[DeTomaso] starter electrical system problem

[Doug Scott]

If an engine has too much timing at idle, it will do what you described.  If
you listen real close as well, you may even hear it ping during that near
stopped cranking.  Nothing to do with fuel in cylinder when engine shut
off(just about every non-FI engine will do that every time it gets shut
off).  The easy way to see if the reason for slow cranking is to pull coil
wire and see if it still behaves that way.  I would not be surprised to see
a high compression engine do that on low octane fuel and a hot engine..  

Doug

-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at poca.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf
Of Pantdino
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 5:22 PM
To: MikeLDrew at aol.com; detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] starter electrical system problem


My perception is this:

When engine was shut down one piston had finished its intake stroke and was
sitting at the bottom with a cylinder full of gas vapor above it.
When you crank the engine the piston moves up.  Plugs fire at BTDC, no?  So
the plug fires before the piston is at TDC and the force of the explosion
stops the piston and crankshaft at that point and the engine stops turning
for a second until the starter moves the crank again.  I'm pretty sure this
is what has been happening, because with the ignition switched off the
starter spins the engine fine.  

-----Original Message-----
From: MikeLDrew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
To: pantdino <pantdino at aol.com>; detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Sat, Sep 21, 2013 2:03 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] starter electrical system problem



In a message dated 9/21/13 12 15 14, pantdino at aol.com writes:



When the key is turned to starter position a noise like a mechanical bee is
heard from the passenger side firewall area and the starter motor does not
engage.


>>>That is the starter turning over, but the Bendix drive not engaging.
The gear that shoots out from the starter and engages the flywheel, is
instead just spinning in free space.


>History is that I have used an ignition cutout switch to start the car when
it is hot for years--  I get the engine spinning then flip the ignition
switch.  If I try to start the car normally when hot the starter is not
powerful enough to drive the engine past the first piston firing and it
stops dead and I have to try again.


>>>Cutting off the spark should have no impact, I wouldn't think?   That is,
your ignition cutout switch isn't doing anything to help or hurt the
starter.   The starter will either turn the engine over, or it won't.   It
doesn't care if spark is being introduced or not.

Some engines (lawnmowers, dirt bikes etc.) have a compression release lever,
which holds an exhaust valve open so that the piston doesn't have to
compress anything.   That's how you start my dirt bike--hold the compression
release and kick a few times to introduce mixture into the cylinder, then
release, kick one more time, and (hopefully) VAROOM.

But your ignition cutout isn't doing anything remotely like that.   So I
think you've been fooling yourself about its effect.


>My experience is that a clicking but non-closing starter relay is a sign of
a weak battery, but this battery should be fine and the noise is different.


>>>Your starter has just died, that's all.   It happens....

I would hie thee over to DB Electrical and get a new, lightweight starter
with integral solenoid, ask for their optional (free) wiring kit to adapt it
to your electrical system, and know that you will need to buy new, longer
studs to mount it, which are readily available at any good Ace hardware
store.   While you're at it,   you can get flange nuts that require a 15mm
socket instead of the normal 17mm, which makes installation much easier.

Good luck!

Mike

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