[DeTomaso] DB electric starter bites the dust

Mon Jul 22 16:58:43 EDT 2013

Julian,
That's a good policy. It doesn't surprise me that China is loaded with
counterfeit goods but I can't understand why the authorities( as well as
e-bay) don't play a bigger part in stopping the sale of counterfeit goods.
Most people think of bogus sneakers of handbags but the reality is that
counterfeit goods run the gamut from Pharmaceuticals (including cancer
drugs ) air bags and countless other items that are literally life or death
items. Every time someone knowing purchases some "harmless item (like a
fake Rolex or a phony Louis Vitton luggage or purse you strengthen the
counterfeiters and undermine the enforcement efforts and are in fact
committing a crime. When you become aware of a vendor selling counterfeit
goods you have amoral obligation to report them to the authorities.
Boyd

On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 4:30 PM, Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>wrote:

> Last year I was looking at purchasing a Sparco seat and my search came up
> with one vendor near Oakland CA selling at pricing that was just out of
> whack with anything else I could find from other Sparco distributors for
> that particuar seat. I contacted Sparco and asked if this was a genuine
> seat with exceptionally good pricing or possibly a counterfeit. It turned
> out it was a conuterfeit, right down to the FIA compliance labels, date of
> manufacture etc. which is pretty scary when you consider this is a life
> critical safety item. As in this case the counterfeiters have products that
> appear aesthetically correct and there are always venues like Ebay &
> Craigslist to sell on, that is why I'll only source such critical items
> direct from reputable vendors or manufacturer endorsed resellers.
>
> Julian
>  ------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 14:11:54 -0400
>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DB electric starter bites the dust
> From: boyd411 at gmail.com
> To: bd8134 at gmail.com
> CC: julian_kift at hotmail.com; detomaso at poca.com; jderyke at aol.com
>
>
> I mentioned somewhere in an earlier part of the post that I would no
> longer be purchasing any Chinese parts for my Pantera (or any of my other
> property) .  Unless there is no other choice.  I feel I am paying the price
> for failing to support the US economy and attempting to save a few bucks by
> purchasing Chinese goods. If enough of us followed the same philosophy we
> wouldn't have to worry about US made parts not being available. We also
> have to report counterfeit  goods everywhere and anywhere we find them. The
> Chinese have no respect for international law like Patents . trade marks
> etc.
> Boyd
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 1:56 PM, Brian Dudley <bd8134 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Or you could avoid the Chinese stuff for not much more.
> http://www.robbmcperformance.com/products/starter_home.html#comparison
> Their customer service was good for me.
> They bought out a starter that was smaller and more powerful than the one
> I had bought from them.
> I returned mine and just paid the difference.
>
>
>  On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Boyd Casey <boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> For those who missed my earlier correction the company I am currently
> researching per Ken Green's reccomendation is
>
> " IMI Performance products Inc. Hi Torque ™" I had  mistakenly referred to
> it as* IMF*
>
>
> Be forewarned that there are numerous vendors on Ebay and else where that
> are offering for sale products listed as IMI Performance Products "Hi
> Torque™" that are bootleg , counterfeit, fake or what ever you care to call
> them . But they are not the real deal!
> If it looks to good to be true ....IT IS!
>
> Boyd
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 1:19 PM, Boyd Casey <boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Julian,
> > I am forwarding an e-mail that another member sent me off list. Read
> about
> > his experience with D&B Electric starters and I think more importantly
> his
> > experience with their customer service and their advice to him.
> > Boyd
> >
> >
> >  Jerry Knotts
> >  9:45 PM (15 hours ago)
> >     to detomaso
>
> >  Boyd,
> >
> > I had a problem with one of their starters hanging up and ruining a
> > battery.  They sent another starter and I had it installed.  It lasted
> > less than a week.  I called and ask if they had found the problem with
> > the first starter and they explained it wasn't worth the trouble and
> > they just throw the defective starters away.  I called again and
> > explained that I was displeased with their products and wanted them to
> > pay for a starter R&R after I had purchased a rebuilt at AutoZone.  They
> > said no.  I said I was displeased with their customer service and they
> > said I should shop elsewhere.  They did refund the original price of the
> > starter after I returned the defective one.
> >
> > You would think at my age I would understand you rarely get what you pay
> > for and almost never get more.
> > jerry
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 12:38 PM, Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com
> >wrote:
> >
> >> This is a PMGR starter, one of the benefits over a standard starter
> being
> >> the gear reduction (usually in the order of 4.5:1) reducing current
> draw.
> >>
> >> I'm skeptical that a previously endorsed product (now seemingly quite
> >> widely used in Pantera's) is suddenly so bad, unless DB is sourcing from
> >> a different supplier. You have now eaten 3 starters, so what else has
> >> changed to cause the first (4 years is not a long or acceptable service
> >> life) and subsequent replacements to go out? Yes a higher quality,
> higher
> >> dollar starter may overcome your problem, but will you actually tackle
> the
> >> route cause of the problem? If you don't get to the route cause then any
> >> solution is only temporary.
> >>
> >> Have you checked simple stuff like voltage at the starter, ground
> >> continuity etc.?
> >>
> >> Julian
> >>
> >> > From: JDeRyke at aol.com
> >> > Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 03:13:09 -0400
> >> > To: boyd411 at gmail.com; detomaso at poca.com
> >>
> >> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DB electric starter bites the dust
> >> >
> >> > In a message dated 7/21/13 5:25:42 PM, boyd411 at gmail.com writes:
> >> >
> >> > > Does anyone know of a problem that can be wiping out solenoids
> >> > >
> >> > A solenoid is a simple electromechanical device. Not much can go wrong
> >> with
> >> > it, with so few parts. As I mentioned a few weeks ago, some foreign
> >> made
> >> > solenoids have the main contacts in back insulated with a
> thermoplastic
> >> block.
> >> > Your high compression engine may pull 300 AMPS of current momentarily,
> >> > which creates a LOT of heat. Eventually, the thermoplastic softens
> >> enough for
> >> > the contacts to sink into them, so they no longer make contact
> >> > OEM starters use a thermoset material to insulate & mount solenoid
> >> > contacts. Thermosets do not melt in high heat- they char. I've 'fixed'
> >> a couple of
> >> > cheap foreign starters by using salvaged solenoid contact plates in
> >> > nearly-new solenoid bodies. Pull the solenoid apart and see if there's
> >> any evidence
> >> > the contacts have sunk into the plastic insulator so they no longer
> >> touch.
> >> > Buying another of what already failed, and expecting it to behave
> >> differently
> >> > is one definition of insanity. Good luck- J Deryke
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> >
> >
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