[DeTomaso] Weber carbs

Sat Jul 27 12:37:19 EDT 2013

I have IDA Webers on my car.

They tamed down the idle - a lot.  It lost the V-8 lope, plus it is
generally quieter.

Low RPM, it felt like I gained 50HP.

I lost 3-4mpg.  I haven't tuned it, so maybe I'll get some of that back.

I didn't change the cam.  A cam change is planned - someday - maybe.

I cut the deck lid.  That's the hardest emotional part - aside from losing
the V-8 thump.

I made filters using a program on e-machine shop.  I think Hall has them
in stock.  Key word - "think".

Individual K/N filters do not fit.  Not properly anyway.  You'd have to
dent them pretty bad.

The hardest part of the install is the linkage.  If I were doing it again,
I'd buy from Jim Inglese.  He is very nice, and he knows his stuff.

IDF's probably make more sense on the street.

--
Will

On 7/27/13 12:39 AM, "Julian Kift" <julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:

>Boyd,
>There are a lot of perpetuated myths around Webers, but they are not the
>beast they are often portrayed to be as long as you don't forget to
>consider the package as a whole. The problem is many people get a generic
>set of Webers, pull off their 4 barrel Holley and bolt them on expecting
>them to run out of the box. What they also often fail to recognize is
>that Webers (or more correctly independent runners) require a specific
>camshaft lobe separation to run well. Jim Inglese (different than Inglese
>Induction which he sold to Comp Cams) given your engine specs will build
>you a bolt on set of Webers that he guarantees to run out of the box
>(notwithstanding the aforementioned correct cam choice).
>When discussing Webers you are better to ask the question as to cost and
>complexity of tuning of Webers vs. an EFI conversion and I think you'll
>get a better comparative, both will require some dyno time to get
>everything dialed in and EFI is typically a significantly higher $$
>investment.
>The Hall manifold is an IDA, to which you can add IDF adapters, but this
>raises everything further in height. However an IDF manifold is available
>from Aussie-Speed (a reproduction of an old Cain manifold). The IDF's are
>more streetable than IDA's (which are essentially a race carb) and with
>the Aussie-Speed manifold you can run a set of IDF's with filters and it
>will all fit under the stock decklid and engine screen... no cutting.
>I happen to have a spare Aussie-Speed manifold here as I was organizing a
>group buy (of which I was the only one that followed through, so I bought
>multiple manifolds to keep the price down).
>Julian
>
>> From: JDeRyke at aol.com
>> Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2013 19:37:43 -0400
>> To: boyd411 at gmail.com; detomaso at poca.com
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Weber carbs
>> 
>> In a message dated 7/26/13 2:39:04 PM, boyd411 at gmail.com writes:
>> 
>> > I have a question for anyone who has run webers on their cleveland
>> > engine.
>> > Has anyone run IDA'S or IDF's and does anyone know iIf Hall Panteras
>>weber
>> > manifold is suitable for IDF's or IDA 's . Can anyone share their
>>opinions
>> > about the ups and downs of running webers and any recommendations.
>> > 
>> 
>> Pull up a chair, Boyd- I think Halls intakes are for IDAs. What's often
>> used are 48 IDA (downdraft), and occasionally, 48 DCOE (side-draft). If
>>you 
>> could find them, 51 or 52 IDAs or DCOEs would be better. Wilkinson
>>included 
>> dual 51 DCOEs on his Magnecharger blower systems in the '80s.
>> All Webers are old carbs, as Weber of Italy stopped producing them in
>>the 
>> late '80s; they switched to EFI systems. A Weber subsidiary in Spain
>>still 
>> makes a few genuine carbs, I think. There are many counterfeit carbs
>> available- mostly from the far east, which look very much the same as
>>original but 
>> are sometimes porous & leak fuel. Jet threads in the castings are also
>>iffy & 
>> strip, and real Weber tuning parts may not fit right.
>> A point of advice: before spending money: find a local Weber expert to
>>tune 
>> your system and talk to him FIRST. What happens even with perfect NOS
>> Webers bolted on (ca $500 each plus intake manifold & air cleaners and
>>$250-up 
>> for linkage) is, either the combination gives about the same power and
>>milea
>> ge as a single Holley, or it gives more power and 8 mpg. There are 5
>>jets and 
>> two air bleeds plus a venturi, an aux. venturi and an emulsion tube for
>> each cylinder, all of which are tuneable. The cheapest Weber part is
>>about $6, 
>> which means DIY-ers usually have a drawerful of used-once jets & other
>>parts 
>> by the time they get their engine running correctly.
>> A second point; brand new never-run NOS Webers have been sitting on
>>shelves 
>> for maybe 40 years, so all the gaskets, o-rings and the ball bearings &
>> seals in the throttles are dry and shrunk. They will often leak unless
>>rebuilt. 
>> Rebuild kits are available but pricy, and there are many opportunities
>>to 
>> do it wrong. Buy a Weber Manual; Haynes has a decent one.
>> Air cleaners: chromed-brass ram tubes are often not included and are
>>around 
>> $25 each (need 8). Plastic ones are around, too. They fit inside the
>>four 
>> air cleaners, but avoid foam cleaners of any kind. Webers use
>> individual-runner intakes which have powerful ram-pulsations. They are
>>stupid, too: carbs
>> meter fuel into incoming AND outgoing air pulses. This generates a
>>cloud of 
>> fuel-air above the ram tubes at some rpms. Foam cleaners will soak up
>>the 
>> extra fuel. Webers use no chokes- they have 'enrichment mechanisms'- so
>>they 
>> are subject to backfires when cold or if running a bit lean. A small
>>backfire 
>> will ignite the fuel-soaked air cleaners. ALWAYS carry a minimum of a
>>5-lb 
>> fire extinguisher when running Webers. Freon extinguishers are less
>>messy to 
>> clean up than powder types. I've had two Weber fires (one destroyed an
>> engine) and they are scary.
>> Once you get them sorted, Weber carbs are wonderful, showy devices but
>>the 
>> sorting is painful. I spent 6 months- an hour or so every day- getting
>>a set 
>> running adequately, and that's not unusual. A friend spent nearly a
>>year 
>> sorting his set, including drilling out all the lead balls that seal
>>the many 
>> drillings in the castings, to clean each one by hand with solvent and
>>pipe 
>> cleaners. Good luck- J Deryke
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> 
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 		 	   		  
>_______________________________________________
>
>Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
>DeTomaso mailing list
>DeTomaso at poca.com
>http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso