[DeTomaso] ZF gear oil
Pantdino
pantdino at aol.com
Sat Apr 12 13:12:58 EDT 2014
Thomas,
"And there is no "yellow metal" in our ZF:s, right?"
I think that is not correct. "Yellow metal" refers to brass, which is what synchros are made of or at least what they were made of back in the day.
I read somewhere that GL5 oils coat the metal better than GL4s, but the problem is that the coating is so adherent that when it comes off it can tear off a few molecules of the metal. Over time this can result in gear wear.
My Abarth guru recommends Red Line MT-90 for my Fiat transaxle. It is a 75W90 GL4 oil that is recommended for gearboxes and FRONT-WHEEL DRIVE transaxles but not rear wheel drive diffs.
Unfortunately I don't know enough about transaxles to know why GL4 oil is best for a Fiat transaxle but wouldn't be good for a ZF or Ferrari unit. Or maybe it would be??
Jim Oddie
-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Tornblom <thomas at hax.se>
To: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Fri, Apr 11, 2014 11:44 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] ZF gear oil
Pantdino skrev 2014-04-12 08:14:
> I think Mike misspoke / miswrote
>
>
>
> Most gear oil is GL5 and it is GL4 that is hard to find
>
>
>
> But the best oil for the ZF is Red Line 75W90NS--- the NS signifying
> "not so slippery" I presume.
>
> ANY oil that says it is OK to use in a limited slip diff will be TOO
> slippery for proper synchro function and will predispose to early
> synchro wear.
>
>
>
> GL4 oil is better for "yellow metal" gears but this is a fairly minor
> consideration in comparison to better lubrication for the diff portion
> of the ZF provided by the GL5 Red Line 75W90NS
And there is no "yellow metal" in our ZF:s, right? So GL5 would be
appropriate, just as the owners manual says.
That said, I have always used Shell Getriebeöl, which is a fully
synthetic GL4, but will now switch to some GL5. Might even try this RL
oil. :)
Thomas
>
>
>
> At least this was the conclusion reached by the ferrarichat group for
> use in "brand F" transaxles.
>
>
>
> Jim Oddie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Corey Price <coreyjprice at gmail.com>
> To: MikeLDrew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> Cc: De Tomaso List <detomaso at poca.com>
> Sent: Fri, Apr 11, 2014 9:03 pm
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] ZF gear oil
> Mike,
>
> I thought GL-4 was the recommended oil, per Lloyd's website "FAQ" section.
Did
> I miss something?
>
> Corey
>
>
>
>> On Apr 11, 2014, at 9:41 PM, [1]MikeLDrew at aol.com wrote:
>>
>> In a message dated 4/11/14 12 32 13, [2]cwhamm at frontier.com writes:
>>
>> Also what is the best gear oil for
>> my ZF transaxle?
>>
>>>>> This is a very important question. I think there is a tendancy
>> among many people to just grab any old gear oil and throw it in there,
>> but the nature of a transaxle demands that one pays very close
>> attention to the manufacturer's recommendations. All gear oils are NOT
>> created equal!
>> In this case, the first thing to do is RTFM.
>> The manual specifically calls for SAE 80, AP GL5
>> (SAE 90 in Europe).
>> 7 1/2 pints of the stuff.
>> While it is very easy to find SAE 80-90 gear oil, it is surprisingly
>> difficult to find *GL5* gear oil, and that's the important part. GL5
>> oil has specific characteristics designed to work with the types of
>> synchros that our gearboxes have, which are different from most other
>> gearboxes, and definitely different from a typical differential/rear
>> axle.
>> If you go to most auto parts stores, there will be lots of gear oil on
>> the shelf but none of it will be GL5. The only place I have reliably
>> found GL5 is NAPA auto parts; it is made by Sta-Lube/CRC.
>> Here is the exact link to what you should buy:
>> [3]http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL2473
>> It is normally sold in pints or gallons; since you need 7.5 pints and
>> there are 8 pints in a gallon, obviously it is to your advantage to buy
>> a gallon jug. My local NAPA store used to carry them, but I just had
>> to order a jug a couple of weeks ago as they only have pints now.
>> While you're at it, you might as well buy a gear oil pump, also by
>> Sta-Lube:
>> [4]http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL4344
>> Harbor Freight has a better picture of it:
>> [5]http://www.harborfreight.com/sta-lube-gear-fluid-oil-pump-40714.html
>> Using this pump has transformed my life. Normally filling a ZF gearbox
>> is a painful experience involving a lot of spilled gear oil and
>> profanity. This turns it into a breeze. Just put the end of the hose
>> in the side of the gearbox (where it's cleverly retained), and start
>> pumping until you feel silly. When oil starts drooling out the side,
>> you're done. Let it sit for a few minutes, give a few more pumps just
>> to be sure, then you're really done.
>> Mike (going to change my gearbox oil tomorrow as a matter of fact....)
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> [6]DeTomaso at poca.com
>> [7]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [8]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [9]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
> 2. mailto:cwhamm at frontier.com
> 3. http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL2473
> 4. http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL4344
> 5. http://www.harborfreight.com/sta-lube-gear-fluid-oil-pump-40714.html
> 6. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 7. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 8. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 9. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
> !DSPAM:5348d9dc3863307228636!
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
> !DSPAM:5348d9dc3863307228636!
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--
Real life: Thomas Törnblom Email: thomas at hax.se
Snail mail: Banvallsvägen 14 Phone: +46 18 32 31 18
S - 754 40 Uppsala, Sweden Cellular: +46 76 209 8320
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-------------- next part --------------
Thomas,
"And there is no "yellow metal" in our ZF:s, right?"
I think that is not correct. "Yellow metal" refers to brass, which is
what synchros are made of or at least what they were made of back in
the day.
I read somewhere that GL5 oils coat the metal better than GL4s, but the
problem is that the coating is so adherent that when it comes off it
can tear off a few molecules of the metal. Over time this can result in
gear wear.
My Abarth guru recommends Red Line MT-90 for my Fiat transaxle. It is
a 75W90 GL4 oil that is recommended for gearboxes and FRONT-WHEEL DRIVE
transaxles but not rear wheel drive diffs.
Unfortunately I don't know enough about transaxles to know why GL4 oil
is best for a Fiat transaxle but wouldn't be good for a ZF or Ferrari
unit. Or maybe it would be??
Jim Oddie
-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Tornblom <thomas at hax.se>
To: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Fri, Apr 11, 2014 11:44 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] ZF gear oil
Pantdino skrev 2014-04-12 08:14:
> I think Mike misspoke / miswrote
>
>
>
> Most gear oil is GL5 and it is GL4 that is hard to find
>
>
>
> But the best oil for the ZF is Red Line 75W90NS--- the NS signifying
> "not so slippery" I presume.
>
> ANY oil that says it is OK to use in a limited slip diff will be TOO
> slippery for proper synchro function and will predispose to early
> synchro wear.
>
>
>
> GL4 oil is better for "yellow metal" gears but this is a fairly minor
> consideration in comparison to better lubrication for the diff portion
> of the ZF provided by the GL5 Red Line 75W90NS
And there is no "yellow metal" in our ZF:s, right? So GL5 would be
appropriate, just as the owners manual says.
That said, I have always used Shell GetriebeAP:l, which is a fully
synthetic GL4, but will now switch to some GL5. Might even try this RL
oil. :)
Thomas
>
>
>
> At least this was the conclusion reached by the ferrarichat group for
> use in "brand F" transaxles.
>
>
>
> Jim Oddie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Corey Price <[1]coreyjprice at gmail.com>
> To: MikeLDrew <[2]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> Cc: De Tomaso List <[3]detomaso at poca.com>
> Sent: Fri, Apr 11, 2014 9:03 pm
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] ZF gear oil
> Mike,
>
> I thought GL-4 was the recommended oil, per Lloyd's website "FAQ" section.
Did
> I miss something?
>
> Corey
>
>
>
>> On Apr 11, 2014, at 9:41 PM, [1][4]MikeLDrew at aol.com wrote:
>>
>> In a message dated 4/11/14 12 32 13, [2][5]cwhamm at frontier.com writes:
>>
>> Also what is the best gear oil for
>> my ZF transaxle?
>>
>>>>> This is a very important question. I think there is a tendancy
>> among many people to just grab any old gear oil and throw it in there,
>> but the nature of a transaxle demands that one pays very close
>> attention to the manufacturer's recommendations. All gear oils are NOT
>> created equal!
>> In this case, the first thing to do is RTFM.
>> The manual specifically calls for SAE 80, AP GL5
>> (SAE 90 in Europe).
>> 7 1/2 pints of the stuff.
>> While it is very easy to find SAE 80-90 gear oil, it is surprisingly
>> difficult to find *GL5* gear oil, and that's the important part. GL5
>> oil has specific characteristics designed to work with the types of
>> synchros that our gearboxes have, which are different from most other
>> gearboxes, and definitely different from a typical differential/rear
>> axle.
>> If you go to most auto parts stores, there will be lots of gear oil on
>> the shelf but none of it will be GL5. The only place I have reliably
>> found GL5 is NAPA auto parts; it is made by Sta-Lube/CRC.
>> Here is the exact link to what you should buy:
>> [3][6]http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL2473
>> It is normally sold in pints or gallons; since you need 7.5 pints and
>> there are 8 pints in a gallon, obviously it is to your advantage to buy
>> a gallon jug. My local NAPA store used to carry them, but I just had
>> to order a jug a couple of weeks ago as they only have pints now.
>> While you're at it, you might as well buy a gear oil pump, also by
>> Sta-Lube:
>> [4][7]http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL4344
>> Harbor Freight has a better picture of it:
>> [5][8]http://www.harborfreight.com/sta-lube-gear-fluid-oil-pump-40714.html
>> Using this pump has transformed my life. Normally filling a ZF gearbox
>> is a painful experience involving a lot of spilled gear oil and
>> profanity. This turns it into a breeze. Just put the end of the hose
>> in the side of the gearbox (where it's cleverly retained), and start
>> pumping until you feel silly. When oil starts drooling out the side,
>> you're done. Let it sit for a few minutes, give a few more pumps just
>> to be sure, then you're really done.
>> Mike (going to change my gearbox oil tomorrow as a matter of fact....)
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> [6][9]DeTomaso at poca.com
>> [7][10]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [8][11]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [9][12]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> References
>
> 1. [13]mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
> 2. [14]mailto:cwhamm at frontier.com
> 3. [15]http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL2473
> 4. [16]http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL4344
> 5. [17]http://www.harborfreight.com/sta-lube-gear-fluid-oil-pump-40714.htm
l
> 6. [18]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 7. [19]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 8. [20]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 9. [21]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
> !DSPAM:5348d9dc3863307228636!
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [22]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [23]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
> !DSPAM:5348d9dc3863307228636!
>
--
Real life: Thomas TAP:rnblom Email: [24]thomas at hax.se
Snail mail: BanvallsvACURgen 14 Phone: +46 18 32 31 18
S - 754 40 Uppsala, Sweden Cellular: +46 76 209 8320
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
DeTomaso mailing list
[25]DeTomaso at poca.com
[26]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
References
1. mailto:coreyjprice at gmail.com
2. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
3. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
4. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
5. mailto:cwhamm at frontier.com
6. http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL2473
7. http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL4344
8. http://www.harborfreight.com/sta-lube-gear-fluid-oil-pump-40714.html
9. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
10. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
11. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
12. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
13. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com?
14. mailto:cwhamm at frontier.com?
15. http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL2473
16. http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL4344
17. http://www.harborfreight.com/sta-lube-gear-fluid-oil-pump-40714.html
18. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com?
19. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
20. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com?
21. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
22. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
23. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
24. mailto:thomas at hax.se
25. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
26. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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