to
get
> in the garage and test that too.
>
> This weekend was supposed to be free enough to begin all that but I
> think things are already piling in that are non-car related. A <sigh>
>
> Asa A Jay
>
> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
> & Shelley Marie
> Spokane, WA
> ******************************
> [5]http://www.racingagainstautism.com
> [6]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> [7]http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
>
>
>> On 4/17/2014 5:35 AM, [8]cengles at cox.net wrote:
>> Dear Asa,
>>
>>
>>
>> A A A A A A A A Hmmm. A You have an L model Pantera. A What
is the
>> VIN? A I wonder if that is an Italian assembly line spontaneous
>> variation, a standard feature of the late model Pantera L or the
>> aftermath of a previous job. A My Panteras are 7000 series VINs and
I
>> hope that they have the welding.
>>
>>
>>
>> A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A Warmest regards,
A Chuck Engles
>>
>>
>>
>> PS: how is the Innovate field testing going?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 10:21 PM, Asa Jay Laughton wrote:
>>>
>>> I believe on mine, when I went to install the wrench under the dash
I
>>> found the nuts welded. A One man job from the outside.
>>>
>>> Asa A Jay
>>>
>>> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>>> & Shelley Marie
>>> Spokane, WA
>>> ******************************
>>> [9]http://www.racingagainstautism.com
>>> [10]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
>>> [11]http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 4/16/2014 7:32 PM, Charles Engles wrote:
>>>> Dear Boyd,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A A A A A A I do understand that it is a very unpleasant
job. A I
>> do have a Pantera reference from Scandanavia, IIRC, which shows a
>> modification that uses a hole saw to cut an access hole in the
>> passenger side of the box about three inches in diameter. A From
what I
>> understand, it permits sight and access to the dreaded inaccessible
>> dark recess behind the dash. A I have not done this job nor have I
>> done this mod, but from what I think I know, it could make the task
a
>> darn sight easier. A The original author reported that once the
hole
>> is made and used and the job is done, then it can be plugged,
>> tastefully, with a common commercially available plastic plug.
>> Perhaps someone has first hand experience with this trick?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A A A A A A A A A A A Clutch master cylinder rookie,
A Chuck Engles
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: DeTomaso [mailto:[12]detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of
>> Boyd Casey
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 9:18 PM
>>>> To: mike Drew
>>>> Cc: [13]detomaso at poca.com; Bob Benson
>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] CLUTCH MASTERS
>>>>
>>>> Changing a slave is no big deal , but I don't know how I would
>> change a clutch master on the side of the road, it's a two person
job
>> ( one to hold a wrench under the dash and one the install the
master)
>> and even then unless you have A a dwarf with you getting under the
dash
>> and attaching the push rod and getting access to the bolts is a
>> nightmare. If there is some "Trick" to installing the clutch master
I
>> wish someone would share it with me!
>>>> Boyd
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 7:49 PM, <[14]MikeLDrew at aol.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> A In a message dated 4/16/14 15 49 50, [15]rcbsons1 at aol.com
writes:
>>>>>
>>>>> A A New Pantera protocol is to carry a spare
>>>>> A A Clutch master and slave.. that is what I am
>>>>> A A doing now.. A I have one of Rich's square ones
>>>>> A A because original makes no difference to me...
>>>>> A A need to remember to pack some brake fluid also
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If, as he says, they need to be modified to fit, better
>> modify it
>>>>> A now rather than when you're stuck on the side of the road! :>)
>>>>> A Mike
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>>>
>>>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>>>> [16]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>>>> [17]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>>
>>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> [18]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>>> [19]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----
>>>> No virus found in this message.
>>>> Checked by AVG - [20]www.avg.com
>>>> Version: 10.0.1432 / Virus Database: 3722/6852 - Release Date:
>> 04/16/14
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> [21]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>> [22]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>>
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - [23]www.avg.com <[24]http://www.avg.com>
>> Version: 10.0.1432 / Virus Database: 3722/6852 - Release Date:
04/16/14
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [25]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [26]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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DeTomaso mailing list
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[28]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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DeTomaso mailing list
[29]DeTomaso at poca.com
[30]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
References
1. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
2. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
3. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
4. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
5. http://www.racingagainstautism.com/
6. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
7. http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
8. mailto:cengles at cox.net
9. http://www.racingagainstautism.com/
10. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
11. http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
12. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
13. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
14. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
15. mailto:rcbsons1 at aol.com
16. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
17. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
18. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
19. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
20. http://www.avg.com/
21. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
22. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
23. http://www.avg.com/
24. http://www.avg.com/
25. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
26. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
27. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
28. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
29. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
30. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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