[DeTomaso] starter electrical system problem

[Pantdino]

My perception is this:

When engine was shut down one piston had finished its intake stroke and was sitting at the bottom with a cylinder full of gas vapor above it.
When you crank the engine the piston moves up.  Plugs fire at BTDC, no?  So the plug fires before the piston is at TDC and the force of the explosion stops the piston and crankshaft at that point and the engine stops turning for a second until the starter moves the crank again.  I'm pretty sure this is what has been happening, because with the ignition switched off the starter spins the engine fine.  

-----Original Message-----
From: MikeLDrew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
To: pantdino <pantdino at aol.com>; detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Sat, Sep 21, 2013 2:03 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] starter electrical system problem



In a message dated 9/21/13 12 15 14, pantdino at aol.com writes:



When the key is turned to starter position a noise like a mechanical bee is heard from the passenger side firewall area and the starter motor does not engage.


>>>That is the starter turning over, but the Bendix drive not engaging.   The gear that shoots out from the starter and engages the flywheel, is instead just spinning in free space.


>History is that I have used an ignition cutout switch to start the car when it is hot for years--  I get the engine spinning then flip the ignition switch.  If I try to start the car normally when hot the starter is not powerful enough to drive the engine past the first piston firing and it stops dead and I have to try again.


>>>Cutting off the spark should have no impact, I wouldn't think?   That is, your ignition cutout switch isn't doing anything to help or hurt the starter.   The starter will either turn the engine over, or it won't.   It doesn't care if spark is being introduced or not.

Some engines (lawnmowers, dirt bikes etc.) have a compression release lever, which holds an exhaust valve open so that the piston doesn't have to compress anything.   That's how you start my dirt bike--hold the compression release and kick a few times to introduce mixture into the cylinder, then release, kick one more time, and (hopefully) VAROOM.

But your ignition cutout isn't doing anything remotely like that.   So I think you've been fooling yourself about its effect.


>My experience is that a clicking but non-closing starter relay is a sign of a weak battery, but this battery should be fine and the noise is different.


>>>Your starter has just died, that's all.   It happens....

I would hie thee over to DB Electrical and get a new, lightweight starter with integral solenoid, ask for their optional (free) wiring kit to adapt it to your electrical system, and know that you will need to buy new, longer studs to mount it, which are readily available at any good Ace hardware store.   While you're at it,   you can get flange nuts that require a 15mm socket instead of the normal 17mm, which makes installation much easier.

Good luck!

Mike