[DeTomaso] ZF gear oil
Don Thomas
don.thomas.ieee at gmail.com
Sat Apr 12 16:46:28 EDT 2014
* "And there is no "yellow metal" in our ZF:s, right?"*
Well... actually there is... in the shifting linkage which has brass
bushings... I just recently had Lloyd replace those.
The brass bushings are not listed in the standard over the counter ZF
repair manual / parts catalog.
To add my 2 cents... I use GL-4 Amsoil. I still have 3 gallons of that
stuff. Never had any problems.
Cheers !
On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Pantdino <pantdino at aol.com> wrote:
> Thomas,
>
>
>
> "And there is no "yellow metal" in our ZF:s, right?"
>
>
>
> I think that is not correct. "Yellow metal" refers to brass, which is
> what synchros are made of or at least what they were made of back in
> the day.
>
>
>
> I read somewhere that GL5 oils coat the metal better than GL4s, but the
> problem is that the coating is so adherent that when it comes off it
> can tear off a few molecules of the metal. Over time this can result in
> gear wear.
>
>
>
> My Abarth guru recommends Red Line MT-90 for my Fiat transaxle. It is
> a 75W90 GL4 oil that is recommended for gearboxes and FRONT-WHEEL DRIVE
> transaxles but not rear wheel drive diffs.
>
>
>
> Unfortunately I don't know enough about transaxles to know why GL4 oil
> is best for a Fiat transaxle but wouldn't be good for a ZF or Ferrari
> unit. Or maybe it would be??
>
>
>
> Jim Oddie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Thomas Tornblom <thomas at hax.se>
> To: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
> Sent: Fri, Apr 11, 2014 11:44 pm
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] ZF gear oil
> Pantdino skrev 2014-04-12 08:14:
> > I think Mike misspoke / miswrote
> >
> >
> >
> > Most gear oil is GL5 and it is GL4 that is hard to find
> >
> >
> >
> > But the best oil for the ZF is Red Line 75W90NS--- the NS signifying
> > "not so slippery" I presume.
> >
> > ANY oil that says it is OK to use in a limited slip diff will be TOO
> > slippery for proper synchro function and will predispose to early
> > synchro wear.
> >
> >
> >
> > GL4 oil is better for "yellow metal" gears but this is a fairly minor
> > consideration in comparison to better lubrication for the diff
> portion
> > of the ZF provided by the GL5 Red Line 75W90NS
>
> And there is no "yellow metal" in our ZF:s, right? So GL5 would be
> appropriate, just as the owners manual says.
>
> That said, I have always used Shell GetriebeAP:l, which is a fully
> synthetic GL4, but will now switch to some GL5. Might even try this RL
> oil. :)
>
> Thomas
>
> >
> >
> >
> > At least this was the conclusion reached by the ferrarichat group for
> > use in "brand F" transaxles.
> >
> >
> >
> > Jim Oddie
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Corey Price <[1]coreyjprice at gmail.com>
> > To: MikeLDrew <[2]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> > Cc: De Tomaso List <[3]detomaso at poca.com>
> > Sent: Fri, Apr 11, 2014 9:03 pm
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] ZF gear oil
> > Mike,
> >
> > I thought GL-4 was the recommended oil, per Lloyd's website "FAQ"
> section.
> Did
> > I miss something?
> >
> > Corey
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Apr 11, 2014, at 9:41 PM, [1][4]MikeLDrew at aol.com wrote:
> >>
> >> In a message dated 4/11/14 12 32 13, [2][5]cwhamm at frontier.comwrites:
> >>
> >> Also what is the best gear oil for
> >> my ZF transaxle?
> >>
> >>>>> This is a very important question. I think there is a tendancy
> >> among many people to just grab any old gear oil and throw it in
> there,
> >> but the nature of a transaxle demands that one pays very close
> >> attention to the manufacturer's recommendations. All gear oils are
> NOT
> >> created equal!
> >> In this case, the first thing to do is RTFM.
> >> The manual specifically calls for SAE 80, AP GL5
> >> (SAE 90 in Europe).
> >> 7 1/2 pints of the stuff.
> >> While it is very easy to find SAE 80-90 gear oil, it is surprisingly
> >> difficult to find *GL5* gear oil, and that's the important part. GL5
> >> oil has specific characteristics designed to work with the types of
> >> synchros that our gearboxes have, which are different from most other
> >> gearboxes, and definitely different from a typical differential/rear
> >> axle.
> >> If you go to most auto parts stores, there will be lots of gear oil
> on
> >> the shelf but none of it will be GL5. The only place I have reliably
> >> found GL5 is NAPA auto parts; it is made by Sta-Lube/CRC.
> >> Here is the exact link to what you should buy:
> >> [3][6]http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL2473
> >> It is normally sold in pints or gallons; since you need 7.5 pints and
> >> there are 8 pints in a gallon, obviously it is to your advantage to
> buy
> >> a gallon jug. My local NAPA store used to carry them, but I just had
> >> to order a jug a couple of weeks ago as they only have pints now.
> >> While you're at it, you might as well buy a gear oil pump, also by
> >> Sta-Lube:
> >> [4][7]http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL4344
> >> Harbor Freight has a better picture of it:
> >> [5][8]
> http://www.harborfreight.com/sta-lube-gear-fluid-oil-pump-40714.html
> >> Using this pump has transformed my life. Normally filling a ZF
> gearbox
> >> is a painful experience involving a lot of spilled gear oil and
> >> profanity. This turns it into a breeze. Just put the end of the
> hose
> >> in the side of the gearbox (where it's cleverly retained), and start
> >> pumping until you feel silly. When oil starts drooling out the side,
> >> you're done. Let it sit for a few minutes, give a few more pumps
> just
> >> to be sure, then you're really done.
> >> Mike (going to change my gearbox oil tomorrow as a matter of
> fact....)
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >>
> >> DeTomaso mailing list
> >> [6][9]DeTomaso at poca.com
> >> [7][10]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > [8][11]DeTomaso at poca.com
> > [9][12]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >
> > References
> >
> > 1. [13]mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
> > 2. [14]mailto:cwhamm at frontier.com
> > 3. [15]http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL2473
> > 4. [16]http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL4344
> > 5. [17]
> http://www.harborfreight.com/sta-lube-gear-fluid-oil-pump-40714.htm
> l
> > 6. [18]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> > 7. [19]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> > 8. [20]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> > 9. [21]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >
> >
> > !DSPAM:5348d9dc3863307228636!
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > [22]DeTomaso at poca.com
> > [23]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >
> >
> > !DSPAM:5348d9dc3863307228636!
> >
>
>
> --
> Real life: Thomas TAP:rnblom Email: [24]thomas at hax.se
> Snail mail: BanvallsvACURgen 14 Phone: +46 18 32 31 18
> S - 754 40 Uppsala, Sweden Cellular: +46 76 209 8320
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [25]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [26]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:coreyjprice at gmail.com
> 2. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
> 3. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 4. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
> 5. mailto:cwhamm at frontier.com
> 6. http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL2473
> 7. http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL4344
> 8. http://www.harborfreight.com/sta-lube-gear-fluid-oil-pump-40714.html
> 9. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 10. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 11. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 12. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 13. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com?
> 14. mailto:cwhamm at frontier.com?
> 15. http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL2473
> 16. http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL4344
> 17. http://www.harborfreight.com/sta-lube-gear-fluid-oil-pump-40714.html
> 18. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com?
> 19. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 20. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com?
> 21. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 22. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 23. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 24. mailto:thomas at hax.se
> 25. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 26. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
"And there is no "yellow metal" in our ZF:s, right?"
Well... actually there is... in the shifting linkage which has brass
bushings... I just recently had Lloyd replace those.
The brass bushings are not listed in the standard over the counter ZF
repair manual / parts catalog.
To add my 2 cents... I use GL-4 Amsoil. I still have 3 gallons of that
stuff. Never had any problems.
Cheers !
On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Pantdino <[1]pantdino at aol.com> wrote:
Thomas,
"And there is no "yellow metal" in our ZF:s, right?"
I think that is not correct. "Yellow metal" refers to brass,
which is
what synchros are made of or at least what they were made of back
in
the day.
I read somewhere that GL5 oils coat the metal better than GL4s,
but the
problem is that the coating is so adherent that when it comes off
it
can tear off a few molecules of the metal. Over time this can
result in
gear wear.
My Abarth guru recommends Red Line MT-90 for my Fiat transaxle.
It is
a 75W90 GL4 oil that is recommended for gearboxes and FRONT-WHEEL
DRIVE
transaxles but not rear wheel drive diffs.
Unfortunately I don't know enough about transaxles to know why
GL4 oil
is best for a Fiat transaxle but wouldn't be good for a ZF or
Ferrari
unit. Or maybe it would be??
Jim Oddie
-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Tornblom <[2]thomas at hax.se>
To: detomaso <[3]detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Fri, Apr 11, 2014 11:44 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] ZF gear oil
Pantdino skrev 2014-04-12 08:14:
> I think Mike misspoke / miswrote
>
>
>
> Most gear oil is GL5 and it is GL4 that is hard to find
>
>
>
> But the best oil for the ZF is Red Line 75W90NS--- the NS
signifying
> "not so slippery" I presume.
>
> ANY oil that says it is OK to use in a limited slip diff will be
TOO
> slippery for proper synchro function and will predispose to early
> synchro wear.
>
>
>
> GL4 oil is better for "yellow metal" gears but this is a fairly
minor
> consideration in comparison to better lubrication for the diff
portion
> of the ZF provided by the GL5 Red Line 75W90NS
And there is no "yellow metal" in our ZF:s, right? So GL5 would be
appropriate, just as the owners manual says.
That said, I have always used Shell GetriebeAP:l, which is a fully
synthetic GL4, but will now switch to some GL5. Might even try this RL
oil. :)
Thomas
>
>
>
> At least this was the conclusion reached by the ferrarichat group
for
> use in "brand F" transaxles.
>
>
>
> Jim Oddie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Corey Price <[1][4]coreyjprice at gmail.com>
> To: MikeLDrew <[2][5]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> Cc: De Tomaso List <[3][6]detomaso at poca.com>
> Sent: Fri, Apr 11, 2014 9:03 pm
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] ZF gear oil
> Mike,
>
> I thought GL-4 was the recommended oil, per Lloyd's website "FAQ"
section.
Did
> I miss something?
>
> Corey
>
>
>
>> On Apr 11, 2014, at 9:41 PM, [1][4][7]MikeLDrew at aol.com wrote:
>>
>> In a message dated 4/11/14 12 32 13, [2][5][8]cwhamm at frontier.com
writes:
>>
>> Also what is the best gear oil for
>> my ZF transaxle?
>>
>>>>> This is a very important question. I think there is a tendancy
>> among many people to just grab any old gear oil and throw it in
there,
>> but the nature of a transaxle demands that one pays very close
>> attention to the manufacturer's recommendations. All gear oils
are NOT
>> created equal!
>> In this case, the first thing to do is RTFM.
>> The manual specifically calls for SAE 80, AP GL5
>> (SAE 90 in Europe).
>> 7 1/2 pints of the stuff.
>> While it is very easy to find SAE 80-90 gear oil, it is
surprisingly
>> difficult to find *GL5* gear oil, and that's the important part.
GL5
>> oil has specific characteristics designed to work with the types
of
>> synchros that our gearboxes have, which are different from most
other
>> gearboxes, and definitely different from a typical
differential/rear
>> axle.
>> If you go to most auto parts stores, there will be lots of gear
oil on
>> the shelf but none of it will be GL5. The only place I have
reliably
>> found GL5 is NAPA auto parts; it is made by Sta-Lube/CRC.
>> Here is the exact link to what you should buy:
>>
[3][6][9]http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL24
73
>> It is normally sold in pints or gallons; since you need 7.5 pints
and
>> there are 8 pints in a gallon, obviously it is to your advantage
to buy
>> a gallon jug. My local NAPA store used to carry them, but I just
had
>> to order a jug a couple of weeks ago as they only have pints now.
>> While you're at it, you might as well buy a gear oil pump, also
by
>> Sta-Lube:
>>
[4][7][10]http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL4
344
>> Harbor Freight has a better picture of it:
>>
[5][8][11]http://www.harborfreight.com/sta-lube-gear-fluid-oil-pump-
40714.html
>> Using this pump has transformed my life. Normally filling a ZF
gearbox
>> is a painful experience involving a lot of spilled gear oil and
>> profanity. This turns it into a breeze. Just put the end of the
hose
>> in the side of the gearbox (where it's cleverly retained), and
start
>> pumping until you feel silly. When oil starts drooling out the
side,
>> you're done. Let it sit for a few minutes, give a few more pumps
just
>> to be sure, then you're really done.
>> Mike (going to change my gearbox oil tomorrow as a matter of
fact....)
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> [6][9][12]DeTomaso at poca.com
>> [7][10][13]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [8][11][14]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [9][12][15]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> References
>
> 1. [13]mailto:[16]MikeLDrew at aol.com
> 2. [14]mailto:[17]cwhamm at frontier.com
> 3.
[15][18]http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL247
3
> 4.
[16][19]http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL434
4
> 5.
[17][20]http://www.harborfreight.com/sta-lube-gear-fluid-oil-pump-40
714.htm
l
> 6. [18]mailto:[21]DeTomaso at poca.com
> 7. [19][22]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 8. [20]mailto:[23]DeTomaso at poca.com
> 9. [21][24]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
> !DSPAM:5348d9dc3863307228636!
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [22][25]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [23][26]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
> !DSPAM:5348d9dc3863307228636!
>
--
Real life: Thomas TAP:rnblom Email:
[24][27]thomas at hax.se
Snail mail: BanvallsvACURgen 14 Phone: [28]+46 18 32
31 18
S - 754 40 Uppsala, Sweden Cellular: [29]+46 76 209 8320
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
DeTomaso mailing list
[25][30]DeTomaso at poca.com
[26][31]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
References
1. mailto:[32]coreyjprice at gmail.com
2. mailto:[33]MikeLDrew at aol.com
3. mailto:[34]detomaso at poca.com
4. mailto:[35]MikeLDrew at aol.com
5. mailto:[36]cwhamm at frontier.com
6.
[37]http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL2473
7.
[38]http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL4344
8.
[39]http://www.harborfreight.com/sta-lube-gear-fluid-oil-pump-40714.
html
9. mailto:[40]DeTomaso at poca.com
10. [41]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
11. mailto:[42]DeTomaso at poca.com
12. [43]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
13. mailto:[44]MikeLDrew at aol.com?
14. mailto:[45]cwhamm at frontier.com?
15.
[46]http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL2473
16.
[47]http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL4344
17.
[48]http://www.harborfreight.com/sta-lube-gear-fluid-oil-pump-40714.
html
18. mailto:[49]DeTomaso at poca.com?
19. [50]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
20. mailto:[51]DeTomaso at poca.com?
21. [52]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
22. mailto:[53]DeTomaso at poca.com
23. [54]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
24. mailto:[55]thomas at hax.se
25. mailto:[56]DeTomaso at poca.com
26. [57]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
_______________________________________________
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References
1. mailto:pantdino at aol.com
2. mailto:thomas at hax.se
3. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
4. mailto:coreyjprice at gmail.com
5. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
6. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
7. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
8. mailto:cwhamm at frontier.com
9. http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL2473
10. http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL4344
11. http://www.harborfreight.com/sta-lube-gear-fluid-oil-pump-40714.html
12. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
13. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
14. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
15. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
16. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
17. mailto:cwhamm at frontier.com
18. http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL2473
19. http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL4344
20. http://www.harborfreight.com/sta-lube-gear-fluid-oil-pump-40714.htm
21. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
22. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
23. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
24. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
25. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
26. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
27. mailto:thomas at hax.se
28. tel:%2B46%2018%2032%2031%2018
29. tel:%2B46%2076%20209%208320
30. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
31. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
32. mailto:coreyjprice at gmail.com
33. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
34. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
35. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
36. mailto:cwhamm at frontier.com
37. http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL2473
38. http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL4344
39. http://www.harborfreight.com/sta-lube-gear-fluid-oil-pump-40714.html
40. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
41. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
42. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
43. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
44. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
45. mailto:cwhamm at frontier.com
46. http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL2473
47. http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL4344
48. http://www.harborfreight.com/sta-lube-gear-fluid-oil-pump-40714.html
49. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
50. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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